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Topic: RE: Jim Christian

Topic: RE: Jim Christian

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brucecuth
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:18:57 PM

regarding complaints about the hire, we heard the same thing 4 years ago from a few folks on this board almost demanding to know why John Rhodes wasn't chosen...

Vent all you want, but it simply doesn't matter...

Voice of Reason
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:19:11 PM

Just wanted to stress this again...I am sure the process, while quick, was thorough and deliberate. Schaus knows his job security is based on the coaches he hires and fires and more specifically on football and men's basketball. He is not going to make an rash or impulse decision. Can we just throw that idea out of all future discussion?

DublinCat
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:19:33 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Jerry86 wrote:

Chuck_IV wrote:

I just don't understand why our AD even went after this guy, when you have the likes of Jeff Boals and Dustin Ford right under your nose. Also, why did the AD even talk tot he players and ask them what they wanted, then, from the looks of it, go completely against what they wanted?

This guy has a terrible record at TCU and showed no recruiting ability. Why, if we want to take this program up a notch, do we think he can do any better here?

This just doesn't sit well with me at ALL. It seems our program went from euphoric highs last week, to depressing lows this week.

And exactly how many games have Boals or Dustin won as a Head Coach? Recall the days or Dale Bandy or Billy Hahn, assistant coaches here elevated to Head Coach and things not working out?

Say what you want but Christian's numbers blow away any coach we've had. 73% MAC wins. Groce had 53%.

Rather than giving Christian a chance many of you have already written him off. Classy!

He was hired for a reason. He was offered $600K (if that's what it is) for a reason as well. I seriously doubt any of the negative posters had any insight into the hiring process. Rather than attack the guy I'll wait for the presser and then wait and see how he actually does next year. And if a player of two wants to leave that's their preogative. Everyone can be replaced.

Unless you are in a position of power with Ohio athletics your choices are simple: Support the AD and the new coach and give them a fair shot to prove themselves, or get off the bandwagon. Complaining about the coaching hire isn't going to get anyone anywhere. I have my reservations about Jim Christian, but I can't argue with his MAC results and winning percentage. I will never complain about OUr school's coach if we're consistently in the top 3 teams in our conference and threatening to go to NCAA/NIT games. I would certainly like to hope that the senior/junior class jumps on board with him and says "let's be even better next year".

How many (top 3) finishes have we had in the past 15 years? I count one. That leaves room for a lot of complaining.

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 12:20:24 PM by DublinCat

OU87

CATman
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:21:38 PM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

You mention that the coach suspended his 3 best players and that is the reason why their performance was so bad. WELL...Weren't these his recruits...WHAT does this tell you about his recruiting strength... he loves JUCO's and bad habits are hard to break.

I don't think it is smart to generalize cause / effect. Were the 3 suspended players all JUCO recruits? Or are you just assuming that at this point? I don't mean that in an inflammatory way, just curious as to how much you have looked in to it?

In terms of him recruiting JUCO guys, many times that is a product of your situation. At TCU specifically, their fans have referenced how hard it is to recruit there. To survive in such a situation (conference bottom feeder, sub par facilities, little fan support / interest, etc.) sometimes you have to recruit junior college players to have enough talent. Ultimately that's what basketball comes down to: the right combination of coaching AND talent.

I don't think he'll have ANY of the challenges he did at TCU.

At Ohio he...

- Has support from the administration.
- A track record of success (13 NCAA appearances, 3 in the past 8 years).
- A commitment to improve facilities.
- Potentially a great team in year 1 (i.e. non rebuild).
- A job in the top third of the conference food chain (not the bottom third).
- More consistent recruiting opportunities.

Does that guarantee success? Well, no but the whole TCU thing (record, stats, etc.) is way down my list of things to worry about when assessing a coaching hire. He was fighting a constant uphill battle there.

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 12:33:59 PM by CATman

My high school basketball coach had an old saying.....There are two things that don't last: Dogs that chase cars and teams that don't make free-throws.

OU_Country
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:27:04 PM

DublinCat wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Jerry86 wrote:

Chuck_IV wrote:

I just don't understand why our AD even went after this guy, when you have the likes of Jeff Boals and Dustin Ford right under your nose. Also, why did the AD even talk tot he players and ask them what they wanted, then, from the looks of it, go completely against what they wanted?

This guy has a terrible record at TCU and showed no recruiting ability. Why, if we want to take this program up a notch, do we think he can do any better here?

