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Topic:  Pursuit of justice

Topic:  Pursuit of justice
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/20/2019 10:03:13 AM 
It makes you wonder, one year later, if the Dispatch had not recently run that 6 day piece on hazing, if these indictiments would have been handed down.

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20191119/sigma-pi-fraternit...
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/20/2019 11:01:24 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
It makes you wonder, one year later, if the Dispatch had not recently run that 6 day piece on hazing, if these indictiments would have been handed down.

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20191119/sigma-pi-fraternit...


These indictments were in the works since summer. Hence the business named was raided by multiple agencies about 6 weeks ago. The pending indictments also may have been the reason for the 11 months late crack down campus wide. Some of those charges will be very hard to deliver on.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/20/2019 11:23:54 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


Some of those charges will be very hard to deliver on.


I do expert testimony in Drug Free School Zone Cases.

I've found that prosecutors will hit a person with as many charges as they can.
Gives more leeway to negotiate a plea.
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finnOhio
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Location: Rockton, IL
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/20/2019 11:29:45 AM 
Pleading ignorance here, but how can somebody be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter when there was just a single death?

From article:

‒ Former OU student James Dylan Wanke, 25, of Athens: two counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of trafficking in harmful intoxicants and distributing nitrous oxide. Wanke worked at the Silver Serpent store in Athens that sold the whippits that Wiant inhaled.

Last Edited: 11/20/2019 11:30:24 AM by finnOhio

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/20/2019 11:30:28 AM 
And here I thought this was going to be about Gordon Sondland's testimony.

I'm curious to know the case history on charging a store employee for selling whippets. I mean, there is a practical (read non gettin' high) use for them, so how is the store employee held liable? That feels like a stretch.
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cc-cat
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Location: matthews, NC
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/20/2019 2:15:27 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
It makes you wonder, one year later, if the Dispatch had not recently run that 6 day piece on hazing, if these indictiments would have been handed down.

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20191119/sigma-pi-fraternit...


These indictments were in the works since summer. Hence the business named was raided by multiple agencies about 6 weeks ago. The pending indictments also may have been the reason for the 11 months late crack down campus wide. Some of those charges will be very hard to deliver on.


And others much much easier. Frat Boys are in trouble. Store employees not so much

Last Edited: 11/20/2019 2:16:22 PM by cc-cat

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 7:19:56 AM 
finnOhio wrote:
Pleading ignorance here, but how can somebody be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter when there was just a single death?

From article:

‒ Former OU student James Dylan Wanke, 25, of Athens: two counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of trafficking in harmful intoxicants and distributing nitrous oxide. Wanke worked at the Silver Serpent store in Athens that sold the whippits that Wiant inhaled.


I know in N.J. you can be charged with both First Degree and Second Degree Manslaughter for the same death.
Maybe that's the 2 counts.

Last Edited: 11/21/2019 7:23:07 AM by rpbobcat

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 9:03:47 AM 
Don't know if any of you followed the podcast series on this story, but I was struck by how quickly this young man's life spun out of control. A sexual assault claim. Poor academic performance. Many, many calls for help to high school friends, brother, etc. For some reason, he never reached out to his parents about what the frat was doing to him. Could it be that this was his father's fraternity as well? All parents could learn from this - back when I went away to school, parents pretty much told us we were on our own. The only expectation was a decent grade card at the end of every quarter. I was allowed to call home, reversing the charges, every other Sunday. Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.




Last Edited: 11/21/2019 9:34:05 AM by SBH

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 9:32:07 AM 
It is a sad state of affairs. For everyone. There will be no winners here. Certainly not this kid's family. Not the fraternity. Not the fraternity brothers, whether they're found innocent or guilty. Not the Silver Serpent. Not the university. Not the administration.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 10:02:52 AM 
SBH wrote:
Don't know if any of you followed the podcast series on this story, but I was struck by how quickly this young man's life spun out of control. A sexual assault claim. Poor academic performance. Many, many calls for help to high school friends, brother, etc. For some reason, he never reached out to his parents about what the frat was doing to him. Could it be that this was his father's fraternity as well? All parents could learn from this - back when I went away to school, parents pretty much told us we were on our own. The only expectation was a decent grade card at the end of every quarter. I was allowed to call home, reversing the charges, every other Sunday. Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.






Well said and very accurate in terms of going off to college in the 70s. Heck, my family was on vacation when I enrolled my freshman year and my girl friend, aunt and uncle took me to school. Bringing this back to today, I'm a big fan of pledging second semester freshman year so that an incoming student can begin to get adjusted to life on their own if that is even possible in this day of instant and free communication.

I got a kick out of the reversing charges comment. A trick that some may remember was calling home collect from the dorm phone and asking for yourself. Whoever answered the phone back home would tell the operator that your weren't there and then call you back reducing the cost of what the call would have cost.

