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Topic:  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services

Topic:  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/27/2016 1:54:24 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
Scott Woods wrote:
Why aren't trains autonomous? Takes too long to stop? Seems like they'd be easier to make driver-less, but I know nothing about the technology.


Actually many rapid transit systems around the world have some level of automation. Systems like the Copenhagen Metro don't have drivers at all. The automated system can actually stop the train much better than a human driver and allows for shorter headways between trains. That is, when the stops are expected. It's the sudden, unexpected stops that the automated system is bad at. A car stuck on the tracks, for example. That's one reason that longer, at-grade, commuter routes need to have drivers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_met...


If I remember my Urban Mass Transit classes correctly,the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) system uses a lot of automation.

I believe the train operator is there pretty much "just in case",including emergency stops.




Last Edited: 9/27/2016 3:04:19 PM by rpbobcat
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/27/2016 4:54:14 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I honestly just don't understand what you're so scared of. I mean, I know that conservatism is actually just fear (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/2011... ). But I'm honestly just baffled as to what has you so riled up about this particular technological advancement.


Hmmmm... Here's my list of my random thoughts...

1. Everyone who thinks this is a great idea will not be so happy when their driverless car tops out at the pedestrian speed limit and it takes many more hours to get to Myrtle Beach.

2. Those who keep their human controlled cars will face astronomical auto insurance costs. Like, fuhgetaboutit costs.

3. We will not be able to replace jobs lost to AI and will fall into the un-united dystopian states of America.... Unless I can figure out how to send someone back in time to kill the robots.... Hmmmm.... this could be a good movie... Oh, wait...

4. Real men drive. (And realer men drive stick shifts.)

5. Does this mean I'm gonna have to talk to my wife and/or kids during road trips?

6. Also, I keep waiting for a reason for this to happen that actually makes sense to me. The only thing so far is "it will save lives". Which, I kinda doubt. It won't save me $. But, it probably will increase profits for someone else. And I surely don't care about that.

7. After guns, cars are probably what America loves the most. Good luck taking those away....

8. Get a horse!










Last Edited: 9/27/2016 4:55:15 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/27/2016 8:15:48 PM 
Do automated systems fall asleep or have endangering habits such as drugs or do they misattention due to cellphone usage?

Although, should power system or other usage-outage break down on any automated systems occur, you could have a problem there.





In which I prove that I have my M.O.


Where's the band?!
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/28/2016 8:33:11 AM 
Ohio69, if you think there haven't been any reasons for this laid out other than it will save lives, you clearly didn't read the whole thread.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/30/2016 10:09:37 AM 
I don't know how much publicity the N.J. Transit train crash in Hoboken got in Ohio.

Out here there has been non-stop,wall to wall coverage.

One thing that's been mentioned on this thread is driverless trains.

No question it would be costly.

Why do I bring it up ?
N.J.Transit hasn't even spent the money to put in a Positive Train Control System (PTC) to automatically brake its trains.

If a PTC system was in place,odds are,no crash yesterday.

If they won't spring for that,I can't see them even considering spending the money to make their trains driverless,even if the technology is available.
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OUs LONG Driver
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/30/2016 11:34:22 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


If they won't spring for that,I can't see them even considering spending the money to make their trains driverless,even if the technology is available.



From what I heard yesterday I believe PTC is required by law on all trains by a deadline in the near future (didn't hear the date). It was also reported that NJ has not completed a single bit of infrastructure for that upgrade to date.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/30/2016 11:53:16 AM 
OUs LONG Driver wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


If they won't spring for that,I can't see them even considering spending the money to make their trains driverless,even if the technology is available.



From what I heard yesterday I believe PTC is required by law on all trains by a deadline in the near future (didn't hear the date). It was also reported that NJ has not completed a single bit of infrastructure for that upgrade to date.


From what I've read,the original deadline for passenger trains and trains that handle hazardous materials to have PTC's installed was 12/15.
That was extended until 12/18.
But,you can get an additional 2 year extension beyond that date.

About an hour after I made my first post on this I heard a news report about PTC's.
According to that report,stopping a train approaching a station is not one of the listed purposes of a P.T.C.

I checked several R.R. web sites,as well as the Federal Railroad Administration.
Sure enough,no mention about using PTC's to stop a train coming into a station.
Got a feeling that will change.

N.J. Transit is supposed to have system to slow trains.
Again,don't know if that system includes stations.

Quirk of fate.
One of my friends takes that train to work everyday.
She took yesterday off.