This just doesn't sit well with me at ALL. It seems our program went from euphoric highs last week, to depressing lows this week.

And exactly how many games have Boals or Dustin won as a Head Coach? Recall the days or Dale Bandy or Billy Hahn, assistant coaches here elevated to Head Coach and things not working out?

Say what you want but Christian's numbers blow away any coach we've had. 73% MAC wins. Groce had 53%.

Rather than giving Christian a chance many of you have already written him off. Classy!

He was hired for a reason. He was offered $600K (if that's what it is) for a reason as well. I seriously doubt any of the negative posters had any insight into the hiring process. Rather than attack the guy I'll wait for the presser and then wait and see how he actually does next year. And if a player of two wants to leave that's their preogative. Everyone can be replaced.

Unless you are in a position of power with Ohio athletics your choices are simple: Support the AD and the new coach and give them a fair shot to prove themselves, or get off the bandwagon. Complaining about the coaching hire isn't going to get anyone anywhere. I have my reservations about Jim Christian, but I can't argue with his MAC results and winning percentage. I will never complain about OUr school's coach if we're consistently in the top 3 teams in our conference and threatening to go to NCAA/NIT games. I would certainly like to hope that the senior/junior class jumps on board with him and says "let's be even better next year".

How many (top 3) finishes have we had in the past 15 years? I count one. That leaves room for a lot of complaining.

We've had just a few. Jim Christian while at Kent had, if I'm reading reports right, a top 3 finish and postseason play five of six years. I will not complain about that type of result for any reason.

Bobcat2005
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:40:24 PM

My biggest fear is after next season. How far off does the skill and output fall with our backups and any possible recruits?

Everyone says that this guy is JUCO crazy most of the time....has that changed at TCU?

Bobcat Debate 73
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:42:15 PM

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/mac-engel/tcu/

From my limited scan of Christian's TChistianU career and his earlier Kent career, I am more confident than some of you. I hope the team embraces this coach. He really took over a problematic program at TCU. During those four years, he steadily was building. Not a bad season this year; he had some excellent victories. He suspended his highest scoring player indefinitely in January of 2011, and the player did not come back this year. His 2011 recruiting class had two Rival three star recruits and some JUCOS -- one who earned a place in the starting lineup. One of the threes was a Providence point guard recruit who decommitted, and was sought by UVA and others. Christian won the recruiting battle over Texas Tech and Virginia. He recruited a class with 3 Rival three stars this year. I believe this guy can recruit, and I believe he is an excellent floor coach. I believe those in the know in Texas do not blame him for the the TCU record the first three years. TCU has been a football school and is attempting to make the transition to a basketball power and has not provided the support necessary to do that. See the hyperlink above. This guy needs to be given a chance. I believe that if our team embraces him, we will have another extraordinary season next year.

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 1:48:52 PM by Bobcat Debate 73

OUVan
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:42:43 PM

Voice of Reason wrote:

Just wanted to stress this again...I am sure the process, while quick, was thorough and deliberate.

The thing is that any AD has a list of guys that can be a potential replacement at all times. They know who they want should something happen. There is no "Oh crap, we just lost our coach. I'd better start putting together a list."

Chuck_IV
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:47:01 PM

ANyone check out the Kent boards to see what they are saying? I'd be curious to hear.

Class of 88

giacomo
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:47:03 PM

One of the things most people on this board do not understand is how scarce these head coaching jobs are. Trust me, if Boals were offered the job, he would jump on it. He's not waiting for something better, for it may never come his way. IMO, our administration wants to step up the program and is willing to pay for the chance to do so. The MAC has traditionally only hired former assistants and kept a lid on salaries. This certainly breaks the mold. Having an experienced coach with what we have coming back is certainly a step in the right direction, but there are many hurdles to jump if we really want to improve. Scheduling is the first priority that must be addressed. That and the small market nature of the MAC cities. Good luck and see what unfolds.

Jerry86
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:49:04 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

What he did in the MAC was 8 years ago

2008 was eight years ago?

Same thought here -- non-math major I'm sure!

OhioStunter
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:52:57 PM

I took a look at this year's Sweet 16 coaches and what their experience levels were:

Average games as head coach: 505
Average wins as head coach: 361

JC has 325 games as a head coach and 193 wins (.594). Those stats are below average compared to the Sweet 16 coaches, but you're also talking the likes of Pitino, Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, Williams and Self in this bunch. Most of HC stats will be below average.

