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Topic:  RE: Indoor practice facility

Topic:  RE: Indoor practice facility
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 8:45:16 AM 

I love the IPF.  We needed one for a long time.  But, the need for student fees to cover the cost is a huge failure by athletics and our fan base.  We can't raise $12-$15 million to build, maintain, and staff an IPF?  Even after a massive bailout by one donor?  Total bummer.

Anyway, love reading that recruits paid attention and dig it.



Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 10:07:06 AM 
An even more egregious fail is the FB locker room project - we've been trying to raise 500k for THREE YEARS and still have only 150k.  As much as we like to brag about the progress we've made in recent years, we still have an alumni base that is almost completely disengaged from Ohio Athletics.  Sad but true…and probably won't change.

 
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 10:59:25 AM 
SBH wrote:
An even more egregious fail is the FB locker room project - we've been trying to raise 500k for THREE YEARS and still have only 150k.  As much as we like to brag about the progress we've made in recent years, we still have an alumni base that is almost completely disengaged from Ohio Athletics.  Sad but true…and probably won't change.

 


I'm not sure disengaged is the right word.  Unwilling to donate or not seeing a value in donating might be more accurate.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 1:16:07 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
I love the IPF.  We needed one for a long time.  But, the need for student fees to cover the cost is a huge failure by athletics and our fan base. ...

It could be inappropriate, or it could be fine. In the end it kind of depends on who ends up using it. If it is used solely by football and baseball, then student fees shouldn't pay for maintenance of it. If it is used a lot for things like intermural sports, then it isn't unreasonable for student fees to pay part of the expenses.

One solution to the whole problem discussed here would be to eliminate all university funding for sports, and make the sports all pay for themselves, either through ticket sales, or direct contributions. Football, basketball, and volleyball all are revenue sports, and thus would continue to exist, though perhaps with somewhat lesser facilities, and all the non-revenue sports would vanish.The odd thing is that I suspect that's exactly the opposite of what some would want to accomplish. I sense that some don't object at all to the non-revenue sports, like wrestling, swimming, track, field hockey, etc, but do object to football. When they see student fees going to athletics, they presume it is for football, but fail to consider just how much the non-revenue sports cost to operate, and consider that all expenses must come from other sources (i.e. fees, university contributions).


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 1:33:05 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Ohio69 wrote:
I love the IPF.  We needed one for a long time.  But, the need for student fees to cover the cost is a huge failure by athletics and our fan base. ...

It could be inappropriate, or it could be fine. In the end it kind of depends on who ends up using it. If it is used solely by football and baseball, then student fees shouldn't pay for maintenance of it. If it is used a lot for things like intermural sports, then it isn't unreasonable for student fees to pay part of the expenses.

One solution to the whole problem discussed here would be to eliminate all university funding for sports, and make the sports all pay for themselves, either through ticket sales, or direct contributions. Football, basketball, and volleyball all are revenue sports, and thus would continue to exist, though perhaps with somewhat lesser facilities, and all the non-revenue sports would vanish.The odd thing is that I suspect that's exactly the opposite of what some would want to accomplish. I sense that some don't object at all to the non-revenue sports, like wrestling, swimming, track, field hockey, etc, but do object to football. When they see student fees going to athletics, they presume it is for football, but fail to consider just how much the non-revenue sports cost to operate, and consider that all expenses must come from other sources (i.e. fees, university contributions).


Without massive student subsidies, no sports would exist at OU at the D 1 level.  We don't generate enough money through ticket sales or voluntary contributions.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 1:46:42 PM 
I think it depends on how you account for them. I believe that all of the losses blamed on Football are caused by the Title IX requirement that football subsidize an equal number of women's athletes. If those that hate football win in the end, I think they will be surprised to see that without football, all the women's sports will vanish, or alternately that minor sports will continue to exist, but student fees devoted to sports will increase, not decrease, as an equal number of men's non-revenue sports are added to remain equal to the number of women athletes.

It would be interesting to find some schools with no varsity football program, and see how much in the way of University contributions goes to sports, and how much in the way of student fees.

