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Topic: RE: Jim Christian

Topic: RE: Jim Christian

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:17:12 PM

Ozcat wrote:

Anyone have insight as to if JC has reached out to Dustin?

He's already had one Ford on his staff during his days at Kent. Hopefully he won't mind having the other on on staff at Ohio.

OhioStunter
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:17:31 PM

HeHateMiami wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

but you're also talking the likes of Pitino, Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, Williams and Self in this bunch. Most of HC stats will be below average.

Median may be more telling than average...

I don't think it's any more telling than the average, but here's the median:

games coached: 525
wins: 313

Scott Welsh
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:18:58 PM

Ozcat wrote:

Anyone have insight as to if JC has reached out to Dustin?

I would be willing to bet Dustin follows Groce

Christian is going from "Sit-down Shut-Up" to "Stand up and Cheer" with the O-Zoners

I like it!

OhioStunter
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:19:54 PM

OUVan wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

Those stats are below average compared to the Sweet 16 coaches, but you're also talking the likes of Pitino, Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, Williams and Self in this bunch.

Did you account for vacated wins?

I wish we could have vacated threads.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:26:13 PM

I will say this-I think the JUCO criticism seems to be a little off base. I don't think we as Ohio can be heard to complain too much about JUCOs; one could argue that JUCOs took us on their backs on our last 2 NCAA Tournament runs in Bassett and Offutt. It wasn't solely because of JUCOs we made it that far obviously, but I think that we can all agree that without Bassett and Offutt Ohio would not have gotten as far as it did.

Secondly, perhaps Christian learned his lesson vis-avis JUCOs. In a trying year in 2011 Christian kicks 3 players off his team, at least one of which was a very important JUCO. From one of the articles someone posted on the board, Christian won over the lockerroom after that event, resulting in TCU's best year in recent history this past season.

I said it before and I'll say it again: in Schaus I trust and think Christian deserves a chance to show what he can do.

HeHateMiami
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:32:54 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

one could argue that JUCOs took us on their backs on our last 2 NCAA Tournament runs in Bassett and Offutt.

Remind me what Junior Colleges Bassett and Offutt attended...

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 1:34:03 PM by Mike Coleman

JSF
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:33:59 PM

HeHateMiami wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

but you're also talking the likes of Pitino, Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, Williams and Self in this bunch. Most of HC stats will be below average.

Median may be more telling than average...

When she told me I'm average, she was just being mean.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Mike Coleman
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:34:42 PM

HeHateMiami wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

one could argue that JUCOs took us on their backs on our last 2 NCAA Tournament runs in Bassett and Offutt.

Remind me what Junior Colleges Bassett and Offutt attended...

Offutt went to Wright State....badabing.

EDIT: Don't know how that got posted on Hehate's post. Must be too hasty today.

HeHateMiami
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:38:04 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

HeHateMiami wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

one could argue that JUCOs took us on their backs on our last 2 NCAA Tournament runs in Bassett and Offutt.

Remind me what Junior Colleges Bassett and Offutt attended...

Offutt went to Wright State....badabing.

EDIT: Don't know how that got posted on Hehate's post. Must be too hasty today.

I was trying to make a sly point that both of them were transfers, not JUCOs.

Mike Coleman
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:39:51 PM

HeHateMiami wrote:

Mike Coleman wrote:

HeHateMiami wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

one could argue that JUCOs took us on their backs on our last 2 NCAA Tournament runs in Bassett and Offutt.

Remind me what Junior Colleges Bassett and Offutt attended...

Offutt went to Wright State....badabing.

EDIT: Don't know how that got posted on Hehate's post. Must be too hasty today.

I was trying to make a sly point that both of them were transfers, not JUCOs.

I was trying to make a sly point that Wright State isn't much more than a JUCO

TheRealMikeDrake
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:41:52 PM

I'm not sure how telling this is, but I was curious, so I'll share. Real interested to see who is on his staff and determine where we might recruit. Might be a little off, and it's from rivals, but whatever. It's easily accessible, and close enough for a first look.

2002-03

Cliff Brown PF Ferndale, MI Ferndale 6'7" 221 Played 2 years, transferred to Niagara

Armon Gates SG Wolfeboro, NH Brewster Academy 6'2" 185 Played 4 years, now assistant coach. Spent time with Geno and Jim, now at Loyola.

