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Topic:  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services

Topic:  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 3/29/2018 6:56:18 AM 
DelBobcat wrote:


We both know that stormwater management facilities often fail. I think we have made worlds of progress in this regard but we're still operating on a lot of faulty assumptions when it comes to the science and practice of stormwater management.


There's no question a stormwater management system requires regular maintenance, and can fail.

That's why New Jersey requires that,for "Major Developments"' any project,including roads,that disturb 1 acre or more of land or adds 1/4 acre or more of new impervious coverage,the "owner" have an "Operation and Maintenance" manual.

That manual has to be approved ,and must include signed "logs" for each maintenance or repair task.
Those logs are supposed to checked by the municipal stormwater coordinator (the title varies by jurisdiction).

In fact,the coordinator is also supposed the check all of these systems,even on private property,to make sure they are working.


Last Edited: 3/29/2018 6:59:29 AM by rpbobcat

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 3/29/2018 10:49:28 AM 
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
I would imagine such things will be programmable by the owner.


Additionally, two things:

1. Speed limits will be higher since human error is no longer an issue.

2. Traffic congestion, which is caused mostly by inefficient behavior on humans' part, will no longer be an issue so everyone will get everywhere faster anyway. No more worries about slow left lane drivers, no more dealing with people that don't know how to zipper merge or who block traffic lanes because they don't want people to "skip" to the front of the line, no more people following too closely and braking abruptly, etc. All those behaviors are what cause traffic congestion.


But,this supposed utopia can only happen if all vehicles are self driving.



True. And I don't actually think that it'll be a utopia. I think there are plenty of issues with self-driving cars. But I think two things are apparent:

1. They will eventually be much safer than human driven cars.

2. They move us very much toward a world where congestion is a thing of the past.

Now there are all kinds of concerns like the fact that they could lead to even more sprawling development patterns, we'll need more places to store them, they may supplant more sustainable modes of transportation, etc. But I do think the two points above will be solid benefits.


One issue with a congestion solution with automated cars is limitations with just one of those cars. As I type this, I'm listening to Internet radio, which is cutting out due to lagging issues. Imagine that happens to a car/cars on the road? It would not be unlike a manned car issue slowing down traffic. What is more feasible in improving traffic congestion is a smart grid of networked traffic signals and flex lanes that adjust according to traffic patterns and move traffic more efficiently by coordinating signals (ever sit at a red light with no cross traffic while cars pile up in line in either direction?)
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 3/29/2018 12:01:57 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:


One issue with a congestion solution with automated cars is limitations with just one of those cars. As I type this, I'm listening to Internet radio, which is cutting out due to lagging issues. Imagine that happens to a car/cars on the road? It would not be unlike a manned car issue slowing down traffic. What is more feasible in improving traffic congestion is a smart grid of networked traffic signals and flex lanes that adjust according to traffic patterns and move traffic more efficiently by coordinating signals (ever sit at a red light with no cross traffic while cars pile up in line in either direction?)


One of the things I design are Intersection Improvements.

Right now we do use "smart" traffic lights.

They use cameras to "see" if there are any vehicles at cross streets,day or night.
No vehicles,the primary road stays green.

Not only that,the cameras "count" the cars on the side street,and adjust the phasing accordingly.

We also "sync" the lights along a corridor.

The system also uses sensors to turn intersections "all red" when emergency apparatus need to go thru.

There are limitations however.
Snow,fog and even heavy rain can temporarily mess up the cameras.

I would think it would do the same thing with a self driving car.

You also see all these stories about how fragile things like our electric grid are to hacking.

What if they hack the self driving cars'computers ?



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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 4/6/2018 11:19:32 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:


We both know that stormwater management facilities often fail. I think we have made worlds of progress in this regard but we're still operating on a lot of faulty assumptions when it comes to the science and practice of stormwater management.


There's no question a stormwater management system requires regular maintenance, and can fail.

That's why New Jersey requires that,for "Major Developments"' any project,including roads,that disturb 1 acre or more of land or adds 1/4 acre or more of new impervious coverage,the "owner" have an "Operation and Maintenance" manual.

That manual has to be approved ,and must include signed "logs" for each maintenance or repair task.
Those logs are supposed to checked by the municipal stormwater coordinator (the title varies by jurisdiction).