Last Edited: 2/11/2014 1:54:53 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 2:04:43 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I think it depends on how you account for them. I believe that all of the losses blamed on Football are caused by the Title IX requirement that football subsidize an equal number of women's athletes. If those that hate football win in the end, I think they will be surprised to see that without football, all the women's sports will vanish, or alternately that minor sports will continue to exist, but student fees devoted to sports will increase, not decrease, as an equal number of men's non-revenue sports are added to remain equal to the number of women athletes.

It would be interesting to find some schools with no varsity football program, and see how much in the way of University contributions goes to sports, and how much in the way of student fees.



Personally I'm tired of the title ix argument.  We shouldn't even have or need a title ix.  We should simply do what's right and that's provide equal opportunity for both sexes.  Also try telling someone who swims or runs track that they play a minor sport.  
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 4:46:20 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Personally I'm tired of the title ix argument.  We shouldn't even have or need a title ix.  We should simply do what's right and that's provide equal opportunity for both sexes.  Also try telling someone who swims or runs track that they play a minor sport.  

I  have to admit that I've never seen anything rational or fair about Title IX, which requires money from revenue-producing sports to be diverted to support sports of the opposite gender. In a situation such as Ohio, the result is that nearly all of the universities contributions to athletics have to go to women's sports, and meanwhile men's sports like swimming and track have to be discontinued.  In the end the question becomes, is it more fair to divert the money produced by football to pay for women's sports, or to use it to benefit the players themselves, the ones who put themselves at risk of injury? Given the unionization efforts, I would say that the players themselves don't see the current situation as fair at all.

I see a lot of developments coming to a head. First you have the unionization. Next you have the anti-fee arguments. Finally you have the head-injury liability issues. I tend to think that the result of all these will be that over the next decade or so, somehow football spun off and officially separated from Universities. This will permit the revenue produced by football to flow directly back to the team and players, who will actually be employees, and will get more and different benefits.

If that happens, I would guess that fees to support athletics will probably rise modestly, and there will be a shift in the sports played, with a resurgence of men's sports like swimming, track, and wrestling, since the men's football will no longer count towards Title IX.

I personally have no strong feelings about what "should" happen. I just watch with amusement because I suspect that those trying hardest to change things will end up succeeding, and finding that the result that they achieve is not what they hoped for at all, and has side effects they didn't expect.

By the way, Alan, mostly I was a swimmer. Yes, it's a minor sport. We generated no revenue, and all the money spent on our sport came from other sources. No swimmer would deny that. I also have participated in club sports, by the way, where we got no money, and had to constantly be engaged in fund raising to pay for our travel expenses. Maybe that's how all sports should be run. It certainly was "fair", and no one would dispute that.

Last Edited: 2/11/2014 4:49:55 PM by L.C.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/11/2014 7:57:56 PM 
Revenue generation is an interesting concept. Back when men's swimming was cut it was a profit generator for the university in that there were a group men mostly paying full tuition to attend Ohio and swim and dive. If swimming didn't exist, they would have enrolled elsewhere. Some were paying out of state tuition. So lots of money flowing in to university coffers. Far more than the cost of the program. Yet somehow Coach Werner's program got no credit for this. Also these men routinely had higher ACT scores and higher GPA and higher graduation rates than the general student body. But it got "Hocutt" nonetheless....


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 6:26:27 AM 
LC, Football may be a revenue generating spot, but it is a money losing sport! Heck every Sport is a revenue sport when you charge admission. The question then is are they profitable.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 8:10:45 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Personally I'm tired of the title ix argument.  We shouldn't even have or need a title ix.  We should simply do what's right and that's provide equal opportunity for both sexes.  Also try telling someone who swims or runs track that they play a minor sport.  


I  have to admit that I've never seen anything rational or fair about Title IX, which requires money from revenue-producing sports to be diverted to support sports of the opposite gender. In a situation such as Ohio, the result is that nearly all of the universities contributions to athletics have to go to women's sports, and meanwhile men's sports like swimming and track have to be discontinued.  In the end the question becomes, is it more fair to divert the money produced by football to pay for women's sports, or to use it to benefit the players themselves, the ones who put themselves at risk of injury? Given the unionization efforts, I would say that the players themselves don't see the current situation as fair at all.