Last Edited: 9/30/2016 12:06:45 PM by rpbobcat
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/30/2016 12:19:24 PM 
Our investment in public transportation is abysmal compared to other countries. Even NJ, which is the most densely populated state in the country, and has an extensive rail network (at least in the north, hi Atlantic City line!) spends very little. Since the solution to congestion is always "add another lane!" one day I imagine the Jersey Turnpike will be so wide it'll stretch from Trenton to Freehold.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/30/2016 1:22:57 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
Our investment in public transportation is abysmal compared to other countries. Even NJ, which is the most densely populated state in the country, and has an extensive rail network (at least in the north, hi Atlantic City line!) spends very little. Since the solution to congestion is always "add another lane!" one day I imagine the Jersey Turnpike will be so wide it'll stretch from Trenton to Freehold.


Unfortunately,most of the rail network in North Jersey is for freight.
So far,none of the efforts to add passenger service on those lines have been successful.

There are very limited options for passenger rail travel.

Same with buses.
The only mass transit in North Jersey, that functions even remotely efficiently,are the buses to and from the city.
Except at rush hour.
Bus routes are also pretty much limited to urban areas.

Right now the only practical way to get around is drive.

I use the Turnpike a lot.
Finally having 6 lanes minimum in each direction from its northerly terminus past exit 6 has really helped with congestion.

Only exception,don't try to go South on the Turnpike or Parkway on Friday afternoons in the summer!

Last Edited: 9/30/2016 1:23:28 PM by rpbobcat
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/30/2016 2:11:57 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
Our investment in public transportation is abysmal compared to other countries. Even NJ, which is the most densely populated state in the country, and has an extensive rail network (at least in the north, hi Atlantic City line!) spends very little. Since the solution to congestion is always "add another lane!" one day I imagine the Jersey Turnpike will be so wide it'll stretch from Trenton to Freehold.


Unfortunately,most of the rail network in North Jersey is for freight.
So far,none of the efforts to add passenger service on those lines have been successful.

There are very limited options for passenger rail travel.

Same with buses.
The only mass transit in North Jersey, that functions even remotely efficiently,are the buses to and from the city.
Except at rush hour.
Bus routes are also pretty much limited to urban areas.

Right now the only practical way to get around is drive.

I use the Turnpike a lot.
Finally having 6 lanes minimum in each direction from its northerly terminus past exit 6 has really helped with congestion.

Only exception,don't try to go South on the Turnpike or Parkway on Friday afternoons in the summer!



I should clarify that I meant extensive by American standards. Yes, I agree, it is very limited in the grand scheme of things.

I've done south on the Turnpike and Parkway on Friday afternoons. It is indeed an ugly experience. I've also spent many a Friday afternoon on the AC Expressway. Also, not great. I almost exclusively use the NJ Transit AC Line to get to AC now.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/1/2016 12:52:55 PM 
In L.A., adding more lanes to freeways eases congestion...too often lasting for a while until the traffic grows to a situation of traffic jammage all over again.

Seems to me that lack of public transportation and the resultant almost constant horrific traffic is why L.A. will never be a world class city. Contrast NYC and Paris with their pretty solid transit systems.

I used to live in the North Hollywood area of L.A. When talk came up of extending one of the rapid transit lines, most people in the area were NIMBY against it. I couldn't understand how they could not see that public transportation nearby would only increase their home values.


[Of course, they changed the name from North Hollywood (well, at least parts of it) to Valley Village--surely that made the area more attractive all by itself.]



Who names a city or area as a directional offshoot of another city or area?!!







Last Edited: 10/1/2016 12:56:12 PM by Monroe Slavin

Where's the band?!
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/1/2016 2:01:38 PM 
Updating public transit requires public money, something many politicians and people are staunchly against.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/1/2016 5:07:34 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Updating public transit requires public money, something many politicians and people are staunchly against.


Plus many Americans like to park their car as close to the front door of wherever they are going including in handicap zones when they aren't handicapped. Ever notice how all the "handicapped" people in the world go shopping when it rains.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/7/2016 7:11:57 AM 
There's an interesting article in today's (10/7) The Post about how Athens has no plans to increase their parking stock.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/7/2016 9:00:53 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Ohio69, if you think there haven't been any reasons for this laid out other than it will save lives, you clearly didn't read the whole thread.


Don't confuse disagreement with lack of comprehension.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/7/2016 9:03:17 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
There's an interesting article in today's (10/7) The Post about how Athens has no plans to increase their parking stock.


http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2016/10/parking-prob...


