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Topic:  RE: Three sorority's reinstated

Topic:  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 8:14:50 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I mean, isn't there a far more charitable reading of all of this -- even one that aligns entirely with your own perception -- that doesn't necessitate the conclusion that "It's apparent from the timing of OU's actions were intended to cause as much 'pain' as possible"? Isn't the much more obvious answer that the timing of the 110s suspension was a direct result of the national attention and the need to be perceived as treating all accusations equally and not unfairly singling out fraternities? The timing of the 110s suspension matched the timing of every other suspension. That's by far the obvious and likely explanation for the timing of the suspension.

But for some reason you arrive at the conclusion that it was timed to inflict as much pain as possible. You assume malice on the part of the University. Others on your side of this whole thing assume it's a conspiracy. What's behind that impulse?

As I've said, I think that impulse is driven by a desire to try and justify the outrage.


I personally believe one of the fraternities had a few members who were responsible for the allegations against the sororities, band, professional fraternities and rugby team. They were pissed at the administration and then pulled out decades old rumors and hearsay. The only 110 allegation that might have had some traction would be the parent who said their kid felt pressure to go to band parties (again. Feelings arenít suspension worthy). The rest of the 110 allegations were flat out fabricated. As mentioned previously, a sorority advisor said their attorneys were able to clear them immediately because, according to her, all their allegations were submitted from the same computer in Alden and were the same stupid rumors (such as circling fat with a sharpie) that we heard when we were in college.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 8:30:42 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I mean, isn't there a far more charitable reading of all of this -- even one that aligns entirely with your own perception -- that doesn't necessitate the conclusion that "It's apparent from the timing of OU's actions were intended to cause as much 'pain' as possible"? Isn't the much more obvious answer that the timing of the 110s suspension was a direct result of the national attention and the need to be perceived as treating all accusations equally and not unfairly singling out fraternities? The timing of the 110s suspension matched the timing of every other suspension. That's by far the obvious and likely explanation for the timing of the suspension.

But for some reason you arrive at the conclusion that it was timed to inflict as much pain as possible. You assume malice on the part of the University. Others on your side of this whole thing assume it's a conspiracy. What's behind that impulse?

As I've said, I think that impulse is driven by a desire to try and justify the outrage.


I personally believe one of the fraternities had a few members who were responsible for the allegations against the sororities, band, professional fraternities and rugby team. They were pissed at the administration and then pulled out decades old rumors and hearsay. The only 110 allegation that might have had some traction would be the parent who said their kid felt pressure to go to band parties (again. Feelings arenít suspension worthy). The rest of the 110 allegations were flat out fabricated. As mentioned previously, a sorority advisor said their attorneys were able to clear them immediately because, according to her, all their allegations were submitted from the same computer in Alden and were the same stupid rumors (such as circling fat with a sharpie) that we heard when we were in college.


Can you provide a citation for any of this?

Is there a source you can cite that shows that's how the sorority had their allegations cleared because they all came from the same computer at Alden? Or did you just hear that from somebody? Without a citation, it feels like you're just as guilty of relying on second and third hand rumors as the people you're accusing of doing the same, no?

I mean, when I was in college, a friend of mine made fake posters advertising a Hootie and the Blowfish concert at the Convo. A year later, people would claim to have gone to the concert. Another friend also dumped a box of 1000 bouncy balls onto Court Street from the alley next to whatever that Bagel Store was on Court during the time change "riots." In the Post that Monday, a student was quoted as saying they saw somebody pour them out of a garbage can from the balcony above Subway. After that, there were suddenly hundreds of witnesses who saw that. That's not what happened.

Which is all just to say, relying on things kids in Athens have heard is a risky proposition if you're trying to find the truth.


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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 8:52:06 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I mean, isn't there a far more charitable reading of all of this -- even one that aligns entirely with your own perception -- that doesn't necessitate the conclusion that "It's apparent from the timing of OU's actions were intended to cause as much 'pain' as possible"? Isn't the much more obvious answer that the timing of the 110s suspension was a direct result of the national attention and the need to be perceived as treating all accusations equally and not unfairly singling out fraternities? The timing of the 110s suspension matched the timing of every other suspension. That's by far the obvious and likely explanation for the timing of the suspension.

But for some reason you arrive at the conclusion that it was timed to inflict as much pain as possible. You assume malice on the part of the University. Others on your side of this whole thing assume it's a conspiracy. What's behind that impulse?

