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Topic:  RE: The "college" vote?

Topic:  RE: The "college" vote?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/15/2020 9:30:43 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:


I am not saying some republicans haven't and don't want to suppress votes. but most of the cases i have seen have really not been much more then requiring a ID and i am sorry i don't think asking you to prove you are who you say you are is voter suppression.


Sure, letís just go ahead and institute a poll tax as well, has the same effect. You really do not see the closing of polling stations and early voting locations as an issue? Then you will never understand what itís like being a minority in this nation.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 1:04:31 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:


I think there is a big difference in between old republicans and new republicans. Granted most of the republicans out there right now on national stage are old republicans. But they now have a new group of people they represent.

I think over the next 4 to 8 years people will really begin to understand that the parties have now changed sides. and the democrats are now the voice of the people who used to represent the rich and companies and republicans are now the party of the working man and the poor.


Low income voters (50k + below households) voted for Biden by a 12 point margin. That's an increase over 2016, in which they voted for Clinton by an 8 point margin. High income voters swung further towards Trump.

I know Republicans are trying to newly claim they're the party of the working class, but in doing so, there leaving out a key adjective. They're the party of the white working class. Once you include minority voting blocs, Republicans are 12 points away -- a huge and growing margin -- from being the party of choice amongst the working man and the poor.



I live in a county that over half would below 50K trump won the county by a landslide. most poor people that still vote for democrats do it because they believe the news not the facts.

a lot of people still believe welfare and medical cards are a hand up not a hand out to keep them in there place.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 1:05:52 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:


I am not saying some republicans haven't and don't want to suppress votes. but most of the cases i have seen have really not been much more then requiring a ID and i am sorry i don't think asking you to prove you are who you say you are is voter suppression.


Sure, letís just go ahead and institute a poll tax as well, has the same effect. You really do not see the closing of polling stations and early voting locations as an issue? Then you will never understand what itís like being a minority in this nation.


I do believe my heritage and my race makes me a minority in this country. i think we only make up about 12% of the population
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 1:15:56 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:


I think there is a big difference in between old republicans and new republicans. Granted most of the republicans out there right now on national stage are old republicans. But they now have a new group of people they represent.

I think over the next 4 to 8 years people will really begin to understand that the parties have now changed sides. and the democrats are now the voice of the people who used to represent the rich and companies and republicans are now the party of the working man and the poor.


Low income voters (50k + below households) voted for Biden by a 12 point margin. That's an increase over 2016, in which they voted for Clinton by an 8 point margin. High income voters swung further towards Trump.

I know Republicans are trying to newly claim they're the party of the working class, but in doing so, there leaving out a key adjective. They're the party of the white working class. Once you include minority voting blocs, Republicans are 12 points away -- a huge and growing margin -- from being the party of choice amongst the working man and the poor.



I live in a county that over half would below 50K trump won the county by a landslide. most poor people that still vote for democrats do it because they believe the news not the facts.

a lot of people still believe welfare and medical cards are a hand up not a hand out to keep them in there place.


FACTS????
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 6:57:59 PM 
per us census bureau quick facts gallia county ohio
median household income $42,113
per capita income $22,588
persons in poverty 22.1%
population estimate 29,898
board of elections says 19,000 registered voters
trump 10,289
biden 2,911
jorgenson 126
hawkins 32

two or more races make up 1.9%


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 7:25:43 PM 
Counties that voted for Biden are responsible for over 70% of the country's economic output. I'm not sure that squares with your assumption that Biden voters just want a handout. The facts show that blue states pay more than they take, where as red states are net negative and take more than they pay.

Which facts are they ignoring and which news are they listening to instead?

Last Edited: 11/16/2020 7:35:53 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 7:30:50 PM 
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/galliacountyohio

White voters with lower incomes and lower levels of educational attainment make up trump's base. The numbers point that out.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 7:52:41 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Counties that voted for Biden are responsible for over 70% of the country's economic output. I'm not sure that squares with your assumption that Biden voters just want a handout. The facts show that blue states pay more than they take, where as red states are net negative and take more than they pay.

Which facts are they ignoring and which news are they listening to instead?


So let make me make sure i understand your point. So since 70% of the countries output comes from counties that voted for Biden. Now i don't know this to be a fact but i would say a lot of the united states biggest companies are located in these counties would that be correct? And my guess is a lot of the countries top 1% of people that we talk about probably also live in these counties would this be correct? My guess would be they have higher average incomes and have a higher percent of college graduates would this be correct? so my guess is also if we put all of these counties together they would not have an extremely high poverty level.

Now i am not making statements that all this is true because a city like philly has extremely high poverty rate where as San Francisco is extremely low.

so your saying that democrats and Biden our really the party of big business and the wealthy right?
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 7:56:32 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/galliacountyohio

White voters with lower incomes and lower levels of educational attainment make up trump's base. The numbers point that out.


