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As I've said before,I chair a committee for F.D.U.'s school of Enginering / Engineering Technology. I can tell you they rely heavily on adjunts and lecturers. One problem I noticed is turnover,which may be why they are using more Asst.Professors. New Jersy doesn't really have satalite campuses,they instead use more of a Community College model. A lot of high school students go to C.C.'s because of cost and N.J.'s set up that has a "seamless",100% Transfer rate for C.C. credits to a 4 year state school. This summer,due to lower enrollment one of them (Bergen Community) "fired" a bunch of full time,non-tenured professors and told them if they wanted to stay at the school they'd have to apply to be adjuncts. The 100% transfer rate sounds nice,but my niece found out that its not all its cracked up to be. She had all her credits transfered,but ended up retaking a bunch of classes because they weren't taught at the same level as a 4 year school. Back to Top DelBobcat General User Member Since: 8/26/2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Post Count: 1,135 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/8/2015 9:03:43 AM  OUPride wrote: DelBobcat wrote: I don't have time right now to look into the stats or find the articles but I have read multiple articles about how universities "game" the U.S. News rankings and Ohio State is always mentioned as one of the biggest offenders. They do have a large amount of students "relocating" from regional campuses and if you look at their main campus freshmen class vs. their regional campuses they have one of the largest disparities in ACT scores, class rank, high school GPA, etc. One can bury their head in the sand about it and say it's all faked and Ohio has nothing to worry about. Or, one can take it seriously and as a challenge for how Ohio needs to improve and become more competitive. Complacency is not what Ohio needs right now. Wes had some great ideas about recruiting in the South and Mid-Atlantic. I've pointed out how much Ohio needs to increase merit aid to compete with Miami and OSU. All you seem to be saying is that none of it is real so why worry. [[AlfredENeuman.jpg]] Whoa, complete misrepresentation of my point. I think my "US News rankings are flawed and OSU has perfected using them to their advantage" and your "its all fake so why worry" are two completely different thoughts. I can recognize that the way we rank schools is flawed and criticize the system without thinking that we should just bury our heads in the sand. Of course OHIO still needs to strive to compete with Miami and OSU. I wouldn't argue that at all. I would also note that OHIO takes its role of serving the Appalachian Ohio community very seriously and we need to continue to balance that as well. We can grow our academic profile while continuing to provide access to disadvantaged students in Southern/Southeastern Ohio (of which I was one). BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012 Back to Top OUPride General User Member Since: 9/21/2010 Post Count: 562 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/9/2015 11:06:07 AM  DelBobcat wrote: OUPride wrote: [QUOTE=DelBobcat] I don't have time right now to look into the stats or find the articles but I have read multiple articles about how universities "game" the U.S. News rankings and Ohio State is always mentioned as one of the biggest offenders. Whoa, complete misrepresentation of my point. I think my "US News rankings are flawed and OSU has perfected using them to their advantage" and your "its all fake so why worry" are two completely different thoughts. I can recognize that the way we rank schools is flawed and criticize the system without thinking that we should just bury our heads in the sand. Of course OHIO still needs to strive to compete with Miami and OSU. I wouldn't argue that at all. I would also note that OHIO takes its role of serving the Appalachian Ohio community very seriously and we need to continue to balance that as well. We can grow our academic profile while continuing to provide access to disadvantaged students in Southern/Southeastern Ohio (of which I was one). I apologize if I misrepresented your comments, but I think your statement above was pretty clear. Gaming the rankings implies that they are submitting false data or encouraging unqualified applicants to apply (a'la Duke) or something else beyond simply submitting their data and letting the chips fall where they may, and I'd be interested in reading the articles. Simply doing well in rankings because they attract a selective student body, have large financial resources, high retention and grad rates and a very good reputation among other universities isn't "gaming the system. I think the criteria that I just mentioned are all things that we would like to see Ohio do well in, continue to improve in and remain competitive in. I don't think the US News rankings are the be-all and end-all, and I think that they are horribly biased towards private universities. That being said, some of the most important criteria (such as those that I mentioned above) I think most would agree are strong indicators of a university's quality. Probably, most importantly they have become something of a benchmark for universities' general quality perception among the general population and prospective students and their parents. Too important in my view, but that doesn't negate their significance nor allow a university to ignore them. In any event, one just can't dismiss the US News rankings to dismiss OSU. If you look at the four most important global rankings of universities, OSU does even better than they do in the US News. The faculty info that others posted was very interesting. Quite frankly it goes back to my