As I've said, I think that impulse is driven by a desire to try and justify the outrage.


I personally believe one of the fraternities had a few members who were responsible for the allegations against the sororities, band, professional fraternities and rugby team. They were pissed at the administration and then pulled out decades old rumors and hearsay. The only 110 allegation that might have had some traction would be the parent who said their kid felt pressure to go to band parties (again. Feelings arenít suspension worthy). The rest of the 110 allegations were flat out fabricated. As mentioned previously, a sorority advisor said their attorneys were able to clear them immediately because, according to her, all their allegations were submitted from the same computer in Alden and were the same stupid rumors (such as circling fat with a sharpie) that we heard when we were in college.


Can you provide a citation for any of this?

Is there a source you can cite that shows that's how the sorority had their allegations cleared because they all came from the same computer at Alden? Or did you just hear that from somebody? Without a citation, it feels like you're just as guilty of relying on second and third hand rumors as the people you're accusing of doing the same, no?

I mean, when I was in college, a friend of mine made fake posters advertising a Hootie and the Blowfish concert at the Convo. A year later, people would claim to have gone to the concert. Another friend also dumped a box of 1000 bouncy balls onto Court Street from the alley next to whatever that Bagel Store was on Court during the time change "riots." In the Post that Monday, a student was quoted as saying they saw somebody pour them out of a garbage can from the balcony above Subway. After that, there were suddenly hundreds of witnesses who saw that. That's not what happened.

Which is all just to say, relying on things kids in Athens have heard is a risky proposition if you're trying to find the truth.




Yet. Weíre doing exactly that arenít we? Relying on things kids have heard.

Again, this wasnít kids in Athens. I heard it from an advisor to a sorority. Is it hearsay? Sure. Difference is.......my allegation isnít restricting someoneís rights. Itís nothing more than talk on a bulletin board. But the allegations against those organizations look pretty fabricated. Have you actually read them?

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 8:59:22 PM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 9:40:52 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I mean, isn't there a far more charitable reading of all of this -- even one that aligns entirely with your own perception -- that doesn't necessitate the conclusion that "It's apparent from the timing of OU's actions were intended to cause as much 'pain' as possible"? Isn't the much more obvious answer that the timing of the 110s suspension was a direct result of the national attention and the need to be perceived as treating all accusations equally and not unfairly singling out fraternities? The timing of the 110s suspension matched the timing of every other suspension. That's by far the obvious and likely explanation for the timing of the suspension.

But for some reason you arrive at the conclusion that it was timed to inflict as much pain as possible. You assume malice on the part of the University. Others on your side of this whole thing assume it's a conspiracy. What's behind that impulse?

As I've said, I think that impulse is driven by a desire to try and justify the outrage.


I personally believe one of the fraternities had a few members who were responsible for the allegations against the sororities, band, professional fraternities and rugby team. They were pissed at the administration and then pulled out decades old rumors and hearsay. The only 110 allegation that might have had some traction would be the parent who said their kid felt pressure to go to band parties (again. Feelings arenít suspension worthy). The rest of the 110 allegations were flat out fabricated. As mentioned previously, a sorority advisor said their attorneys were able to clear them immediately because, according to her, all their allegations were submitted from the same computer in Alden and were the same stupid rumors (such as circling fat with a sharpie) that we heard when we were in college.


Can you provide a citation for any of this?

Is there a source you can cite that shows that's how the sorority had their allegations cleared because they all came from the same computer at Alden? Or did you just hear that from somebody? Without a citation, it feels like you're just as guilty of relying on second and third hand rumors as the people you're accusing of doing the same, no?

I mean, when I was in college, a friend of mine made fake posters advertising a Hootie and the Blowfish concert at the Convo. A year later, people would claim to have gone to the concert. Another friend also dumped a box of 1000 bouncy balls onto Court Street from the alley next to whatever that Bagel Store was on Court during the time change "riots." In the Post that Monday, a student was quoted as saying they saw somebody pour them out of a garbage can from the balcony above Subway. After that, there were suddenly hundreds of witnesses who saw that. That's not what happened.

Which is all just to say, relying on things kids in Athens have heard is a risky proposition if you're trying to find the truth.




Yet. Weíre doing exactly that arenít we? Relying on things kids have heard.

Again, this wasnít kids in Athens. I heard it from an advisor to a sorority. Is it hearsay? Sure. Difference is.......my allegation isnít restricting someoneís rights. Itís nothing more than talk on a bulletin board. But the allegations against those organizations look pretty fabricated. Have you actually read them?


