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Topic:  RE: And now the engineers

Topic:  RE: And now the engineers
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,265

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  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/6/2019 12:57:56 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
The faux outrage by several here is laughable. Where was your outrage on this board last November when this happened? Where was your condemnation of the fraternal organizations then? Go back and look at the posting on the death, and read all that outrage that NONE of you had. Threads about Miami having destructive parties gained way more scrunity than a hazing death. The record is just a page or so down.


Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel like you've got the moral high ground here, my man.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of reaction do I need to post on the internet to be allowed to find a death bad in the future? And how soon after the death do I need to post it? Just want to make sure I'm following all of the proper steps necessary for you to find my wild "killing people is bad" viewpoint valid next time around.



Continue with your moral crusade. Again, where were you when the death occurred? Your poutrage was absent. Just because you dislike groups now you are an activist. Enjoy your moral high ground, maybe you can help pass some legislation that will end all cases like this in the future.


Yeah man, I'm an activist on a moral crusade. Either that, or I'm some dude on the internet who has an opinion that's different than yours and so, for no real reason at all, you've spent the last three weeks flailing around desperately to prove to yourself that I don't actually think what I think. One of those two things.




Funny Iíve asked you three times the question can you continue to deflect. Where was your Internet out rage one year ago when this young man passed away. Put up or shut up with your answer and move along. Answer is That you really didnít care enough to come on here and spout your moral high ground. However Now youíre a gym Baker and Pat Robertson all rolled into one how convenient



I didn't know about it. Or at least, I don't recall knowing about it. Does that make any of what I'm saying now invalid?

You, The Optimist -- you can't argue with my point on merits, so you desperately try and find a reason not to accept it as valid. Why? It's irrelevant because I haven't visited Athens in years? Or because I didn't know about the fraternity death at the time?

Again, what's that say about your stance?

Further, I directly addressed to you why I think this story has led to a greater response than the death last fall. You never replied. That was weeks ago. For some reason, you've since turned this into a personal crusade and criticized me. Read through the Rugby thread. At what point did anything I say merit your being such a dick to me, exactly?

It didn't. We simply disagreed, and you're incapable of dealing with that. It's very weird behavior, dude.


Again, takes you 11 months to find your crocodile tears. The death was national news and was posted on this board, a board you are more active on "General" topics thread than any other. No worries, you are just being selective....It's cool.


I'm cool with whatever you need to think to bring this conversation to an end. If it helps us wrap things up here, feel free to mark me down as thinking death is good, wanting what's worst for Ohio University, and being a key player in a grand conspiracy against any sort of social organization being allowed to exist at Ohio University.

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 5,644

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/6/2019 2:21:53 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
The faux outrage by several here is laughable. Where was your outrage on this board last November when this happened? Where was your condemnation of the fraternal organizations then? Go back and look at the posting on the death, and read all that outrage that NONE of you had. Threads about Miami having destructive parties gained way more scrunity than a hazing death. The record is just a page or so down.


Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel like you've got the moral high ground here, my man.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of reaction do I need to post on the internet to be allowed to find a death bad in the future? And how soon after the death do I need to post it? Just want to make sure I'm following all of the proper steps necessary for you to find my wild "killing people is bad" viewpoint valid next time around.



Continue with your moral crusade. Again, where were you when the death occurred? Your poutrage was absent. Just because you dislike groups now you are an activist. Enjoy your moral high ground, maybe you can help pass some legislation that will end all cases like this in the future.


Yeah man, I'm an activist on a moral crusade. Either that, or I'm some dude on the internet who has an opinion that's different than yours and so, for no real reason at all, you've spent the last three weeks flailing around desperately to prove to yourself that I don't actually think what I think. One of those two things.




Funny Iíve asked you three times the question can you continue to deflect. Where was your Internet out rage one year ago when this young man passed away. Put up or shut up with your answer and move along. Answer is That you really didnít care enough to come on here and spout your moral high ground. However Now youíre a gym Baker and Pat Robertson all rolled into one how convenient



I didn't know about it. Or at least, I don't recall knowing about it. Does that make any of what I'm saying now invalid?