point in the other thread that Vern Alden horribly misjudged the situation in the 60s. Had he created some type of uneasy alliance with OSU (rather than with Miami who essentially left us by the side of the road after getting what they wanted), Ohio might have really positioned itself to become an AAU university. Even if that meant being the clear secondary research university to OSU, it would have meant that Ohio was in that role alone rather than being one of 6 other schools attempting to chase down OSU and diluting state resources in the process. Instead, Ohio funds 8 doctoral programs in History, 7 in political science, 7 in Physics and 6 in Chemistry. It makes it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for any non-OSU university to rise above the rest and attract the kinds of faculty and researchers that end up at OSU. Back to Top DelBobcat General User Member Since: 8/26/2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Post Count: 1,135 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/9/2015 1:51:03 PM  OUPride wrote: DelBobcat wrote: OUPride wrote: [QUOTE=DelBobcat] I don't have time right now to look into the stats or find the articles but I have read multiple articles about how universities "game" the U.S. News rankings and Ohio State is always mentioned as one of the biggest offenders. Whoa, complete misrepresentation of my point. I think my "US News rankings are flawed and OSU has perfected using them to their advantage" and your "its all fake so why worry" are two completely different thoughts. I can recognize that the way we rank schools is flawed and criticize the system without thinking that we should just bury our heads in the sand. Of course OHIO still needs to strive to compete with Miami and OSU. I wouldn't argue that at all. I would also note that OHIO takes its role of serving the Appalachian Ohio community very seriously and we need to continue to balance that as well. We can grow our academic profile while continuing to provide access to disadvantaged students in Southern/Southeastern Ohio (of which I was one). I apologize if I misrepresented your comments, but I think your statement above was pretty clear. Gaming the rankings implies that they are submitting false data or encouraging unqualified applicants to apply (a'la Duke) or something else beyond simply submitting their data and letting the chips fall where they may, and I'd be interested in reading the articles. Simply doing well in rankings because they attract a selective student body, have large financial resources, high retention and grad rates and a very good reputation among other universities isn't "gaming the system. I think the criteria that I just mentioned are all things that we would like to see Ohio do well in, continue to improve in and remain competitive in. I don't think the US News rankings are the be-all and end-all, and I think that they are horribly biased towards private universities. That being said, some of the most important criteria (such as those that I mentioned above) I think most would agree are strong indicators of a university's quality. Probably, most importantly they have become something of a benchmark for universities' general quality perception among the general population and prospective students and their parents. Too important in my view, but that doesn't negate their significance nor allow a university to ignore them. In any event, one just can't dismiss the US News rankings to dismiss OSU. If you look at the four most important global rankings of universities, OSU does even better than they do in the US News. The faculty info that others posted was very interesting. Quite frankly it goes back to my point in the other thread that Vern Alden horribly misjudged the situation in the 60s. Had he created some type of uneasy alliance with OSU (rather than with Miami who essentially left us by the side of the road after getting what they wanted), Ohio might have really positioned itself to become an AAU university. Even if that meant being the clear secondary research university to OSU, it would have meant that Ohio was in that role alone rather than being one of 6 other schools attempting to chase down OSU and diluting state resources in the process. Instead, Ohio funds 8 doctoral programs in History, 7 in political science, 7 in Physics and 6 in Chemistry. It makes it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for any non-OSU university to rise above the rest and attract the kinds of faculty and researchers that end up at OSU. I guess I should clarify that I don't believe they are doing anything illegal or that they are submitting false data. I also do not think they are simply submitting their data and letting their chips fall where they may. Every university worth its salt tries to game the system to some extent, and by that I mean they look at exactly what it is that U.S. News wants of them, for better or worse, and then focus on making their numbers meet that model. OSU is very good at that. U.S. News cares about incoming ACT scores, not any indicator of the quality of the class that leaves the university with degrees in hand. As a result, OSU focuses on attracting the very best ACT scores and also tons of other non-qualified students so they can accept the good ones and regulate the others to branch campuses. OHIO, on the other hand, focuses more on GPA and has minimized ACT scores. That's great for the students in Southeast Ohio who may not stack up academically to some of their peers in the best suburban districts but who have tons of potential. It's bad for our U.S. News ranking. Now that's not to say that we also don't try to game the system in some ways. We hired an outside firm to help get our application numbers up. Not because we wanted to grow enrollment, but