DeAndre Haynes PG Detroit, MI Detroit Southwestern 6'0" 175 Played 4 years

2003-04

Scott Cutley SF Torrance, CA Westchester 6'6" 220 Played 2 years, transferred to Cal State Fullerton

Demetrius Johnson SG Cleveland, OH Warrensville Heights 6'5" 170 Played 2 years, transferred to IPFW

Rashard Turner PG Peekskill, NY Maine Central Institute 5'9" 175 Played 1 year, then went to CC, then to Maine

2004-05

Marcus Crenshaw PG Detroit, MI Mackenzie 5'10" 165 Played 1 year, transferred to Cal State Fullerton

Isaac Knight PF Detroit, MI Crockett 6'7" 205 Played 4 years

Mike Scott SF Indianapolis, IN Northwest 6'6" 180 Played 4 years

2005-06

Omni Smith SG Chicago, IL Eastfield (Tex.) College 6'3" 170 Played 2 years (JUCO)

Julian Sullinger SF Columbus, OH Fork Union Military Academy (Va.) 6'5" 200 Played 4 years

Mike McKee SG Plum, PA 6'4" 175 Played 4 years

2006-07

Rodriquez Sherman PG Indianapolis, IN Ben Davis 6'2" 175 Played 4 years

Thurman Sutton SG Long Beach, CA LA Harbor 6'4" 180 Ended up at Cal State Dominguez Hills

Chris Singletary SG Chicago, IL Florida Prep Academy 6'3" 200 Played 4 years

2007-08

Antonio DiMaria SF Pittsburgh, PA Patterson School (N.C.) 6'6" 200 Played 1 year, ended up at Emporia State

Albert Fisher PG El Reno, OK Redlands C.C. 6'0" 175 Played 2 years (transfer in)

Gabriel Garcia C Brazil Schoolcraft College (Mich.) 7'0" 244 Played 1 year

Rashad Woods SF Houston, TX Angelina C.C. 6'6" 230 Played 1 year, then dismissed in 2nd

OU didn't know
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:42:02 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Stunter-another news flash/question...in comparison what were the wins for JG? I think he was a Sweet Sixteen Coach. Dag, I guess JC is much more qualified than JG!

You just can't logically compare the two situations in any way. Groce was offered a head coaching job at a place where basketball is king, that has the potential to be a national power, is in what was the top conference in college basketball this year, that's about to spend well over $100 mill renovating Alumni Hall over the next few years, and of course, offered him $1.4 mill a year.

Christian was at a school that wasn't willing to commit money to the b-ball program as football is obviously what got them into the SEC. While being in the SEC may help recruiting to an extent, the TCU basketball program would be bottom of the barrel in the SEC. He saw a better opportunity come up (much like Groce), in a conference he knows, with a loaded team returning from a sweet-16 run, at a school committed to building their basketball program, at seemingly equal or higher pay, and at a school that wishes to become more than just a decent mid-major.

At first I was a bit shocked, most likely because I never thought we'd be hiring a guy who was currently a HC, but the more I think about it the more I like it. His teams at Kent were always extremely tough, physical, and played hard-nosed defense. This team needs defense to be it's identity, and it's not going to change with Christian coming in. His teams at Kent did play a bit slower than we've seen from JG teams the last couple years, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see his offense speed up a little bit considering the current roster.

This hire (and the finances) tell me the administration is committed to building a program. I really don't think Schaus wanted to turn this experienced team over to a rookie head coach. I just can't believe some people are so up in arms when we are getting a guy with four MAC East titles, two regular season titles, two tournament titles, and two MAC coach of the year awards on his resume. He's the winningest coach in the history of the conference and is still only 47 years old. Maybe he didn't turn TCU into a power, but that place was a mess when he got there and it seemed like they were starting to turn the corner.

If there's one thing I trust Schaus to do, it's to hire a basketball coach.

Bobcat110
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:42:06 PM

HeHateMiami wrote:

Mike Coleman wrote:

HeHateMiami wrote:

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

one could argue that JUCOs took us on their backs on our last 2 NCAA Tournament runs in Bassett and Offutt.

Remind me what Junior Colleges Bassett and Offutt attended...

Offutt went to Wright State....badabing.

EDIT: Don't know how that got posted on Hehate's post. Must be too hasty today.

I was trying to make a sly point that both of them were transfers, not JUCOs.

Well...Bassett acted like a JUCO...and OSU is...well...OSU...so I can see the confusion.

DublinCat
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:42:50 PM

I see no problem with a few junior college transfers. We have had several teams that were just one Ed Sears away from being VERY good. One could say the same of our recent Big Ten transfers in Sanderson, Bassett and Offut. All three were huge in the teams success.

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 1:44:15 PM by DublinCat

OU87

JC Forever
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:43:01 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I like what I see in terms of Christian's non conference schedules while he was at KSU. It looks like it was a good mix of solid mid-majors (Detroit, Illinois State, St. Louis, George Mason, Cleveland State, Southern Illinois, Creighton) and major conference teams. Kent State played Boston College, Rutgers, Temple, Butler, and Xavier at home while Christian was there, and went on the road to play BC, Florida State, Syracuse, Ohio State, Duke, Marquette and UNC.

