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Topic:  RE: Three sorority's reinstated

Topic:  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 12:38:28 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Isn't the obvious answer somewhere in the middle?

Instead we're talking about the ACLU, insulting each other's parenting, calling for firings and positing conspiracy theories. Why?


Mostly because when people feel "wronged" they lash out. By the way, didn't Finn say he was a prospective parent, not yet a parent? Just clarifying. Personally, I think the 110 parent's comments above are pretty tame. He didn't seem to attack Finn personally. Clearly, he feels his daughter's do not deserve the punishment they've been given. I'd say he feels offended by the attempt at diminishing that punishment. Just a hunch. But in that, I agree with him. His daughters shouldn't be punished for something they didn't do. Nor should they be questioned about unrelated personal stuff, like whether or not they drink, etc. UNLESS, there's hard evidence that would support that line of questioning. I suspect that hard evidence is not there.


+1

Seems from the articles posted above that the ACLU is not needed, other groups have already been called in to protest the violation of students rights. Which of course seems to be o.k., for some!


From what's been posted,at least some the fraternities' and sororities' National Organizations provided some type of legal representation to address the allegations.

The 110 is part of O.U..
So they don't have a national organization to support them.

So who do they have to act as their advocate ?

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 12:47:31 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Isn't the obvious answer somewhere in the middle?

Instead we're talking about the ACLU, insulting each other's parenting, calling for firings and positing conspiracy theories. Why?


Mostly because when people feel "wronged" they lash out. By the way, didn't Finn say he was a prospective parent, not yet a parent? Just clarifying. Personally, I think the 110 parent's comments above are pretty tame. He didn't seem to attack Finn personally. Clearly, he feels his daughter's do not deserve the punishment they've been given. I'd say he feels offended by the attempt at diminishing that punishment. Just a hunch. But in that, I agree with him. His daughters shouldn't be punished for something they didn't do. Nor should they be questioned about unrelated personal stuff, like whether or not they drink, etc. UNLESS, there's hard evidence that would support that line of questioning. I suspect that hard evidence is not there.


+1

Seems from the articles posted above that the ACLU is not needed, other groups have already been called in to protest the violation of students rights. Which of course seems to be o.k., for some!


From what's been posted,at least some the fraternities' and sororities' National Organizations provided some type of legal representation to address the allegations.

The 110 is part of O.U..
So they don't have a national organization to support them.

So who do they have to act as their advocate ?



Which rights are being violated here? Is it your stance that the University isn't allowed any oversight over student conduct in University sponsored organizations?

You think the questions are inappropriate -- assuming those are even the questions, which we don't have any real insight into. But how can you investigate the allegations without understanding how members of the 110 use alcohol?

Last Edited: 12/3/2019 12:52:49 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:02:43 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


From what's been posted,at least some the fraternities' and sororities' National Organizations provided some type of legal representation to address the allegations.

The 110 is part of O.U..
So they don't have a national organization to support them.

So who do they have to act as their advocate ?



Which rights are being violated here? Is it your stance that the University isn't allowed any oversight over student conduct in University sponsored organizations?


If you read my post,I never said any rights were being violated.

What I've said is that,unlike fraternities and sororities,the 110 is a university sponsored organization.
So they don't have a national organization to assure that their rights,including the rights of individual members are not violated.

As I said,this is a quasi legal proceeding,with the fate of individual band members,as well as the 110 as a whole,in the balance.

It seems that,in the case of a university sponsored organization like the 110,O.U.'s Administration acts as investigator,judge and jury with no "checks and balances".

That's troubling given how this whole matter has been handled/mishandled since day one.

I'd like to think there is an independent third party available to advise the members of the 110 what their rights are.
But that doesn't seem to be the case.








Last Edited: 12/3/2019 1:04:17 PM by rpbobcat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:08:55 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Isn't the obvious answer somewhere in the middle?

Instead we're talking about the ACLU, insulting each other's parenting, calling for firings and positing conspiracy theories. Why?


