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Topic:  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas

Topic:  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
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Kevin Finnegan
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Location: Rockton, IL
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/12/2016 5:09:29 PM 
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/state/john-kasich-on-refusin...

Maybe condemned is strong language, but he mentioned that he wouldn't have signed it and thinks that the Mississippi law is out of line.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/13/2016 2:12:02 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/state/john-kasich-on-refusin...

Maybe condemned is strong language, but he mentioned that he wouldn't have signed it and thinks that the Mississippi law is out of line.


Well, I'd consider a "what the hell are we doing in this country" a condemnation. Good for him.

Kasich is starting to get well positioned for 2020.



Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 9:34:36 AM 
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 1:10:03 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?


https://www.change.org/p/the-people-support-bruce-springs...

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 2:03:23 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?


https://www.change.org/p/the-people-support-bruce-springs...


According to the petition,Bruce has the right not to do business with people he disagrees with.
I wonder if he thinks that same "right" should apply to every businessman ?





Last Edited: 4/14/2016 3:08:09 PM by rpbobcat
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,022

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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 3:33:24 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?


https://www.change.org/p/the-people-support-bruce-springs...


According to the petition,Bruce has the right not to do business with people he disagrees with.
I wonder if he thinks that same "right" should apply to every businessman ?







First of all, Bruce did not start this petition and based on what I can find, has not endorsed it. He is providing refunds for those who bought tickets. As for promoter costs, I can't find that anywhere. If we can close the case on this concert, let's look at the bigger picture going forward.

As an artist, I can choose to work/play wherever I want. Choosing not to work/play in a particular state is very different than having a business and refusing to serve customers in a store based on some criteria that one finds offensive. As an artist, I have no obligation to schedule a show in a particular place. A store already exists and by law cannot discriminate based on certain criteria. There is a difference in the two cases - a show that might happen and a store that exists.
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Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 4:48:31 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
First of all, Bruce did not start this petition and based on what I can find, has not endorsed it. He is providing refunds for those who bought tickets. As for promoter costs, I can't find that anywhere. If we can close the case on this concert, let's look at the bigger picture going forward.

As an artist, I can choose to work/play wherever I want. Choosing not to work/play in a particular state is very different than having a business and refusing to serve customers in a store based on some criteria that one finds offensive. As an artist, I have no obligation to schedule a show in a particular place. A store already exists and by law cannot discriminate based on certain criteria. There is a difference in the two cases - a show that might happen and a store that exists.



RP's analogy illustrates the danger of manipulating societal norms by way of fiat. The way I see it, it's often better to expose people to new norms, let them grow into those norms, and eventually accept those norms at their own pace. This is especially true when dealing with questions of morality. Societal acceptance of new ideas happens at a varied rate, from early adopters to laggards. Let the laggards catch on without so quickly resorting to lawsuits and violence. I don't know why guys like Springsteen and Bryan Adams make this so polarizing. They're in perfect position to advocate if they choose to do so. And if they're interested, they can advocate and be respectful of differing opinions at the same time.
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 5:43:13 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
First of all, Bruce did not start this petition and based on what I can find, has not endorsed it. He is providing refunds for those who bought tickets. As for promoter costs, I can't find that anywhere. If we can close the case on this concert, let's look at the bigger picture going forward.

As an artist, I can choose to work/play wherever I want. Choosing not to work/play in a particular state is very different than having a business and refusing to serve customers in a store based on some criteria that one finds offensive. As an artist, I have no obligation to schedule a show in a particular place. A store already exists and by law cannot discriminate based on certain criteria. There is a difference in the two cases - a show that might happen and a store that exists.



RP's analogy illustrates the danger of manipulating societal norms by way of fiat. The way I see it, it's often better to expose people to new norms, let them grow into those norms, and eventually accept those norms at their own pace. This is especially true when dealing with questions of morality. Societal acceptance of new ideas happens at a varied rate, from early adopters to laggards. Let the laggards catch on without so quickly resorting to lawsuits and violence. I don't know why guys like Springsteen and Bryan Adams make this so polarizing. They're in perfect position to advocate if they choose to do so. And if they're interested, they can advocate and be respectful of differing opinions at the same time.


Since the late 50's and perhaps before (I haven't studied much on it before that), musicians such as Joan Baez, Peter, Paul and Mary, Harry Belefonte and Harry Chapin have pushed the envelope on everything from civil rights to world hunger. Not only were they early adopters but they were movement makers. Sports figures have been reluctant to do that. LeBron James is an exception. I remember going to a CSN&Y show at Polaris not too many years ago and some people walked out when Neil played a few of his songs. My wife and I looked at each other and said, "what did they expect, it's CSN&Y." Personally I'm glad that Bruce acted on something I've quoted him as saying before, "do something."
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 5:51:22 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?


https://www.change.org/p/the-people-support-bruce-springs...


