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Topic: RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Topic: RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

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anorris
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/22/2010 12:19:32 AM

giacomo wrote:

Valpo, Santa Clara, Marshall , St. Bonnie, Oakland,Robert Morris and Ill St are NOT solid names. They are solid only in that they are not Southwestern North Dakota Tech and their ilk.

Solid names are Big Ten, Big East, etc. teams.

I'd much rather play Robert Morris & Illinois State than DePaul, Rutgers, or Northwestern, frankly.

giacomo
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/26/2010 4:08:22 PM

And as Junior Soprano once said " I'd rather bleep Angie Dickinson".

anorris
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/26/2010 7:57:57 PM

So, what you're saying is you'd rather play a game based on name than the quality of the team.

OUVan
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/27/2010 9:41:22 AM

anorris wrote:

So, what you're saying is you'd rather play a game based on name than the quality of the team.

Not only that but apparently he'd rather play them on the road since those teams won't come here.

HeHateMiami
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/27/2010 2:08:05 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Neither of these teams should beat the Bobcats, but they have enough going on to give Ohio a decent run if the Bobcats don't come to play or show the normal early season jitters.

Read: If half the roster is suspended, or awaiting fall grades as has been typical over the past few years.

I know, I know, I'm a ray of sunshine.

Join the hundreds... Become an Ohio Basketball Fan on Facebook

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/28/2010 7:01:32 PM

New Jersey Tech! CLAP! New Jersey Tech! CLAP! And watch out for the umbrellas...

Danger, Will Robinson!

giacomo
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/29/2010 12:36:54 PM

Names apparently mean something. When you say Big Ten or Big East or ACC, don't you get an impression of the caliber of the competition? Why do those conferences get multiple bids when the MAC and Northeastern and their ilk get only one? Just because Robert Morris had a few good years, doesn't mean they will continue that streak. The odds are that they revert back to the mean. And, yes, if we have to play them on the road, so be it. Is Santa Clara a road game? If it is, we might as well play at UCLA, as our chances of winning are about as good on that long of a trip.

Monroe Slavin, CPA
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/29/2010 5:39:48 PM

SOS matters little. What matters is the paint job being laid on the floor now. That will get us into the tourney for sure.

Ohio Hoops
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 7/29/2010 7:02:49 PM

Names are not as big of a deal in basketball as it is in football. Your judged on having a good year by your SOS and your RPI in the eyes of the selection committee. So if you can schedule Bobby Mo when they are good and avoid scheduling Virginia when they are bad then that is much better for your overall resume. Santa Clara is game two in the two game deal of the Vegas trip where we play Kansas.

giacomo
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/2/2010 12:00:17 PM

I agree with your comment. However, Robby Mo is unlikely to continue to be that strong every year, while a team such as Virginia will be strong more often. The schedules are made a few years in advance, with some exceptions. My point is this: what do we have to lose by playing a very strong schedule? It's slim to none that we get at-large bid because the MAC has been so weak top to bottom. I would play 4 big ten teams every year on the road.

perimeterpost
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/2/2010 12:25:57 PM

I remember after we beat Miami in the tourney how everyone was saying that they should get an at large bid because they got beat by Kentucky, Dayton, Cincinnati, Temple, and Xavier.

Oh wait, no I don't.

But I do remember when we beat Miami at home and the clip of our fans storming the court made it onto Sportscenter. I think the comments were something like "they're awefully excited about beating a team thats 12-16", and not "look how excited they are about beating a team that also lost to a lot of other teams too, some of which were really good.".

Flomo-genized
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/2/2010 12:41:49 PM

Two points. First, in basketball, unlike football, a significant percentage of the non-conference schedule is not set years in advance. Some of the slate will be set ahead of time, via multi-year scheduling agreements, but a lot of a hoop team's schedule is constructed in the immediately proceeding months. So teams do have an ability to more accurately gauge how strong a particular opponent will be in the season they are scheduled, and don't need to simply schedule power conference teams in the hopes that they will be good.

Second, the harm of overscheduling is that you can kill the confidence of a young team by repeatedly getting blown out. 8 of our 11 eligible scholarship players this year will be freshmen and sophomores. The downside of playing a murderous schedule with that type of inexperience is much greater than the upside. I don't think that last year's team would have been better served by playing 3 more Pitt-type opponents in the non-conference schedule, and in fact could have been substantially hurt from it.