Mostly because when people feel "wronged" they lash out. By the way, didn't Finn say he was a prospective parent, not yet a parent? Just clarifying. Personally, I think the 110 parent's comments above are pretty tame. He didn't seem to attack Finn personally. Clearly, he feels his daughter's do not deserve the punishment they've been given. I'd say he feels offended by the attempt at diminishing that punishment. Just a hunch. But in that, I agree with him. His daughters shouldn't be punished for something they didn't do. Nor should they be questioned about unrelated personal stuff, like whether or not they drink, etc. UNLESS, there's hard evidence that would support that line of questioning. I suspect that hard evidence is not there.


+1

Seems from the articles posted above that the ACLU is not needed, other groups have already been called in to protest the violation of students rights. Which of course seems to be o.k., for some!


From what's been posted,at least some the fraternities' and sororities' National Organizations provided some type of legal representation to address the allegations.

The 110 is part of O.U..
So they don't have a national organization to support them.

So who do they have to act as their advocate ?



The ACLU will not be their individual representation, if you read the article, there is a national group that has called on the University to stop surpressing the rights of the students. And it appears one of them representing the students may be an old BA poster.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:10:28 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Isn't the obvious answer somewhere in the middle?

Instead we're talking about the ACLU, insulting each other's parenting, calling for firings and positing conspiracy theories. Why?


Mostly because when people feel "wronged" they lash out. By the way, didn't Finn say he was a prospective parent, not yet a parent? Just clarifying. Personally, I think the 110 parent's comments above are pretty tame. He didn't seem to attack Finn personally. Clearly, he feels his daughter's do not deserve the punishment they've been given. I'd say he feels offended by the attempt at diminishing that punishment. Just a hunch. But in that, I agree with him. His daughters shouldn't be punished for something they didn't do. Nor should they be questioned about unrelated personal stuff, like whether or not they drink, etc. UNLESS, there's hard evidence that would support that line of questioning. I suspect that hard evidence is not there.


+1

Seems from the articles posted above that the ACLU is not needed, other groups have already been called in to protest the violation of students rights. Which of course seems to be o.k., for some!


From what's been posted,at least some the fraternities' and sororities' National Organizations provided some type of legal representation to address the allegations.

The 110 is part of O.U..
So they don't have a national organization to support them.

So who do they have to act as their advocate ?



The ACLU will not be their individual representation, if you read the article, there is a national group that has called on the University to stop surpressing the rights of the students. And it appears one of them representing the students may be an old BA poster.


From reading the article,it seems the group in question is only addressing the issue of possible violations of Free Speech,nothing else.

I'm talking about 110 members rights with their required interviews.

Last Edited: 12/3/2019 1:15:07 PM by rpbobcat

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:13:22 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

So where does that leave us? From your perspective, it seems you feel nothing can be done. An investigation is a civil rights violation and a temporary suspension punishes innocent people. The University feels differently.


I think the university should operate more precisely. Go after the incidents that are truly criminal/dangerous. (Dragging a band jacket through the mud does not qualify.) Go after the individuals who have credible accusations lodged against them. Without that evidence, you do not proceed. That does not preclude the administration from taking up concerns with band (or fraternity) leadership, as in "hey Dr. Suk, our investigation shows that there is a band tradition wherein new members have their jackets dragged through the mud as some sort of 'right of passage.' You need to put a stop to that. Or else."
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:25:05 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

So where does that leave us? From your perspective, it seems you feel nothing can be done. An investigation is a civil rights violation and a temporary suspension punishes innocent people. The University feels differently.


I think the university should operate more precisely. Go after the incidents that are truly criminal/dangerous. (Dragging a band jacket through the mud does not qualify.) Go after the individuals who have credible accusations lodged against them. Without that evidence, you do not proceed. That does not preclude the administration from taking up concerns with band (or fraternity) leadership, as in "hey Dr. Suk, our investigation shows that there is a band tradition wherein new members have their jackets dragged through the mud as some sort of 'right of passage.' You need to put a stop to that. Or else."


I want to know how you investigate an anonymous,second or third hand allegation,made years after anyone currently at O.U. could have been involved.

And even if you could,and found it to be 100% accurate,who do you punish ?


