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Topic:  RE: Housing-gate continues

Topic:  RE: Housing-gate continues
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 1:30:15 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
A fairly reasoned perspective, I think, on this issue:

Alan Dershowitz: Mr. President, please end the policy of separating children from parents

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/18/alan-dershowitz...

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html .




As far as the previous post about Laura Ingrahm referring to the detention centers as a summer camp.
That's not appropriate, but her comments are no worse then comparing them to Nazi Concentration Camps.



Wow! Is it possible that those of your ilk can prsent an argument without justifying it based on what someone else said or did? Why not just say that laura in graham is flat out wrong. Period.


Simple,if you read the article she made her comments in response to people comparing the detention centers to Nazi Concentration Camps.


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cc-cat
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Location: matthews, NC
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 1:38:22 PM 
Alan - Don't be too hard one RP - he has cone around to acknowledge that those seeking asylum should not be separated from their children (as is the current policy of this administration) AND that those accompanied by a parent or guardian should not be separated from their parents (as is the current policy of this administration. Hopefully the administration will listen to folks like RP, Dersowitz and others and drop this policy.

Last Edited: 6/19/2018 1:39:23 PM by cc-cat

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 1:40:14 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.

Last Edited: 6/19/2018 1:41:18 PM by rpbobcat

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 1:44:56 PM 

Last Edited: 6/19/2018 3:51:27 PM by Alan Swank

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 1:51:35 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.


You say you don't agree - and then you agree that we need a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities - hence - you do agree we should not be taking children from their parents.

I'm sure you agree that those seeking asylum should not be separated - just as your ancestors and mine were not ripped from their parents when they came here "by the rules."
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DelBobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 2:01:12 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
A fairly reasoned perspective, I think, on this issue:

Alan Dershowitz: Mr. President, please end the policy of separating children from parents

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/18/alan-dershowitz...

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html .




As far as the previous post about Laura Ingrahm referring to the detention centers as a summer camp.
That's not appropriate, but her comments are no worse then comparing them to Nazi Concentration Camps.



Wow! Is it possible that those of your ilk can prsent an argument without justifying it based on what someone else said or did? Why not just say that laura in graham is flat out wrong. Period.


Simple,if you read the article she made her comments in response to people comparing the detention centers to Nazi Concentration Camps.




BULL. I watched the entire segment from her show (and suffered the entire time) and there is no talk about anyone comparing them to Nazi concentration camps. She was just trying to rationalize this cruel, inhumane, disgusting policy. Again, gullible people are buying into their propaganda and repeating it.

Also, even if she was saying it in response to someone who said they were like Nazi concentration camps she would still be the person making the stupider point here. They actually meet the Merriam-Webster definition of concentration camp, even if they are obviously not as cruel as Nazi camps. They, in no way, shape, or form, meet the definition of summer camp or boarding school. That comment might actually be the stupidest thing I've ever heard come out of her mouth, and she's really had some doozies.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 2:01:57 PM 


Last Edited: 6/19/2018 3:51:08 PM by Alan Swank

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 2:26:00 PM 
Also, Alan Dershowitz is full of crap. Nobody is saying that these conditions are as bad as Nazi concentration camps. If you can find someone saying that please point me to them. But if "well it's not as bad as the Nazis" is the best we can do then we've certainly devolved to a place that I don't want to be.


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 5:47:35 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.


91% of these parents are are being charged with misdemeanors and it is their first offense. Are there other misdemeanors that are prosecuted this way? How are DUIs handled? How have the Trump admin folks who perjured themselves been handled? A lot of prison sentences prior to a trial? Or are they charged and released? What's the difference here? You seem super intent on making sure that these particular first time misdemeanors are "held accordingly." Do you think anybody who commits a first-time misdemeanor should be tossed in a cage without a trial?

Last Edited: 6/20/2018 8:40:37 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 5:53:36 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.


91% of these parents are are being charged with misdemeanor and it is their first offense. Are there other misdemeanors that are prosecuted this way? How are DUIs handled? How have the Trump admin folks who perjered themselves been handled? A lot of prison sentences prior to a trial? Or are they charged and released? What's the difference here? You seem super intent on making sure that these particular first time misdemeanors are "held accordingly." Do you think anybody who commits a first-time misdemeanor should be tossed in a cage without a trial?



