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Topic:  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article

Topic:  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 12:10:54 PM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
"Phillips didnít need Ohio, but Bobcat basketball needed him five years ago. In terms of stability, the Bobcatsí situation right now is a 180-degree from where it was then. Ohio needed a culture change, and got one."

Translation. Christian ruined the Sweet 16 program because he was an asshole who didn't know what he was doing, so we had to do a 180 and bring in the complete opposite.

Per Setty's post, I'm feeling really good about my comments that Schaus whiffed on Christian AND Saul. This guy really needs to get it right this time because that Christian hire was a colossal bust. Colossal. And spare me the comments about a MAC Title. We had a team that was a whisp away from the Elite 8 bringing back EVERY single player and Christian found a way to muck it up. Just sad.

Kadeem Green his ass.


I have gone to every MAC Tourney since 2010. We used to go to MAC Fest at the Mall and see teams hanging out. When Groce was coach he was in the food court hanging and while watching games was the same with the guys. When Christian took over he sat as far away from the players as he could and clearly had no bond. Schaus messed up with Christian when he should have hired Boals. Now guys on here want Kennedys and Pitino? Jans? Are you kidding me? YOUNG. HUNGRY! MIDWEST!
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 12:13:28 PM 
Maddog13 wrote:
Boo-hoo. Are we on the verge of giving out participation trophies now at the Convo? I thought basketball was a competitive sport? My God, have Bobcat fans become that beaten down and hopeless over losing that they have become soft? Yes, the game is about winning, and, yes, you can have all these great qualities, but will lose your job at the end of the day if you don't win. What is this pity-party related to Saul really about? Lost innocence? Come on, folks, really?!?! The only thing that is becoming clear to me is that Bobcat basketball is beginning to resemble the acceptance and tolerance of losing that was so acceptable in the football program for so many years. Thank God that has changed. What is so wrong with expecting the Bobcats to not only win, but win big? This Ohio basketball program has had a reputation of being very dangerous, and now this program is lucky to win even a slight bit of respect from other programs in the MAC, let alone around the country. I want a GROWL not a MEOW. Enough of this. Toughen up folks, and lets get this program back to the top of the MAC.


AMEN!
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 12:17:20 PM 

Many very dedicated fans who have big expectations for men's basketball think Phillips would still be coaching if Campbell, Carter, and Dartis did not get injured.

And you can't say they are wrong because, yeah, well, you know that's just like uh your opinion man.

College basketball/football is what it is now and Arkley is pointing that out. You win no matter what or you are gone, even right here at Ohio.

Anyway, someone go get another pitcher and pour another round and we can keep arguing....



Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 12:42:12 PM 
Confirms what I have thought that Schaus is gonna be under SERIOUS heat along with Arkley confirming what I have said about mutiny island under Christian. If you wanf to pull up any thread, go find the one when Christian was hired. Not a lot of love for him then, and sure as hell none for him now.
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GoCats105
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Location: Austin, TX
Post Count: 5,042

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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 12:45:41 PM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
"Phillips didnít need Ohio, but Bobcat basketball needed him five years ago. In terms of stability, the Bobcatsí situation right now is a 180-degree from where it was then. Ohio needed a culture change, and got one."

Translation. Christian ruined the Sweet 16 program because he was an asshole who didn't know what he was doing, so we had to do a 180 and bring in the complete opposite.

Per Setty's post, I'm feeling really good about my comments that Schaus whiffed on Christian AND Saul. This guy really needs to get it right this time because that Christian hire was a colossal bust. Colossal. And spare me the comments about a MAC Title. We had a team that was a whisp away from the Elite 8 bringing back EVERY single player and Christian found a way to muck it up. Just sad.

Kadeem Green his ass.


I'll never understand that argument that Christian was a great coach because Ohio won a MAC regular season title. First off, we "shared" it with Akron and second, we only "shared" it because Akron stubbed their toe against Kent State and Buffalo down the stretch. They beat Ohio both times during the regular season.



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GoCats105
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Location: Austin, TX
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 12:49:01 PM 
This stat right here is so, so, so sucky for all of us:

"Ohio entered that season with two preseason All-MAC East picks ó Carter and shooting guard Jordan Dartis. In the two seasons since that poll, the duo has played in exactly three games together."