Wait -- Where are they gonna put the farmer's market ?

Some of the comments on parking and creating a more walk/bike friendly uptown are pretty unrealistic to me. "Bike friendly" and "walk friendly" are lies we tell ourselves. I have a good friend who would tell me about bike friendly cities. I'd ask how he got to them. He drove car. Paid to park right in the city. Then biked around....

I don't have an answer either though. There are always spots available in the city parking garage. But, you gotta pay to park.

The one thing uptown has going for it is East State street sucks.





Last Edited: 10/7/2016 9:20:12 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/11/2016 11:06:52 AM 
Ohio69 wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
There's an interesting article in today's (10/7) The Post about how Athens has no plans to increase their parking stock.


http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2016/10/parking-prob...


Wait -- Where are they gonna put the farmer's market ?

Some of the comments on parking and creating a more walk/bike friendly uptown are pretty unrealistic to me. "Bike friendly" and "walk friendly" are lies we tell ourselves. I have a good friend who would tell me about bike friendly cities. I'd ask how he got to them. He drove car. Paid to park right in the city. Then biked around....

I don't have an answer either though. There are always spots available in the city parking garage. But, you gotta pay to park.

The one thing uptown has going for it is East State street sucks.




They exist. I live in Philly and don't own a car. I get to businesses on foot and by bicycle. If I can't get there by bike I'm probably not going there. That was the case when I was a student at OU too. Most Court Street businesses count on foot traffic, not car traffic, to survive.

And the lady who said she drives around for a half hour to find a spot on Court Street is ridiculous. When I visit Athens I park on a residential street for free and walk five minutes to Court Street. It has NEVER been an issue. In a half hour you could walk from one end of Athens to the other and back.

I do agree that the requirement to provide a spot for every tenant is silly. Most students living uptown do not own cars and if they do they keep them stored in a lot and not actually at their residence.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/11/2016 3:18:27 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
Ohio69 wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
There's an interesting article in today's (10/7) The Post about how Athens has no plans to increase their parking stock.


http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2016/10/parking-prob...


Wait -- Where are they gonna put the farmer's market ?

Some of the comments on parking and creating a more walk/bike friendly uptown are pretty unrealistic to me. "Bike friendly" and "walk friendly" are lies we tell ourselves. I have a good friend who would tell me about bike friendly cities. I'd ask how he got to them. He drove car. Paid to park right in the city. Then biked around....

I don't have an answer either though. There are always spots available in the city parking garage. But, you gotta pay to park.

The one thing uptown has going for it is East State street sucks.




They exist. I live in Philly and don't own a car. I get to businesses on foot and by bicycle. If I can't get there by bike I'm probably not going there. That was the case when I was a student at OU too. Most Court Street businesses count on foot traffic, not car traffic, to survive.

And the lady who said she drives around for a half hour to find a spot on Court Street is ridiculous. When I visit Athens I park on a residential street for free and walk five minutes to Court Street. It has NEVER been an issue. In a half hour you could walk from one end of Athens to the other and back.

I do agree that the requirement to provide a spot for every tenant is silly. Most students living uptown do not own cars and if they do they keep them stored in a lot and not actually at their residence.


Well, I get what you are saying. But, if Philly bike friendly? Or, do you just ride a bike? Been about 4 years since I've been to Philly. I don't recall any special stuff for bikes, but I was walking... wish I had a bike.... Lot to see downtown.... Brewerytown to Franklin Square and back...





Last Edited: 10/11/2016 3:19:37 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/12/2016 7:52:15 AM 
Biking around a city, as a tourist in the summer, is workable.

Its not really reliable as transportation gets tough.
There are many more bad (cold,rainy,windy,snowy) days then good.

I can't speak for Philly,but in NYC ,after a snow or ice storm you couldn't use a bike for days.
And the wind tunnel effect form the "canyons" will, at times knock, you off your feet,let alone a bike.

The inability to use a bicycle much of the year is one of the reasons Citi Bike is having problems.

I was an avid cyclist.
But, after getting clocked a few times,in broad daylight, by motorists who weren't paying attention to their driving,I gave up riding on the streets.
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/12/2016 9:10:44 AM 
Ohio69 wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
Ohio69 wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
There's an interesting article in today's (10/7) The Post about how Athens has no plans to increase their parking stock.


http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2016/10/parking-prob...


Wait -- Where are they gonna put the farmer's market ?