But i am not a white voter and my household makes well above the county average.

i by no means make what the wealthy people in my county make but as a household we are probably in the top 30% or so in county. Me and my wife both have college degrees.

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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 7:59:06 PM 
But let me say this i do not consider myself a TRUMP supporter. I did vote for him twice but i voted for him even though i thought personally he was despicable man. But he shared the closest views to mine. I would of loved to have a different conservative representing my views.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 8:11:54 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Counties that voted for Biden are responsible for over 70% of the country's economic output. I'm not sure that squares with your assumption that Biden voters just want a handout. The facts show that blue states pay more than they take, where as red states are net negative and take more than they pay.

Which facts are they ignoring and which news are they listening to instead?


So let make me make sure i understand your point. So since 70% of the countries output comes from counties that voted for Biden. Now i don't know this to be a fact but i would say a lot of the united states biggest companies are located in these counties would that be correct? And my guess is a lot of the countries top 1% of people that we talk about probably also live in these counties would this be correct? My guess would be they have higher average incomes and have a higher percent of college graduates would this be correct? so my guess is also if we put all of these counties together they would not have an extremely high poverty level.

Now i am not making statements that all this is true because a city like philly has extremely high poverty rate where as San Francisco is extremely low.

so your saying that democrats and Biden our really the party of big business and the wealthy right?


The facts simply don't support your opinion.

On a national level, low income voters voted for Biden by a 12 point margin. White voters with college degrees, on the other hand, supported Trump by a 3 point margin. That's down from 14 points in 2016. Trump. Voters with a household income greater than 100k voted for Trump by 12 points. Those are facts.

Also, you've clearly never been to San Francisco.


Last Edited: 11/16/2020 8:12:52 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 8:25:55 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Counties that voted for Biden are responsible for over 70% of the country's economic output. I'm not sure that squares with your assumption that Biden voters just want a handout. The facts show that blue states pay more than they take, where as red states are net negative and take more than they pay.

Which facts are they ignoring and which news are they listening to instead?


So let make me make sure i understand your point. So since 70% of the countries output comes from counties that voted for Biden. Now i don't know this to be a fact but i would say a lot of the united states biggest companies are located in these counties would that be correct? And my guess is a lot of the countries top 1% of people that we talk about probably also live in these counties would this be correct? My guess would be they have higher average incomes and have a higher percent of college graduates would this be correct? so my guess is also if we put all of these counties together they would not have an extremely high poverty level.

Now i am not making statements that all this is true because a city like philly has extremely high poverty rate where as San Francisco is extremely low.

so your saying that democrats and Biden our really the party of big business and the wealthy right?


The facts simply don't support your opinion.

On a national level, low income voters voted for Biden by a 12 point margin. White voters with college degrees, on the other hand, supported Trump by a 3 point margin. That's down from 14 points in 2016. Trump. Voters with a household income greater than 100k voted for Trump by 12 points. Those are facts.

Also, you've clearly never been to San Francisco.



where are you getting your numbers from exit polls? i am just asking and the information on san francisco is data i took off a census report i have no idea if it is correct but it says less then 10% below poverty level.


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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 8:30:49 PM 
And didn't we figure out 4 years ago that pre election polls and exit polling data did not reflect the actual vote total? And i think i just saw a story on CNN yesterday that says according to exit polling data and the numbers figured that that the data can not be considered accurate.

Look i have no idea how rich people or poor people voted on a national level. Because i only live one place and i know how i voted and i know how other people around country i network with told me they voted. But i really have no idea how they marked their ballot.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 8:32:27 PM 
I added a link above that has some data. https://www.ft.com/content/69f3206f-37a7-4561-bebf-5929e7...

And I've just been to San Francisco a lot. The census data doesn't tell the story because of huge homeless populations that aren't reported as part of the census. The homelessness and poverty levels in San Francisco are basically an epidemic. There are tent cities everywhere you look. It's a sad place.

Last Edited: 11/16/2020 8:38:44 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/16/2020 8:37:17 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
And didn't we figure out 4 years ago that pre election polls and exit polling data did not reflect the actual vote total? And i think i just saw a story on CNN yesterday that says according to exit polling data and the numbers figured that that the data can not be considered accurate.

Look i have no idea how rich people or poor people voted on a national level. Because i only live one place and i know how i voted and i know how other people around country i network with told me they voted. But i really have no idea how they marked their ballot.


The data is available and exists. I get it doesn't support what you thought prior, but it's actual data. Earlier in this thread, you accused others of ignoring facts in favor of believing what the news tells them. There are facts available here, if you're interested in learning them. Just a Google away.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 11:06:15 AM 
SVAC83 wrote:
But let me say this i do not consider myself a TRUMP supporter. I did vote for him twice but i voted for him even though i thought personally he was despicable man. But he shared the closest views to mine. I would of loved to have a different conservative representing my views.


