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Topic: RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Topic: RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

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Kevin Finnegan
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 10:57:38 AM

So, it was signed into law today. Here are my two questions:

--Can the NCAA, even with this law, ban players from playing if they accept money? It's their own organization, so what stops them from banning the players? (I know the law says that colleges cannot punish players, but the NCAA is not the college, right?)

--If they cannot be banned, does this give schools in California, especially USC, UCLA, and Stanford, an unfair advantage in recruiting?

Last Edited: 9/30/2019 10:58:51 AM by Kevin Finnegan

rpbobcat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 11:53:36 AM

finnOhio wrote:

Just got off the phone with an atty.friend of mine,who is also a huge Rutgers fan/booster.

We talked primarily about the RU coaching situation.

But we also discussed the CA Law.

He said that,from what he's read,the NCAA will take the position that accepting endorsement money would make that athlete a "professional".
Under NCAA rules they wouldn't be allowed to compete.

He said that he anticipates the NCAA will fight this tooth and nail,because if the law is upheld it will be the wild west in college sports.

He also said there's no question that if you want to go the "stipend' route,
you'd have to give an equal stipend to every member of every D1 team at a particular school.

Where it gets very tricky is whether there could be a universal stipend amount for all schools.

cc-cat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 12:18:34 PM

The NCAA will fight this tooth and nail, because if the law is upheld it will mean they start to lose control of the money. They have little concern with it being the Wild West. They just want to be sheriff, judge and jury.... and banker.

rpbobcat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 12:51:20 PM

cc-cat wrote:

No question the NCAA isn't concerned about the Wild West.

Where you can into the Wild West scenario is if you have agents pushing high school kids towards certain colleges,based on endorsement opportunities/deals.

cc-cat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 1:03:39 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

No question the NCAA isn't concerned about the Wild West.
Where you can into the Wild West scenario is if you have agents pushing high school kids towards certain colleges,based on endorsement opportunities/deals.

Which agents and AAU coaches have been doing for years - per the shoe company investigation.

I for one can't wait for our QB to get a few bucks for eating BW3 wings.

Last Edited: 9/30/2019 1:04:57 PM by cc-cat

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 1:48:55 PM

I wonder who will be the first to dive in, a la Curt Flood (or Messersmith). It'll be a risk, similar to when Maurice Clarett tried to enter the NFL early. I could see LeBron pairing with a UCLA or USC player this upcoming season or Lavar Ball trying to get somebody to sign with him as a publicity stunt.

colobobcat66
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 2:23:24 PM

This will only maximize the differences between the money programs and the have nots. It�s just not P-5 versus G-5 which will be affected. Ohio�s location will preclude players here receiving the bigger bucks, not so much a Toledo or Buffalo player.

cc-cat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 2:26:23 PM

finnOhio wrote:

I agree it will be a basketball player - low risk since they would be one and done anyways

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 2:42:22 PM

cc-cat wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

I agree it will be a basketball player - low risk since they would be one and done anyways

Good point. Plus, basketball players naturally are more recognizable. The NBA has seen the power turn from the organization to the player over the last decade. I don't think that'll ever happen in the NFL. Their organizational structure will always exceed that of a player. Just look at the Melvin Gordon situation. He demanded a trade, held out for four weeks of play, then rejoined his team. Didn't get the trade he demanded, didn't get a new contract, and now may be facing fines and loss of pay that exceed $2 million. In the NBA, a player demands a trade, they're almost certain to get it.

Alan Swank
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 3:38:26 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

Student athletes are working for free? They get nothing in return for their work? Huh.

I'm with Robert on this one. Colleges were never meant to be a means for people to play games past high school.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 9/30/2019 8:08:23 PM

finnOhio wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

I agree it will be a basketball player - low risk since they would be one and done anyways

I think the NFL Players Union is long overdue a strike, and that it's only a matter of time. And when it happens, it's going to be ugly. NBA and MLB players are much, much better treated in leagues with much lower revenue numbers.

Oh, and NBA and MLB players don't trade 1/3 of their life expectancy in exchange for a career.

The control we've seen guys like Melvin Gordon and Leveon Bell try and exert is a reaction to the control that NBA players have over their own careers, and the less guaranteed money in the NFL.

Last Edited: 9/30/2019 8:14:56 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

rpbobcat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 6:33:30 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The sports pundits out here are expecting a major battle between NFL owners and the Players Union when the next CBA is negotiated.

According to these pundits,the owners want to start the season later,go to a 17 game schedule,add another "layer" to the playoffs and have the Super Bowl on Presidents' Weekend.

What they'd have to do to get to that remains to be seen.

rpbobcat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 6:38:23 AM

Don Wolken of USA Today has an interesting article about this.

Its up on USAtoday.com .

Sorry,couldn't get a link to work.

If search "wolken" it comes up.

Last Edited: 10/1/2019 6:39:39 AM by rpbobcat

cc-cat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 8:56:15 AM

this might link

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3821189002?__twitter_impress...

BillyTheCat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 1:06:58 PM

cc-cat wrote:

What money? The NCAA is only getting money from the Championship contest and tournaments. The actual games are property of the home schools, the TV contracts are property of the leagues and in a few rare cases individual schools. The issue is the Wild West issue. Go let the moneyed elite have more influence in keeping and recruiting kids. How many endorsement deals would our athletes ever get to ink? While a school like Buffalo with more corperate action could easily out spend a rural campus like us. Wait until NLI's come with signing bonuses from endorsements. May as well go back to the days of the no-show job at 50x the minimum wage.

BillyTheCat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 1:10:02 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

BINGO!!!! I posted this before I saw you already posted this. Akron, EMU also, they have had more corporate dollars than OHIO for years. And if those corporate dollars help them win, then that makes the issue even tougher for a rural university in an economically depressed region.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 1:18:59 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

Here's the thing about this argument: it gives away the plot a bit.