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 11:26:00 AM 
I used to joke that I could tell my parents that doctors had found a spot on my lung and my father would still respond with, "This call is getting awfully expensive. Let's wrap it up."


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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 11:29:37 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs. For everyone. There will be no winners here. Certainly not this kid's family. Not the fraternity. Not the fraternity brothers, whether they're found innocent or guilty. Not the Silver Serpent. Not the university. Not the administration.


Not sure how that store can be charged when you can buy this stuff legally online too.

https://www.amazon.com/nitrous-oxide/s?k=nitrous+oxide

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 2:04:36 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:

I got a kick out of the reversing charges comment. A trick that some may remember was calling home collect from the dorm phone and asking for yourself. Whoever answered the phone back home would tell the operator that your weren't there and then call you back reducing the cost of what the call would have cost.



When I was at O.U. in the 70's, some of the offices had a WATS line.

From what I remember,you paid a set fee for it and got unlimited long distance.

When people found out which offices had them,they were always trying to
sneak in to make calls.



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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 3:14:59 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
When I was at O.U. in the 70's, some of the offices had a WATS line.

From what I remember,you paid a set fee for it and got unlimited long distance.

When people found out which offices had them,they were always trying to
sneak in to make calls.


The WATS line was available for SBH as well. But he was too straight up honest to take advantage of the free long-distance calls.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 3:58:04 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs. For everyone. There will be no winners here. Certainly not this kid's family. Not the fraternity. Not the fraternity brothers, whether they're found innocent or guilty. Not the Silver Serpent. Not the university. Not the administration.


Not sure how that store can be charged when you can buy this stuff legally online too.

https://www.amazon.com/nitrous-oxide/s?k=nitrous+oxide



I'm not sure, either. But they'll suffer some blowback whether they're deemed guilty or not.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/21/2019 4:00:13 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
When I was at O.U. in the 70's, some of the offices had a WATS line.

From what I remember,you paid a set fee for it and got unlimited long distance.

When people found out which offices had them,they were always trying to
sneak in to make calls.


The WATS line was available for SBH as well. But he was too straight up honest to take advantage of the free long-distance calls.



Epic. I still remember the code. But I also remember the phone numbers for Big Red Tomato Pizza, Hole in the Wall Subs and Domino's, too.

Last Edited: 11/21/2019 4:17:52 PM by SBH

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/22/2019 8:12:00 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs. For everyone. There will be no winners here. Certainly not this kid's family. Not the fraternity. Not the fraternity brothers, whether they're found innocent or guilty. Not the Silver Serpent. Not the university. Not the administration.


Not sure how that store can be charged when you can buy this stuff legally online too.

https://www.amazon.com/nitrous-oxide/s?k=nitrous+oxide



I'm not sure, either. But they'll suffer some blowback whether they're deemed guilty or not.


Raided couple months ago, both locations, took the computers and boxes and boxes out of both stores. Next day both stores were open for business and are as busy as always. College students are their business model, and they just keep on buying the products sold.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/22/2019 10:54:08 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


https://www.amazon.com/nitrous-oxide/s?k=nitrous+oxide


I was surprised they used Nitrous Oxide for whipped cream dispensers.

We had one when I was a kid,but it used Co2 cartridges.

Same thing,they now have a pressurized growler.
It uses Co2 also.


Last Edited: 11/22/2019 10:54:29 AM by rpbobcat

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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/24/2019 8:41:31 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:


https://www.amazon.com/nitrous-oxide/s?k=nitrous+oxide


I was surprised they used Nitrous Oxide for whipped cream dispensers.

We had one when I was a kid,but it used Co2 cartridges.

Same thing,they now have a pressurized growler.
It uses Co2 also.




CO2 and N2 are definitely the more popular gases for growlers/beer pressurization
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/25/2019 6:09:49 PM 
SBH wrote:
Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.


As with many other things, I don't think it's as different as it appears; we're just more aware of it. We are more knowledgeable about the development of the brain that we were even 10 years ago. 18-year-olds aren't really able to fully manage themselves and probably weren't ever able to do so; we just look back and remember the kids who were able to get by. Or perhaps colleges had more built-in systems to help students than there is now. Or maybe they weeded students out faster than they do now. I don't know.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/25/2019 7:35:32 PM 
JSF wrote:
SBH wrote:
Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.


As with many other things, I don't think it's as different as it appears; we're just more aware of it. We are more knowledgeable about the development of the brain that we were even 10 years ago. 18-year-olds aren't really able to fully manage themselves and probably weren't ever able to do so; we just look back and remember the kids who were able to get by. Or perhaps colleges had more built-in systems to help students than there is now. Or maybe they weeded students out faster than they do now. I don't know.