You, The Optimist -- you can't argue with my point on merits, so you desperately try and find a reason not to accept it as valid. Why? It's irrelevant because I haven't visited Athens in years? Or because I didn't know about the fraternity death at the time?

Again, what's that say about your stance?

Further, I directly addressed to you why I think this story has led to a greater response than the death last fall. You never replied. That was weeks ago. For some reason, you've since turned this into a personal crusade and criticized me. Read through the Rugby thread. At what point did anything I say merit your being such a dick to me, exactly?

It didn't. We simply disagreed, and you're incapable of dealing with that. It's very weird behavior, dude.


Again, takes you 11 months to find your crocodile tears. The death was national news and was posted on this board, a board you are more active on "General" topics thread than any other. No worries, you are just being selective....It's cool.


I'm cool with whatever you need to think to bring this conversation to an end. If it helps us wrap things up here, feel free to mark me down as thinking death is good, wanting what's worst for Ohio University, and being a key player in a grand conspiracy against any sort of social organization being allowed to exist at Ohio University.



It just drives you bonkers. You and the crocodile tears after your agenda is haphazardly carried out. But thatís cool, you feel good.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,265

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/6/2019 2:36:23 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

In 2004 I witnessed some engineer friends haze freshman by making them run around the block in just a pocket protector. Itís institutional, need to ban them all.


BillyTheCat wrote:

In 2004 you werenít cool, still arenít. Funny, you donít seem to comment much about engineering frat being under th discipline as you did others. Just because in 2004 you guys were lame doesnít mean they still are.


BillyTheCat wrote:

Anyone see Bobcat Loveís No Shame regarding this post from 11/14 last year. Where is all the out rage when the death actually occurred. Poser!!! The guy has 1500 Post says this date and all the sudden he cares, thatís so heartwarming.


BillyTheCat wrote:

Exactly, he always comes with an agenda, and in this case if he was truly concerned heíd have carried the torch last November. Instead heís a faux social warrior.


BillyTheCat wrote:

Lack of evidence? In 2004 they hazed, I saw it, so must be real today.


BillyTheCat wrote:

In 2004, Yassir Arafat died on November 11th


BillyTheCat wrote:

BINGO and no you did not miss anything, President has been mum. , that is what most people here feel. However in 2004 Hurricane Bonnie hit Florida.



BillyTheCat wrote:

Anyone see Bobcat Loveís No Shame regarding this post from 11/14 last year. Where is all the out rage when the death actually occurred. Poser!!! The guy has 1500 Post says this date and all the sudden he cares, thatís so heartwarming.


BillyTheCat wrote:

In 1985 they had concerts in the Convocation Center, and a Chess Club Member cut in line while I was waiting for Richard Marx.


You've posted exclusively about me in this forum for like 2 weeks now.

And those are just the non-sequitur posts about me that weren't in reply to me. There are another 20 in reply to me.

But yeah dude, I'm the one who has been driven bonkers.

Last Edited: 11/6/2019 2:58:42 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: Akron (sleeper agent)
Post Count: 4,666

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/6/2019 8:03:59 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


You, The Optimist -- you can't argue with my point on merits, so you desperately try and find a reason not to accept it as valid. Why? It's irrelevant because I haven't visited Athens in years? Or because I didn't know about the fraternity death at the time?


I brought up the fact that you hadn't visited Athens in a decade because I found it ironic you characterized me as someone with no current ties to the school when in reality my time as a student was over the time-frame you've been entirely absent from campus. I think if you spoke to students today, you'd find they are quite annoyed with old-timers telling them not to do things that those same people partook in when they were their age... "Do as I say, not as I do"

I think it's pathetic the administration is trying to blame current students for the environment on campus. As you've correctly stated, this has been going on for a long, long time... It took a death for anyone to do anything, and you're going to destroy organizations a lot of current students life revolves around on campus? That's absurd. Jenny Hall-Jones, Dean of Students, oversaw the death of a student. She should resign instead of blaming current students. Shameful the adults in the administration aren't taking accountable for their (lack) of actions and are rather just sending out a bunch of legal nonsense which will change nothing just to try to cover their own asses so they don't get sued. They don't actually care about students on campus at all.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,265

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/6/2019 8:51:53 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


You, The Optimist -- you can't argue with my point on merits, so you desperately try and find a reason not to accept it as valid. Why? It's irrelevant because I haven't visited Athens in years? Or because I didn't know about the fraternity death at the time?