Because at its core, this is an argument about maintaining competitive balance and ensuring that intercollegiate athletics are entertaining. It completely ignores the NCAA's stated mission, in which education is paramount, in favor of policy that insists athletic considerations, namely competitive balance, come first.

I totally get that people are worried about how this law might shift competitive balance. But I just can't really bring myself to care all that much. It seems of secondary concern to me compared to giving people to earn money based on their abilities. I kind of just find it immoral to limit that, even if it means Buffalo out recruits Ohio forever.

cc-cat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 2:10:00 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

What money? The NCAA is only getting money from the Championship contest and tournaments.

I was using "NCAA" in too broad a context. So I better clarify. The NCAA governing organization - which makers $1.5 billion a year off of March Madness and the football championship (to answer :"what money") want to keep money access away from the athletes and, to your point (and the "broader" "NCAA" in my point the conferences and power programs) want to keep the money (and control) away from the athletes - Ala the OSU Athletic Director coming out today against the law).

SVAC83
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 8:51:18 PM

I think as long as the law is implemented in a way that is in consideration with the law and other NCAA rules. I don't think the law or anything will really change the college landscape we have a long way to go before we get there.

The NCAA already has a rule on the books that says a person on a scholarship can get a job. They physically have to do the job. in other words cant get paid for work they don't do. They also can't get paid more then the normal rate for anyone who would be doing that job.

so let's say a Cleveland cavalier gets $5000 to show up at a car dealership and shake hands and sign autographs. No booster or anyone could pay a college player like $50k to do the same thing.

Every year there are what maybe 25 to 30 kids across the entire country that are going to be worth anyone paying huge dollars to. those kids right now are probably going to choose between 5 or 10 schools. so it is not like this is going to be a huge effect.

besides that this is going to put a few extra dollars in a few kids pockets but not really a ton. as a matter of fact this might actually sort out the talent a little more around the country. there aren't a lot of 5 star Defensive lineman, but Clemson and Alabama have way more then there share and kids wait there turn. Maybe if your the 8th man on that Defensive line rotation. do you want to wait to years to get there turn there or if say. UCLA can arrange for the kid to get a 50k sponsorship and a chance to start right away he goes there.

because lets be honest how many 5 star kids go bust plenty. how much money are you going to do to promote a kid who might not even break the starting lineup for 2 years.

this will not effect to many kids or change the landscape that much. The biggest thing that may change is university's and conferences may have less money for other sports and facilities.

SVAC83
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/1/2019 9:01:05 PM

Also remember even the California law would not go into effect until 2023. And yes this will be more of a basketball then football thing especially for big money. But lets be honest one and done kids that are going to get shoe contracts out of high school. what is there 6 or 7 maybe a year? there probably going to one of 5 or 6 schools so what really changes?

rpbobcat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/2/2019 6:29:34 AM

SVAC83 wrote:

If done on the "up and up" you are 100% correct.

What I worry about is this becoming a mechanism to try get around rules for paying players.

I'm a big booster at school "A".

I form a "sports information" company.

Then I give "endorsement" contracts,of varying amounts, to the players
on the football team.

bobcatsquared
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/2/2019 7:20:44 AM

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet. But is it possible that teams from states other than California might opt out of scheduling games v. teams from California because of unfair advantages?

BillyTheCat
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/2/2019 10:42:39 AM

SVAC83 wrote:

I think as long as the law is implemented in a way that is in consideration with the law and other NCAA rules. I don't think the law or anything will really change the college landscape we have a long way to go before we get there.

so let's say a Cleveland cavalier gets $5000 to show up at a car dealership and shake hands and sign autographs. No booster or anyone could pay a college player like $50k to do the same thing.

Every year there are what maybe 25 to 30 kids across the entire country that are going to be worth anyone paying huge dollars to. those kids right now are probably going to choose between 5 or 10 schools. so it is not like this is going to be a huge effect.

You over estimate the amount of cash that kids at big programs would get for card shows, and appearances at dealerships and malls. Friends of mine have made good five figure money the moment their eligibility runs out lining up for these events. Much of this payment is cash even, and the question is who is going to educate the athletes on the taxes and how all of that works.

You grossly underestimate the 25-30 kids across the country thing. The regional big boys will be paying 25-30 kids at their schools good money. Because the money is out there.

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/2/2019 11:11:27 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

SVAC83 wrote:

I think as long as the law is implemented in a way that is in consideration with the law and other NCAA rules. I don't think the law or anything will really change the college landscape we have a long way to go before we get there.

so let's say a Cleveland cavalier gets $5000 to show up at a car dealership and shake hands and sign autographs. No booster or anyone could pay a college player like $50k to do the same thing.

Every year there are what maybe 25 to 30 kids across the entire country that are going to be worth anyone paying huge dollars to. those kids right now are probably going to choose between 5 or 10 schools. so it is not like this is going to be a huge effect.

Much of this payment is cash even, and the question is who is going to educate the athletes on the taxes and how all of that works.

I don't mean this flippantly, but they're in a place to actually receive this education. If these are athletes that are good enough to earn endorsements, maybe there should be some level of majoring in being a professional athlete. Teach them about their money responsibility. Teach them about social awareness and social media. Teach them about building their brand. This should be the purpose of college, to educate them about the world they are entering. Why make them pick a major that has nothing to do with their future? Instead, start building a program that is set for their world.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Posted: 10/2/2019 11:19:15 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Much of this payment is cash even, and the question is who is going to educate the athletes on the taxes and how all of that works.

Yeah, wherever would we find an educational institution to educate these athletes?

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