The University is not relying on things kids have heard. The University is investigating a huge volume of accusations of hazing that includes first, second, and third hand witnesses. And when they find no evidence, they're acting fairly and reinstating the organizations accused. There's a huge difference between relying on accusations and investigating accusations. You're completely relying on accusations. The University is not.

And they're investigating those accusations because 11 months ago a student was literally hazed to death, and the rational course of action is to act with an abundance of caution as a result and to take allegations of hazing seriously. I get people don't like that. I get it makes a whole bunch of people very angry. I get people don't feel like it's fair. But nobody is able to argue with logic.

Meanwhile, you've literally just concocted, out of thin air, a story about a disgruntled frat boy making up accusations to stick it to the 110, Rugby Team, and dozens of other organizations. There's no evidence supporting that, it's just pure conjecture that requires a big leap from the second hand info you did hear.

Why is it that only folks on one side here keep imagining conspiracies here? It's honestly really strange. The obvious, most logical explanation makes the most sense. What's up with Americans these days, man? I feel like we're losing our collective ability to reason.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 9:48:17 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sororities reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 11:03:59 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
JSF wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?


Allow me to disabuse anyone of that notion. I support the choir wholeheartedly.


Likewise. I just lack the dedication and patience it takes to really engage in this battle.


+1
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 7:13:47 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr ... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis.


BillyTheCat has made the point repeatedly that the fraternities should have been suspended after Colin Wiant's death, as well. I think that's a totally fair point and suspect that nobody would've said much about this decision had it been undertaken then.

In fact, I'm honestly not sure what you find so disagreeable about this Editorial. Isn't a big chunk of it in full agreement with you and a whole bunch of people here? Billy has said repeatedly that the frats should have been suspended back then and doing so now is unfair.

The Post Editorial Board said the following:

Quote:

Itís shocking that a student death wonít make the university stop and address the hazing situation, but receiving complaints from more than half the fraternities about hazing will cause a full suspension.


Isn't that the exact same conclusion that Billy's reached and super similar to what you're saying? What are you so opposed to there?

rpbobcat wrote:

First off,The Post Editorial I put up uses last year's death as a backdrop for what is basically a condemnation of Greek Life.


Not sure I agree. In addition to the above points, they ended with this:

Quote:

If fraternitiesí ideals surround the notion of brotherhood, why didnít they take a stand and stop the continued act of hazing when one of their alleged brothers had passed?

Hazing is unnecessary when it comes to proving your loyalty to a group. Fraternity members need to behave in the ideals they promote. Pledges, who are usually freshmen, are easily impressionable and look up to the upperclassmen in the fraternities they want to join.

When it comes down to it, hazing should not be acceptable under any circumstances. And those who are in positions to stop it should do so immediately.


I've now quoted 85% of the piece. Where do you see the condemnation of Greek Life in that?

rpbobcat wrote:

As far as "not being as upset" about this vandalism,the Post doesn't seem upset at all.


Okay. You implied in your initial post that they should be equally upset about these two things. I don't agree. Do you, even? Do you actually think spray paint on a house and hazing are comparable and should warrant equal responses?

rpbobcat wrote:

As far as the 110,its apparent from the timing of O.U.s'actions that they were intended to cause as much "pain" as possible.


See, this is where you all lose me and start to go off the rails. You all are making plenty of valid points, as I've said many times. I, in fact, totally understand the basis of your stance. What I don't understand is the obvious anger (sorry -- "outrage") and extreme reactions. I don't understand the call for resignations, the insistence that money will never be donated again, and the impulse to assume conspiracy and malice.

I mean, isn't there a far more charitable reading of all of this -- even one that aligns entirely with your own perception -- that doesn't necessitate the conclusion that "It's apparent from the timing of OU's actions were intended to cause as much 'pain' as possible"? Isn't the much more obvious answer that the timing of the 110s suspension was a direct result of the national attention and the need to be perceived as treating all accusations equally and not unfairly singling out fraternities? The timing of the 110s suspension matched the timing of every other suspension. That's by far the obvious and likely explanation for the timing of the suspension.

But for some reason you arrive at the conclusion that it was timed to inflict as much pain as possible. You assume malice on the part of the University. Others on your side of this whole thing assume it's a conspiracy. What's behind that impulse?