This is simply not true. Title IX does not require money from revenue-generating sports to pay non-revenue generating sports. In accounting, the bottom line may look like that at Ohio, because there is such a disparity between the two, but that's not why Title IX exists nor what it does. Further, Ohio doesn't cut sports on the men's side because they can't afford it. It's because the scholarships are so high on the men's side (because of football) that the women almost automatically have to have more sports to make up the difference. This is why you see Ohio have 5-6 men's sports and 8-9 women's sports. The participation requirements for a Division I athletic institution for Title IX are as follows:

-Provide participation opportunities for women and men that are substantially proporitonate to their respective rates of enrollment of full-time undergraduate students. (If you have X amount of students, you should have Y and Z amount of athletic opportunities for men and women. So if you have a school with a 3-1 women-to-men ratio, you're almost automatically creating more women's teams. I'm not sure what the ratio is at Ohio but I imagine more gals attend than guys.)

-Demonstrate a history and continuing practice of program expansion towards the underrepresented sex; OR

-Fully and effectively accomodate the interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex.

The scholarship requirements for a Division I athletic institution are as follows:

Title IX requires that male and female student athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation. (Similar to the above participation rule, if 60% of your athletes are male, then 60% of scholarship dollars should go to them.)

There is also a provision stating that Title IX requires the equal treatment of male and female athletes with regards to facilities, recruiting, transportation, etc. 

http://equity.missouri.edu/resource-library/athletics.php 

Last Edited: 2/12/2014 8:12:58 AM by GoCats105

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 10:45:36 AM 
Football is not and very likely never will be a profit making venture at Ohio. I would like to see football generate much more money than it does so that it would be able to be self funding, but other than Boone Pickens switching to supporting Ohio likes he does another OSU, it looks hopeless. Failure to finish off the financing needs of the IPF was the clincher for me.

As for all the Title IX stuff, women's sports should be supported just like the men's programs . None of either men or women's sports make a profit, and all the partial shollies in other sports bring a fair number of good students to Ohio. Check out the GPA's of some if those teams. Proud to have them.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 10:54:18 AM 
That all sounds good on its face, but the question is, what does it actually do? Let's take a hypothetical situation to show my understanding of how it works, and if I have it wrong, please correct me:

Suppose a university has one and only one sport. That sport has 100 male participants, and takes in revenue of $10m a year, and has expenses of $10m a year. The university is in effect spending nothing on sports at all. Now, along comes Title IX, and the university is forced to make changes. Despite the the fact that the sport is producing the money it is spending, and the university is actually contributing nothing to it, the university is deemed to be spending $10m on athletics. Therefore they have 2 choices (plus some in between the two extremes):
1. They can continue to spend nothing on sports, and take $5m of the money that the existing sport generates, and use it to pay for women's sports.
2. They can increase the budget to $20m, and leave the sport alone, but begin to spend $10m a year on women's sports.

Now let's look at another hypothetical. Suppose you start in situation 2 above. There is a $20m budget, and one men's sport with 100 participants that takes in $10m and spends $10, and some combination of women's sports that takes in no revenue, has 100 participants, and spends $10m. Now suppose the men's sport is spun off as an independent self-supporting entity. At this point the university budget looks very different. Now there is a $10m budget, all of which is spent on women's sports. At this point Title IX would require an increase in male sports or a decrease in women's sports, wouldn't it?


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 11:48:58 AM 
L.C. wrote:
That all sounds good on its face, but the question is, what does it actually do? Let's take a hypothetical situation to show my understanding of how it works, and if I have it wrong, please correct me:

Suppose a university has one and only one sport. That sport has 100 male participants, and takes in revenue of $10m a year, and has expenses of $10m a year. The university is in effect spending nothing on sports at all. Now, along comes Title IX, and the university is forced to make changes. Despite the the fact that the sport is producing the money it is spending, and the university is actually contributing nothing to it, the university is deemed to be spending $10m on athletics. Therefore they have 2 choices (plus some in between the two extremes):
1. They can continue to spend nothing on sports, and take $5m of the money that the existing sport generates, and use it to pay for women's sports.
2. They can increase the budget to $20m, and leave the sport alone, but begin to spend $10m a year on women's sports.