According to the petition,Bruce has the right not to do business with people he disagrees with.
I wonder if he thinks that same "right" should apply to every businessman ?



First of all, Bruce did not start this petition and based on what I can find, has not endorsed it. He is providing refunds for those who bought tickets. As for promoter costs, I can't find that anywhere. If we can close the case on this concert, let's look at the bigger picture going forward.

As an artist, I can choose to work/play wherever I want. Choosing not to work/play in a particular state is very different than having a business and refusing to serve customers in a store based on some criteria that one finds offensive. As an artist, I have no obligation to schedule a show in a particular place. A store already exists and by law cannot discriminate based on certain criteria. There is a difference in the two cases - a show that might happen and a store that exists.



Guess I wasn't clear.
My comments dealt strictly with the language used in the petition.
I showed it to several of my friends who support Bruce 100% on canceling the show.
They couldn't believe how hypocritical the petition comes across.

Last Edited: 4/14/2016 5:56:19 PM by rpbobcat
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 7:27:07 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Personally I'm glad that Bruce acted on something I've quoted him as saying before, "do something."


Not bad, Mr. Swank. How about this one: "Nobody wins unless everybody wins."
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/14/2016 7:33:11 PM 
Speaking of Springsteen and knowing there are more than one sportswriter among BA posters (former sportswriter, myself) makes me wonder if those sports hacks/Bobcat fans are also fans of the Boss like others in this link:

http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/article70089727.html

Interestingly, Todd Jones' of the Columbus Dispatch mentioned in this article that his first Bruce concert was in 1981 in Cincy, which happens to be my first Bruce concert as well. I remember driving from Athens to Cincy, then back that night, before classes the next day. It was the second show of the River Tour. The E St. Band is touring this year behind the re-release of the River album and my daughter and I saw him Tuesday night in Columbus (wonder if Todd Jones was there). She couldn't believe a 66-year-old man can put on a 3.5 hour show with so much energy, comparing it to a 1.5 hour Taylor Swift show she recently attended.

Last Edited: 4/14/2016 7:40:56 PM by bobcatsquared
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DelBobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/21/2016 4:14:34 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?


https://www.change.org/p/the-people-support-bruce-springs...


According to the petition,Bruce has the right not to do business with people he disagrees with.
I wonder if he thinks that same "right" should apply to every businessman ?



First of all, Bruce did not start this petition and based on what I can find, has not endorsed it. He is providing refunds for those who bought tickets. As for promoter costs, I can't find that anywhere. If we can close the case on this concert, let's look at the bigger picture going forward.

As an artist, I can choose to work/play wherever I want. Choosing not to work/play in a particular state is very different than having a business and refusing to serve customers in a store based on some criteria that one finds offensive. As an artist, I have no obligation to schedule a show in a particular place. A store already exists and by law cannot discriminate based on certain criteria. There is a difference in the two cases - a show that might happen and a store that exists.



Guess I wasn't clear.
My comments dealt strictly with the language used in the petition.
I showed it to several of my friends who support Bruce 100% on canceling the show.
They couldn't believe how hypocritical the petition comes across.


The guy that started that position did not push for Bruce to cancel his show. He is upset about Bruce cancelling the show and the petition is SATIRE. He is trying to paint Bruce as a hypocrite, and lacks the mental complexity to distinguish between Bruce's actions and discriminatory actions of others.

That is so blatantly obvious that I'm shocked that you wouldn't realize it. If you need proof, here is an article the guy wrote:

http://constitution.com/support-bruce-springsteens-right-... /

Last Edited: 4/21/2016 4:15:38 PM by DelBobcat

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/21/2016 4:54:13 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
...and lacks the mental complexity to distinguish between Bruce's actions and discriminatory actions of others.

That is so blatantly obvious that I'm shocked that you wouldn't realize it.


Oh please. Get over yourself.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/22/2016 7:18:55 AM 
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Saw this on another board this morning.

One of the people who pushed for Bruce to cancel his NC concert (Mr.Burgard), and started a petition for it, was quoted as saying:
(I'm paraphrasing)
Mr. Springsteen,like every business person, has the right to deny services where and when it violates their beliefs.

Wonder how that foot tastes ?


https://www.change.org/p/the-people-support-bruce-springs...


According to the petition,Bruce has the right not to do business with people he disagrees with.
I wonder if he thinks that same "right" should apply to every businessman ?