As I've said, I think that impulse is driven by a desire to try and justify the outrage.

rpbobcat wrote:

I feel this whole situation was mishandled from day 1 by JHJ and,by extension,Nellis.

Yes,I am one of those who felt JHJ needs to explain her actions or go.
Still waiting for an explanation.

Their silence speaks volumes.


What don't you understand about the University's actions at this point? What haven't they explained? Further, is there any explanation that would change your mind? I suspect not. As I pointed out above, you're inclined to assume maliciousness on the University's part. What could the explain further that would move the needle for you?



First off,the tone of the Editorial was clearly anti-Greek Life.

Your posting sentences,out of context,dilutes its overall context.

As far as the Editorial itself,it made some good points,especially on the necessity of hazing.
But the title shows where The Post is coming from.

As far as how the Post treated the vandalism,its not that they didn't treat both situations equally.
Its that they didn't put out any Editorial saying the vandalism was wrong.
Something that,as has been posted before,they did with painted bed sheets.

Yes,the timing of O.U.'s actions against the 110 were meant to cause as much pain as possible to the individual members and the band as a whole.

That's apparent,down to the timing of the original press release.

I was in Athens for the Varsity Show.

I got to talk to a lot of people about the 110 situation.

I think bobcat110 sums up pretty well how the 110 members were treated,including O.U. basing their actions in part on anonymous,years old,second/third hand (hearsay) accusations.
Some of which occurred before any current member was in the 110.

It also seems that O.U. is really dragging their feet when it comes to resolving the 110 issue.

As far as an explanation from JHJ or Nellis.

From what has happened since the original suspensions were announced,its clear
that O.U. overreacted,then mishandled the situation,including violating student's free speech rights.

This falls on JHJ and Nellis.

Nellis can put out what,to me,came off as a CYA dissertation on O.U.'s budget.
But neither he or JHJ can find the time to say anything on this mess.









Last Edited: 12/5/2019 7:24:47 AM by rpbobcat

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 7:36:32 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


The University is not relying on things kids have heard. The University is investigating a huge volume of accusations of hazing that includes first, second, and third hand witnesses.



Just to be clear,by definition,a "witness" is someone who "sees an event take place,typically a crime".

Or "have knowledge of an event from personal observation or experience."

There is no such thing thing as a second or third hand witness.
That's called "hearsay".
Legally,except in extremely rare cases,its not allowed.
Why ?
In large part,because its considered unreliable.

I'd also like to see how many of the allegations were made by a non-anonymous first hand witness.



Last Edited: 12/5/2019 7:37:59 AM by rpbobcat

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 8:25:14 AM 
Bobcat110 wrote:

I personally believe one of the fraternities had a few members who were responsible for the allegations against the sororities, band, professional fraternities and rugby team. They were pissed at the administration and then pulled out decades old rumors and hearsay.


That's unfair. You don't know that to be true. I'm sure, perhaps, it is rumored by the 110 that that is what happened. No one knows that. I would not doubt someone called in bogus accusations against the 110. I would also not doubt someone called in bogus accusations against the fraternities. In the end, we have many accusations that--in my opinion--are silly, unserious "problems" (like dragging a band jacket through the dirt, or hosting a mannequin at parties).

The university's response to this has been heavy handed (again, that's my opinion). The accused should stand together, not point fingers at one another.

Last Edited: 12/5/2019 8:26:01 AM by Robert Fox

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 11:47:29 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:

I personally believe one of the fraternities had a few members who were responsible for the allegations against the sororities, band, professional fraternities and rugby team. They were pissed at the administration and then pulled out decades old rumors and hearsay.


That's unfair. You don't know that to be true. I'm sure, perhaps, it is rumored by the 110 that that is what happened. No one knows that. I would not doubt someone called in bogus accusations against the 110. I would also not doubt someone called in bogus accusations against the fraternities. In the end, we have many accusations that--in my opinion--are silly, unserious "problems" (like dragging a band jacket through the dirt, or hosting a mannequin at parties).

The university's response to this has been heavy handed (again, that's my opinion). The accused should stand together, not point fingers at one another.