Now let's look at another hypothetical. Suppose you start in situation 2 above. There is a $20m budget, and one men's sport with 100 participants that takes in $10m and spends $10, and some combination of women's sports that takes in no revenue, has 100 participants, and spends $10m. Now suppose the men's sport is spun off as an independent self-supporting entity. At this point the university budget looks very different. Now there is a $10m budget, all of which is spent on women's sports. At this point Title IX would require an increase in male sports or a decrease in women's sports, wouldn't it?



In your first scenario, the school would never start out with only one sport unless it was an all male school. As long as there are women on campus, there is a women's athletic team of some kind. I remember a story from my NCAA Rules and Compliance professor (who happened to be the Director of Compliance at UC) about women's athletic coaches just going around to random students asking them if they wanted to be on a crew team, rugby team, field hockey team, etc. This was obviously at a larger school.

Once again, you're focusing on the accounting of the situation. It really comes down to how the athletic department chooses to spend it. I think it's pretty obvious that more money is both generated and used on men's athletic programs, but not at the expense of Title IX and the rules I posted above. It simply provides the same amount of opportunities for women and men, regardless of money spent. If you think about it, how can a women's athletic team stack up to football? It can't. No amount of women's teams will ever add up to the expenses of a football team. However, the scholarships, modes of transportation, recruiting and facilities can all be equalized.

Think of it as an argument between football spending and basketball spending. Ohio chooses to spend money on both relatively equally to the situation they are in, correct? Other schools, say TCU for example, would rather put more of their eggs into the football basket than basketball. It's essentially the same with Title IX. Ohio spends more money on football and basketball because it brings in more money than any women's sport. They are still providing the same opportunities to each athlete, however.

The real argument lies with television rights from ESPN and the like. Title IX could essentially jump all over that for televising more men's than women's games, although I'm not positive of the legalities of that.

As far as your second scenario, that's a whole other conversation in itself. It's also another reason why I don't think we'll ever see college athletes get paid. Aside from the worker's comp portion and all the other stuff, Title IX is still there.

Last Edited: 2/12/2014 11:50:23 AM by GoCats105

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 12:51:23 PM 
I understood that my hypothetical would never happen in its pure form. It was simply designed to be illustrative. To make it more realistic, you could add some other men's teams, and some women's teams. Say that the university had a $16m total budget, of which it was contributing $6m, and the $6m was being spent $3m on other men's sports, and $3m on women's sports. Now add Title IX, and the result is the same. At Ohio, I believe the result is now that in addition to football, there are 11 women's sports and 4 men's sports.

GoCats105 wrote:
....As far as your second scenario, that's a whole other conversation in itself. It's also another reason why I don't think we'll ever see college athletes get paid. Aside from the worker's comp portion and all the other stuff, Title IX is still there.

Yes, that was exactly my point. The situation regarding unionization/discontinuing of football is very complex, and Title IX is right there in the middle of it. If one group gets what they want, it will have ramifications on other groups.

As another way it could play out, suppose those that hate football were to succeed in getting it ended completely. A major loser would be women's sports. Men's sports such as swimming, gymnastics, wrestling, and track would make a comeback, and there would in turn be some reductions in some of the women's sports. Overall the amount of money spent on athletics would probably increase because the replacement sports would mostly be non-revenue generating.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 2:26:46 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I understood that my hypothetical would never happen in its pure form. It was simply designed to be illustrative. To make it more realistic, you could add some other men's teams, and some women's teams. Say that the university had a $16m total budget, of which it was contributing $6m, and the $6m was being spent $3m on other men's sports, and $3m on women's sports. Now add Title IX, and the result is the same. At Ohio, I believe the result is now that in addition to football, there are 11 women's sports and 4 men's sports.

GoCats105 wrote:
....As far as your second scenario, that's a whole other conversation in itself. It's also another reason why I don't think we'll ever see college athletes get paid. Aside from the worker's comp portion and all the other stuff, Title IX is still there.

Yes, that was exactly my point. The situation regarding unionization/discontinuing of football is very complex, and Title IX is right there in the middle of it. If one group gets what they want, it will have ramifications on other groups.