And therein lies the great conundrum - voting for a despicable man. What possibly can such a person offer that outweighs right and wrong?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 11:15:15 AM 
The worldly view of the Appalachian voter. Because my community feels this way and I see this in my little world, the rest of America must be the same! I really need a facepalm emoji.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 11:16:31 AM 
SVAC83 wrote:
But let me say this i do not consider myself a TRUMP supporter. I did vote for him twice but i voted for him even though i thought personally he was despicable man. But he shared the closest views to mine. I would of loved to have a different conservative representing my views.


Voting for Trump twice, but are not a supporter. I would hate to see how many times you'd vote for Trump if you did support him.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 11:17:59 AM 
So that data that you are using is from exit polls. The same exit polls that said trump won 53% of white women 4 years ago. But goes on to say after evaluating the election results he really only won 47% of white women in 2016. But goes on to say that in 2020 trump won 55% of women but when we look at all results. It is probably going to closer to 45% of white women.

Would this be the same polling data that says hey we know this isn't right. Because if you take all the first time voters and who they said they voted for and take all the people that claim they voted for trump in 2016 and voted for someone else this time. There numbers suggest Biden would have about 84 million votes and Trump 65 million votes.

Would this be the same exit polls that in 2016 came out and said they were wrong about the number of lower income people that voted for trump because if there numbers were correct. he could of not won Michigan, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin if there percentages were correct.

So you are absolutely correct there is data out there. But if Edison research says we know this data cant be correct that either are weighting percentages are wrong or people lied to us what good is the data. And it is there data>>>>>
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 11:29:10 AM 
SVAC83 wrote:
So that data that you are using is from exit polls. The same exit polls that said trump won 53% of white women 4 years ago. But goes on to say after evaluating the election results he really only won 47% of white women in 2016. But goes on to say that in 2020 trump won 55% of women but when we look at all results. It is probably going to closer to 45% of white women.

Would this be the same polling data that says hey we know this isn't right. Because if you take all the first time voters and who they said they voted for and take all the people that claim they voted for trump in 2016 and voted for someone else this time. There numbers suggest Biden would have about 84 million votes and Trump 65 million votes.

Would this be the same exit polls that in 2016 came out and said they were wrong about the number of lower income people that voted for trump because if there numbers were correct. he could of not won Michigan, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin if there percentages were correct.

So you are absolutely correct there is data out there. But if Edison research says we know this data cant be correct that either are weighting percentages are wrong or people lied to us what good is the data. And it is there data>>>>>


You are making an assertion -- that the Republican party is the party of the poor and working class.

I'm challenging that assertion and providing data to support my opinion. You may not feel that the data is perfect, but I'm still providing far more support for my assertion than you're providing for yours.

What evidence can you provide that Trump outperformed Biden with low income voters? Conversely, what evidence can you provide that Biden outperformed Trump with high income voters? You're making a statement, but providing no supporting evidence.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 6:59:39 PM 
well if you read the articles when you google the exit polls from the same company that conducted the exit polls and it says this data has very little credibility and cannot be correct based on actual election results. Pretty much says we do not know.

And your right i have no hard credible evidence to provide. i can tell you the company i work for has over 5000 locations in the united states over half of them in major metropolitan areas. that in a online poll on our internal internet there were over 25000 respondents and 52% of the people said they were going to vote for trump. most of these people would fall in the under 50K a year section of wages.

But i in no way consider these facts. i have no idea if these people actually voted or not and because probably 10% of the people or more that responded may be in the 100K range and that could of skewed the results.

And i guess maybe i didn't make my point as clear as i think. Because i believe a lot of poor and low income people that make under 50K a year voted for Biden my point was i have no freaking idea why they would do that.

since i got out of navy in 1992 my house hold income has ranged from about 32K to now about 95K. I really see very little that democratic policies have done for me in the last 30 years.

I have not had a job that paid for my medical insurance since i left the navy and finished my degree. I was in a much better place before the affordable care act was passed i actually had insurance me and my family could afford to use. Now i pay outrageous premiums to have insurance that i can afford to use.

I get the people that got extended medicare benefits that it helped but we could of expanded medicare without destroying the open market for health insurance.
in 2008 or 2009 i had a choice of 13 different insurance companies and 100 different plans. I have had nothing close to this choice since affordable care act.

When i get ahead a little bit and i have some money i can invest then democrats want to tax any capital gains i may make at a higher rate. I feel democratic policies have tried to keep me from getting ahead.

i understand that people think companies got a huge tax break under trump i got about 1500 a year better off after the tax cuts. That was good for me.