In a round about way you bring up an interesting point that we've discussed at our house for years and with friends. Perhaps it would be better for 18 year old high school graudates to spend two years in some sort of public service before enrolling college - 1) to be able to better manage themselves and 2) to truly benefit from what college has to offer.

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/25/2019 9:42:02 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
JSF wrote:
SBH wrote:
Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.


As with many other things, I don't think it's as different as it appears; we're just more aware of it. We are more knowledgeable about the development of the brain that we were even 10 years ago. 18-year-olds aren't really able to fully manage themselves and probably weren't ever able to do so; we just look back and remember the kids who were able to get by. Or perhaps colleges had more built-in systems to help students than there is now. Or maybe they weeded students out faster than they do now. I don't know.


In a round about way you bring up an interesting point that we've discussed at our house for years and with friends. Perhaps it would be better for 18 year old high school graudates to spend two years in some sort of public service before enrolling college - 1) to be able to better manage themselves and 2) to truly benefit from what college has to offer.


Military service is, among other things, a maturing experience. That is likely true of the Peace Corps and Vista.



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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/25/2019 11:10:14 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
JSF wrote:
SBH wrote:
Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.


As with many other things, I don't think it's as different as it appears; we're just more aware of it. We are more knowledgeable about the development of the brain that we were even 10 years ago. 18-year-olds aren't really able to fully manage themselves and probably weren't ever able to do so; we just look back and remember the kids who were able to get by. Or perhaps colleges had more built-in systems to help students than there is now. Or maybe they weeded students out faster than they do now. I don't know.


In a round about way you bring up an interesting point that we've discussed at our house for years and with friends. Perhaps it would be better for 18 year old high school graudates to spend two years in some sort of public service before enrolling college - 1) to be able to better manage themselves and 2) to truly benefit from what college has to offer.



It's not a bad idea, but I would oppose making it mandatory. There has to be many paths to get people where we want and they need to be. AmeriCorps/Peace Corps would be one. Some kids ARE ready for college right away. I just don't want 18-year-olds basically shuffled off to postsecondary education before they should be. I reckon community college is a decent way to transition young adults rather than living on campus right away.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/25/2019 11:13:01 PM 
JSF wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
JSF wrote:
SBH wrote:
Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.


As with many other things, I don't think it's as different as it appears; we're just more aware of it. We are more knowledgeable about the development of the brain that we were even 10 years ago. 18-year-olds aren't really able to fully manage themselves and probably weren't ever able to do so; we just look back and remember the kids who were able to get by. Or perhaps colleges had more built-in systems to help students than there is now. Or maybe they weeded students out faster than they do now. I don't know.


In a round about way you bring up an interesting point that we've discussed at our house for years and with friends. Perhaps it would be better for 18 year old high school graudates to spend two years in some sort of public service before enrolling college - 1) to be able to better manage themselves and 2) to truly benefit from what college has to offer.



It's not a bad idea, but I would oppose making it mandatory. There has to be many paths to get people where we want and they need to be. AmeriCorps/Peace Corps would be one. Some kids ARE ready for college right away. I just don't want 18-year-olds basically shuffled off to postsecondary education before they should be. I reckon community college is a decent way to transition young adults rather than living on campus right away.


That mandatory service thing would be soooo anti-capitalistic to go anywhere in this climate.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Pursuit of justice
   Posted: 11/26/2019 6:31:17 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
JSF wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
JSF wrote:
SBH wrote:
Today's young people need much more support and advice - you can't just dump them on a distant campus and assume they're going to make more good choices than bad. Sad state of affairs.


As with many other things, I don't think it's as different as it appears; we're just more aware of it. We are more knowledgeable about the development of the brain that we were even 10 years ago. 18-year-olds aren't really able to fully manage themselves and probably weren't ever able to do so; we just look back and remember the kids who were able to get by. Or perhaps colleges had more built-in systems to help students than there is now. Or maybe they weeded students out faster than they do now. I don't know.


In a round about way you bring up an interesting point that we've discussed at our house for years and with friends. Perhaps it would be better for 18 year old high school graudates to spend two years in some sort of public service before enrolling college - 1) to be able to better manage themselves and 2) to truly benefit from what college has to offer.



It's not a bad idea, but I would oppose making it mandatory. There has to be many paths to get people where we want and they need to be. AmeriCorps/Peace Corps would be one. Some kids ARE ready for college right away. I just don't want 18-year-olds basically shuffled off to postsecondary education before they should be. I reckon community college is a decent way to transition young adults rather than living on campus right away.


That mandatory service thing would be soooo anti-capitalistic to go anywhere in this climate.


I think mandatory service is a really interesting idea, but totally agree with this. There's 30 some odd percent of the country right now who have completely convinced themselves that civil servants are traitors running a deep state coup. The idea of garnering support for mandatory government service seems far fetched.

Not that anybody here was proposing it as anything but, but still.
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