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Topic:  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'

Topic:  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 12:07:03 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Well, it made him a professional by the NCAAs standards. The NCAA can just change the standard.

I mean, it's pretty much arbitrary that both the NCAA and Olympics are for amateur athletes and Phelps was eligible for one but not the other, right?

As I mentioned earlier, from a labor law standpoint the NCAA is much better off if these athletes make income elsewhere. The less control they exert over them the better, if the objective is to ensure they're never classified as employees.

I wouldn't say that the Olympics are for amateur athletes any more. I think that the NBA with the Dream Team, the NHL, PGA golfers, and WTA players have assured that amateurism and Olympics are no longer synonymous.

That's fair and definitely accurate. Worth noting though that the Olympics made that shift because the landscape of global athletics changed so drastically that insisting on strict amateurism made it such that the best athletes in the world were ineligible.

The NCAA could probably learn something from that.



I would think that either the NCAA would have to allow "professionals" in a sport or require any payment to be deferred to after a kid leaves school.
I thought that's how MLB does it.

Like I said,where it can get really tricky is if a kid's endorsement deal includes any "tie-in" like a uniform,school name, etc.

As I posted,it could be possible for the school to issue a license to use their logo,uniform etc. as part of kid's endorsement.

As I also posted,seems that,no matter what,lawyers are gonna make a lot of money off of this.

Last Edited: 9/18/2019 12:08:10 PM by rpbobcat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 12:37:22 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Well, it made him a professional by the NCAAs standards. The NCAA can just change the standard.

I mean, it's pretty much arbitrary that both the NCAA and Olympics are for amateur athletes and Phelps was eligible for one but not the other, right?

As I mentioned earlier, from a labor law standpoint the NCAA is much better off if these athletes make income elsewhere. The less control they exert over them the better, if the objective is to ensure they're never classified as employees.

I wouldn't say that the Olympics are for amateur athletes any more. I think that the NBA with the Dream Team, the NHL, PGA golfers, and WTA players have assured that amateurism and Olympics are no longer synonymous.

That's fair and definitely accurate. Worth noting though that the Olympics made that shift because the landscape of global athletics changed so drastically that insisting on strict amateurism made it such that the best athletes in the world were ineligible.

The NCAA could probably learn something from that.



I would think that either the NCAA would have to allow "professionals" in a sport or require any payment to be deferred to after a kid leaves school.
I thought that's how MLB does it.

Like I said,where it can get really tricky is if a kid's endorsement deal includes any "tie-in" like a uniform,school name, etc.

As I posted,it could be possible for the school to issue a license to use their logo,uniform etc. as part of kid's endorsement.

As I also posted,seems that,no matter what,lawyers are gonna make a lot of money off of this.


Yeah, I mean I think it's basically just a question of semantics. All the NCAA has to do is alter the requirements to meet their definition of amateurism. Professional vs. Amateur is sort of an arbitrary distinction, right? And further, who determines what their profession is, exactly?

Let's say, for instance, that Ben Roderick has 25,000 Instagram followers and 15,000 of them live in Athens. The owner of O'Betty's notices that and notices that Ben's in there twice a week and says "hey, I'll give you $500 to post that O'Betty's is your favorite spot in Athens."

Does posting that make Ben Roderick a professional basketball player?

I don't think so. I think it makes him a (vaguely) famous person who entered into a mutually beneficial business arrangement with a hot dog joint.

Last Edited: 9/18/2019 12:38:56 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 1:23:47 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Yeah, I mean I think it's basically just a question of semantics. All the NCAA has to do is alter the requirements to meet their definition of amateurism. Professional vs. Amateur is sort of an arbitrary distinction, right? And further, who determines what their profession is, exactly?

Let's say, for instance, that Ben Roderick has 25,000 Instagram followers and 15,000 of them live in Athens. The owner of O'Betty's notices that and notices that Ben's in there twice a week and says "hey, I'll give you $500 to post that O'Betty's is your favorite spot in Athens."

Does posting that make Ben Roderick a professional basketball player?