First of all, Bruce did not start this petition and based on what I can find, has not endorsed it. He is providing refunds for those who bought tickets. As for promoter costs, I can't find that anywhere. If we can close the case on this concert, let's look at the bigger picture going forward.

As an artist, I can choose to work/play wherever I want. Choosing not to work/play in a particular state is very different than having a business and refusing to serve customers in a store based on some criteria that one finds offensive. As an artist, I have no obligation to schedule a show in a particular place. A store already exists and by law cannot discriminate based on certain criteria. There is a difference in the two cases - a show that might happen and a store that exists.



Guess I wasn't clear.
My comments dealt strictly with the language used in the petition.
I showed it to several of my friends who support Bruce 100% on canceling the show.
They couldn't believe how hypocritical the petition comes across.


The guy that started that position did not push for Bruce to cancel his show. He is upset about Bruce cancelling the show and the petition is SATIRE. He is trying to paint Bruce as a hypocrite, and lacks the mental complexity to distinguish between Bruce's actions and discriminatory actions of others.

That is so blatantly obvious that I'm shocked that you wouldn't realize it. If you need proof, here is an article the guy wrote:

http://constitution.com/support-bruce-springsteens-right-... /


As I said previously,I found out about the petition on another site.

The person who posted the comment about the petition was against the NC Law and 100% in favor of Bruce canceling the show.

I had no reason to think that the petition wasn't "on the level" given the fact that it was brought up by a supporter of canceling the show and mirrors the posts from a number of Bruce's fans.
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cc-cat
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Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/22/2016 4:48:44 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
Since this thread started off about Governor Kasich and delved into the NC law, of course he had to bring it full-circle. His condemnation of these laws is very interesting.

I know earlier in the thread, the discussion was on his sincerity. It feels like he's speaking straight from the heart and is avoiding bombastic claims. I disagree with him on many social and fiscal issues, but I genuinely get the feeling that what he feels is because he thinks it's in the best interest of our country. I get the impression he could be a good leader. He doesn't seem to be looking to put on a show or grab headlines, he just wants to jumpstart many national discussions.

Similarly, on the topic of level-headedness and conversation-building, thank you CC Cat for your posts. I can honestly say that I learned a lot from your posts and felt that you did it without truly planting a stake in the ground. Are you the same one who once posted at length about branding? If so, I think I could read your writing everyday. You're quite thoughtful in your words and stop and make me think. Thanks for that.


Just a quick update - though this issue has now exploded nationally. The Governor's executive order was a token gesture - and called out upon by most. Shame the "bathroom" issue has become the distraction to the overall discrimination issue.

Yes, I was the brand guy - I get long winded sometimes. Only Finn I know from Ohio was Chris - class of 83 - relative?
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Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/28/2016 1:28:28 AM 
Agree with OCF that the governments should not pay for the party (Repub, Democrat, etc.) elections.

My understanding is that Kasich balanced the Ohio state budget by taking money from cities, to the cities significant detriment. Lousy.

C'mon anyone who thinks Repub/extreme conservative efforts such as in NC are anything but assertion of the right of a business offering services to the public to discriminatorily choose who it does business with is either willfully blind/ignorant or not very perceptive. It's the same way that Southerners asserted "states rights" as a way to keep discriminating against blacks. You can put a coat on it but you can't hide the smell.

RFox, over-the-edge conservative, wants society to proceed at a pace that gently changes social norms. Yeah, keep on denying the vote to blacks and women and separate but equal etc until the time is right centuries from now. No heed to doing what is right and moral by treating people equally irrespective of race, religion, sex, etc. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if you were on the minority end of that.

RFox--there are differing opinions...and there is blatant moral failure to allow equal rights. And they are in no way equivalent.

OCF weird argument about how suppressing vote by requiring ID now is not tantamount to tactics suppressing black voting over the years. Huh?

Springsteen choosing not to perform in NC is about equal to a merchant of a public business being able to choose who he serves/doesn't serve--seriously?



The Dem candidates are reasonably moderate. The Repub candidates are extreme. Still waiting for 1) the huge Repub/conservative wave that is going to easily sweep out the Dems and 2) the obvious coming indictment of Hillary for illegalities.

These things may yet come. But I think that a reasonably objective person would have rolled his or her eyes at these expectation at all points in time.

Dems don't do a good job of framing their msgs. Repubs do a much better job of that. But Repubs get so lost in their own echo chamber that they can't see a reasonable representation of the truth.

Now, we're havin' some fun.




Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/28/2016 7:02:27 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Agree with OCF that the governments should not pay for the party (Repub, Democrat, etc.) elections.