As long as they're not white, it's perfectly appropriate in trumpland.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 7:16:16 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.


You say you don't agree - and then you agree that we need a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities - hence - you do agree we should not be taking children from their parents.

I'm sure you agree that those seeking asylum should not be separated - just as your ancestors and mine were not ripped from their parents when they came here "by the rules."


I think placing illegal alien families in detention facilities,addresses the issue of not separating families,while assuring that the parents who did commit a crime coming here,are assured of being available for their legal process.

I believe the problems with this raised by the courts could be addressed.

Absent that,the current Zero Tolerance policy of enforcing existing laws may finally force Congress to act.

As Lincoln said,(I'm paraphrasing) "the best way to change a bad law is to enforce it".



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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 8:38:32 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
As long as they're not white, it's perfectly appropriate in trumpland.


I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one on BA to wonder if all of this would be taking place on our country's border if the immigrants were white.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/19/2018 9:04:18 PM 
rpbobcat,

Being the Bruce Springsteen fan that you are, I'd like to respectfully suggest that you give two of his less commercially successful albums a listen to tonight - Devils and Dust and Ghost of Tom Joad.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 9:00:05 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The operative word here is "parents".



So you agree - a child brought with a parent should not be separated and someone processed for asylum should not be separated. We are making progress. Now if you agree with that we will move on to those brought under other circumstances.


No I don't agree.

I only pointed out the the operative word in Dershewitz's piece is "parents".
That doesn't apply to a number of the children being detained.

I believe that we should have a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities.
Just rework the "length of stay" to follow the courts' objections.

Absent that,I don't know how you detain the parents,who committed a crime,and are being held accordingly,while keeping their children with them.

If someone can tell me how to accomplish this,I'm all ears.


You say you don't agree - and then you agree that we need a system like that used by President Obama to keep entire families together in detention facilities - hence - you do agree we should not be taking children from their parents.

I'm sure you agree that those seeking asylum should not be separated - just as your ancestors and mine were not ripped from their parents when they came here "by the rules."


I think placing illegal alien families in detention facilities,addresses the issue of not separating families,while assuring that the parents who did commit a crime coming here,are assured of being available for their legal process.

I believe the problems with this raised by the courts could be addressed.

Absent that,the current Zero Tolerance policy of enforcing existing laws may finally force Congress to act.

As Lincoln said,(I'm paraphrasing) "the best way to change a bad law is to enforce it".


Can you share which current law requires separating infants from their parents?
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DelBobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 9:22:35 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
rpbobcat,

Being the Bruce Springsteen fan that you are, I'd like to respectfully suggest that you give two of his less commercially successful albums a listen to tonight - Devils and Dust and Ghost of Tom Joad.



We've already learned that RP just completely ignores the messages in Bruce's music.

Here's another one for you:

Come across the water a thousand miles from home
With nothing in their bellies but the fire down below
They died building the railroads worked to bones and skin
They died in the fields and factories names scattered in the wind
They died to get here a hundred years ago they're still dying now
The hands that built the country were always trying to keep down


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 9:44:40 AM 
And from last night's Broadway show:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jun/20/bruce-sprin...
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 1:49:34 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
And from last night's Broadway show:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jun/20/bruce-sprin...


Saw the show in early May and while he didn't come right out and say things, he did "remind" of us of a human obligation to live in and promote a just world. Sounds like he revved up the message last night.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 3:43:06 PM 
FYI:

Trump signs executive order to stop family separations at border

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/20/trump-signs-ex...

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html .

Itís expected that the executive order will be challenged in court:

ďSources told Fox News that the executive action by Trump could be seen to run afoul of the 1997 order and would likely draw a lawsuit. But the White House wants to try to take steps to uphold the enforcement of the law, while at the same time lessening the trauma of children being separated from their parents.Ē

Itíll be interesting to see who challenges the order, and on what basis.

Last Edited: 6/20/2018 3:53:19 PM by OhioCatFan


Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!
Got Saul . . . and dreams of basketball glory!

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 3:49:01 PM 
Deleted duplicate post.