In fact,the coordinator is also supposed the check all of these systems,even on private property,to make sure they are working.




I think NJ is ahead of most states in this regard though. Also, one issue we always had in PA was that the Stormwater Coordinator was often someone who wore many hats. As a result, they weren't always the most qualified individual or they didn't always have the time and resources to regularly monitor all of the systems. I worked with several townships that had failing systems that were causing major problems downstream.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 4/6/2018 11:24:31 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
OhioStunter wrote:


One issue with a congestion solution with automated cars is limitations with just one of those cars. As I type this, I'm listening to Internet radio, which is cutting out due to lagging issues. Imagine that happens to a car/cars on the road? It would not be unlike a manned car issue slowing down traffic. What is more feasible in improving traffic congestion is a smart grid of networked traffic signals and flex lanes that adjust according to traffic patterns and move traffic more efficiently by coordinating signals (ever sit at a red light with no cross traffic while cars pile up in line in either direction?)


One of the things I design are Intersection Improvements.

Right now we do use "smart" traffic lights.

They use cameras to "see" if there are any vehicles at cross streets,day or night.
No vehicles,the primary road stays green.

Not only that,the cameras "count" the cars on the side street,and adjust the phasing accordingly.

We also "sync" the lights along a corridor.

The system also uses sensors to turn intersections "all red" when emergency apparatus need to go thru.

There are limitations however.
Snow,fog and even heavy rain can temporarily mess up the cameras.

I would think it would do the same thing with a self driving car.

You also see all these stories about how fragile things like our electric grid are to hacking.

What if they hack the self driving cars'computers ?


Again, I think NJ is ahead of the game here. The signals in Downtown Cincinnati haven't been updated in several decades. The signals are timed to get people efficiently east to west and vice versa so they can get to I-71 and I-75 on ramps quickly, but now there are significant issues trying to move north to south because of a flurry of development downtown and in Over-The-Rhine. If you are traveling east/west you often move very quickly, but if you are traveling north/south you hit every light, even when there is not traffic east/west. The city is undertaking a traffic study now to identify improvements but it should've been done years ago, and definitely should have been done before they opened the streetcar line traveling north/south through the urban core.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 5/2/2018 6:58:32 AM 
Today's (5/02) Column in The Record talks about a poll done by CARiD on autonomous vehicles.

Based on a survey they did, it seems,for the most part,people don't have an issue with semi autonomous vehicles using automatic braking and similar technology.

However,according to the article, over 70% of the people they polled would still drive,even if given the option not to have to.

Maybe they only polled dinosaurs like me.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 5/2/2018 9:49:05 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Today's (5/02) Column in The Record talks about a poll done by CARiD on autonomous vehicles.

Based on a survey they did, it seems,for the most part,people don't have an issue with semi autonomous vehicles using automatic braking and similar technology.

However,according to the article, over 70% of the people they polled would still drive,even if given the option not to have to.

Maybe they only polled dinosaurs like me.


I would still drive if given the option not to... Sometimes...

I enjoy driving a lot of the time, and will do it just because I enjoy it. At the same time when I'm sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic I would gladly pay for the luxury of letting the computer takeover while I read BobcatAttack on my phone.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 5/25/2018 7:21:09 AM 
According to an article by Nathan Bomey of USA Today,the self driving car that hit the pedestrian in Arizona did detect the pedestrian.

But the vehicle's automatic braking system was disabled to "reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior",whatever that is.

Thing is,even though the vehicle's sensors detected the pedestrian,the system isn't set up to alert the human driver.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 9/5/2018 6:52:58 AM 
There's an article in today's The Post that says Athens entered into an agreement with DriveOhio to be considered as as a test site for autonomous vehicles.

Last Edited: 9/5/2018 6:53:25 AM by rpbobcat

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/11/2018 3:40:32 PM 
Heard a story about this on WOR radio this morning.

Apparently,Homeland Security has a lot of concerns about driverless vehicles being used as IED's.

They look at them as potential " drones on wheels".
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finnOhio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 10/12/2018 3:15:29 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Heard a story about this on WOR radio this morning.