I don't think so. I think it makes him a (vaguely) famous person who entered into a mutually beneficial business arrangement with a hot dog joint.


I agree about semantics.

Personally,I think your example of Roderick getting paid to post about O'Betty's would make him a "professional".

He would not be "vaguely famous",absent his basketball abilities.

If he wasn't a basketball player,I doubt O'Betty's would be interested in a "mutually beneficial business agreement",no matter how many Instagram followers he has.
That number would also be a lot less,absent basketball.

So he would be getting paid,based on being a basketball player.
To me that makes him a professional.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 1:51:34 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Yeah, I mean I think it's basically just a question of semantics. All the NCAA has to do is alter the requirements to meet their definition of amateurism. Professional vs. Amateur is sort of an arbitrary distinction, right? And further, who determines what their profession is, exactly?

Let's say, for instance, that Ben Roderick has 25,000 Instagram followers and 15,000 of them live in Athens. The owner of O'Betty's notices that and notices that Ben's in there twice a week and says "hey, I'll give you $500 to post that O'Betty's is your favorite spot in Athens."

Does posting that make Ben Roderick a professional basketball player?

I don't think so. I think it makes him a (vaguely) famous person who entered into a mutually beneficial business arrangement with a hot dog joint.


I agree about semantics.

Personally,I think your example of Roderick getting paid to post about O'Betty's would make him a "professional".

He would not be "vaguely famous",absent his basketball abilities.

If he wasn't a basketball player,I doubt O'Betty's would be interested in a "mutually beneficial business agreement",no matter how many Instagram followers he has.
That number would also be a lot less,absent basketball.

So he would be getting paid,based on being a basketball player.
To me that makes him a professional.



Maybe you're right.

But if you are, that's truly insane.

Think about that for a second -- Ohio University makes an agreement to provide $100,000 worth of education, equipment, lodging, training, coaching, food, etc. in exchange for Roderick to play basketball and earn them money. He can appear in commercials for Ohio University basketball. He's plastered all over Ohio University's social media accounts. He can do radio shows to drum up interest in ticket sales. He can shake hands with potential donors. Ohio University can sell his jersey. And he only gets said education if he's playing basketball at a level deemed acceptable by his coach, an employee of Ohio University. He has to go to practice for a certain number of hours, travel across state lines to represent the university, and cannot under any circumstances earn outside income.

All of that's amateurism.

But if O'Betty's -- who has nothing to do with Ohio University or basketball -- pays him $500 for an Instagram post THAT makes him a professional basketball player?

That's crazy, right?

Ohio University can capitalize on his basketball skills to whatever extent they can manage, but the moment the University isn't involved the rest of the world has to pretend he's not a famous basketball player and any capital at all results in his eligibility being stripped?

It's completely non-sensical.

Last Edited: 9/18/2019 2:00:31 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 3:07:30 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Maybe you're right.

But if you are, that's truly insane.

Think about that for a second -- Ohio University makes an agreement to provide $100,000 worth of education, equipment, lodging, training, coaching, food, etc. in exchange for Roderick to play basketball and earn them money. He can appear in commercials for Ohio University basketball. He's plastered all over Ohio University's social media accounts. He can do radio shows to drum up interest in ticket sales. He can shake hands with potential donors. Ohio University can sell his jersey. And he only gets said education if he's playing basketball at a level deemed acceptable by his coach, an employee of Ohio University. He has to go to practice for a certain number of hours, travel across state lines to represent the university, and cannot under any circumstances earn outside income.

All of that's amateurism.

But if O'Betty's -- who has nothing to do with Ohio University or basketball -- pays him $500 for an Instagram post THAT makes him a professional basketball player?

That's crazy, right?

Ohio University can capitalize on his basketball skills to whatever extent they can manage, but the moment the University isn't involved the rest of the world has to pretend he's not a famous basketball player and any capital at all results in his eligibility being stripped?

It's completely non-sensical.



I agree with you 100% about the rules being crazy.

O.U. would argue the quid pro quo is an education for,in this case, his basketball abilities.

They would also argue any money O.U. may make, offsets his educational costs and supplements other athletic scholarships in sports that don't generate revenue and in fact lose money.