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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:35:35 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


I want to know how you investigate an anonymous,second or third hand allegation,made years after anyone currently at O.U. could have been involved.

And even if you could,and found it to be 100% accurate,who do you punish ?




Apparently, the university feels you should punish the entire band. That way it has the appearance that the university did something. CYA, anyone?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:41:54 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


I want to know how you investigate an anonymous,second or third hand allegation,made years after anyone currently at O.U. could have been involved.

And even if you could,and found it to be 100% accurate,who do you punish ?




Apparently, the university feels you should punish the entire band. That way it has the appearance that the university did something. CYA, anyone?


Winner Winner
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 1:43:03 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Isn't the obvious answer somewhere in the middle?

Instead we're talking about the ACLU, insulting each other's parenting, calling for firings and positing conspiracy theories. Why?


Mostly because when people feel "wronged" they lash out. By the way, didn't Finn say he was a prospective parent, not yet a parent? Just clarifying. Personally, I think the 110 parent's comments above are pretty tame. He didn't seem to attack Finn personally. Clearly, he feels his daughter's do not deserve the punishment they've been given. I'd say he feels offended by the attempt at diminishing that punishment. Just a hunch. But in that, I agree with him. His daughters shouldn't be punished for something they didn't do. Nor should they be questioned about unrelated personal stuff, like whether or not they drink, etc. UNLESS, there's hard evidence that would support that line of questioning. I suspect that hard evidence is not there.


+1

Seems from the articles posted above that the ACLU is not needed, other groups have already been called in to protest the violation of students rights. Which of course seems to be o.k., for some!


From what's been posted,at least some the fraternities' and sororities' National Organizations provided some type of legal representation to address the allegations.

The 110 is part of O.U..
So they don't have a national organization to support them.

So who do they have to act as their advocate ?



The ACLU will not be their individual representation, if you read the article, there is a national group that has called on the University to stop surpressing the rights of the students. And it appears one of them representing the students may be an old BA poster.


From reading the article,it seems the group in question is only addressing the issue of possible violations of Free Speech,nothing else.

I'm talking about 110 members rights with their required interviews.


Do not believe representation is allowed in these. But I do see your point, and the University will likely prey on those who are without means. The worse is you could see employment jeopardized here.
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finnOhio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 3:07:07 PM 
Why representation? Is there legal action being taken?

At a high school, if the football team did something untoward (hazing, for example), the principal would likely call in members of the team, question (or interrogate, which sounds much more loaded of a term) and dole out the punishment. Lawyers wouldn't be involved if legal action isn't being taken (arrests or the such). Why do we think that needs to be the case when handling a school matter at OHIO?

For what it's worth, yes, I'm a parent and hopefully an OHIO dad in the future. I took no offense to comments from the other dad. I feel sorry for my children enough for how I manage to embarrass them.
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 3:28:24 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I took it to mean that Finn is a parent and a hopeful OU parent. I.e. that his kids aren't yet college aged.

As for whether or not his daughters should be punished, how can you extract the individual from the organization? It seems that you're basically saying that his daughter's right to participate in the 110 and social activities that surround it supercede the University's right to suspend the organization based on their concern around the organization's behavior. It's a University run organization.

Bobcat110 feels his children don't deserve the punishment. Another parent made a complaint because her son, who didn't drink, didn't feel comfortable being part of the 110 and he felt that lack of drinking was the reason behind that.

So where does that leave us? From your perspective, it seems you feel nothing can be done. An investigation is a civil rights violation and a temporary suspension punishes innocent people. The University feels differently.

Do you really think the University's stance here is so indefensible as to rise to the level that warrants "heads rolling?"

That's all I'm really saying here. Is that isn't there a whole bunch of room in the middle here that we should all be inhabiting?


Assuming this was truly a parent who's child felt uncomfortable around alcohol...(and to clarify, there was no forced drinking in the accusation, just feelings), is it really reasonable to cease and desist organizations for two plus months and violate students' rights over feelings? It's a big organization, I'm sure when you take 250 people in any organization, someone's feelings get hurt at times. Why not start with inviting the director and parent into a meeting? Why would a parent fire off a letter to the Dean instead of talking to the Director in the first place? and what a coincidence it was one week after the fraternities were suspended and at the exact same time proven false accusations against sororities were being submitted?