I brought up the fact that you hadn't visited Athens in a decade because I found it ironic you characterized me as someone with no current ties to the school when in reality my time as a student was over the time-frame you've been entirely absent from campus. I think if you spoke to students today, you'd find they are quite annoyed with old-timers telling them not to do things that those same people partook in when they were their age... "Do as I say, not as I do"

I think it's pathetic the administration is trying to blame current students for the environment on campus. As you've correctly stated, this has been going on for a long, long time... It took a death for anyone to do anything, and you're going to destroy organizations a lot of current students life revolves around on campus? That's absurd. Jenny Hall-Jones, Dean of Students, oversaw the death of a student. She should resign instead of blaming current students. Shameful the adults in the administration aren't taking accountable for their (lack) of actions and are rather just sending out a bunch of legal nonsense which will change nothing just to try to cover their own asses so they don't get sued. They don't actually care about students on campus at all.


That wasn't meant as a characterization of you, specifically. It was a sarcastic, over-the-top characterization of "old grads" insisting the kids making complaints about these organizations were over-sensitive "snowflakes" or whatever. I don't know when you were in Athens or what you do now. I replied to you only because you'd previously made sarcastic jokes about how triggering this had been for you personally. My point was that there's plenty of over-sensitivity to go around here. Before we knew any facts, there were people calling for the resignation of administrators, calling the state of the the University a disgrace, and insisting they'd never donate another dollar. This whole thing clearly triggered plenty of people, on all sides.

The irony, of course, is that those same people then made the basis of their anger the mere fact that they didn't know the content of the accusations. They were angry enough to know this was a disgrace, that administrators should resign, and that they'd never donate another dollar. But they didn't know any details, and that's why they were angry. And then when the details were released? A 10 page thread immediately petered out. There are all of 6 posts after the Post published the complaints. That's immediately following 8 pages of posts about how not publishing the accusations was fishy and pointed to an anti-frat conspiracy. And yet, basically no discussion of the accusations themselves. I find that telling. It's clear there's behavior in there that nobody supports.

Further, I still don't see how this destroyed any organizations. From the very beginning, I've heard people talk about how drastic this decision was. But thus far, we've seen organizations reinstated in a timely manner and haven't seen a single organization permanently banned. In the end, this seems to have been a well-publicized slap on the wrist. Right off the bat, I asked for people to explain why this was so drastic. I didn't get a ton in response. Maybe some lost deposits for homecoming formals. Ambiguity about whether upperclassman were allowed to live in frat houses. Alums at homecoming not having tailgates to go to. But that was the extent of it.

And that was my point from the beginning. You can go back into the original thread and take a look. All along, I've been making the point that this ultimately wasn't a drastic punishment at all, but rather was just a risk-arbitrage and that the University was particularly risk averse after last year's death. Where you and I disagree, is that I don't think that stance necessarily means the administration doesn't care about the students at all; I think you can care plenty and still make that decision. Why? Because it's hard for me to see a temporary suspension as the end of the world. I certainly don't see how any organizations have been destroyed. Instead, where we find ourselves is in a place where the University has been seen to be no-nonsense about hazing, can be viewed as proactive, mitigate their liability, and reinstate all of these organizations, which will go on doing what they've always done. I mean, it's given Billy an aneurysm, but it's not a coincidence what I saw in 2004 matched what's happening in 2019, and what rpbobcat saw in 1922 (I kid, I kid) matched what was mentioned in complaints this year. These are traditions that, dumb as they may be, aren't going anywhere. But every now and again, these organizations need to be reminded not to be idiots about it, because this behavior can have real consequences. As it did very recently in very tragic fashion.