because we wanted to reject a larger percentage of students. That's gaming the system too and tons of schools do it. But alas, we're all just trying to keep up with the Joneses. BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012 Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/9/2015 11:07:00 PM  As it turns out, faculty salaries at Ohio are in the midst of a large increase. First the school has let a lot of Group I faculty retire out as the numbers have reduced since 2008 from 726 to 660 (a net loss of 66). The total compensation strategy calls for Ohio to be in the Top 3 in salary for all professor ranks implemented over 3 years from 2014 to 2016 to catch up at a cost of additional $3.9 million. Overall a 9.5 million (14%) increase to the salary pool. This increases the base salary at Ohio from $103,757 (2013) for a full professor to $122,603 (2016). Ohio is still behind Ohio State $142,200 (2014-15 dollars) and Utah $129,000 (2014-15) but moves the school to #2 in state and #3 among the peer study schools in overall pay. It would take another $10.0 million to close the gap with OSU but OU doesn't have that as an objective. The objective is to keep pay within the top 3 of the in-state schools. https://www.ohio.edu/finance/bpa/upload/Total-Compensatio... https://www.ohio.edu/instres/faculty/OUSalaryStudy.pdf Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,454 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/10/2015 11:04:47 PM  Uncle Wes wrote: As it turns out, faculty salaries at Ohio are in the midst of a large increase. First the school has let a lot of Group I faculty retire out as the numbers have reduced since 2008 from 726 to 660 (a net loss of 66). The total compensation strategy calls for Ohio to be in the Top 3 in salary for all professor ranks implemented over 3 years from 2014 to 2016 to catch up at a cost of additional $3.9 million. Overall a 9.5 million (14%) increase to the salary pool. This increases the base salary at Ohio from $103,757 (2013) for a full professor to $122,603 (2016). Ohio is still behind Ohio State $142,200 (2014-15 dollars) and Utah $129,000 (2014-15) but moves the school to #2 in state and #3 among the peer study schools in overall pay. It would take another $10.0 million to close the gap with OSU but OU doesn't have that as an objective. The objective is to keep pay within the top 3 of the in-state schools. https://www.ohio.edu/finance/bpa/upload/Total-Compensatio... https://www.ohio.edu/instres/faculty/OUSalaryStudy.pdf Is that assuming other Universities remain "flat"? Either way that is an admirable goal and I applaud the University for upping that ante. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/12/2015 12:16:58 PM  This article and its graphs are very interesting. http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2015/09/act-scor... Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/12/2015 3:55:35 PM  Alan Swank wrote: This article and its graphs are very interesting. http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2015/09/act-scor... Good find Alan. In Big Ten states its normal for the Big Ten school to be the most selective university. Ohio State was dealing with open enrollment until the early 80's which held it back for a long time. I was looking through some of the Ohio public university data sheet and Cincinnati had the same enrollment as Ohio State up until the late 70's. Both schools have traditionally been mid tier research schools behind the top tier (Stanford, Michigan, Harvard). Selectivity at Ohio State has now caught up Penn State and what is normal for the Big Ten. Until the mid 80's more students from NY/NJ enrolled at OU than OSU and now Ohio State leads in OU in enrollment from that region by a factor of 5 to 1. With the 4 corner universities (Miami, OU, Kent, BG) there is a different enrollment dynamic. Traditionally Miami competed with top tier privates, OU mid tier privates and Kent the lower tier privates on cost. Those schools all moved to "selective" admissions on the 60's and they moved up in enrollment/selectivity starting in the late 70's when private school tuition became sky high. OU was able to tighten up admission standards hitting a 24 average ACT score by the late 90's. By the mid 90's the private schools moved to merit aid and so OU's traditional advantage in cost over small private schools was neutralized. The privates move to merit aid didn't impact Miami as much and as a top tier college. Kent has a big population to draw on in NE Ohio and Western PA that keeps them coming in the doors. BG situation is they didn't have Vietnam Era boom that OU and Kent had. BG was the only public school not to close in the spring of 1970. When enrollments dropped at Kent and OU in the 70's that is when BG had its building boom. BG was open admissions and soared in enrollment taking advantage of the situation. There was more students from Cuyahoga and Montgomery county at BG in the mid 70's through mid 80's (but lower tier students). Once Ohio State moved to "selective" admissions in the 80's all the other schools in Ohio followed suit and that marked the beginning of the decline for BG. OU with in-state tuition became a stronger draw statewide than out-of-state and now is a 2:1 draw over BG from Cuyahoga and Montgomery county with vastly more selective students from both regions. https://www.ohiohighered.org/data-reports/historical Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Merit Aid (Arms Race)    Posted: 9/13/2015 11:14:53 AM  Here's another very interesting site - just released on Saturday. https://collegescorecard.ed.gov / and explanation of why we have it: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/us/with-website-to-rese... 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