Some of the comments on parking and creating a more walk/bike friendly uptown are pretty unrealistic to me. "Bike friendly" and "walk friendly" are lies we tell ourselves. I have a good friend who would tell me about bike friendly cities. I'd ask how he got to them. He drove car. Paid to park right in the city. Then biked around....

I don't have an answer either though. There are always spots available in the city parking garage. But, you gotta pay to park.

The one thing uptown has going for it is East State street sucks.




They exist. I live in Philly and don't own a car. I get to businesses on foot and by bicycle. If I can't get there by bike I'm probably not going there. That was the case when I was a student at OU too. Most Court Street businesses count on foot traffic, not car traffic, to survive.

And the lady who said she drives around for a half hour to find a spot on Court Street is ridiculous. When I visit Athens I park on a residential street for free and walk five minutes to Court Street. It has NEVER been an issue. In a half hour you could walk from one end of Athens to the other and back.

I do agree that the requirement to provide a spot for every tenant is silly. Most students living uptown do not own cars and if they do they keep them stored in a lot and not actually at their residence.


Well, I get what you are saying. But, if Philly bike friendly? Or, do you just ride a bike? Been about 4 years since I've been to Philly. I don't recall any special stuff for bikes, but I was walking... wish I had a bike.... Lot to see downtown.... Brewerytown to Franklin Square and back...




Philly has made a concerted effort to become much more bike friendly over the last five years or so. We've expanded bike lanes and trails throughout the city. On Pine and Spruce, two main east-west routes through Center City, we've removed one car lane (each used to be two one-way lanes in opposite directions) from each so now they are both one car lane and one bike lane. We've done similar things on north-south numbered streets. The result has been a huge jump in biking and a reduction in traffic congestion. We also implemented our own bike share system like many other cities have, which has been enormously popular. Also, the Schuylkill River trail was named the number one urban bike trail in the country.

You should check out Philly again! Lots going on and lots has changed in four years.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/12/2016 9:14:27 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Biking around a city, as a tourist in the summer, is workable.

Its not really reliable as transportation gets tough.
There are many more bad (cold,rainy,windy,snowy) days then good.

I can't speak for Philly,but in NYC ,after a snow or ice storm you couldn't use a bike for days.
And the wind tunnel effect form the "canyons" will, at times knock, you off your feet,let alone a bike.

The inability to use a bicycle much of the year is one of the reasons Citi Bike is having problems.

I was an avid cyclist.
But, after getting clocked a few times,in broad daylight, by motorists who weren't paying attention to their driving,I gave up riding on the streets.



A good transit system comes in handy on those rough weather days. I have my own bike and I use the bike share system (called Indego in Philly) but from December through February I find myself opting to take the subway more often, or grab an Uber. I still keep the Indego membership during those months though because I still use it on nice days.

I've been doing this for a few years now and I've never been clocked yet, but I have had a few close calls. The addition of miles and miles of bike lanes throughout the city has really helped with safety. It's now obvious to drivers that bikes have a right to be on the road too.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/13/2016 10:09:00 AM 
Interesting article. Thoughts?

http://www.realclearfuture.com/articles/2016/10/13/how_no...
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/13/2016 10:57:45 AM 
Good article. Impressed that this thread brought up much of the same material.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/13/2016 12:43:50 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:


And the lady who said she drives around for a half hour to find a spot on Court Street is ridiculous. When I visit Athens I park on a residential street for free and walk five minutes to Court Street. It has NEVER been an issue. In a half hour you could walk from one end of Athens to the other and back.



Survival of the fittest.

Can't fit your car in that tight parallel spot? I'll take it. (Oh yeah, that's already automated if you can afford it too...)

I've seen crazier things happen.

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/13/2016 12:46:46 PM 
mf279801 wrote:
Interesting article. Thoughts?

http://www.realclearfuture.com/articles/2016/10/13/how_no...


Quote:
The average person today has a commute to work of about 25 minutes. We can assume that this represents the average amount of time people are willing to give up out of their lives for daily travel. But what if your commute time becomes recreation time, or game time, or family time, or work time? Would people be more willing to, say, live much farther out of town—where houses are cheaper and yards are more spacious—and enjoy a nice, leisurely hour-long commute? And when it comes to travel for pleasure, I suspect you would be more willing to drive two hours on a daytrip if you didn't actually have to do the driving.

I've given much thought to this. INTERESTING ramifications. Invest wisely!

I've seen crazier things happen.

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