Ok. We canít assert who. But someone made a deliberate attack. Hereís proof:

Three sororities received allegations at the same time from same location and the alleged events happened on the same date. Could be an anti-Greek person too:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JRTj6qaVs4Spuuqi8


For the record, I belonged to one of the fraternities that received a cease and desist. So am pro-Greek life. Just looks like someone or someones are screwing around here

Last Edited: 12/5/2019 11:59:48 AM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 12:02:48 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:

Ok. We canít assert who. But someone made a deliberate attack. Hereís proof:

Three sororities received allegations at the same time from same location and the event happened on the same date. Could be an anti-Greek person too:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JRTj6qaVs4Spuuqi8


C'mon, dude. A deliberate attack? Somebody reported things they'd heard about hazing at sororities. The university investigated -- very, very briefly -- and dismissed the accusations due to lack of evidence.

What you're doing is assuming bad faith as a means of avoiding having to acknowledge the accusations themselves. It is, interestingly, the exact same psychological trick the GOP is using with the whole Ukraine thing. Their argument is now basically that because Democrats have always had it out for Trump, the wrongdoing uncovered about Ukraine was uncovered in bad faith and therefore nobody needs to pay attention to it, even if it's true and bad. By assuming bad faith and a conspiracy, it allows you reason to fault the University for investigating at all.

That's what you're doing here. You don't think the person who submitted those complaints submitted them in good faith, so you think the University should never have examined them. Your stance is that the University should have abdicated their responsibility and ignored this completely. But what if these accusations were true? And it came out next year that the University received these complaints and did nothing? That's a far worse outcome for literally everybody involved than a week long temporary suspension.

The University, instead, looked at them and dismissed them basically immediately. Which is exactly what they should have done. They fulfilled their obligation and moved on.

This isn't evidence of some grand conspiracy or evidence of the University having been duped. It's evidence that the University followed the process they laid out and were fair in just in doing so.




Last Edited: 12/5/2019 12:07:04 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 12:21:03 PM 
JHJ tweets;

https://twitter.com/JennyHallJones/status/120232741333560...
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 1:53:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:

Ok. We canít assert who. But someone made a deliberate attack. Hereís proof:

Three sororities received allegations at the same time from same location and the event happened on the same date. Could be an anti-Greek person too:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JRTj6qaVs4Spuuqi8


C'mon, dude. A deliberate attack? Somebody reported things they'd heard about hazing at sororities. The university investigated -- very, very briefly -- and dismissed the accusations due to lack of evidence.

What you're doing is assuming bad faith as a means of avoiding having to acknowledge the accusations themselves. It is, interestingly, the exact same psychological trick the GOP is using with the whole Ukraine thing. Their argument is now basically that because Democrats have always had it out for Trump, the wrongdoing uncovered about Ukraine was uncovered in bad faith and therefore nobody needs to pay attention to it, even if it's true and bad. By assuming bad faith and a conspiracy, it allows you reason to fault the University for investigating at all.

That's what you're doing here. You don't think the person who submitted those complaints submitted them in good faith, so you think the University should never have examined them. Your stance is that the University should have abdicated their responsibility and ignored this completely. But what if these accusations were true? And it came out next year that the University received these complaints and did nothing? That's a far worse outcome for literally everybody involved than a week long temporary suspension.

The University, instead, looked at them and dismissed them basically immediately. Which is exactly what they should have done. They fulfilled their obligation and moved on.

This isn't evidence of some grand conspiracy or evidence of the University having been duped. It's evidence that the University followed the process they laid out and were fair in just in doing so.






The first, second and fourth "report" were submitted by the same person - an alumnae of a sorority. Nowhere does she cite that she witnessed the things she is asserting happened. In fact she actually states "While you're looking into the fraternities, as an OU Greek alumnae I urge you" - a simple oh by the way. Pure speculation at best and hardly enough information to warrrant an immediate suspension.

Last Edited: 12/5/2019 2:18:44 PM by Alan Swank

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 2:05:06 PM 
https://www.thecollegefix.com/ohio-university-refuses-to-... /
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 2:37:46 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Pure speculation at best and hardly enough information to warrrant an immediate suspension.



Exactly. It's the immediate suspension of ALL parties that has most of us upset. What prevented OU from investigating these accusations WITHOUT implementing suspensions?
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 2:38:56 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
https://www.thecollegefix.com/ohio-university-refuses-to-... /


Interesting. Tackett clearly overstepped. Hard to believe his letter was not cleared by his boss, JHJ.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 3:01:22 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Pure speculation at best and hardly enough information to warrrant an immediate suspension.



This would be true without the added context that 15 fraternities and a half dozen other University organizations had just been suspended for hazing. The University announced a zero tolerance policy. They stuck to it.