So i get you are a liberal and you think Democratic policies our better but someone who works with low wage earners every day and have advanced above that the republican party is who has had our backs not democrats.

that is why i don't know why poor or black people vote for democrats or that is the impression that they do. I don't understand voting for things that hold me back.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 7:04:00 PM 
i voted for Clinton in 1996. and i voted for Obama in 2008 because i thought maybe change would be good. i have voted for democratic governors and senators and congressmen if i thought they were better options to what i had.

So This is why i feel like the democratic party has left me. They are not the party they were years ago. They no longer represent my needs and wants.
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 7:59:03 PM 
SVAC--I appreciate your level-headed discussion about all of this. I don't mean this as an inflammatory comment, but really just a way to listen to the other side: What do you feel the Republican party as it is now has done for you or is looking to do for you? You mentioned that the Democratic Party has left you, so I am just curious about the flipside.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 8:00:38 PM 
If you think any politician is going to solve your economic issues, youíre barking up the wrong tree. I always vote for the person, not the party. I guess you know for whom I didnít vote.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: The "college" vote?
   Posted: 11/17/2020 8:10:45 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
well if you read the articles when you google the exit polls from the same company that conducted the exit polls and it says this data has very little credibility and cannot be correct based on actual election results. Pretty much says we do not know.

And your right i have no hard credible evidence to provide. i can tell you the company i work for has over 5000 locations in the united states over half of them in major metropolitan areas. that in a online poll on our internal internet there were over 25000 respondents and 52% of the people said they were going to vote for trump. most of these people would fall in the under 50K a year section of wages.

But i in no way consider these facts. i have no idea if these people actually voted or not and because probably 10% of the people or more that responded may be in the 100K range and that could of skewed the results.

And i guess maybe i didn't make my point as clear as i think. Because i believe a lot of poor and low income people that make under 50K a year voted for Biden my point was i have no freaking idea why they would do that.

since i got out of navy in 1992 my house hold income has ranged from about 32K to now about 95K. I really see very little that democratic policies have done for me in the last 30 years.

I have not had a job that paid for my medical insurance since i left the navy and finished my degree. I was in a much better place before the affordable care act was passed i actually had insurance me and my family could afford to use. Now i pay outrageous premiums to have insurance that i can afford to use.

I get the people that got extended medicare benefits that it helped but we could of expanded medicare without destroying the open market for health insurance.
in 2008 or 2009 i had a choice of 13 different insurance companies and 100 different plans. I have had nothing close to this choice since affordable care act.

When i get ahead a little bit and i have some money i can invest then democrats want to tax any capital gains i may make at a higher rate. I feel democratic policies have tried to keep me from getting ahead.

i understand that people think companies got a huge tax break under trump i got about 1500 a year better off after the tax cuts. That was good for me.

So i get you are a liberal and you think Democratic policies our better but someone who works with low wage earners every day and have advanced above that the republican party is who has had our backs not democrats.

that is why i don't know why poor or black people vote for democrats or that is the impression that they do. I don't understand voting for things that hold me back.


It is unclear to me how you work for a company that large, and they don't offer you health insurance. Are you an independent contractor? Could you explain further? I work in an adjacent industry, understand healthcare policy well, and I can't see how your company isn't in direct violation of the Affordable Care Act.

The policy discussion's probably not even worth having. I suspect we're miles apart, if only because I don't actually believe Republicans or Democrats are even in much of a position to determine if you can "get ahead" these days.

Things like capital gains taxes matter a little, but only on the margins. To me, the only way the government can help people "get ahead" is to ensure that the baseline social safety net is strong enough that it empowers entrepreneurship and risk taking. I support Democratic social policy because they're further down the road towards universal healthcare, universal basic income, and providing basic social services like childcare such that Americans aren't forced to work jobs that do nothing but provide them health insurance and keep them from being homeless. The bottom falls out on so many Americans, that our economy incentivises safety over ingenuity. A robust social safety net would, in my opinion, empower people to pursue bigger ambitions, because failure doesn't mean bankruptcy from medical bills.

But America is so far from that, that neither party will get us there. So ultimately, the policies we debate -- capital gains, income tax, the ACA -- have marginal impacts, and don't really move the needle in any substantial way. We see incremental improvement here or there, but nothing structural is close to real change, and add a result, Presidents rarely have any real reason to claim credit for the economy, one way or another. I've run a business -- a compliance heavy one, under a Democratic administration and under a Republican one. I only noticed a difference Uber Trump, and only because of his sheer incompetence around Covid. Had we had a run of the mill GOP President, one actually capable of being the chief executive of the federal government, I'd have noticed no difference at all. At least economically.

Just my opinion though.

Last Edited: 11/17/2020 8:27:40 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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