Not saying I agree,but that's always been the argument.

When a player gets compensation,regardless of the amount,directly from a third party,strictly because of his athletic ability,he's defined as a "professional".










Last Edited: 9/18/2019 3:09:11 PM by rpbobcat
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 3:17:05 PM 
All this is going to do is clear the way for boosters to directly pay kids for playing sports at their universities of choice. It's just going to widen the gulf between the haves and the have-nots. I don't see any way that the mids aren't going to be completely relegated to a separate second-class and I guess I'm okay with that. Time for the BBS and the BBC divisions. We are losing the arms race as it is and I'd just as soon we admit it to ourselves.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 3:58:36 PM 
OUVan wrote:
All this is going to do is clear the way for boosters to directly pay kids for playing sports at their universities of choice.


Directly and openly. As you know it takes place and always has. I personally witnessed Ohio athletes being financially rewarded by boosters when I was on campus in the early 80's. I don't know if it will widen the haves and have nots - but will certainly clarify them.

Most interesting comments above involve the opportunity for an athlete to receive local endorsement money. Its easy to see how endorsements benefit the Trevor Lawrences of the game. But this does provide opportunity to the Nathan's of the game as well.

Last Edited: 9/18/2019 3:59:22 PM by cc-cat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 4:01:34 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

When a player gets compensation,regardless of the amount,directly from a third party,strictly because of his athletic ability,he's defined as a "professional".



But when he gets a bag full of Ipads, a Playstation 4, an engraved Torneau watch, and a $425 Amazon gift card, that's. . .amateurism; just means he played in a bowl game.

It's such a ridiculous sham.

Last Edited: 9/18/2019 4:07:44 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 4:34:05 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

When a player gets compensation, regardless of the amount,directly from a third party,strictly because of his athletic ability, he's defined as a "professional".


Yet, according to the NCAA, can play college sports in his/her non professional sport. Which begs the question - so why is being a professional considered bad and yet ok?

Russel Wilson can sign a pro baseball contract (be a professional) yet still play football. Michael Phelps signs an endorsement deal - thus becoming a professional - and is not allowed to compete. The difference?

Last Edited: 9/18/2019 4:38:48 PM by cc-cat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 4:38:14 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

When a player gets compensation, regardless of the amount,directly from a third party,strictly because of his athletic ability, he's defined as a "professional".


Yet, according to the NCAA, can play college sports in his/her non professional sport. Which begs the question - so why is being a professional considered bad and yet ok?


In that case, I've got a perfect workaround. Somebody should build a shuffleboard court in Athens, and a wealthy alum can just pay OU Basketball and Football recruits a few grand to play in their 'professional shuffleboard league.' They'll be pro Shuffleboarders, and amateur basketball and football players.

Easy.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/18/2019 5:55:42 PM 
Look at all the work and resources used just to keep people from making money they deserve. It's madness.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/21/2019 1:30:38 PM 
College athletics has changed significantly in the past decade. There needs to be a solution where all athletes are getting an stipend, compensation, whatever you want to call it.

By the way, am I the only one to notice how much better this discussion improved the past few pages? Wonder why?
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/21/2019 1:44:03 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
College athletics has changed significantly in the past decade. There needs to be a solution where all athletes are getting an stipend, compensation, whatever you want to call it.

By the way, am I the only one to notice how much better this discussion improved the past few pages? Wonder why?


Probably because no one is really addressing the question any more.
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/21/2019 5:14:15 PM 
Spoke too soon.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 6:40:11 AM 
This was the topic on yesterday's "The Sports Edge" on WFAN.

Everyone on the show felt that,at some point, the NCAA will have to allow players to get paid for endorsements.

There were, however, a number of opinions as to how it would work.

One person even suggested that the endorsement money be split with the team.
Say 50% to the player.The rest to the team.

One person said the NCAA would be a lot more receptive if they got a
% of endorsement money.

The idea of a stipend was non-starter.

They had talked previously on the show about how,under Title IX,all D1 athletes at a school would have to get the same stipend.

Very few schools could afford that.