As another way it could play out, suppose those that hate football were to succeed in getting it ended completely. A major loser would be women's sports. Men's sports such as swimming, gymnastics, wrestling, and track would make a comeback, and there would in turn be some reductions in some of the women's sports. Overall the amount of money spent on athletics would probably increase because the replacement sports would mostly be non-revenue generating.


I don't know if it would necessarily cut those women's sports, but just add those missing men's sports to make up the difference. Really, the only sport that women don't have a comparison sport to is football. The 85 scholarship limit is such a monster compared to other sports. What has the next highest number of participants? Baseball? Track and field (if they participate in every event)?

The money spent would actually decrease IMO, but like you stated they aren't revenue generating sports, so the bottom line revenues would go down too. The thing about football just isn't the 85 scholarships. That's everything that includes one football player, 85 times (meals, tutors, gear, medical, etc.)Then it's all the equipment, which would include costs for non-scholarship players. Then there's payouts to FCS schools for coming to Athens. I don't know if that kind of money would necessarily be spent in other sports the same way.

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Scott Woods
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 2:32:38 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I also have participated in club sports, by the way, where we got no money, and had to constantly be engaged in fund raising to pay for our travel expenses. Maybe that's how all sports should be run. It certainly was "fair", and no one would dispute that.



I vote this. ^

Disband the NCAA and have all college sports participate at the club level.

Let the professional sports leagues and teams pay athletes.


Religion morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

So enter that daily thou mayest grow in knowledge wisdom and love. So depart that daily thou mayest better serve thy fellowmen thy country and thy God.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 3:12:51 PM 
I don't have current numbers, but using these numbers posted here a couple years ago, Ohio had football expenses of 6.8 million dollars, a loss on football of $920k, and the total atheletic department Budget was about $22 million. That means that about $15m is spent on non-football sports. If one takes a wild guess that the total number of all athletes of all genders is about 500, of which 125 play football, then the number of athletes not in football might be 375. That means that the expenses per non-football athlete would be about $15m/375=$40k each.  Meanwhile the amount spent on football players would be $7m/125=$56,000. Replacing football players with athletes in other sports would reduce the expenditures by $16,000*125, or $2 million. Unfortunately it would also reduce the revenue by $5.9 million, so the athletic department would need additional money from the University in the amount of $3.9m a year, or some sports would have to be cut, which in my mind is the more likely scenario.



“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/12/2014 4:17:50 PM 
What all of it tells me really is that Ohio does a really good job of (A) balancing the budget amongst all sports given the circumstances and (B) complying with Title IX to the best of their ability given the circumstances.

That story I mentioned above about non-revenue coaches of women sports asking the general student population to play sports happens mostly at big schools where the difference between men and women's sports is so great that they have to scramble to make up the difference. Think about a school like OSU that has pretty much the same sports for both women and men, but then they have football. How do you make up for that? Especially by creating athletic teams where participants didn't even play the sport in high school.

The difference between OSU and Ohio is that the Buckeye football team makes so much money that they virtually pay all of the athletic department bills, including women's sports. Thus the need for the student fee at Ohio.

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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/13/2014 2:42:09 PM 
There are a broad range of topics here that I always enjoy debating but haven't had time to tackle until now, so let me take a couple of stabs:
 