Last Edited: 6/20/2018 3:53:56 PM by OhioCatFan


Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!
Got Saul . . . and dreams of basketball glory!

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 3:57:39 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
And from last night's Broadway show:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jun/20/bruce-sprin...


Saw the show in early May and while he didn't come right out and say things, he did "remind" of us of a human obligation to live in and promote a just world. Sounds like he revved up the message last night.



What Bruce did,did not go over well with some of the people who were there,including one of my friends.

They didn't have a problem with the PSA,but the fact that he altered the show by inserting his PSA and switching the "set list" by dropping Long Walk Home.

That was the one song he never heard live,so he was looking forward to it.

What Bruce did is a Broadway no no.

After 9/11 a lot of Broadway shows did something to honor the victims of the attack.

I know BLAST had a moment of silence,then played America the Beautiful.

But it was done before the performance started.

They didn't change the show.

Bruce could have done it before or after the actual show.


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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 4:14:43 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
And from last night's Broadway show:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jun/20/bruce-sprin...


Saw the show in early May and while he didn't come right out and say things, he did "remind" of us of a human obligation to live in and promote a just world. Sounds like he revved up the message last night.



What Bruce did,did not go over well with some of the people who were there,including one of my friends.

They didn't have a problem with the PSA,but the fact that he altered the show by inserting his PSA and switching the "set list" by dropping Long Walk Home.

That was the one song he never heard live,so he was looking forward to it.

What Bruce did is a Broadway no no.

After 9/11 a lot of Broadway shows did something to honor the victims of the attack.

I know BLAST had a moment of silence,then played America the Beautiful.

But it was done before the performance started.

They didn't change the show.

Bruce could have done it before or after the actual show.




I remember when CSN&Y played Polaris/Germain when Neil had just released Living with War. Some folks walked out of that one and the guy behind me yelled at them, "what the f&%$, did you think you were coming to see the Osmonds?" It's Bruce's show and he can do whatever he damn well pleases. Sorry if it made some folks uncomfortable. If they had a heart and soul it should have.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/broadway-has-always-...

This quote from last night's show was exactly what we heard on May 2nd. He just chose to add to it:

I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows, to be told anything. But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. Itís a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit. To be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days, when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isnít such a bad thing.

Last Edited: 6/20/2018 4:23:02 PM by Alan Swank

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finnOhio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/20/2018 10:33:04 PM 
So, President Trumpís executive order to keep families together is great but also a tough position for Trump Supporters. If you just spent the last few days defending the policy, itís likely you said that the policy was a good one. Now, the POTUS has basically issued an apology, and his supporters have three choices::
-decide if they stick to your guns previously and now are upset with the POTUS
-change with the POTUS, showing basically that youíll support anything he does and you are a loyalist of the POTUS above all else
OR
-feel that the POTUS was forced into the decision by the media and First Ladies, showing he is not somebody who sticks to his convictions.

Not an easy position for Trump supporters. He doesnít make anything easy for them. Better to support a party than a man. Or, even better, a philosophy.

Last Edited: 6/20/2018 10:33:45 PM by finnOhio

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 6:39:35 AM 
finnOhio wrote:
So, President Trumpís executive order to keep families together is great but also a tough position for Trump Supporters. If you just spent the last few days defending the policy, itís likely you said that the policy was a good one. Now, the POTUS has basically issued an apology, and his supporters have three choices::
-decide if they stick to your guns previously and now are upset with the POTUS
-change with the POTUS, showing basically that youíll support anything he does and you are a loyalist of the POTUS above all else
OR
-feel that the POTUS was forced into the decision by the media and First Ladies, showing he is not somebody who sticks to his convictions.

Not an easy position for Trump supporters. He doesnít make anything easy for them. Better to support a party than a man. Or, even better, a philosophy.


It also lays bare the extent of the administration's lies over the past week. Trump tweeted multiple times that this was a Democratic law (it wasn't), that it could only be fixed by Congress, and he was powerless. Those were all lies. He used the suffering of children as a bargaining chip to get funding for his pointless wall. Drain the swamp, indeed. Infants may grow up parentless because Trump wanted a win on a completely pointless campaign talking point.

