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We all need to coalesce around President Putin, the uneducated have figured it out, now the educated must follow. Given that this thread is headed toward "Siberia", that's actually appropriate. Two days early on the prediction! Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/22/2017 5:18:25 PM  L.C. wrote: Getting the thread back towards where it started, one thing I see is something that is a rather common misunderstanding of Christianity. Some people think that Christians believe they are morally superior. I would argue that the reverse is true, that Christians recognize that they are morally imperfect, and that therefore they need a savior. Is Bill O'Reilly really a Christian? I have no idea. Certainly his behavior doesn't make it appear so. There don't seem to be any signs of remorse, any recognition of his wrongs, nor any attempt to reform. I tend to think he is just scum, but that's not my business. I've never watched the man's show in any case. Next, about ORU, and their "test", I think that everyone here hopes that every Ohio coach, in every sport, makes some effort at evaluating the character of potential recruits. No one wants to read about athletes in the crime blotter. I have my doubts whether the ORU test will be effective, but if it works for them, I have no problem, since ORU is a private religious institution. Christians are indeed saved by grace and not morally superior. Only, God knows what is in the hearts of men. Christian schools should be a beacon of light through their love. We can't judge Oral Roberts president because we all get attaked and fall short, just like Bill O'Reilly. We do need to be truthful and not flatter one another. We live in a fallen word. I just watched the blind side again and to think that someone like Michael Oher had his own bed until he was adopted by the Tuohy's, yet we find money for wars and tax cuts. Michael Oher had no choice on what his race would be and who his parents would be, so I get a little fired up sometimes. I apologize if I offended anyone. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/24/2017 11:59:40 AM  Still pressed for time, allen, so this will be relatively brief, but let me note that your cut and paste from Wikipedia is full of notes that "citation is needed." In other words, a good deal of the information is probably no better than hearsay. You might be interested in my personal experience with Ken Blackwell. Back when he was the state treasurer, I was able to secure his services as the keynote speaker at the Emancipation Celebration in Gallipolis, Ohio, which is the oldest continuous celebration of the EP, dating back to a celebration on Sept. 22, 1863, the first anniversary of the preliminary proclamation. I've been involved with the Gallipolis event for about 20 years and in that time have been instrumental in scheduling about ten of their keynote speakers, including President McDavis one year. But, I digress . . . when Blackwell spoke he did a masterful job of talking about his own family's history from slavery through Reconstruction and Jim Crow. He talked a lot about his faith and intertwined a number of relevant biblical quotes into his talk. He talked about how important Christian faith had been in the struggle for freedom and civil rights. It was a very masterful talk and many in attendance said it was the best keynote address they had heard at this event over the years. I tell you this so that you can get a little better sense of the man than you might see from a distance. Now, I'm not saying the Blackwell hasn't made some mistakes in his political career, or that he is above criticism. What I'm saying is that the man has a good heart and that he's trying his best to improve the lot of all Americans. You can disagree with his approach and his solutions to problems, but I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt on his sincerity. His campaign for governor was not well organized and you can criticize him for some of the mudslinging that went on, but to say he is a "sell out" is just not accurate at all, IMHO. Let me note, finally, that he won the GOP primary and that many folks all over the state who "didn't look like him" voted for him to be their standard bearer over people who did "look like them." The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/24/2017 1:23:29 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: Still pressed for time, allen, so this will be relatively brief, but let me note that your cut and paste from Wikipedia is full of notes that "citation is needed." In other words, a good deal of the information is probably no better than hearsay. You might be interested in my personal experience with Ken Blackwell. Back when he was the state treasurer, I was able to secure his services as the keynote speaker at the Emancipation Celebration in Gallipolis, Ohio, which is the oldest continuous celebration of the EP, dating back to a celebration on Sept. 22, 1863, the first anniversary of the preliminary proclamation. I've been involved with the Gallipolis event for about 20 years and in that time have been instrumental in scheduling about ten of their keynote speakers, including President McDavis one year. But, I digress . . . when Blackwell spoke he did a masterful job of talking about his own family's history from slavery through Reconstruction and Jim Crow. He talked a lot about his faith and intertwined a number of relevant biblical quotes into his talk. He talked about how important Christian faith had been in the struggle for freedom and civil rights. It was a very masterful talk and many in attendance said it was the best keynote address they had heard at this event over the years. I tell you this so that you can get a little better sense of the man than you might see from a distance. Now, I'm not saying the Blackwell hasn't made some mistakes in his political career, or that he is above criticism. What I'm saying is that the man has a good heart and that he's trying his best to improve the lot of all Americans. You can disagree with his approach and his solutions to problems, but I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt on his sincerity. His campaign for governor was not well organized and you can criticize him for some of the mudslinging that went on, but to say he is a "sell out" is just not accurate at all, IMHO. Let me note, finally, that he won