  1. Regarding the young man's Post editorial: If I took the time to list all the goods and services I view as non-essential to my existence that I support through all the various fees and taxes I pay in life, I would never leave my house.  While I respect his right to his opinion, I rarely spend time worrying about the things in my life that only pertain to 2.5-3% of my out of pocket expense.  Football will always carry the burden of these discussions due to the size of the roster, and the size of the physical plants that support the enterprise.  Having myself chosen not to have children, imagine how much more I could have donated to OHIO if only those who have children had to carry 100% of the cost of their K-12 education, and I could have taken an educational voucher as a donation to the institution of my choosing.  But I didn't have to buy my house and pay the property taxes that come with that privilege to support those public schools, just as the student didn't have to choose to attend OHIO.  I hope the Board and the President will continue to support ICA and allocate Student Fees in their support, as they did when I was a student.  The irony is that when I was a student in the 80's, state institutional support was much higher, making tuition far more affordable and the student fee a much greater percentage of my total cost to attend.  DAMN, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY PISSED RELATIVE TO THIS GENERATION'S PISSEDNESS!  What a dumbass I was back then.  Is there such a thing as retroactive pissedness?!  But I digress.
  2. MPF/The Walter Gift and Student Fees to Run It: The Walter Gift for the MPF was never designated exclusively for the benefit of the Football program just as the Walter Gift for the renovations of the Convo was not for the exclusive benefit of the Men's Basketball Program.  The Fieldhouse was always intended as a multi-purpose facility that would primarily but not exclusively benefit athletics.  It was always intended to benefit the student body, and that is why it is being overseen as such.  And recall, the only reason it has a four lane track is due to the insistence of student leaders that it have such.  Is it appropriate that it is exclusively being maintained by the student fee?  Refer back to point one above.
  3. OUr Donor Hole: I don't believe I would be betraying the confidence of a former development officer if I shared some insight that was passed along to me that can explain our particular void of donor support for ICA.  If you deep dive our potential donor base, there is a precise, 25 year void of significant donors in an age range of people that were in their undergrad years between Alden and Glidden.  It also exists to a lesser extent in the general fundraising efforts.  As we all know, those were the dark years for OHIO Football, and I am certain many of you know OHIO grads from that era that make significant financial contributions to the evil empire.  This 25 year void of engagement of people with high donor potential in their peak contributing years can be traced directly back to when we saw little institutional support for ICA, and our present fundraising efforts are having to play catch up to fill that generational void.


The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/13/2014 3:03:57 PM 
D.A. wrote:
. . . 
  1. OUr Donor Hole: I don't believe I would be betraying the confidence of a former development officer if I shared some insight that was passed along to me that can explain our particular void of donor support for ICA.  If you deep dive our potential donor base, there is a precise, 25 year void of significant donors in an age range of people that were in their undergrad years between Alden and Glidden.  It also exists to a lesser extent in the general fundraising efforts.  As we all know, those were the dark years for OHIO Football, and I am certain many of you know OHIO grads from that era that make significant financial contributions to the evil empire.  This 25 year void of engagement of people with high donor potential in their peak contributing years can be traced directly back to when we saw little institutional support for ICA, and our present fundraising efforts are having to play catch up to fill that generational void.

I can add independent confirmation of this ICA "donor hole."  There are some innovative ideas about how to get around this "hole" that have been discussed from time to time.  

 


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/13/2014 6:39:24 PM 
D.A. wrote:
There are a broad range of topics here that I always enjoy debating but haven't had time to tackle until now, so let me take a couple of stabs:
 
  1. Regarding the young man's Post editorial: If I took the time to list all the goods and services I view as non-essential to my existence that I support through all the various fees and taxes I pay in life, I would never leave my house.  While I respect his right to his opinion, I rarely spend time worrying about the things in my life that only pertain to 2.5-3% of my out of pocket expense.  Football will always carry the burden of these discussions due to the size of the roster, and the size of the physical plants that support the enterprise.  Having myself chosen not to have children, imagine how much more I could have donated to OHIO if only those who have children had to carry 100% of the cost of their K-12 education, and I could have taken an educational voucher as a donation to the institution of my choosing.  But I didn't have to buy my house and pay the property taxes that come with that privilege to support those public schools, just as the student didn't have to choose to attend OHIO.  I hope the Board and the President will continue to support ICA and allocate Student Fees in their support, as they did when I was a student.  The irony is that when I was a student in the 80's, state institutional support was much higher, making tuition far more affordable and the student fee a much greater percentage of my total cost to attend.  DAMN, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY PISSED RELATIVE TO THIS GENERATION'S PISSEDNESS!  What a dumbass I was back then.  Is there such a thing as retroactive pissedness?!  But I digress.
  2. MPF/The Walter Gift and Student Fees to Run It: The Walter Gift for the MPF was never designated exclusively for the benefit of the Football program just as the Walter Gift for the renovations of the Convo was not for the exclusive benefit of the Men's Basketball Program.  The Fieldhouse was always intended as a multi-purpose facility that would primarily but not exclusively benefit athletics.  It was always intended to benefit the student body, and that is why it is being overseen as such.  And recall, the only reason it has a four lane track is due to the insistence of student leaders that it have such.  Is it appropriate that it is exclusively being maintained by the student fee?  Refer back to point one above.
  3. OUr Donor Hole: I don't believe I would be betraying the confidence of a former development officer if I shared some insight that was passed along to me that can explain our particular void of donor support for ICA.  If you deep dive our potential donor base, there is a precise, 25 year void of significant donors in an age range of people that were in their undergrad years between Alden and Glidden.  It also exists to a lesser extent in the general fundraising efforts.  As we all know, those were the dark years for OHIO Football, and I am certain many of you know OHIO grads from that era that make significant financial contributions to the evil empire.  This 25 year void of engagement of people with high donor potential in their peak contributing years can be traced directly back to when we saw little institutional support for ICA, and our present fundraising efforts are having to play catch up to fill that generational void.