By the way, heard more "Lock her up" chants at the Duluth rally last night. I had no idea the "her" in that case was a 2 year old Honduran girl. Remember a few weeks ago when people were so angry at NBC for tweeting a video out of context that made it seem as if the President was calling all immigrants animals? The right was angrier about that than they are about the children of those very same immigrants being detained indefinitely in cages like animals.

Tells you a lot. Racist, inhumane policy is fine. But God forbid somebody suggest the architects of that policy might be racists.

Last Edited: 6/21/2018 6:58:47 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 6:44:38 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


I remember when CSN&Y played Polaris/Germain when Neil had just released Living with War. Some folks walked out of that one and the guy behind me yelled at them, "what the f&%$, did you think you were coming to see the Osmonds?" It's Bruce's show and he can do whatever he damn well pleases. Sorry if it made some folks uncomfortable. If they had a heart and soul it should have.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/broadway-has-always-...

This quote from last night's show was exactly what we heard on May 2nd. He just chose to add to it:

I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows, to be told anything. But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. Itís a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit. To be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days, when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isnít such a bad thing.



Alan,if you read my post,the issue wasn't Bruce's PSA and playing of Joad.
It was inserting it into the show.

This isn't the first time this has come up with SOB.
During the winter Patti missed several shows when she was sick.

Instead of using an understudy,like Soozie Tyrell,he dropped the duets and added different songs.

The N.Y. theater critics were all over the radio talking about it.

They took the position out that this has been billed as a Broadway Show,for which people are paying "Hamilton" prices.
Its not a concert,where Bruce fans look forward to different set lists.

As a Broadway show,a patron has the right to expect the show they paid for.
One critic said,your ticket doesn't say "different show every night".

No different the when John Lithgow,Carey Fisher or Billy Crystal did their one person shows.

Although,in my opinion,what Bruce did when Patti was out was better then "The Boys In The Band".
Jim Parsons hurt his ankle during the curtain call for a Sat. Matinee.
They canceled that night's performance.

As far as the PSA,like I said,do it before or the show or as an "encore".
That's not uncommon on Broadway,including when the casts do PSA's for Actor's Equity.





Last Edited: 6/21/2018 6:45:39 AM by rpbobcat

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 6/21/2018 11:21:28 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:


I remember when CSN&Y played Polaris/Germain when Neil had just released Living with War. Some folks walked out of that one and the guy behind me yelled at them, "what the f&%$, did you think you were coming to see the Osmonds?" It's Bruce's show and he can do whatever he damn well pleases. Sorry if it made some folks uncomfortable. If they had a heart and soul it should have.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/broadway-has-always-...

This quote from last night's show was exactly what we heard on May 2nd. He just chose to add to it:

I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows, to be told anything. But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. Itís a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit. To be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days, when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isnít such a bad thing.



Alan,if you read my post,the issue wasn't Bruce's PSA and playing of Joad.
It was inserting it into the show.

This isn't the first time this has come up with SOB.
During the winter Patti missed several shows when she was sick.

Instead of using an understudy,like Soozie Tyrell,he dropped the duets and added different songs.

The N.Y. theater critics were all over the radio talking about it.

They took the position out that this has been billed as a Broadway Show,for which people are paying "Hamilton" prices.
Its not a concert,where Bruce fans look forward to different set lists.

As a Broadway show,a patron has the right to expect the show they paid for.
One critic said,your ticket doesn't say "different show every night".

No different the when John Lithgow,Carey Fisher or Billy Crystal did their one person shows.

Although,in my opinion,what Bruce did when Patti was out was better then "The Boys In The Band".
Jim Parsons hurt his ankle during the curtain call for a Sat. Matinee.
They canceled that night's performance.

As far as the PSA,like I said,do it before or the show or as an "encore".
That's not uncommon on Broadway,including when the casts do PSA's for Actor's Equity.



I can't speak for Alan but I think he got your point. His point seems to be that it is Bruce's show and he can do whatever he wants, traditions be damned. And I agree. It's not a typical Broadway show. We all get that and if you're a Bruce fan you expect him to address this. I don't care if he does it during the show or before the show, I'm just glad he's speaking out.

It's interesting that you seem more concerned about theater etiquette than about children's lives. Misplaced priorities maybe?


BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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