The point is that if we want a coach to take our team to the Sweet 16 again, we might want to put some stock into experience and wins vs. a young rookie head coach.

We're not rebuilding. We're built.

We are OHIO.

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 12:54:35 PM by OhioStunter

Jerry86
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:54:36 PM

Chuck_IV wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I don't know what to say, but we are owed a full explanation as to the process and thoroughness of this hire. .

Please.

We are not OWED anything.

YOu vote with your support. SImple. Straightforward.

Been through the coaching change once and you are not given anything, you sign with a university to play ball, you roll withthe change.

YOu support your University. If you don't like the prez, the BOT or the coach that is hired you vote with your support.

Umm, no, Some of us vote with our wallet through donations. I suspect if he wants to continue to see the donations and support from people, he will have to explain why he made this choice.

Then quit donating $$. Quit donating before Christian even coaches his 1st game. Clearly he's a bad choice in many posters eyes. Go pout since you didn't get Boals or Ford.

OUBob
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:55:39 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

We're not rebuilding. We're built.

We are OHIO.

And reloadable.

n00b

HeHateMiami
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:56:27 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

but you're also talking the likes of Pitino, Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, Williams and Self in this bunch. Most of HC stats will be below average.

Median may be more telling than average...

OhioCatFan
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:57:38 PM

If he's offering the $600,000 as is being reported in some places, then perhaps he already has some big donors who are upping the ante. It looks like an exciting time to be a Bobcat.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

OUVan
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:02:26 PM

Chuck_IV wrote:

ANyone check out the Kent boards to see what they are saying? I'd be curious to hear.

Haven't checked out the Kent boards but this is from the MAC board from a Kent fan:

More Pro’s:
1. Fans ought to like JC. He’s authentic, intense and entertaining.
2. Certainly understands the MAC and has had loads of success in this league.
3. He knows how to beat Keith Dambrot, which is important for the Bobcats next year.
4. He’ll be at Ohio until he decides to stop coaching or Ohio decides he stops coaching.
5. If he gets Ohio to give him $600K in the year before he’s not renewed at TCU, he’s brilliant.

More Con’s:
1. He was successful in the MAC when the MAC was a weaker league.
2. He never won a post season game at Kent. He was 0-5 and the games weren’t close. In fact, the NCAA games were blow outs.
3. He couldn’t prove he could do more with more. He was 56-73 at TCU. Reasonable to suspect that with one year left at no renewal before he moves to the Big 12, JC saw the writing on the wall.
4. He’s built two programs on “risky” recruits. If you like Chris Singletary, you’ll love Jim Christian.

Pro or Con, depending on your view
Given that Ohio loses a lot next year, expect to see him load up on JC players and transfers for 2013-14. On the pro side, it can keep a program competitive during rebuilding On the con side, a program is always rebuilding. It seems like it takes a JUCO a year to adjust and a year to deliver.

PRO for KSU
Rob Senderoff is JC’s best friend. They were “twin” head coaches at KSU. He knows JC”s coaching preferences better than anyone else. We will always be ready for this game.

OUVan
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:04:11 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Those stats are below average compared to the Sweet 16 coaches, but you're also talking the likes of Pitino, Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, Williams and Self in this bunch.

Did you account for vacated wins?

Jerry86
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:06:31 PM

PalmerFest wrote:

Drewbenz24 wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Some of the best news to me is that Ohio is going to pay its next coach in the range of $600,000. I'm excited that the university is putting that kind of money into the program.

I agree, but where are we getting this money? Just a week ago we were trying to raise money to keep Groce and now suddenly we are able to pay a coach $600,000.

I'm not sure that it will be 600K. My guess is that it will be around 400K. The article said the money was "comparable". Cost of living is pretty high in DallasFW.

Per Dispatch article it will be near $600K.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2012/04/02...

And note that Schaus reportedly stated:

Schaus reportedly met with Christian on Thursday in New Orleans during the run-up to the Final Four. He said he wanted a dynamic and energetic coach to turn the program into a mid-major powerhouse similar to Gonzaga, Butler and Virginia Commonwealth.

So if we wanna be a mid-major power then we have to pay the going rate. And clearly $300K wasn't going to do it. I applaud Schaus for making this commitment. And it's what a lot of posters have been wanting -- so now Christian has to execute. And I'm sure he knows it.