the GOP primary and that many folks all over the state who "didn't look like him" voted for him to be their standard bearer over people who did "look like them." You know that I respect you. I respect Blackwell's faith, I believe we share the same faith. I just believe that as a black GOP member, you have to stand against racism within your party, like the Tim Scott in South Carolina does. I as a black man could never write an article for Breitbart, that is like assiting the KKK. I have an uncle who is a very influential person within the GOP, he was recently considered for secretary of the Navy, I told him the same thing. I can't take Carson seriously when he says that Arfican-Americans came here as immigrants and when he declines a (Surgeon General) position because he said he had no government experience, after he ran for president, lol. He was selling books. I thank you for being fair minded and real, but I don't believe that I am being irrational in my thoughts on these two gentlemen. On the citation, you caught me, lol. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/24/2017 2:48:31 PM  I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about these men. Perhaps, I'll revisit this later, but for now I think I'll just leave it as a friendly disagreement. Perhaps, future developments will prove one of us right in our assessments. BTW, I'm not sure if I told you, but though I'm a white guy, I now have a 2-year-old granddaughter who is part African American as my youngest daughter married a black guy. We've had a number of interesting family discussions about race issues when we get together for family gatherings. Our son-in-law's father, Ron, who spent his first three years of college at Howard, has been very open about the discrimination he faced growing up in Louisville, Ky. I had to know him for awhile, though, before he would open up and talk about these things. I'll end with this lighthearted statement. When I did a DNA study for genealogical purposes it came back that I'm .3 percent African. Since then, Ron greets me as "Bro!" The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,064 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/24/2017 4:16:44 PM  Just keep in mind, Allen, that two people could have the same goals, but honest differences of opinion about how best to get there. Just because you disagree on policy with someone does not mean that the other person is evil, or has sold out. In today's world of black and white, or left and right, or liberal and conservative, it's all too easy to see things in terms of absolutes, or to think that one view is as always right, and the other one always wrong. I tend to avoid political discussions precisely because everyone seems to approach them with a closed mind, unwilling to consider alternative perspectives. Will it always be like this? I hope not. It hasn't always been like this. I've had many fruitful discussions over the years with people who had other perspectives. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/24/2017 4:46:15 PM  L.C. wrote: Just keep in mind, Allen, that two people could have the same goals, but honest differences of opinion about how best to get there. Just because you disagree on policy with someone does not mean that the other person is evil, or has sold out. In today's world of black and white, or left and right, or liberal and conservative, it's all too easy to see things in terms of absolutes, or to think that one view is as always right, and the other one always wrong. I tend to avoid political discussions precisely because everyone seems to approach them with a closed mind, unwilling to consider alternative perspectives. Will it always be like this? I hope not. It hasn't always been like this. I've had many fruitful discussions over the years with people who had other perspectives. +1 The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/24/2017 5:22:50 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: L.C. wrote: Just keep in mind, Allen, that two people could have the same goals, but honest differences of opinion about how best to get there. Just because you disagree on policy with someone does not mean that the other person is evil, or has sold out. In today's world of black and white, or left and right, or liberal and conservative, it's all too easy to see things in terms of absolutes, or to think that one view is as always right, and the other one always wrong. I tend to avoid political discussions precisely because everyone seems to approach them with a closed mind, unwilling to consider alternative perspectives. Will it always be like this? I hope not. It hasn't always been like this. I've had many fruitful discussions over the years with people who had other perspectives. +1 I agree that there are different perspectives. I hate looking politics through the black or white lenses. I have a Jewish brother in law, he hates fluoride, because of how it was used in concentration camps. Even though he was never in a concentration camp, he still is touched by it and criticizes me for not using filtered water to brush my teeth or using fluoride toothepaste. I don't think I am being irrational for calling somebody a sellout for writing articles for a company that call his race monkeys, etc. I could be a republican, but they would have to drop the bias against people that look like me. What makes me different? How can I believe you are with me if you disrespect my race? There are republicans like Tim Scott that call it out and I respect him. For me, the racism and socioecomic policies separate me from the GOP. I respect black GOP members as long as they ackowledge that there party needs. to change. I am an independent, I have voted for a republican before. My uncle got a hand-wriiten letter from Ronald Reagan on his one hendredth birthday, ironically Maxine Water's read the letter at his party. My unlce lived in California and followed Reagan from the time that he was governor, my uncle died in the 90's. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top ou79 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 644 Status: Offline     RE: TOS to Oral Roberts    Posted: 4/28/2017 3:04:06 PM  On an unrelated note but to bring this thread back to its original intent, ORU is expected to name Baylor Assistant Coach Paul Mills as their new Head Coach. Ok, back to your discussion. 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