And we all know why they implemented that, right? Somebody died.
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 5:21:07 PM 
I find myself more in the middle ground here. I completely understand the reaction after a slew of allegations and everything that happened last year to suspend Greek operations and that of some of the other groups.

I cannot, at all, understand how the university felt it was right to disallow these individuals from then still communicating. It cannot be called a Marching 110 event, but those individuals should still have the right to hang out on their own if they choose. It doesn't need to be an ACACIA party, but if all members of the fraternity want to go to the CI, why is that not allowed?

Seems like, by suspending the fraternities and investigating, the university is doing their due diligence and has provided themselves with cover. By going even further to not allow members to associate with each other when there are no charges filed or any actual basis of fact known in the allegations, is a major overstep in the process.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with those that feel that the president has been woefully lacking in this entire endeavor. I say sadly because I want him to succeed and have had positive interactions with him. However, his silence on this matter smacks of ineffective leadership. I want a Harry Trumanesque leader who says that the buck stops with him/her. Instead, President Nellis is nowhere to be found on this matter.

Last Edited: 12/5/2019 5:21:47 PM by Kevin Finnegan

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 5:37:44 PM 
finnOhio wrote:

I cannot, at all, understand how the university felt it was right to disallow these individuals from then still communicating. It cannot be called a Marching 110 event, but those individuals should still have the right to hang out on their own if they choose. It doesn't need to be an ACACIA party, but if all members of the fraternity want to go to the CI, why is that not allowed?



I totally agree with this. I understand why -- just read the Dispatch article about how much of a struggle it was to get members of Colin Wiant's fraternity to cooperate -- but it was a stupid unforced error on the University's part.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 8:29:57 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Pure speculation at best and hardly enough information to warrrant an immediate suspension.



This would be true without the added context that 15 fraternities and a half dozen other University organizations had just been suspended for hazing. The University announced a zero tolerance policy. They stuck to it.

And we all know why they implemented that, right? Somebody died.


No, not at all. Zero tolerance has and continues to be a flawed philosphopy that started in the 80s with crack and put thousands of black folks in jail. With this president, we have stepped back into an era of oppression of constitutional rights. If you look at who is calling this a major mistake, you'll find posters of far differing perspectives united to call out a lack of executive leadership which will continue to diminish the attractiveness of OU and further declining enrollments and alumni contribtions.
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 9:28:29 PM 
https://m.facebook.com/peter.ford.7334/posts/242316423794...

ďIím extremely upset with my university. As a student at Ohio University I was physically assaulted on October 15th by a random student while on my way to a late night class. This class takes place after band rehearsal so I wear my practice uniform to this class. As I was taking the steps, a random student came by and shoved me into the railing and proceeded to yell ďf*** you hazerĒ. As I tried to stand back up and comprehend what just occurred, the student fled with his hood up so I would not see who it was. I reported this to the university and nothing has been done. Today, long after the fact, most, NOT ALL, members of the marching 110 received an email from the university. The attached photos are the email received. Essentially stating that nothing will be done, and the marching 110 members need to just suck it up, go to therapy, and finish classes. The extreme lack of support has made me lose faith in my university I used to so proudly call my home. I fear walking alone, I am discouraged from wearing my organizations apparel, and my right to freedom of speech was violated. When I attended my ďinterviewĒ that caused me to miss two of my classes, I was almost told that I was not allowed to bring an attorney. Iím disheartened by the universityís actions, but nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, will make me ashamed of wearing my band jacket. I am a proud member of the Marching 110. For the past generations, for the future generations, and for the people Iím so thankful to call my family, the Marching 110 has given me hope, inspiration, and strength. Our traditions, our perseverance, and our unity will last long after Iíve left this outstanding group of musicians.Ē

Last Edited: 12/5/2019 9:28:52 PM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 10:06:56 PM 
https://twitter.com/wiencek_timothy
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 10:10:22 PM 
https://twitter.com/MacArchives
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 10:12:45 PM 
https://twitter.com/TheKernMan
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 10:15:42 PM 
https://twitter.com/saraabear
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/5/2019 11:01:04 PM 
Told you these interrogations were going to go bad. These members had no idea what they were going in to. Theyíve stayed silent for 2 months and the university is playing games with them and turned their backs when band members have been assaulted.

They had no help. Greeks had alumni advisors, national advisors and attorneys.

FINALS START MONDAY!!!

Last Edited: 12/5/2019 11:02:13 PM by Bobcat110

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