Apparently,Homeland Security has a lot of concerns about driverless vehicles being used as IED's.

They look at them as potential " drones on wheels".


I'm a major proponent of autonomous cars, but this really is an interesting point and something I've not thought of. I wonder if this would then require that all cars would have to have some passenger in them and cannot be a personless car.
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akroncat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 12/10/2018 2:53:17 PM 
When I was driving this morning this situation occurred and I thought how would have it been handled with autonomous cars. Being 69 years old I am not a big supporter, but I thought this was interesting.

On my way home I was behind a mail delivery truck who was stopping at every mailbox. Were going up a fairly large hill so you could not see far ahead. The truck was at least half in the traffic lane. What would a self driving car do? Since you could not see over the hill, would it just sit being the truck at each mailbox and wait until it finally crested the hill? Would it pass the truck on a double yellow line if there was no traffic approaching? With the truck stopping every 100 feet and partially blocking the road, would the car pass the truck?

Just thought about this while I was waiting and I finally passed on the double yellow and got around him before the traffic coming at me was too close.
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 12/27/2018 5:41:44 PM 
akroncat wrote:
When I was driving this morning this situation occurred and I thought how would have it been handled with autonomous cars. Being 69 years old I am not a big supporter, but I thought this was interesting.

On my way home I was behind a mail delivery truck who was stopping at every mailbox. Were going up a fairly large hill so you could not see far ahead. The truck was at least half in the traffic lane. What would a self driving car do? Since you could not see over the hill, would it just sit being the truck at each mailbox and wait until it finally crested the hill? Would it pass the truck on a double yellow line if there was no traffic approaching? With the truck stopping every 100 feet and partially blocking the road, would the car pass the truck?

Just thought about this while I was waiting and I finally passed on the double yellow and got around him before the traffic coming at me was too close.


Autonomous cars will be able to talk to each other and to the infrastructure so it'll know if a car is coming or not.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 12/28/2018 8:58:23 AM 
I just finished a Continuing Education Class on "Adaptive Traffic Control Systems".

Around here the systems use sensors to monitor traffic volumes and speed.

They then use this information,in conjunction with "smart" traffic lights, to adjust signal timing to hopefully improve traffic flow and reduce congestion and idling.

They touched briefly on the possibility of using this same type of system for
autonomous vehicles.
According to the instructor,"we're not there yet".
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 2/5/2019 6:59:16 AM 
Interesting article on this in today's The Record by Tom Kisher of the AP.

I never knew Pittsburgh was a hot bed for development and testing of autonomous vehicles.

The article goes into why autonomous vehicles won't be coming soon :

1.When roads get snow covered,vehicle cameras can't work.
According to the article, this is one thing researchers haven't been able to get around.
The article says this is why most testing is done in warm weather locations.

2.Heavy falling snow and rain,as well as fog and sandstorms obstruct cameras and
lasers bounce around.
Radar also has issues identifying the shape of objects it detects.

3.Pavement lines and curbs aren't uniform,or in some cases don't exist.
They use the "Strip District" in Pitt. as an example.
That would mean a vehicle would have to be able to learn and adjust to wherever it is.

4.Autonomous vehicles are programmed to follow set rules.
Human drivers and pedestrians aren't.
Things like double parking,stepping out from between parked cars, cause all kinds of problems.

5.Left turns into to traffic seem to be another big problem,unless there is no oncoming traffic.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 2/5/2019 10:27:43 AM 
rpbobcat, the reasons you post are great examples of why, as I've said many times, when you are talking about AI, you need to put the emphasis on the word "artificial," not the word "intelligence"!


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 2/5/2019 4:43:19 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Interesting article on this in today's The Record by Tom Kisher of the AP.

I never knew Pittsburgh was a hot bed for development and testing of autonomous vehicles.

The article goes into why autonomous vehicles won't be coming soon :

1.When roads get snow covered,vehicle cameras can't work.
According to the article, this is one thing researchers haven't been able to get around.
The article says this is why most testing is done in warm weather locations.

2.Heavy falling snow and rain,as well as fog and sandstorms obstruct cameras and
lasers bounce around.
Radar also has issues identifying the shape of objects it detects.

