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Topic: RE: This could work.

Topic: RE: This could work.

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GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 49

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/21/2010 11:19:46 AM

Flomo-genized wrote:

Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:

105--I have the unfair advantage of hindsight on this one. But that 2006 team fell apart. Maybe that taints my memory. But I'll take this year's team any day of the week over that one. This year's backcourt is hands down better/deeper and the team is deeper.

I'm not sure I would agree. This year's backcourt may ultimately prove to be better, but it certainly isn't clear-cut, hands down better. I also don't think this year's backcourt is deeper than the 2005-06 backcourt (prior to the Fears transfer). That year we started Fears-Green-Troutman and the 1-2-3, with Chatman-Davis-Halbert as the backups. This year we've got Cooper-Coleman-Freeman, with only promising but untested freshmen Johnson and Kellogg in reserve. Now I'd certainly agree that this year's crop has the better potential and a higher ceiling, but in terms of experience, prior production, and depth, the 2006 backcourt was better.

The bigger advantage for this year's squad is front court depth. Whereas this year we can go 4-5 deep (Washington, Keely, Baltic, Kellogg, and Jacobs), in 2006 we really only had Leon, a true freshman battling mono in Tillman, and then two 3s (Johnny Jackson and Halbert) that slid over to the 4.

So overall, heading into 2005-06 we had a deeper and more experienced backcourt, but a really thin front court. Heading into 2010-11, our backcourt has lots of potential, but is a little short on experience, while the front court is deep, albeit without a dominant low post scorer like Leon.

If we get good coaching, and avoid defections/injury, I think that this team should be better on the whole. However, this time 5 years ago not many people would have predicted that Fears would bolt, Tillman would get sick, Jackson would be inept at the 4, etc.

Wasn't Ken Ottrix another big from that season or was he sitting because of transfer rules? My memory is drawing a blank at the moment. Not saying it makes the front court that much better from that season, but still another body.

I feel this team has loads and loads more potential than the 05-06 squad, but it just have to prove it.

M.Ed. in Sports Adminstration - Xavier 2010
B.S. in Sports Management - OHIO 2006

"It felt really good. I just hate that yellow jersey ... hate it. But, we have to have them on for our safety. Luckily, September 4th rolls around and we won't have to wear those jerseys anymore." - Ohio QB Phillip Bates

Flomo-genized
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 48

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/21/2010 11:22:53 AM

You're right, I forgot about Ottrix. According to this, he played in 14 games, scoring 22 points, in 2005-06:

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/ottrix_ken00.html

Last Edited: 7/21/2010 11:23:11 AM by Flomo-genized

OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 26

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/21/2010 11:58:37 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Yes it is the "It" squad of 05-06 and I kinda disagree. We were significantly better in the front court that season with Leon and Jerome, and the two back courts are probably even. The only thing the current team has better in my mind is coaching philosophy and defense.

The 2005 team lost a couple of good role players that factored into the demise of the 2006 squad. Terrence Harbut and Clay McGowan provided solid front court help and it allowed TOS to give Leon a blow on occasion and more importantly allowed him to be taken out when he got in foul trouble. Our replacements for those two were Ken Ottrix, Johnnie Jackson and Jerome Tillman. Jackson was a mess from the get go and Tillman, while obviously a great offensive player and rebounder was a cypher on the defensive end. Neither could really play the 5. Ottrix might have developed into a alternative but his suspension ended any hope of that. In the limited games he got in didn't seem to be the physical presence that we needed. The bench after those three of Steven King, Matt Annan, Cliff McGowan was useless.

The only players who ended up in the rotation who didn't look shot first were Jeff Halbert and Antonio Chapman. Chapman looked the part but never created anything. Halbert should have been a big factor on that team but his minutes were diminished considerably from the year before. That meant that we had Jeremy "Money Shot" Fears, Mychal Green, Whitney Davis, Sonny Troutman, Jerome Tillman and Leon Williams on the court the majority of the time. All 6 could really put the ball in the hole but not a lot of guys willing to give the ball up once it got in their hands. If you were around in those days you remember the daily lament of why wasn't the ball getting into Leon's hands more.

Many people point to Jeremy Fears leaving as the reason the team didn't live up to its billing but the team was struggling even before he left. Obviously losing him was huge but we were already headed in the wrong direction.

I think this year's team is better able to handle adversity because it appears we have much better depth than in 2006 but until we see these new guys on the court it's all just conjecture. Johnnie Jackson was supposed to be the next coming. Right now we know what we have in DJ Cooper, Tommy Freeman, DeVaughn Washington, Steven Coleman, Reggie Keely and Ivo Baltic. Led by Cooper that's a pretty good nucleus. How we end up depends a lot on how the new guys fit in and the options they give Groce.

Monroe Slavin, CPA
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Location: Encino, CA
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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/21/2010 1:55:09 PM

Why don't we just have the two squads play each other.

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/21/2010 4:04:01 PM

the biggest difference I see between the TOS teams and the Groce teams is how they approach big games. On the rare occasion I'd get to watch a TOS team on TV I usually spent the whole game yelling at the TV and asking why they looked so scared and unprepared. There was no shortness of swagger with this year's squad in big games.

I love going back and listening to the radio broadcast of the Gerogetown game just to hear John Thompson Sr repeat over and over "man, these guys don't look scared at all. I mean they aren't backing down for nothin, etc. etc" You can just hear him wanting to yell- don't they know they aren't supposed to be better than my son's team! I'm not sure TOS could get his people up the way Groce can.