It's a bummer for the folks who did nothing wrong. But it's just a bummer. It's not some grave injustice, and though Billy's been breathlessly insisting otherwise over the last few weeks, I never really saw anything here that warrants the vitriol towards the administration that we've seen. It was an unpopular decision, but a minor one in the scheme of things, and had the national media but picked this up, I suspect a whole bunch of people who are really angry about it never would've noticed.

Last Edited: 11/6/2019 8:56:05 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 5,644

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  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/7/2019 1:45:02 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

In 2004 I witnessed some engineer friends haze freshman by making them run around the block in just a pocket protector. Itís institutional, need to ban them all.


BillyTheCat wrote:

In 2004 you werenít cool, still arenít. Funny, you donít seem to comment much about engineering frat being under th discipline as you did others. Just because in 2004 you guys were lame doesnít mean they still are.


BillyTheCat wrote:

Anyone see Bobcat Loveís No Shame regarding this post from 11/14 last year. Where is all the out rage when the death actually occurred. Poser!!! The guy has 1500 Post says this date and all the sudden he cares, thatís so heartwarming.


BillyTheCat wrote:

Exactly, he always comes with an agenda, and in this case if he was truly concerned heíd have carried the torch last November. Instead heís a faux social warrior.


BillyTheCat wrote:

Lack of evidence? In 2004 they hazed, I saw it, so must be real today.


BillyTheCat wrote:

In 2004, Yassir Arafat died on November 11th


BillyTheCat wrote:

BINGO and no you did not miss anything, President has been mum. , that is what most people here feel. However in 2004 Hurricane Bonnie hit Florida.



BillyTheCat wrote:

Anyone see Bobcat Loveís No Shame regarding this post from 11/14 last year. Where is all the out rage when the death actually occurred. Poser!!! The guy has 1500 Post says this date and all the sudden he cares, thatís so heartwarming.


BillyTheCat wrote:

In 1985 they had concerts in the Convocation Center, and a Chess Club Member cut in line while I was waiting for Richard Marx.


You've posted exclusively about me in this forum for like 2 weeks now.

And those are just the non-sequitur posts about me that weren't in reply to me. There are another 20 in reply to me.

But yeah dude, I'm the one who has been driven bonkers.


Ohhhhh, Iím sorry so 10 months and 2 weeks after the death you decided to care. Wow! You must have been very busy picking up your legos from your room. I hope mommy is now happy.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 5,644

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/7/2019 1:46:17 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


You, The Optimist -- you can't argue with my point on merits, so you desperately try and find a reason not to accept it as valid. Why? It's irrelevant because I haven't visited Athens in years? Or because I didn't know about the fraternity death at the time?


I brought up the fact that you hadn't visited Athens in a decade because I found it ironic you characterized me as someone with no current ties to the school when in reality my time as a student was over the time-frame you've been entirely absent from campus. I think if you spoke to students today, you'd find they are quite annoyed with old-timers telling them not to do things that those same people partook in when they were their age... "Do as I say, not as I do"

I think it's pathetic the administration is trying to blame current students for the environment on campus. As you've correctly stated, this has been going on for a long, long time... It took a death for anyone to do anything, and you're going to destroy organizations a lot of current students life revolves around on campus? That's absurd. Jenny Hall-Jones, Dean of Students, oversaw the death of a student. She should resign instead of blaming current students. Shameful the adults in the administration aren't taking accountable for their (lack) of actions and are rather just sending out a bunch of legal nonsense which will change nothing just to try to cover their own asses so they don't get sued. They don't actually care about students on campus at all.


+1 and BOOM.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 5,644

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: And now the engineers
   Posted: 11/7/2019 1:47:41 AM 
On this thread alone, BLSOS has like a 10,000 word count, he probably has typed more in the last month than he did while in college.
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