3.Pavement lines and curbs aren't uniform,or in some cases don't exist.
They use the "Strip District" in Pitt. as an example.
That would mean a vehicle would have to be able to learn and adjust to wherever it is.

4.Autonomous vehicles are programmed to follow set rules.
Human drivers and pedestrians aren't.
Things like double parking,stepping out from between parked cars, cause all kinds of problems.

5.Left turns into to traffic seem to be another big problem,unless there is no oncoming traffic.



another thing that would make pittsburgh a difficult, but apt testing ground is how easily a GPS gets confused in that city. Stacked roads and highways mess with the locators big time. narrow streets and tall buildings probably make it more difficult too.

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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 3/17/2019 8:35:42 PM 
Reading through this entire thread and enjoying it despite the lines being drawn. Just a couple of questions.

How do folks who live out in McConnelsville or rural Vinton County and a ton of America fit into this?

How does one take in a game in Mt Pleasant from Athens? Do you take the car up and back and park it or do you get there and call a new one to go back home. While you are at the game does it wait or do you have a series of cars and pack your luggage place to place?

Going to visit my brother in Wyoming, how does that happen?

Does the rise of the self driving auto coincide with a resurgence of intercity rails?

How do you see regulation of rates and monopolies and avoid area where there are "car deserts" like we have with areas that don't have supermarkets, stores or places to get things. In many rural areas whole downtowns are now replaced with a Dollar General. I guess my question is how this works in the great expanses that exist in the middle. Are we all going to move to the coasts?

And lastly, answering every challenge or question with "what about the 30k lives" is not going to convince everyone.



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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 3/18/2019 1:39:16 PM 
longtiimelurker wrote:


I guess my question is how this works in the great expanses that exist in the middle. Are we all going to move to the coasts?



Unrelated to AVs but this is already happening and has been for years. A majority of Ohio counties have lost population over the past couple of decades. Only a handful have seen meaningful growth, mostly in the the Cincy and Cbus metro areas. Rural areas in the Midwest and South are emptying out as young people move to cities/suburbs and old people die or move to retirement destinations.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 3/26/2019 10:33:49 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
longtiimelurker wrote:


I guess my question is how this works in the great expanses that exist in the middle. Are we all going to move to the coasts?



Unrelated to AVs but this is already happening and has been for years. A majority of Ohio counties have lost population over the past couple of decades. Only a handful have seen meaningful growth, mostly in the the Cincy and Cbus metro areas. Rural areas in the Midwest and South are emptying out as young people move to cities/suburbs and old people die or move to retirement destinations.


I get that movement to the cities. Been watching for years as folks in rural Ohio move from Marion to Delaware, Convoy to Toledo, Washington CH to Cincinnati, Greenville to Dayton and similar moves. Still does not tell me how the folks that remain are going to get to town from Turkey Valley to Des Moines or Iowa City. The intrigue comes from how those cities expanded to the burbs and now that they have all fled the cities and live 27 miles out how that Uber is going to take them downtown or to the west perimeter along 270 every day.

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Vedder shifts his fire onto parking services
   Posted: 4/1/2019 11:26:06 AM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
[QUOTE=longtiimelurker]

I guess my question is how this works in the great expanses that exist in the middle. Are we all going to move to the coasts?


The intrigue comes from how those cities expanded to the burbs and now that they have all fled the cities and live 27 miles out how that Uber is going to take them downtown or to the west perimeter along 270 every day.



That phenomenon was more of a 1990s and 2000s one than a current one. The current trend is for growth in the central city. For example, Blue Ash has grown about 0.7% since 2010, while downtown Cincinnati has doubled in population. Even boom town exurbs like Mason have seen a slowing of growth. Mason grew 92% in the 1990s, 40% in the 2000s, and only 8% since then. Looking at Columbus, Dublin grew 92% in the 1990s, 33% in the 2000s, and 14% since 2010. At the same time, neighborhoods near downtown are booming with new construction. Similarly, downtown Cleveland now has over 20,000 residents. There's a lot of research that says that people tend to view 30 minutes one way as the limit for a comfortable commute. Some are willing to go over that but the average is about a half hour. With that in mind, it's just not feasible to keep sprawling outward endlessly. The infrastructure investment it would take to keep developing into the hinterland is just unrealistic.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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