Read the 110 allegations....someone was digging for rumors to try and pull the band and Sororities into the hazing suspensions. All three band allegations were submitted over 2 days the week after the fraternity fallout. "I read an anonymous report from 2017 that this happened...." and "I heard from a girl who's boyfriend in 2014, I don't remember his name...." Sororities had attorneys to dig them out of their false allegations within a couple of weeks...hell, the DZs had a reported overdose at their house on Halloween weekend and they're in the clear....there's no such advocate for the 110...they have to sit and take it for fear of heavy handed backlash against their director and staff.

I'm not sure why you're acting surprised that people are angry with the unreasonable actions of the university. Why is taking two months and counting without them being provided a course of action to clear the band from suspension? How reasonable is the university for suspending indefinitely until the Dean feels like getting around to doing the investigating? One fraternity had allegations of keeping pledges in damp basements during hell week, they've already been cleared and chapter activities restored.

Eighty percent of the band members aren't music majors, they're some amazing OU students with many in demanding majors like Chemistry, Engineering, Astro Physics, and Pre-Med. They get no scholarship money, yet put in hours upon hours in memorizing music, marching & dances. My daughters have spent Saturday nights until 4am in the Band Building practicing their music because the Monday after a home game they had to re-audition for their spots. Every Thursday night before a home game 2+ hours of practice, regular practices 5-7pm every day, sectional practices, dance practices, 8am practice on game days when most college students are still in bed. So...yes, I don't understand how a parent can truly say they'd be OK with someone stealing a semester from their kids who put that kind of heart into something because some person who has never put an ounce of effort into the band typed an allegation to the Dean. Allegations of hurt feelings and five year-old hearsay of hearsay isn't enough.

Last Edited: 12/3/2019 3:36:00 PM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 3:29:20 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
Why representation? Is there legal action being taken?

At a high school, if the football team did something untoward (hazing, for example), the principal would likely call in members of the team, question (or interrogate, which sounds much more loaded of a term) and dole out the punishment. Lawyers wouldn't be involved if legal action isn't being taken (arrests or the such). Why do we think that needs to be the case when handling a school matter at OHIO?

For what it's worth, yes, I'm a parent and hopefully an OHIO dad in the future. I took no offense to comments from the other dad. I feel sorry for my children enough for how I manage to embarrass them.


Thank you and I did not mean it to be spun into an attack on you personally.

The question regarding representation is that many of the sororities and fraternities did have representation and were able to successfully move themselves off suspension quickly as allegations were proven outright lies based on rumors around since the 1970's and other hearsay. National representatives were permitted to be advisors (Not legal counsel) for hearings.

Last Edited: 12/3/2019 5:04:35 PM by Bobcat110

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finnOhio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:02:13 PM 
What does the current suspension entail for the 110? What are the restrictions? They played halftime at the football games, right? Did they travel with the team as well? Have they participated in parades? Are there restrictions on how they can meet outside of events?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:33:01 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:

Assuming this was truly a parent who's child felt uncomfortable around alcohol...(and to clarify, there was no forced drinking in the accusation, just feelings), is it really reasonable to cease and desist organizations for two plus months and violate students' rights over feelings?


There was forced drinking in the allegation. Filed October 9th:

"The student reported they had gotten word by an anonymous source that the Marching 110 forced freshmen and new members to drink alcohol or “they would be shunned.”

The word forced is right in there. I'm sure that's what caught the University's attention in that particular report and not "feelings."

Bobcat110 wrote:

It's a big organization, I'm sure when you take 250 people in any organization, someone's feelings get hurt at times.


And in big organizations, people have vastly different experiences. What your daughters experience or perceive may differ from what another member experiences and perceives. The University has to keep all 250 safe. You're in a position to value your daughters' word as accurate; the University isn't. While you are certain these are untrue allegations and unfair, the University can't be without an investigation.