I know there's been a number of posts here about declining attendance at
sporting events.

This was one of things that was brought up in relation to stipends.

They said even major programs are having attendance issues.

They said at last week's UCLA/OU game the stands weren't exactly full.
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 9:05:40 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
This was the topic on yesterday's "The Sports Edge" on WFAN.

Everyone on the show felt that,at some point, the NCAA will have to allow players to get paid for endorsements.

There were, however, a number of opinions as to how it would work.

One person even suggested that the endorsement money be split with the team.
Say 50% to the player.The rest to the team.

One person said the NCAA would be a lot more receptive if they got a
% of endorsement money.

The idea of a stipend was non-starter.

They had talked previously on the show about how,under Title IX,all D1 athletes at a school would have to get the same stipend.

Very few schools could afford that.

I know there's been a number of posts here about declining attendance at
sporting events.

This was one of things that was brought up in relation to stipends.

They said even major programs are having attendance issues.

They said at last week's UCLA/OU game the stands weren't exactly full.


Why should the NCAA get any portion of the money? I don't get that. If the player is getting paid, we've already crossed that threshold, so why would the NCAA get a cut? Does the NBA get a portion of LeBron's Nike contract? How about the NFL for Aaron Rodgers and State Farm?

If players can have endorsement deals, I would imagine the other piece of the puzzle would be that they would have to have agents, right? Also, there are NCAA teams that do not let their freshmen do interviews and have other weird rules. Could there be teams that don't allow players to have endorsement deals in their first year? Would school have any oversight on a player's endorsement contracts?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 9:32:54 AM 
finnOhio wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
This was the topic on yesterday's "The Sports Edge" on WFAN.

Everyone on the show felt that,at some point, the NCAA will have to allow players to get paid for endorsements.

There were, however, a number of opinions as to how it would work.

One person even suggested that the endorsement money be split with the team.
Say 50% to the player.The rest to the team.

One person said the NCAA would be a lot more receptive if they got a
% of endorsement money.

The idea of a stipend was non-starter.

They had talked previously on the show about how,under Title IX,all D1 athletes at a school would have to get the same stipend.

Very few schools could afford that.

I know there's been a number of posts here about declining attendance at
sporting events.

This was one of things that was brought up in relation to stipends.

They said even major programs are having attendance issues.

They said at last week's UCLA/OU game the stands weren't exactly full.


Why should the NCAA get any portion of the money? I don't get that. If the player is getting paid, we've already crossed that threshold, so why would the NCAA get a cut? Does the NBA get a portion of LeBron's Nike contract? How about the NFL for Aaron Rodgers and State Farm?

If players can have endorsement deals, I would imagine the other piece of the puzzle would be that they would have to have agents, right? Also, there are NCAA teams that do not let their freshmen do interviews and have other weird rules. Could there be teams that don't allow players to have endorsement deals in their first year? Would school have any oversight on a player's endorsement contracts?


Not to mention that the NCAA and Universities already rake in all manner of money from endorsement deals. Those limitations aren't placed on them.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 9:35:17 AM 
finnOhio wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
This was the topic on yesterday's "The Sports Edge" on WFAN.

Everyone on the show felt that,at some point, the NCAA will have to allow players to get paid for endorsements.

There were, however, a number of opinions as to how it would work.

One person even suggested that the endorsement money be split with the team.
Say 50% to the player.The rest to the team.

One person said the NCAA would be a lot more receptive if they got a
% of endorsement money.

The idea of a stipend was non-starter.

They had talked previously on the show about how,under Title IX,all D1 athletes at a school would have to get the same stipend.

Very few schools could afford that.

I know there's been a number of posts here about declining attendance at
sporting events.

This was one of things that was brought up in relation to stipends.

They said even major programs are having attendance issues.

They said at last week's UCLA/OU game the stands weren't exactly full.


Why should the NCAA get any portion of the money? I don't get that. If the player is getting paid, we've already crossed that threshold, so why would the NCAA get a cut? Does the NBA get a portion of LeBron's Nike contract? How about the NFL for Aaron Rodgers and State Farm?