The committee that oversaw this thing recommended a track but it was cut because the belief was that they couldn't raise the funds.  The facility as now configured is about 85% of the cost of the one the committee wanted.
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D.A.
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Georgetown, ME
Post Count: 1,174

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/13/2014 7:08:03 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
D.A. wrote:
There are a broad range of topics here that I always enjoy debating but haven't had time to tackle until now, so let me take a couple of stabs:
 
  1. Regarding the young man's Post editorial: If I took the time to list all the goods and services I view as non-essential to my existence that I support through all the various fees and taxes I pay in life, I would never leave my house.  While I respect his right to his opinion, I rarely spend time worrying about the things in my life that only pertain to 2.5-3% of my out of pocket expense.  Football will always carry the burden of these discussions due to the size of the roster, and the size of the physical plants that support the enterprise.  Having myself chosen not to have children, imagine how much more I could have donated to OHIO if only those who have children had to carry 100% of the cost of their K-12 education, and I could have taken an educational voucher as a donation to the institution of my choosing.  But I didn't have to buy my house and pay the property taxes that come with that privilege to support those public schools, just as the student didn't have to choose to attend OHIO.  I hope the Board and the President will continue to support ICA and allocate Student Fees in their support, as they did when I was a student.  The irony is that when I was a student in the 80's, state institutional support was much higher, making tuition far more affordable and the student fee a much greater percentage of my total cost to attend.  DAMN, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY PISSED RELATIVE TO THIS GENERATION'S PISSEDNESS!  What a dumbass I was back then.  Is there such a thing as retroactive pissedness?!  But I digress.
  2. MPF/The Walter Gift and Student Fees to Run It: The Walter Gift for the MPF was never designated exclusively for the benefit of the Football program just as the Walter Gift for the renovations of the Convo was not for the exclusive benefit of the Men's Basketball Program.  The Fieldhouse was always intended as a multi-purpose facility that would primarily but not exclusively benefit athletics.  It was always intended to benefit the student body, and that is why it is being overseen as such.  And recall, the only reason it has a four lane track is due to the insistence of student leaders that it have such.  Is it appropriate that it is exclusively being maintained by the student fee?  Refer back to point one above.
  3. OUr Donor Hole: I don't believe I would be betraying the confidence of a former development officer if I shared some insight that was passed along to me that can explain our particular void of donor support for ICA.  If you deep dive our potential donor base, there is a precise, 25 year void of significant donors in an age range of people that were in their undergrad years between Alden and Glidden.  It also exists to a lesser extent in the general fundraising efforts.  As we all know, those were the dark years for OHIO Football, and I am certain many of you know OHIO grads from that era that make significant financial contributions to the evil empire.  This 25 year void of engagement of people with high donor potential in their peak contributing years can be traced directly back to when we saw little institutional support for ICA, and our present fundraising efforts are having to play catch up to fill that generational void.


The committee that oversaw this thing recommended a track but it was cut because the belief was that they couldn't raise the funds.  The facility as now configured is about 85% of the cost of the one the committee wanted.

Last Edited: 2/13/2014 7:08:29 PM by D.A.