Last Edited: 4/2/2012 1:08:18 PM by Jerry86

Casper71
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:07:09 PM

Stunter-another news flash/question...in comparison what were the wins for JG? I think he was a Sweet Sixteen Coach. Dag, I guess JC is much more qualified than JG!

jofredr
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:10:06 PM

(Reposting this, as was suggested)
First off, if these rumors are true, you have a very good coach.  I'm writing this as TCU fan, and because he is a very good guy, who is a tireless worker and i felt had a tough road at TCU. Obviously he was very successful at Kent State and it didnt translate to wins for TCU.    There are some very important reasons for this:

1) TCU is a 100% football school, and gave virtually no fan and financial support to the basketball team. The Daniel-Meyer Coliseum's capacity is something like 7,000 and even when they were winning this year, we never had more than 5,000 people show up. For the most part, basketball is largely ignored and the outdated facilities show that as well, making it difficult to recruit Texas area kids with a glut of Texas schools that have better things to offer. Recruiting top notch HS kids was always difficult for TCU, however in the past 2 years he had a solid core of 4 year players on the roster (Kyan Anderson -2012 MWC fresh of the year, Amric Fields - 2012 MWC 6th man of the year, and Garlon Green (brother of NBA Gerald Green) and coming next year (2 solid 2-3* Texas guards). Plus he was able to keep TCU in the running for Julius Randle, who til this day has always maintained he is seriously considering TCU because of Coach Christian and the coaching staff.   Pretty impressive actually since he had never recruited in this area before. It is true he has been JUCO heavy in these 4 years but I think, its been much harder to recruit to TCU than anybody anticipated. What gets forgotten is that he was able to recruit 2 transfers (from Virginia Tech, and Temple) who were vital parts of this 2011 team.

2) He inherited a disaster. When he took over the team, he had 4 players on the roster. 4.   The talent level was pathetic and basically had 1 good player (Langford). The first 2 years were 14 and 13 win season. Which brings us to last year. A disaster at 11-22, mainly because of the dismissal of his best player (a player that changed his committment from Kent State to follow him to TCU) and 2 other players (i believe both JUCO's) . It is widely accepted however that this led to an increased respect in the locker room that allowed the team to be significantly closer. What followed was one of the best seasons in TCU in nearly a decade. 17 wins (including over New Mexico, UNLV and Virginia) and a trip to the CBI (I know, but still).

Lastly, it is widely considered that TCU, after many years, is finally headed in the right direction. Entering the big 12 is going to be a disaster in the short term but a recruiting boost is anticipated. Hopefully a new coach will come in keep the momentum going for us.   Best of luck, and maybe see you in the tourney some day?

Ozcat
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:10:28 PM

Anyone have insight as to if JC has reached out to Dustin?

Voice of Reason
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:13:58 PM

Jerry86 wrote:

PalmerFest wrote:

Drewbenz24 wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Some of the best news to me is that Ohio is going to pay its next coach in the range of $600,000. I'm excited that the university is putting that kind of money into the program.

I agree, but where are we getting this money? Just a week ago we were trying to raise money to keep Groce and now suddenly we are able to pay a coach $600,000.

I'm not sure that it will be 600K. My guess is that it will be around 400K. The article said the money was "comparable". Cost of living is pretty high in DallasFW.

Per Dispatch article it will be near $600K.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2012/04/02...

And note that Schaus reportedly stated:

Schaus reportedly met with Christian on Thursday in New Orleans during the run-up to the Final Four. He said he wanted a dynamic and energetic coach to turn the program into a mid-major powerhouse similar to Gonzaga, Butler and Virginia Commonwealth.

So if we wanna be a mid-major power then we have to pay the going rate. And clearly $300K wasn't going to do it. I applaud Schaus for making this commitment. And it's what a lot of posters have been wanting -- so now Christian has to execute. And I'm sure he knows it.

And what do you need to build a mid-major powerhouse? Stability. I believe this hire brings that.

OUVan
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:15:36 PM

Thanks for the insight jofredr (twice).

OhioStunter
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RE: Jim Christian

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:16:19 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Stunter-another news flash/question...in comparison what were the wins for JG? I think he was a Sweet Sixteen Coach. Dag, I guess JC is much more qualified than JG!

My comparison wasn't between Christian and Groce. It was between Christian and a coach that had no head coaching experience.

Groce was 15 out of 16 with 141 games and 85 wins.

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