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Topic:  Honors Light

Topic:  Honors Light
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  Honors Light
   Posted: 7/9/2018 7:03:59 AM 
I know this was touched on a bit last year when President Nellis first mentioned it in his Inaugural Address last October.

O.U.,is moving forward with a new "Honors" Program.

There's an article about it in The Post.

As was discussed,it seems geared for students who don't qualify for the Honors College.

The Post article uses really vague terms like "experiential" learning and participating in 14 "Academic Experiences".

The "curriculum" has 3 pathways:Engagement,Leadership and Research or Creative Activity.

It also talks about the honors components of the courses being evaluated,but not graded in a "traditional way".

As was said at the time this was first brought up,this seems like another example of "every kid gets a trophy".
Only in this case you can get "honors" on your diploma.




Last Edited: 7/9/2018 7:36:42 AM by rpbobcat

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/9/2018 8:37:33 AM 
Well, since we now have the Fake Semester System (14 weeks instead of 16 weeks), why not a Fake Honors program?


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/9/2018 8:47:42 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Well, since we now have the Fake Semester System (14 weeks instead of 16 weeks), why not a Fake Honors program?


I never knew that.

All the colleges around here are on 16 week semesters.

I thought you needed "x" amount of class time to get "x" amount of credit hours.

I wonder how they get around that ?


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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/9/2018 9:32:36 AM 
They add a few minutes to each class session and then claim itís the same amount of instructional time. While literally true, anyone who has taught college-level courses knows that itís really not equivalent. And, BTW, I was calling this the Fake Semester system way before Trump made Fake News a popular term.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/9/2018 9:37:27 AM 
I believe all Ohio state colleges are on the Fake Semester System with the possibile exception of Oxford Tech. When I asked someone there about their academic calendar I got an ambiguous answer, and I havenít had the time or inclination to research it myself.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/10/2018 9:52:10 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I believe all Ohio state colleges are on the Fake Semester System with the possibile exception of Oxford Tech. When I asked someone there about their academic calendar I got an ambiguous answer, and I havenít had the time or inclination to research it myself.


I checked. OSU is 16 weeks (start Tue Aug 21, last day of classes Wed Dec 5; + finals week ). Chicago's Safety School is 16 weeks (15 + Finals) though they start Thanksgiving break on Tuesday (I'm assuming nobody is there on Monday), so it's really 14 weeks + Finals.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/10/2018 10:37:15 AM 
OUPride wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
I believe all Ohio state colleges are on the Fake Semester System with the possibile exception of Oxford Tech. When I asked someone there about their academic calendar I got an ambiguous answer, and I havenít had the time or inclination to research it myself.


I checked. OSU is 16 weeks (start Tue Aug 21, last day of classes Wed Dec 5; + finals week ). Chicago's Safety School is 16 weeks (15 + Finals) though they start Thanksgiving break on Tuesday (I'm assuming nobody is there on Monday), so it's really 14 weeks + Finals.


Thanks for looking this up. Though I'm not in favor of emulating OSU in most things. This is one area where we should follow their lead. Back in ancient times when I was in school, we had full 16 week semesters. We switched to quarters my senior year, and the transition was anything but smooth.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/10/2018 10:40:06 AM 
Thanks, also, for explaining why I got an ambiguous answer from Butler County Finishing School.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/13/2018 8:17:23 AM 
https://www.athensmessenger.com/news/university-wide-hono...
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/13/2018 8:50:16 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
https://www.athensmessenger.com/news/university-wide-hono...


So,is there anyway to read this without paying for an Athens Messenger subscription ?


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RSBobcat
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Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/15/2018 10:28:46 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
https://www.athensmessenger.com/news/university-wide-hono...


So,is there anyway to read this without paying for an Athens Messenger subscription ?



No

But the A News and Post are free all over town....


RS Bobcat

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 2,179

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/16/2018 6:17:09 AM 
RSBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
https://www.athensmessenger.com/news/university-wide-hono...