While I'd like to see one more lower level, BCS conference road game on this year's schedule, overall I think this schedule fits the experience and talent level of the team quite nicely. If we can put up a big win total this year, with a couple of the better mid-majors on the schedule having strong years, along with a win versus Kansas or Temple, and we will be on the bubble should we fail to win the tournament in Cleveland.

Last Edited: 8/2/2010 12:48:18 PM by Flomo-genized

OhioCatFan
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/2/2010 7:55:54 PM

My take: The schedule is not great, but it's better than last year; so the trend line is in the right direction. Perhaps, the AD and JG know what they are doing, slowly increasing the level of competition as a young team matures. Naah! That couldn't possibly be the case. (And, BTW, we've had name teams in the Convo in the past, and can again. I suspect we'll see some over the next few years, exclusive of Temple.)

As I type this Fox News is reporting that we are #2 in the Princeton Party School survey. They spelled our name right and used the AttackCat logo. So it's not all bad. As I understand it our students stuff the ballot box every year on this poll so it's not very scientific. Interesting that we were beat out by UGA. Is it something about the name Athens?

Last Edited: 8/2/2010 7:58:16 PM by OhioCatFan

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

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Ohio Hoops
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 11:03:42 AM

Agree with FLOMO 100%. I would have liked one more game against a high major team but too many high major teams can wear out a team for no reason. Our best shot to make the tournament is to leave that destiny in our own hands. To do that we have to be healthy and clicking by January in order to be one of the top four teams for the MAC tournament.

OUVan
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 2:19:37 PM

Ohio Hoops wrote:

I agree. I think this is a good schedule. The majority of the teams are about what we will face during the conference season which ultimately is what we have to get ready for. A couple games against elite teams are nice but too many can be problematic. Fiami screws itself every year by overscheduling and limping in with a record under .500 after the OOC schedule. I would much rather see us schedule a home and home against the likes of Illinois State, Marshall, Valpo, St. Bonaventure, and Robert Morris than play 80% of our games on the road every year. Plus the season is long. Sometimes is nice to have a breather where young guys can get some confidence and you can play your whole bench.

giacomo
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 2:34:25 PM

"young guys, young guys", blah, blah, blah. They are YOUNG and should be able to play whatever schedule is put in front of them. When I was younger and searching the playgrounds to play I didn't go to places where I could dominate. I sought out places where there were older guys, guys who played in college at that time or had played in college or pros. Sometimes they kicked my a@#, but sometimes I held my own. And you know what? I got better and more confident and was able to grow my game. I never felt good about beating inferior competition or even playing with guys my own age, because I wouldn't get better. Why does everyone want to coddle these guys???

Perimeterpost, we don't get points for just showing up and losing to the better teams on the road. But, you never can beat them if you don't play them. If you aspire to be the best, you have to play and beat the best. That's what Jim Snyder did. You can all say that it's different now, but that's what he did. And he was able to get some pretty good players to come to Athens to play. Good players aren't afraid of playing anyone.

Ohio Hoops
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 3:30:16 PM

Of course our guys will go out there and go against any team on the schedule but why would you want to have the team flying all over the place to play these big schools just to be worn out down the stretch when it truly matters. Let's say hypothetically we play five big name schools. For arguments sake we'll go with Wisconsin, Penn State, Kansas, Kentucky, and UCLA. Through all that let's just say we beat two of those schools with Penn State being one of the two. Even though we have those two wins against big name schools, because we had to fly to Madison, Lawerence, and LA, then also take long bus rides to Happy Valley and Lexington we're dead at the end of MAC play and get beat in the semifinals of the tournament. Now those two wins mean nothing and we're not where we want to be at the end of the season.

Whereas if we test ourselves with one or two big time opponents while playing high level mid major teams like ourselves without having to do a lot of traveling then we are in prime position to be clicking as a team and get through conference play with a great record and in the big dance. Personally the only thing about the schedule that I care about is that we're playing in March in the NCAA tournament.

bn9
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 3:38:56 PM

Set 'em up and we will knock 'em down. I think that the schedule is ok, I think it could have been a little more challenging. Lets take a chance, play more big boys and try for an at-large just in case. But, if you want to stay at home and play Oakland, Delaware, IUPUI and St. Francis, you better win those and win big if you want any chance of a safety net in Cleveland.

brucecuth
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 3:54:16 PM

tell you what i'd like to see. How about a "MAC vs. Horizon League Challenge"? Opportunity to play schools like Wright St., Butler, Valpo, Cleveland St...get into some larger media markets like Detroit, Indy, Chicago...kind of like a preseason bracket buster. Get some out of conference regional rivalries going, away games not all that far for fans to travel...