If players can have endorsement deals, I would imagine the other piece of the puzzle would be that they would have to have agents, right? Also, there are NCAA teams that do not let their freshmen do interviews and have other weird rules. Could there be teams that don't allow players to have endorsement deals in their first year? Would school have any oversight on a player's endorsement contracts?


First off I agree that there is no justification for the NCAA to get a % of any student's endorsement.

I would think that,for this to work,there would have to universal rules on endorsement money,including "sharing" with teammates.

There are all kinds of things that would have to worked out.
For example team "A" wears Nike.A player's endorsement would be with Adidas.
Now what ?

Given today's "one and done" environment in basketball,I can't see anyone being
able to prohibit freshman endorsement deals.

The whole thing looks like one big quagmire.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 10:46:13 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:

There are all kinds of things that would have to worked out.
For example team "A" wears Nike.A player's endorsement would be with Adidas.
Now what ?


This happens in the NBA all the time -- Nike owns the jersey sponsorship, but individual players still get to choose to wear whatever shoes they like.

Given that the shoe companies are now throwing all manner of money at AAU sponsorships because they've figured out that doing so creates a pipeline to the schools they want kids to go to, and ultimately, pro endorsement deals I suspect that shoe companies would still spend money exactly how they have been on school sponsorships. They seem to feel that a kid wearing Nikes in college makes him more likely to sign a Nike endorsement deal in the NBA, so they'd probably be happy to have the inside track on the sponsorship deal.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 1:43:57 PM 
What happens when a wealthy business owner and booster like T. Boone Pickens signs the entire team to a $100,000 a year endorsement deal for his business. How are other schools going to compete against that?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 1:54:29 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
What happens when a wealthy business owner and booster like T. Boone Pickens signs the entire team to a $100,000 a year endorsement deal for his business. How are other schools going to compete against that?


Boosters already pay an outsize role in college sports. The only difference in this case is that the money T. Boone Pickens is donating is going directly into players pockets rather than being used to build a practice facility or fancy dorm or fund private chefs, etc. To me, that just seems like a reallocation of the money that's already being spent.

Pickens donated more than $1 billion dollars to Oklahoma State. ~300 million went to athletics. He pays Mike Gundy's 5.5 million dollar a year salary. It's a bit late to take to our fainting couches over the idea that wealthy boosters might grubby up college sports.

And in terms of how other schools compete, my guess is that they'll compete by paying players comparably. That's how markets work.

Is it ideal? No. Is it going to accelerate the difference between the haves and have nots? Probably. But in my mind that's collateral damage on the way to what's just. Not really sure I see any other way around it.

Last Edited: 9/23/2019 5:33:14 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/23/2019 7:37:19 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
What happens when a wealthy business owner and booster like T. Boone Pickens signs the entire team to a $100,000 a year endorsement deal for his business. How are other schools going to compete against that?


Or a fellow like Joe Sutton who sends 10K to every OU football player. How are other schools in the MAC going to compete against that.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/24/2019 7:57:19 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
What happens when a wealthy business owner and booster like T. Boone Pickens signs the entire team to a $100,000 a year endorsement deal for his business. How are other schools going to compete against that?


Or a fellow like Joe Sutton who sends 10K to every OU football player. How are other schools in the MAC going to compete against that.



Hate to sound dumb.
But,who is Joe Sutton ?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/24/2019 10:15:41 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
What happens when a wealthy business owner and booster like T. Boone Pickens signs the entire team to a $100,000 a year endorsement deal for his business. How are other schools going to compete against that?


Or a fellow like Joe Sutton who sends 10K to every OU football player. How are other schools in the MAC going to compete against that.



Hate to sound dumb.
But,who is Joe Sutton ?




And what is his connection to Oklahoma?
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giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
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  Message Not Read  RE: USA Today: NCAA sends California governor letter calling name, likeness bill 'unconstitutional'
   Posted: 9/24/2019 9:18:19 PM 
https://www.marketscreener.com/business-leaders/Joseph-W-... /

Last Edited: 9/24/2019 9:22:44 PM by giacomo
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