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Topic: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Topic: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

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Alan Swank
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Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/11/2014 6:38:51 PM

When is the last time the Indians swept a double header? I have no clue but it's a good day to be an Indians fan.

rpbobcat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/12/2014 12:18:37 PM

As long as some one brought up the topic of the Cleveland Indians.

How come there is such an uproar over the Washington Redskins and their logo and nothing,at least that I've heard,regarding the Indians and their logo

To me Chief Wahoo is more offensive then the Redskins logo.

Last Edited: 9/12/2014 12:19:23 PM by rpbobcat

JSF
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/13/2014 1:10:24 PM

I would guess it's partially because they've been phasing Wahoo out. But I do hear complaints about it every now and then.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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RSBobcat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/13/2014 3:04:30 PM

Google search "criticism of chief wahoo" - pages and pages of it come up.

RS Bobcat

bobcatsquared
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/13/2014 5:08:56 PM

One of Ohio's state legislators (from Cincy, I believe) is suggesting a bill to have Cleveland change its nickname.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/14/2014 11:43:26 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

One of Ohio's state legislators (from Cincy, I believe) is suggesting a bill to have Cleveland change its nickname.

I propose the "Mistake on the Lakers."

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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mf279801
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/15/2014 1:11:44 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

One of Ohio's state legislators (from Cincy, I believe) is suggesting a bill to have Cleveland change its nickname.

I propose the "Mistake on the Lakers."

Ha! +1

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/15/2014 8:04:25 PM

Unfortunately, the Indians can beat every team except the one they need most to beat.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/16/2014 12:54:20 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Unfortunately, the Indians can beat every team except the one they need most to beat.

The Astros?

Ohio69
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/17/2014 9:37:56 PM

Cleveland has an uphill climb to make the wildcard. But, at least they are in the mix.

As for dropping Indians for something else, I hope they don't listen to the folks who name the Crew or Blue Jackets. Uhg.

Someone google to see if there have been suggested names. I'm curious.

Would be interesting to officially be the Cleveland Baseball Club and let a knickname occur organically.

Last Edited: 9/17/2014 9:41:51 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

JSF
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/18/2014 8:53:28 AM

Go back to the Spiders.

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/18/2014 10:13:20 AM

JSF wrote:

Go back to the Spiders.

I agree with this. I'm in the minority of Clevelanders, but as an Indians fan the logo makes me wince. It's a disgrace and a relic of a thankfully bygone era.

Just as the days of the Redskins are numbered, so is Chief Wahoo, and the nickname can't be far behind.

Some interesting further reading: http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/the-curse-of-chief-wa...

Ohio69
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/18/2014 11:02:53 AM

JSF wrote:

Go back to the Spiders.

Just googled Cleveland Spiders. I like it.

(Somehow tie in Spiderman and my son may resist my Red Sox brainwashing. Which I'd probably be OK with. He just can't be a Browns fan. Just can't do that to the kid....)

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

JSF
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/18/2014 11:32:03 AM

They were also the Cleveland Blues, which would make for a fun dynamic with the Reds. But I think the Spiders are where it's at.

Bobcatbob
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/18/2014 3:25:33 PM

Naps. As if Indians never happened.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/deaths/nap_lajoie_obituar...

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/20/2014 10:28:51 AM

Thanks for the link. I sometimes forget just how much I love reading baseball history.

JSF
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/20/2014 10:21:58 PM

I hope everyone had a chance to take a History of Baseball class.

MedinaCat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/22/2014 9:07:22 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

Cleveland still in the mix, barely, but this is about where they were at this point last year.

My take is the Redskins could change their offensive name and keep the logo. There is a proposal where the name is changed to the Washington Americans and they keep what some feel is a majestic image of a Native American.

The Indians on the other hand might be able to retain the name Indians if they were to change the offensive, cartoonish logo. If they were to change the name as well, my bet is "The Tribe."

Bobcatbob
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/22/2014 9:26:48 AM

I'm still having a hard time calling M&^%$ teams RedHawks, instead of ********. At this stage of my life the Cleveland American League Baseball Club is always going to be Indians to me but if they did something clever like Stanford did, it might stick. For example, they could have a Walleye as a mascot and call themselves the Azure for what the Lake should look like.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/22/2014 12:42:32 PM

I took them both and loved every second. I'll never forget correcting Mr Alexander on something (I believe the first all future hall of fame infield) and he just called me a smart ass in response. Are the classes and Mr Alexander still around?

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

JSF
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/22/2014 8:16:27 PM

I believe he retired (or semi-retired) but the classes endure.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/23/2014 6:13:06 PM

For what it is worth, probably not much, I think the Indians should keep the name but use a "mascot" (as seen in the logo) that is not cartoonist but is a very manly Indian warrior. Perhaps, they could get the Huron tribe to buy in; as I understand it some of the Hurons are still upset that EMU changed its mascot to the Eagles. I remember reading a statement by one Huron leader who said that very few people even know that there is a tribe with that name and that the EMU mascot was one way to keep their name before the public. Of course, there is Lake Huron, and Huron County, Ohio, but they're not on the sports pages!

In terms of the Redskins, I have somewhat mixed emotions. I concede that in today's society it is seen by many as racist, but the history of the word, if I remember correctly (this is not one of my areas of historical expertise), is that it was a translation from one American aboriginal language of the word they used to describe themselves. A number of tribal languages used words equivalent to "paleface" to describe Northern Europeans. I guess what gets me is that in today's polite society it is OK to use the term "people of color" to describe anyone whose skin color is darker than a Northern European's, but not OK to use the term "Redskin" for a person of aboriginal heritage (i.e. American Indian). Seems hypocritical to some extent to me.