The guy won games at Kent State and seems to know how to put together a tough schedule that wont hurt his RPI, too.

I really like this hire the more I look into it.

KSU plays Cleveland State every season. It's a rivalry game. The Southern Illinois, Creighton, Butler and George Mason games were Bracketbusters games/return BB games. The Xavier and BC games were played on a neutral court, not at the MACC. The game against Xavier was played as part of a tournament.

JSF
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:43:14 PM

Kent fans respond.

OU didn't know
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:46:22 PM

Also, both Mychael Green and Terren Harbut were JUCO's, and both played major roles in our tourney run in '05. We never would have gone to the NCAA's without those two. JUCO's aren't all bad, and sometimes you need one or two to round to balance out classes and round out the roster, but you certainly can't rely on them to build a program.

.
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:49:17 PM

This may be my favorite.

Didn't you know guys? Ohio backed its way into the Sweet 16. And then almost backed its way into the Elite Eight. I say we say it never happened. It was a shameful Sweet 16 run.

I just read it too. Some of it is quite humorous, though. They were an inch from being taken into OT in the semis by Buffalo, beat Akron by one in the final, beat an average UM team in the NCAA tournament, then a USF team who many felt shouldn't even have been in the field and then lost to a UNC team missing its best player and the fans think if JC doesn't get them to the Elite Eight or Final Four he's a disgrace.

Casper71
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:50:03 PM

Yep...it will be interesting. I have NOT been a fan of DJ and his shot selection and ability to make a really stupid play every once in a while. On the other hand, JG said he learned about letting kids play and let them do just that and it worked out this year. Iguess JC will be different and only time will tell IF it works out.

Ozcat
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:51:22 PM

DublinCat wrote:

I seem to remember this guy named Mychal Green too . . .

I don't mind a JUCO here and there, but I really would like to see a continuation of the 'championship' player mindset. I'm hoping Jim recruits the kids who are used to playing deep into tournament runs.

Bobcat110
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 2:07:53 PM

OU didn't know wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Stunter-another news flash/question...in comparison what were the wins for JG? I think he was a Sweet Sixteen Coach. Dag, I guess JC is much more qualified than JG!

I think you're responding upon reading only half the conversation but it's got me confused too. OhioStunter did some comparison of number of wins that Sweet Sixteen Coaches had and their tenure. I didn't quite understand it either...I think his point was that JC's winning percentage was low versus the average Sweet Sixteen team that included names like Calipari, Matta, Williams, Self, etc. Of course, JC took over a TCU club that had nothing and receives nothing in support, which has really killed JC's win percentage. Casper responded suggesting a head-to-head comparison of JC/JG winning percentages. Then Ohio Stunter said JG was 15th best coach in the Sweet Sixteen (I think based on wins/not winning percentage). We could do a salary comparison of Sweet Sixteen coaches...We paid Groce about $350,000 base salary...so that's $175,000 per win...Izzo makes $3.6 Million..so they paid $1.8 M per win..not sure what it means to this thread though.
======================================================

My thoughts on the JUCO issue: When you don't have a program that can draw recruits (TCU), then you do what you can to bring talent in other means. I think it's the only way he could jump start that program. JC should be able to do better drawing recruits to Ohio...they've had strong recent success and good facilities. 3/4ths the battle is getting the recruit on campus. Any recruit in the area not going to a BCS school should be at least willing to visit Ohio and let the program/facilities sell themselves.

Chicken George
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 2:09:47 PM

Interesting quote from that Kent St board that caught my attention:

"I was thinking this could be a disaster for OU in the short-term. If anyone can rattle cages, its Jim. OU probably doesn't want cages rattled too much, with the talent they have coming back. For OU, the status quo is the best thing for the next year.
However, in 2-4 years, we will all be bowing down to Ohio. "

OUVan
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 2:09:51 PM

Brian Smith wrote:

There is a lot of unintentional comedy on their board. I like the downplaying of Christian's success because the MAC was down then. I should wait a week or so and start a thread blasting their 20 win streak because it was done against a "weak" MAC and watch them spin themselves dizzy.

Bobcat110
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 2:14:23 PM

Brian Smith wrote:

I'm sure he meant "Average Big Ten Co-Champion Michigan" team? And a UNC team that had 3 NBA likely First Round picks on the court (Zeller, Barnes, Henson)?

OU didn't know
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 2:20:42 PM

Bobcat110 wrote:

OU didn't know wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Stunter-another news flash/question...in comparison what were the wins for JG? I think he was a Sweet Sixteen Coach. Dag, I guess JC is much more qualified than JG!

Yeah...I think I misread what he was saying (or trying to say). For some reason I read it as him saying we offered Christian more money than JG, but I was just pointing out that the opportunity was too much to pass up.

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