Bobcat110 wrote:

Why not start with inviting the director and parent into a meeting? Why would a parent fire off a letter to the Dean instead of talking to the Director in the first place?


I have no idea what that parent did or didn't do, nor do you. Maybe they explored other channels? Maybe their son/daughter begged them not to? I don't know. It's not really relevant any more though, because it's not what they did.

Bobcat110 wrote:

and what a coincidence it was one week after the fraternities were suspended and at the exact same time proven false accusations against sororities were being submitted?


Not a coincidence at all, actually. When issues receive publicity, people who feel victimized often times realize for the first time there's a way to report that. And they do.

Also, the accusations against the sororities weren't "proven false" -- they were dismissed due to a lack of evidence. Which is exactly what will happen with the vast majority of these accusations. That doesn't mean they didn't happen; it just means they're really hard to prove. There's a difference.

Bobcat110 wrote:

someone was digging for rumors to try and pull the band and Sororities into the hazing suspensions.


Why? There are an awful lot of people here completely convinced of this conspiracy. Why? How does this benefit the University in any way?

Bobcat110 wrote:

All three band allegations were submitted over 2 days the week after the fraternity fallout. "I read an anonymous report from 2017 that this happened...." and "I heard from a girl who's boyfriend in 2014, I don't remember his name...."


I'm not sure what when the allegations were made has to do with anything. How does it prove conspiracy that a widely publicized 'hazing hotline' received more reports after wide publicity? What else would happen?


Bobcat110 wrote:

Sororities had attorneys to dig them out of their false allegations within a couple of weeks...hell, the DZs had a reported overdose at their house on Halloween weekend and they're in the clear....there's no such advocate for the 110...they have to sit and take it for fear of heavy handed backlash against their director and staff.


Again, not false allegations. Just allegations that couldn't be proven. There's a difference.

And yeah, it's a bummer that the suspension's been longer for the 110. Not sure it rises to the level of civil rights infingement though.

Bobcat110 wrote:

I'm not sure why you're acting surprised that people are angry with the unreasonable actions of the university.


I don't think the actions were so unreasonable. And I've been very clear as to why.

Bobcat110 wrote:

Why is taking two months and counting without them being provided a course of action to clear the band from suspension? How reasonable is the university for suspending indefinitely until the Dean feels like getting around to doing the investigating?


I am not in a place to speculate about the University's investigation timeline. No idea how/why, but I suspect it's not just about "when the Dean feels like getting around to it."


Bobcat110 wrote:

One fraternity had allegations of keeping pledges in damp basements during hell week, they've already been cleared and chapter activities restored.


Yeah, I dunno about the timeline.

Bobcat110 wrote:

Eighty percent of the band members aren't music majors, they're some amazing OU students with many in demanding majors like Chemistry, Engineering, Astro Physics, and Pre-Med. They get no scholarship money, yet put in hours upon hours in memorizing music, marching & dances. My daughters have spent Saturday nights until 4am in the Band Building practicing their music because the Monday after a home game they had to re-audition for their spots. Every Thursday night before a home game 2+ hours of practice, regular practices 5-7pm every day, sectional practices, dance practices, 8am practice on game days when most college students are still in bed. So...yes, I don't understand how a parent can truly say they'd be OK with someone stealing a semester from their kids who put that kind of heart into something because some person who has never put an ounce of effort into the band typed an allegation to the Dean. Allegations of hurt feelings and five year-old hearsay of hearsay isn't enough.


That band members are committed and passionate doesn't really matter all that much, unfortunately. That doesn't mean they're not open to being investigated for wrong doing. It makes the suspension hurt more and makes people close to the situation angrier, but ultimately, it still doesn't matter.

Last Edited: 12/3/2019 5:38:25 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:34:30 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I took it to mean that Finn is a parent and a hopeful OU parent. I.e. that his kids aren't yet college aged.

As for whether or not his daughters should be punished, how can you extract the individual from the organization? It seems that you're basically saying that his daughter's right to participate in the 110 and social activities that surround it supercede the University's right to suspend the organization based on their concern around the organization's behavior. It's a University run organization.