Flomo-genized
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 4:07:00 PM

giacomo wrote:

The point of a college basketball schedule is not to show you've got the biggest cojones, it's to best position your team for a successful season. I agree that testing yourself against better competition is important, but I also think it is important to schedule games that can teach a young team how to win, enable you to instill your system, etc. Playing a string of games against highly ranked competition with an inexperienced team typically won't do that.

While the Pitt game certainly served as a valuable measuring stick last year, that game didn't do much in terms of enhancing the implementation of our system, or instilling confidence in our players. It pretty clearly took at least one player several games to regain the confidence he lost during that annihilation.

Playing the toughest schedule possible also doesn't necessarily best position one for an at-large bid. Historically, home teams win 67% of the time in college basketball, so the odds are you are going to have a mediocre record at best if you take on a series of top ranked teams on the road. That doesn't get you into the Dance...if it did, Miami would be sitting on 5 or 6 consecutive invitations by now. Good teams, even at the mid-major level, tend to play more games at home on the road, and look to schedule some quality mid-majors, not just power conference teams. That's what we've gone, even if you don't want to look beyond the name of some of the opponents we've faced to determine just how good they actually are.

If we are still playing schedules like this in another year or two, then I'll also start to complain. But for the time being, this schedule gives us the best chance of having a successful season and positioning us for an at-large bid.

Last Edited: 8/3/2010 4:08:42 PM by Flomo-genized

Bobcat Love
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 8:39:37 PM

The difference in tone regarding football and basketball scheduling is amazing to me.

"Set up and knock em down".....You would never hear that on the football board.

The only consistent thing about this group is their inconsistency. I have to laugh.

Either you want to be big time or you want to be little flounders. Which is it?

Monroe Slavin, CPA
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/3/2010 9:52:56 PM

The Love, I'm not so sure that you've accurately captured sentiment on the football board. I think most of us would like to see something like the level of schedule for which you avidly (hee hee) advocate. What we see as the current reality, however, is that, it's not going to happen just yet. Financial and other barriers are much greater for bringing off a top flight football schedule--especially one with first rank home games. There's a will there, just not so much of a way at this time.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/4/2010 8:18:17 AM

FIrst...Anytime you take a group of several hundred fans offering all kinds of differing opinions, it is easy to call the group "inconsistent." To see a specific person bring up the double standard you have pointed out is one thing, but of course you're going to see it out of a large group. The question I have for you is...both the football schedule and basketball schedule has been labeled soft by many people, but you're OK with the basketball schedule but irate over the football schedule....Why?

Secondly, football and basketball are different, a lot different...So what's so wrong with viewing the schedules differently? I personally would argue the spread between the "high majors" and "mid majors" in football is much greater than that spread in basketball. Upsets are more likely, and getting them to play at your place is at least somewhat possible. Losses are not devastating in basketball, and in fact losses to good teams are some times viewed favorably. SOS is highly relied upon in basketball. They are 2 different animals.

Andrew Ruck

B.B.A. 2003
www.pickemgames.com

bn9
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/4/2010 9:08:08 AM

Bobcat Love wrote:

I don't post on the football board often, if at all. I don't really like college football anymore. The disparity between the haves and have nots is broken and not going to be fixed anytime soon. That is why you won't see me advocating a tough schedule there.

I believe that in basketball it is better to challenge yourself early. I don't see the downside that many other people see. Basically, over the last two decades of following Ohio basketball it all comes down to the MAC Tournament. You might as well schedule Kentucky, Xavier, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Pitt, Penn State, etc. and take your chances. I agree with giacomo, the only way to get better is to push yourself. Note, I do understand the need to throw in a few "easier" games to get some things accomplished.

giacomo
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RE: Non-conference schedule (Commence BLOVE rage)

Posted: 8/4/2010 10:05:09 AM

Someone said home teams win 67% of the time. So, if you have to play on the road why not play a higher llevel of competition? You migh get your a#@ handed to you for a few years, but when you recruit, you can show players that they will be playing against the best and that's exciting. One year I played at Ohio State in front of a full house and the next week at St Bonaventure in front of 1000. What is more appealing to a recruit? Especially if your goal is to elevate the program. IMO, we have enough winnable games in the conference and enough crummy places to play with no crowd support. Look at attendance in the MAC-it's pathetic.

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