BTW, the 19th Century the term "people of color" was as a friendly and uplifting way to refer to those of African heritage. This was a much more delicate and supportive word than the others used at the time: "colored," "black" and "negro" (generally not capitalized at the time as it was a color reference and not a racial one, per se -- that came later). Those who used the term "people of color" back then tended to be abolitionists, anti-slavery activists, and those supportive of African American civil rights. Today, IMHO, the expansive use of "people of color" to refer to not just African Americans but to anyone not of northern European heritage is inherently racist as it pits Northern Europeans (evil) against all the rest of humanity (good). In truth, there is both good and evil in all parts of the world and in every tribe and nation. Ever wonder why there are no Erie Indians around today? Before the Europeans arrived, the Iroquois (specifically the Senecas) had a war with them and killed nearly every last member of the Erie Tribe. The few that did survive married into other tribes and the Erie Nation disappeared from history.

Last Edited: 10/11/2014 10:43:46 AM by OhioCatFan

cc-cat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/23/2014 10:58:25 PM

But keep in mind that "redskin" was also the term applied to Indian scalps that were turned in for a bounty (as proof of killing an Indian). Though I'm not suggesting that the name of the football team was selected because of this meaning.

http://www.native-languages.org/iaq12.htm

BillyTheCat
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/24/2014 7:13:24 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

For what it is worth, probably not much, I think the Indians should keep the name but use a "mascot" (as seen in the logo) that is not cartoonist but is a very manly Indian warrior. Perhaps, they could get the Huron tribe to buy in; as I understand it some of the Hurons are still upset that EMU changed its mascot to the Eagles. I remember reading a statement by one Huron leader who said that very few people even know that there is a tribe with that name and that the EMU mascot was one way to keep their name before the public. Of course, there is Lake Huron, and Huron County, Ohio, but they're not on the sports pages!

In terms of the Redskins, I have somewhat mixed emotions. I concede that in today's society it is seen by many as racist, but the history of the word, if I remember correctly (this is not one of my areas of historical expertise), is that it was a translation from one American aboriginal language of the word they used to describe themselves. A number of tribal languages used words equivalent to "paleface" to describe Northern Europeans. I guess what gets me is that in today's polite society it is OK to use the term "people of color" to describe anyone whose skin color is darker than a Northern European's, but not OK to use the term "Redskin" for a person aboriginal heritage (i.e. American Indian). Seems hypocritical to some extent to me.

BTW, the 19th Century the term "people of color" was as a friendly and uplifting way to refer to those of African heritage. This was a much more delicate and supportive word than the others used at the time "colored," "black" and "negro" (generally not capitalized at the time as it was a color reference and not a racial one, per se -- that came later). Those who used the term "people of color" back then tended to be abolitionists, anti-slavery activists, and those supportive of African American civil rights. Today, IMHO, the expansive use of "people of color" to refer to not just African Americans but to anyone not of northern European heritage is inherently racist as it pits Northern Europeans (evil) against all the rest of humanity (good). In truth, there is both good and evil in all parts of the world and in every tribe and nation. Ever wonder why there are no Erie Indians around today? Before the Europeans arrived, the Iroquois (specifically the Senecas) had a war with them and killed nearly every last member of the Erie Tribe. The few that did survive married into other tribes and the Erie Nation disappeared from history.

Yeah, every Chief Wahoo mascot/image is cartoonish, and meets the very definition of stereotypes. I'm open to seeing the one that you say is not.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Not sure where to put this - Cleveland Indians

Posted: 9/24/2014 8:20:17 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

For what it is worth, probably not much, I think the Indians should keep the name but use a "mascot" (as seen in the logo) that is not cartoonist but is a very manly Indian warrior. Perhaps, they could get the Huron tribe to buy in; as I understand it some of the Hurons are still upset that EMU changed its mascot to the Eagles. I remember reading a statement by one Huron leader who said that very few people even know that there is a tribe with that name and that the EMU mascot was one way to keep their name before the public. Of course, there is Lake Huron, and Huron County, Ohio, but they're not on the sports pages!

In terms of the Redskins, I have somewhat mixed emotions. I concede that in today's society it is seen by many as racist, but the history of the word, if I remember correctly (this is not one of my areas of historical expertise), is that it was a translation from one American aboriginal language of the word they used to describe themselves. A number of tribal languages used words equivalent to "paleface" to describe Northern Europeans. I guess what gets me is that in today's polite society it is OK to use the term "people of color" to describe anyone whose skin color is darker than a Northern European's, but not OK to use the term "Redskin" for a person aboriginal heritage (i.e. American Indian). Seems hypocritical to some extent to me.

BTW, the 19th Century the term "people of color" was as a friendly and uplifting way to refer to those of African heritage. This was a much more delicate and supportive word than the others used at the time "colored," "black" and "negro" (generally not capitalized at the time as it was a color reference and not a racial one, per se -- that came later). Those who used the term "people of color" back then tended to be abolitionists, anti-slavery activists, and those supportive of African American civil rights. Today, IMHO, the expansive use of "people of color" to refer to not just African Americans but to anyone not of northern European heritage is inherently racist as it pits Northern Europeans (evil) against all the rest of humanity (good). In truth, there is both good and evil in all parts of the world and in every tribe and nation. Ever wonder why there are no Erie Indians around today? Before the Europeans arrived, the Iroquois (specifically the Senecas) had a war with them and killed nearly every last member of the Erie Tribe. The few that did survive married into other tribes and the Erie Nation disappeared from history.

Yeah, every Chief Wahoo mascot/image is cartoonish, and meets the very definition of stereotypes. I'm open to seeing the one that you say is not.

I'm talking about developing a new one -- maybe something based on a real Huron chief or noted warrior. For reasons explained above an Erie chief might not send the right message. :-(

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