Last Edited: 7/21/2010 6:22:57 PM by perimeterpost

BobcatGman
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Member Since: 7/7/2010
Location: Albany, OH
Post Count: 40

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/21/2010 9:03:16 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

DON'T FLINCH !!!!!!!!

----------------------------------------------

Dennis "Gman"

Last Edited: 7/21/2010 9:03:53 PM by BobcatGman

OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 26

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/22/2010 12:51:05 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

I don't think there is enough evidence on this yet. We sure looked scared against Pitt in December and Louisville in 2008. Conversely we didn't look scared against Florida in 2005 or Maryland in 2008.

The biggest difference right now between TOS and Groce is that we don't know what we have yet in Groce as far as on-court coaching goes. We don't know if last year's last 10 games was a program turning the corner or just a great run like 2005. That kind of thing is determined over time.

What we do know about Groce is that he is single handedly trying to prove Charlie Coles wrong when he said "If Tubby Smith and I are in the same gym, one of us is in the wrong place."

cc cat
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Location: charlotte, NC
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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/24/2010 1:53:35 PM

Hoops Malone wrote:

The thing is, what game did Freeman take over?

See Buffalo and Western Games. That said, when his shot is draining, it opens the court. With the slashers and drivers that we have, his ability to spread the court is invaluable.

Who else would you want to take the three?

Monroe Slavin, CPA
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Encino, CA
Post Count: 206

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/31/2010 3:17:24 PM

And another thing. It wouldn't bother me one bit if we went LMU and ran people out of the gym on a repeated and regular basis.

BBall Attack
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Member Since: 7/28/2010
Location: Akron, OH
Post Count: 2

Status: Online

RE: This could work.

Posted: 7/31/2010 5:06:50 PM

Hoops Malone wrote:

The thing is, what game did Freeman take over?

I don't think every player has to take over a game to prove themselves. I think he proved everything he ever should have to prove when he beat Miami because he proved that Miami Sucks!!!

Ohio Hoops
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Member Since: 7/18/2006
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 45

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/3/2010 3:31:29 PM

Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:

And another thing. It wouldn't bother me one bit if we went LMU and ran people out of the gym on a repeated and regular basis.

I'm pretty sure that's what we are in the mold of doing.

Lildude04
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Member Since: 8/10/2010
Post Count: 5

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/10/2010 9:22:47 PM

I think we are all seriously missing something here. I know everyone respects his game, but Devaughn Washington is the heart and soul of this team. Did anyone watch the entire Miami game and how he single handedly took it over or how well he played after coming back from suspension, which he made no excuses for. This is a kid who has matured and is ready and I feel really will be a first team all mac player, if not player of the year. Honestly, I think that he should play more three and create mismatches, but I doubt Groce would ever do that because he values him too much as a power front court player.

Jeff McKinney
Moderator

Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 66

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/11/2010 2:09:05 PM

Yeah...twas there. Watched Devo continually beat Miami up and down the floor.

Danger, Will Robinson!

Bleed Green & White
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Member Since: 12/27/2004
Location: Capital of Buckeye madness :(
Post Count: 5

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RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/11/2010 2:41:12 PM

Fears leaving in 05-06 left us with a hole at PG. We were never able to bounce back without the court vision to feed Leon and the previously mentioned "shooters.". Chapman was a good player but he never became the linchpin that Gladney was. That hurt.

05-06 and 10-11 look similar except for the fact thathee keep the PG (and hopefully will continue to be all season) but we've lost the headcase. In 05-06 Fears was both. This time we're lucky to have the TNT leave before it can blow up in our faces. We'll miss the scoring but be a much better team.

I expect a winning season in the MAC and hope for 20 wins by the time we leave Cleveland.

All in all I'd pass on a MAC East Championship for an auto bid. The program and the MAC are nowhere near a 50/50 shot at 2 bids. I'll be looking to 11-12 and a huge last season for Coach G.

"we are bound to win the fray..."

Don't let anyone block your pride.

BSC '06

perimeterpost
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 66

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/11/2010 2:45:11 PM

If DJ Cooper is MAC POY it means he had a good season. If Washington is POY it means the Bobcats are heading to the Sweet 16. A dominant season by DW would make our guards impossible to defend.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"boy, oh boy, and he was being gawded!"- John Thompson II after Ohio hits another 3 against Gtown.

Lildude04
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Member Since: 8/10/2010
Post Count: 5

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/11/2010 4:40:12 PM

DW will have a monster year I can just about promise that! I love the way him and DJ Cooper connect, DJ is a beast as well not taking anything away from him. As for what everyone has said about Tommy, I feel that some of his minutes could definitely go to a more defensive minded and athletic player. BUT he needs to be on the floor for a better portion of the game and I'm sure he will be. Primarily for the way he spaces the floor and his shooting ability, but a more versatile player could definitely help OU, especially against more athletic teams.

Monroe Slavin, CPA
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Encino, CA
Post Count: 206

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/12/2010 3:19:25 AM

A more defensive minded player than Tommy? Does such a thing exist?

Lildude04
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Member Since: 8/10/2010
Post Count: 5

Status: Offline

RE: This could work.

Posted: 8/12/2010 10:35:19 AM

You could be correct with that statement I stand corrected. We'll say more capable defensively against more athletic players. Although Tommy is solid defensively taking charges, talking, and being in the proper spots, he still struggles against more athletic players and keeping them in front. Don't get me wrong he is an essential part of the team and I do like him and his game. Not so much the charges when people are running with out the ball haha but Tommy is a huge part of this team.

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