Bobcat110 feels his children don't deserve the punishment. Another parent made a complaint because her son, who didn't drink, didn't feel comfortable being part of the 110 and he felt that lack of drinking was the reason behind that.

So where does that leave us? From your perspective, it seems you feel nothing can be done. An investigation is a civil rights violation and a temporary suspension punishes innocent people. The University feels differently.

Do you really think the University's stance here is so indefensible as to rise to the level that warrants "heads rolling?"

That's all I'm really saying here. Is that isn't there a whole bunch of room in the middle here that we should all be inhabiting?


Assuming this was truly a parent who's child felt uncomfortable around alcohol...(and to clarify, there was no forced drinking in the accusation, just feelings), is it really reasonable to cease and desist organizations for two plus months and violate students' rights over feelings? It's a big organization, I'm sure when you take 250 people in any organization, someone's feelings get hurt at times. Why not start with inviting the director and parent into a meeting? Why would a parent fire off a letter to the Dean instead of talking to the Director in the first place? and what a coincidence it was one week after the fraternities were suspended and at the exact same time proven false accusations against sororities were being submitted?

Read the 110 allegations....someone was digging for rumors to try and pull the band and Sororities into the hazing suspensions. All three band allegations were submitted over 2 days the week after the fraternity fallout. "I read an anonymous report from 2017 that this happened...." and "I heard from a girl who's boyfriend in 2014, I don't remember his name...." Sororities had attorneys to dig them out of their false allegations within a couple of weeks...hell, the DZs had a reported overdose at their house on Halloween weekend and they're in the clear....there's no such advocate for the 110...they have to sit and take it for fear of heavy handed backlash against their director and staff.

I'm not sure why you're acting surprised that people are angry with the unreasonable actions of the university. Why is taking two months and counting without them being provided a course of action to clear the band from suspension? How reasonable is the university for suspending indefinitely until the Dean feels like getting around to doing the investigating? One fraternity had allegations of keeping pledges in damp basements during hell week, they've already been cleared and chapter activities restored.

Eighty percent of the band members aren't music majors, they're some amazing OU students with many in demanding majors like Chemistry, Engineering, Astro Physics, and Pre-Med. They get no scholarship money, yet put in hours upon hours in memorizing music, marching & dances. My daughters have spent Saturday nights until 4am in the Band Building practicing their music because the Monday after a home game they had to re-audition for their spots. Every Thursday night before a home game 2+ hours of practice, regular practices 5-7pm every day, sectional practices, dance practices, 8am practice on game days when most college students are still in bed. So...yes, I don't understand how a parent can truly say they'd be OK with someone stealing a semester from their kids who put that kind of heart into something because some person who has never put an ounce of effort into the band typed an allegation to the Dean. Allegations of hurt feelings and five year-old hearsay of hearsay isn't enough.


The issue here is BLS does not feel these actions are unreasonable, and supports them wholeheartedly
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:34:46 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
What does the current suspension entail for the 110? What are the restrictions? They played halftime at the football games, right? Did they travel with the team as well? Have they participated in parades? Are there restrictions on how they can meet outside of events?


Basically, don't associate with other band members except during sanctioned band practices (Faculty member must be present) or band performances. Come to practice/performance and disburse. They were originally forbidden to even do group chats on social media. The university is isolating them so they cannot "collude stories" and thwart the interviews. The group chat punishment was determined a violation of their First Amendment rights and rescinded a few weeks ago.

They are not permitted to "hangout" together anywhere in groups more than 3 members: No walking across campus together, at the cafeteria, coffee house, bars, no social functions, no going to other members houses for dinner or to watch movies. No practicing with other members unless a faculty member is present. Our dad's weekend gathering was cancelled. They were not permitted to attend the homecoming gathering after the football game. The seniors could not even hangout together after their last Varsity (Mem Aud) performance. Basically, do your class sanctioned work (practice or performance) and disburse separately.

It may not sound like much, but most band members do not have non-band member friends. They spend 80 hours at Freshman band camp and then 25+ hours a week with band members the rest of the semester while not in class. Most upperclassmen live with other band members. My freshman daughter lives with another band member. They don't really know anyone else.