My understanding is that Kasich balanced the Ohio state budget by taking money from cities, to the cities significant detriment. Lousy.

C'mon anyone who thinks Repub/extreme conservative efforts such as in NC are anything but assertion of the right of a business offering services to the public to discriminatorily choose who it does business with is either willfully blind/ignorant or not very perceptive. It's the same way that Southerners asserted "states rights" as a way to keep discriminating against blacks. You can put a coat on it but you can't hide the smell.

RFox, over-the-edge conservative, wants society to proceed at a pace that gently changes social norms. Yeah, keep on denying the vote to blacks and women and separate but equal etc until the time is right centuries from now. No heed to doing what is right and moral by treating people equally irrespective of race, religion, sex, etc. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if you were on the minority end of that.

RFox--there are differing opinions...and there is blatant moral failure to allow equal rights. And they are in no way equivalent.

OCF weird argument about how suppressing vote by requiring ID now is not tantamount to tactics suppressing black voting over the years. Huh?

Springsteen choosing not to perform in NC is about equal to a merchant of a public business being able to choose who he serves/doesn't serve--seriously?



The Dem candidates are reasonably moderate. The Repub candidates are extreme. Still waiting for 1) the huge Repub/conservative wave that is going to easily sweep out the Dems and 2) the obvious coming indictment of Hillary for illegalities.

These things may yet come. But I think that a reasonably objective person would have rolled his or her eyes at these expectation at all points in time.

Dems don't do a good job of framing their msgs. Repubs do a much better job of that. But Repubs get so lost in their own echo chamber that they can't see a reasonable representation of the truth.

Now, we're havin' some fun.






Lets see.
When I go to a bank branch that doesn't know me and want to cash a check,I need to show a photo I.D.
I want to order tickets to a braodway show on line.I'm told to pick up the tickets I need to show the credit card I used and a photo I.D.
When I fly I need to show a photo I.D.

But requiring an I.D. to vote,even when its offered for free, is surpessing someone's right to vote.
Come on.

The Democratic candidates are "reasonably moderate".
That's like saying Antartica is "chilly".



Last Edited: 4/28/2016 7:03:15 AM by rpbobcat
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Taiwan BC
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/28/2016 8:36:03 AM 
On a lighter note, anyone catch Cruz's basketball boo-boo while speaking in Indiana? Called a basketball hoop a "ring". NY pizza vs Indiana hoops misstep... Which one will/cost more votes?
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/28/2016 10:13:59 AM 
Taiwan BC wrote:
On a lighter note, anyone catch Cruz's basketball boo-boo while speaking in Indiana? Called a basketball hoop a "ring". NY pizza vs Indiana hoops misstep... Which one will/cost more votes?


Reminds me of when Ted Kennedy talked about Sammy Sooser and Mike McGwire during the big home run race of 1998. It often seems awkward when politicians try to relate with us common folks with sports references. I'd give GW Bush and Obama passes though, they truly seem to know and love sports.

I'm going to guess that Cruz has never played rings...
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 4/28/2016 12:24:11 PM 
And during his presidential run,John Kerry praised "Buckeye football" when he was giving a speech in Michigan.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 5/1/2016 11:45:36 AM 
Repub = angry.

We should football recruit them.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 5/10/2016 8:31:35 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
The FBI primary is a joke, just like the Cubs for the past 108 years.


Cheap shot.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 7/22/2016 7:50:29 AM 
Springsteen and the NBA, the most progressive of the four major sports leagues in our country, will come out on the right side of history concerning this issue.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 7/22/2016 10:57:12 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Springsteen and the NBA, the most progressive of the four major sports leagues in our country, will come out on the right side of history concerning this issue.


Let me preface this by saying I'm a big fan of Bruce's music.I've seen him in concert well over 70 times and will be seeing him again this summer.

When it came to his cancelling his North Carolina concert I believe he was wrong and hypocritical.

1.He cancelled 2 days before the show.Some fans were already in route when they found out.
Other fans lost the money for the flights and hotels they booked.

2.Besides his fans,the people he impacted most were the "little people" like the arena staff,vendors etc. The ones he touts in his Public Service Announcements (PSA's) during his shows.

3.Bruce has/does play places like Australia,Germany and Italy that are much less LGBT friendly then North Carolina.

I feel Bruce should have done the concert and made a PSA about the law.



Last Edited: 7/22/2016 10:57:48 AM by rpbobcat
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Governor Kasich Faux Pas
   Posted: 7/22/2016 8:56:39 PM 
Do not blame Bruce for reacting to quickly arising politics.

Blame the wondrously open-minded NC legislature.


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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