So,is there anyway to read this without paying for an Athens Messenger subscription ?



No

But the A News and Post are free all over town....



And,for those of us who live far removed from Athens,on line . :-)
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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,268

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/16/2018 11:23:37 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
They add a few minutes to each class session and then claim itís the same amount of instructional time. While literally true, anyone who has taught college-level courses knows that itís really not equivalent. And, BTW, I was calling this the Fake Semester system way before Trump made Fake News a popular term.


What makes it not equivalent? Do you think students learn more in classes that are 4 days a week or classes that are 2 days a week but twice as long each day? Not saying you're wrong but I can't come up with any reason why it would matter if the instruction time is the same unless professors are cutting classes short (which did happen quite a bit in some of my 2-hour, 2-day-a-week classes) or assigning less work.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/16/2018 1:08:45 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
They add a few minutes to each class session and then claim itís the same amount of instructional time. While literally true, anyone who has taught college-level courses knows that itís really not equivalent. And, BTW, I was calling this the Fake Semester system way before Trump made Fake News a popular term.


What makes it not equivalent? Do you think students learn more in classes that are 4 days a week or classes that are 2 days a week but twice as long each day? Not saying you're wrong but I can't come up with any reason why it would matter if the instruction time is the same unless professors are cutting classes short (which did happen quite a bit in some of my 2-hour, 2-day-a-week classes) or assigning less work.


By adding a few minutes OCF was referring to the 5 to 10 minutes added to the 50 minute classes.

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Mike Johnson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,399

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/16/2018 1:31:50 PM 
This thread reminds me of something late professor Mel Helitzer once observed. Said he: "College seems to be the one major financial commitment a student makes and then is glad to spend as little time in class as possible."



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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 9,998

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/16/2018 9:26:51 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
They add a few minutes to each class session and then claim itís the same amount of instructional time. While literally true, anyone who has taught college-level courses knows that itís really not equivalent. And, BTW, I was calling this the Fake Semester system way before Trump made Fake News a popular term.


What makes it not equivalent? Do you think students learn more in classes that are 4 days a week or classes that are 2 days a week but twice as long each day? Not saying you're wrong but I can't come up with any reason why it would matter if the instruction time is the same unless professors are cutting classes short (which did happen quite a bit in some of my 2-hour, 2-day-a-week classes) or assigning less work.


By adding a few minutes OCF was referring to the 5 to 10 minutes added to the 50 minute classes.



Exactly! If you have a week or two less of classes, and then just add a few additional minutes to each class period and call it an equivalent amount of instruction, you are either a liar or your elevator doesn't go completely to the top. ;-)

Last Edited: 7/16/2018 9:27:14 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 346

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/17/2018 11:14:33 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
OUPride wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
I believe all Ohio state colleges are on the Fake Semester System with the possibile exception of Oxford Tech. When I asked someone there about their academic calendar I got an ambiguous answer, and I havenít had the time or inclination to research it myself.


I checked. OSU is 16 weeks (start Tue Aug 21, last day of classes Wed Dec 5; + finals week ). Chicago's Safety School is 16 weeks (15 + Finals) though they start Thanksgiving break on Tuesday (I'm assuming nobody is there on Monday), so it's really 14 weeks + Finals.


Thanks for looking this up. Though I'm not in favor of emulating OSU in most things. This is one area where we should follow their lead. Back in ancient times when I was in school, we had full 16 week semesters. We switched to quarters my senior year, and the transition was anything but smooth.


I'd certainly like to emulate their fundraising, which broke the $600M barrier for their last fiscal year.
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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,268

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/17/2018 1:16:54 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
They add a few minutes to each class session and then claim itís the same amount of instructional time. While literally true, anyone who has taught college-level courses knows that itís really not equivalent. And, BTW, I was calling this the Fake Semester system way before Trump made Fake News a popular term.