It was also a concern early in the suspension because band members were verbally attacked by other students based on the hazing allegations. Yet, they were not able to walk in groups to feel more safe. However, I have not heard of any recent attacks other than a few Greek houses being vandalized over the weekend.

One fraternity last week was placed on two year probation because some of their members celebrated a brother's birthday party at an uptown bar during their suspension.

No performances have been cancelled, as that's considered part of their class.
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:42:02 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:

Assuming this was truly a parent who's child felt uncomfortable around alcohol...(and to clarify, there was no forced drinking in the accusation, just feelings), is it really reasonable to cease and desist organizations for two plus months and violate students' rights over feelings?


There was forced drinking in the allegation. Filed October 9th:

"The student reported they had gotten word by an anonymous source that the Marching 110 forced freshmen and new members to drink alcohol or “they would be shunned.”

The word forced is right in there. I'm sure that's what caught the University's attention in that particular report and not "feelings."


The anonymous report was dated 2017. Amazing how an anonymous report from two+ years ago lands into someone's hands and they decide they are the ones to pass it on the week of October 10th, 2019?
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:48:59 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:


and what a coincidence it was one week after the fraternities were suspended and at the exact same time proven false accusations against sororities were being submitted?


Also, the accusations against the sororities weren't "proven false" -- they were dismissed due to a lack of evidence. Which is exactly what will happen with the vast majority of these accusations. That doesn't mean they didn't happen; it just means they're really hard to prove. There's a difference.


A sorority advisor said that all of the sorority allegations were traced back to the same computer in Alden ibrary.

Proven False, unsubstantiated, or lack of evidence.....however it makes you feel more comfortable saying..... you can’t deny the sororities were dismissed VERY quickly.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 5:47:05 AM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/3/2019 5:57:32 PM 
BTW. What happened to the Rugby team? They were accused of rubbing their junk all over cars. They’re no longer on the suspension list.

Are we seeing a pattern here?

Last Edited: 12/3/2019 5:59:17 PM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 5:38:42 AM 
Where does one go to find an anonymous report? Was it sitting in OU’s public records for 2 years and not acted upon? Is there an anonymous report file in Alden? Maybe found in Cutler? McDavis coverup?

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 5:59:39 AM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 6:13:16 AM 
More details from the FIRE:

“ Ohio University reverses unconstitutional directive muzzling fraternity members”

“Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Community Standards and Student Responsibility Taylor J. Tackett later ominously clarified that he expected “there to be no other communication with your members, unless it is pre-approved by me.”

https://www.thefire.org/ohio-university-reverses-unconsti... /


I don’t see how any of this is OK unless there was reasonable beliefs that students were at risk.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 6:47:35 AM by Bobcat110

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 7:01:36 AM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
More details from the FIRE:

“ Ohio University reverses unconstitutional directive muzzling fraternity members”

“Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Community Standards and Student Responsibility Taylor J. Tackett later ominously clarified that he expected “there to be no other communication with your members, unless it is pre-approved by me.”

https://www.thefire.org/ohio-university-reverses-unconsti... /


I don’t see how any of this is OK unless there was reasonable beliefs that students were at risk.


Wow. Blatant 1st amendment violation. All to try and protect his own job.Taylor J. Tackett should resign.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 7:12:11 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
More details from the FIRE:

“ Ohio University reverses unconstitutional directive muzzling fraternity members”

“Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Community Standards and Student Responsibility Taylor J. Tackett later ominously clarified that he expected “there to be no other communication with your members, unless it is pre-approved by me.”

https://www.thefire.org/ohio-university-reverses-unconsti... /


I don’t see how any of this is OK unless there was reasonable beliefs that students were at risk.


Wow. Blatant 1st amendment violation. All to try and protect his own job.Taylor J. Tackett should resign.


Our daughters in the 110 were told same thing. The only friends they have are other band members
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 8:53:07 AM 
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis.





Last Edited: 12/4/2019 9:44:03 AM by rpbobcat

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