The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/15/2014 11:17:24 AM 
D.A. wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
D.A. wrote:
There are a broad range of topics here that I always enjoy debating but haven't had time to tackle until now, so let me take a couple of stabs:
 
  1. Regarding the young man's Post editorial: If I took the time to list all the goods and services I view as non-essential to my existence that I support through all the various fees and taxes I pay in life, I would never leave my house.  While I respect his right to his opinion, I rarely spend time worrying about the things in my life that only pertain to 2.5-3% of my out of pocket expense.  Football will always carry the burden of these discussions due to the size of the roster, and the size of the physical plants that support the enterprise.  Having myself chosen not to have children, imagine how much more I could have donated to OHIO if only those who have children had to carry 100% of the cost of their K-12 education, and I could have taken an educational voucher as a donation to the institution of my choosing.  But I didn't have to buy my house and pay the property taxes that come with that privilege to support those public schools, just as the student didn't have to choose to attend OHIO.  I hope the Board and the President will continue to support ICA and allocate Student Fees in their support, as they did when I was a student.  The irony is that when I was a student in the 80's, state institutional support was much higher, making tuition far more affordable and the student fee a much greater percentage of my total cost to attend.  DAMN, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY PISSED RELATIVE TO THIS GENERATION'S PISSEDNESS!  What a dumbass I was back then.  Is there such a thing as retroactive pissedness?!  But I digress.
  2. MPF/The Walter Gift and Student Fees to Run It: The Walter Gift for the MPF was never designated exclusively for the benefit of the Football program just as the Walter Gift for the renovations of the Convo was not for the exclusive benefit of the Men's Basketball Program.  The Fieldhouse was always intended as a multi-purpose facility that would primarily but not exclusively benefit athletics.  It was always intended to benefit the student body, and that is why it is being overseen as such.  And recall, the only reason it has a four lane track is due to the insistence of student leaders that it have such.  Is it appropriate that it is exclusively being maintained by the student fee?  Refer back to point one above.
  3. OUr Donor Hole: I don't believe I would be betraying the confidence of a former development officer if I shared some insight that was passed along to me that can explain our particular void of donor support for ICA.  If you deep dive our potential donor base, there is a precise, 25 year void of significant donors in an age range of people that were in their undergrad years between Alden and Glidden.  It also exists to a lesser extent in the general fundraising efforts.  As we all know, those were the dark years for OHIO Football, and I am certain many of you know OHIO grads from that era that make significant financial contributions to the evil empire.  This 25 year void of engagement of people with high donor potential in their peak contributing years can be traced directly back to when we saw little institutional support for ICA, and our present fundraising efforts are having to play catch up to fill that generational void.


The committee that oversaw this thing recommended a track but it was cut because the belief was that they couldn't raise the funds.  The facility as now configured is about 85% of the cost of the one the committee wanted.


What amazes me is how "important" the opinion of student senate execs is when it fits the university's interests and how trivial that opinion is when it doesn't.  
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Campus Flow
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Indoor practice facility
   Posted: 2/15/2014 3:48:09 PM 
SBH wrote:
An even more egregious fail is the FB locker room project - we've been trying to raise 500k for THREE YEARS and still have only 150k.  As much as we like to brag about the progress we've made in recent years, we still have an alumni base that is almost completely disengaged from Ohio Athletics.  Sad but true…and probably won't change.

The alumni base steps up to attend homecoming, Saturday basketball games or when we play in Cleveland or Penn State to a level you don't see with other MAC schools. The problem I believe is that outside of the students and those working for the university its a very small local business community. People with local businesses usually have a communitarian approach to donations and will back and support the local Division 1 team. In Athens that money has flowed traditionally into advertising meaning that businesses are buying advertising over giving donations so their getting value in return.  With Schaus the model has been expanded more to the region. Ad space from the Parkersburg area is new. Now he wants to sell naming rights to the Convo and Peden to raise money for the academic performace center. Its hard to envision someone who is non-university, non-business owner locally that is sitting on 350,000 and wants to give it to the football program. In a community like Huntington you've got some blue collar money from high paying union jobs of days past along with a fair amount of professional people that can unload 100k on athletics. They have a mid sized market to work with. Athens is a micro market and if it wasn't for the fact it is the only real town for a 30 mile radius most of the shopping and development wouldn't be there.
 


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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