What makes it not equivalent? Do you think students learn more in classes that are 4 days a week or classes that are 2 days a week but twice as long each day? Not saying you're wrong but I can't come up with any reason why it would matter if the instruction time is the same unless professors are cutting classes short (which did happen quite a bit in some of my 2-hour, 2-day-a-week classes) or assigning less work.


By adding a few minutes OCF was referring to the 5 to 10 minutes added to the 50 minute classes.



Exactly! If you have a week or two less of classes, and then just add a few additional minutes to each class period and call it an equivalent amount of instruction, you are either a liar or your elevator doesn't go completely to the top. ;-)


But mathematically it is the same amount of instruction. I guess you're saying those 5 or 10 extra minutes at the end of a class are useless and nothing extra is accomplished compared to a class that doesn't have those extra minutes? Would it be better for classes to be maybe only 45 minutes and go about 18 weeks rather than 16 weeks with 50-minute classes?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/17/2018 8:17:23 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
. . . Would it be better for classes to be maybe only 45 minutes and go about 18 weeks rather than 16 weeks with 50-minute classes?


I suspect that it would be, but that might be stretching resources too much. There are many difficult classes with subject matter that takes time to master. I remember when we switched from the semester system to the quarter system many professors, particularly in the humanities and languages, said that it was much more difficult to successfully teach students their subject in ten weeks versus the former 16 weeks, despite in some cases the same amount of instructional time.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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UpSan Bobcat
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Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,268

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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/17/2018 9:28:24 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
. . . Would it be better for classes to be maybe only 45 minutes and go about 18 weeks rather than 16 weeks with 50-minute classes?


I suspect that it would be, but that might be stretching resources too much. There are many difficult classes with subject matter that takes time to master. I remember when we switched from the semester system to the quarter system many professors, particularly in the humanities and languages, said that it was much more difficult to successfully teach students their subject in ten weeks versus the former 16 weeks, despite in some cases the same amount of instructional time.



Like you said, depending on the subject, having longer or shorter classes may be better. I think it certainly would be very hard for professors to adjust if they are used to one length and then classes are changed. Like I was eluding to earlier, when I had classes that were two hours a day but just two days a week, I feel like we typically learned less than in a four-day, one-hour class because classes often got cut way short and I don't think professors necessarily doubled assignments between each class. I'm guessing this probably is even truer of summer classes with such long classes and a short session.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Honors Light
   Posted: 7/18/2018 6:47:57 AM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
. . . Would it be better for classes to be maybe only 45 minutes and go about 18 weeks rather than 16 weeks with 50-minute classes?


I suspect that it would be, but that might be stretching resources too much. There are many difficult classes with subject matter that takes time to master. I remember when we switched from the semester system to the quarter system many professors, particularly in the humanities and languages, said that it was much more difficult to successfully teach students their subject in ten weeks versus the former 16 weeks, despite in some cases the same amount of instructional time.





Like you said, depending on the subject, having longer or shorter classes may be better. I think it certainly would be very hard for professors to adjust if they are used to one length and then classes are changed. Like I was eluding to earlier, when I had classes that were two hours a day but just two days a week, I feel like we typically learned less than in a four-day, one-hour class because classes often got cut way short and I don't think professors necessarily doubled assignments between each class. I'm guessing this probably is even truer of summer classes with such long classes and a short session.


I was at O.U. during the quarter era.
Most science and engineering classes went for a full year.
They were just broken down into 3 sections,instead of 2 under a semester system.

Those classes were all three days a week,plus either a lab or, for larger classes, a once a week "small group",I forget what they called it,class with a grad student to go over specific problems.

I took one technical class (Land Surveying) during the Summer.
The pace was brutal,class 4 nights a week,with a minimum of 2 tests and 2 labs.

I had been doing land surveying during summers and breaks since I was in 8th grade.
But,at the time, N.J.required 1 year of college level surveying classes to take the Land Surveyor's Licensing Exam so I didn't have a choice.
If I didn't have the background in the field,I don't know if I would have passed.




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