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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 1:40:00 PM 
Here's another point to make:

If WINNING is what is most important here, then why in the hell did they allow for this complete waste of a season to occur? For me, you either value the other things that Saul brought that we've discussed here, or if you value WINNING above all, then you dismiss him at the end of last year. You can't have it both ways. If winning is most important, then the AD and the University's actions should reflect that.


From the article:
ďItís a business decision,Ē Schaus said Wednesday evening. ďItís a wins and losses decision entirely.Ē


Someone, please enlighten me what Jim Schaus has done over the last two years to help the business side of things to potentially improve things on the wins and losses side of things? Unless I'm mistaken, he's been publicly silent about this for nearly TWO YEARS. Some will say I have it in for him, and right now I do, because under his (or Nellis') lacking leadership, Ohio basketball is in this situation. Now, suddenly, it's all about "wins and losses entirely".

Want to increase your athletic department revenue with donations and ticket sales? Newsflash, this probably isn't the way to get people excited about the direction of your department Jim.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

Twitter: @ou_country

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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 1:57:08 PM 
I hope the following is apropos, not as it relates to Arkley but as it relates to Bobcat athletics.

Does anyone else see how the decline of women's volleyball at Ohio mirrors what has happened in men's basketball? It's striking.

5 years ago we brought in a new coach who had success at a lower level conference. By no means as glib as Saul, Deane Webb is widely regarded as a "good guy." He had some initial success, largely thanks to players who remained after Ryan Theis departed. The high point (in my mind, anyway) came 4 years ago when we defeated Ohio State on a neutral court and swept the MAC regular season. The next year we went to the NCAA tourney, but the recruiting was beginning to suffer. The program has been in decline ever since. Injuries have been used as an excuse. Where we used to be in the top 25 in attendance, interest has fallen off a cliff. Activity on the Bobcatattack volleyball board is virtually nil. And instead of attracting the Indianapolis player of the year, or a first team all Chicago player, as we have in the past, we are now signing girls from Federal Hocking and Gallipolis (no disrespect, I'm sure these are good SEO programs and the girls are good kids).

There is one huge difference. Deane Webb is still coaching.

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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 2:47:53 PM 
Itís a column, so I wonít join anyone trashing Arkley as a journalistÖ but I will trash his opinions in this piece. To say that the department was unfair and impatient is a horrible take. He mentions none of the many controllable factors that led to a 40-50 MAC record. He talks like 20 wins with our crap schedule and league-leading budget is a great accomplishment. And two 14-17 seasons with all of his own players in place? Chalk that up to mere bad luck. Never mind that we didnít have the horses to compete for a title no matter who got injured. Never mind that the many transfers out (both good and bad players) reflect on his judgement, recruiting and coaching. Never mind that one or two injuries exposed just how bare the cupboard was every year in terms of talent. Itís been five years of different levels of disappointment and weíre all supposed to be patient? If these results are OK, then why bother paying attention?
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 2:51:14 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Here's another point to make:

If WINNING is what is most important here, then why in the hell did they allow for this complete waste of a season to occur? For me, you either value the other things that Saul brought that we've discussed here, or if you value WINNING above all, then you dismiss him at the end of last year. You can't have it both ways. If winning is most important, then the AD and the University's actions should reflect that.


From the article:
ďItís a business decision,Ē Schaus said Wednesday evening. ďItís a wins and losses decision entirely.Ē


Someone, please enlighten me what Jim Schaus has done over the last two years to help the business side of things to potentially improve things on the wins and losses side of things? Unless I'm mistaken, he's been publicly silent about this for nearly TWO YEARS. Some will say I have it in for him, and right now I do, because under his (or Nellis') lacking leadership, Ohio basketball is in this situation. Now, suddenly, it's all about "wins and losses entirely".

Want to increase your athletic department revenue with donations and ticket sales? Newsflash, this probably isn't the way to get people excited about the direction of your department Jim.


Itís funny how people said it was time to move on and now they are blaming the AD after a saulcholic rant. Saul did not deserve an extension, point blank, period, end of sentence. Hey Jim, bun we were satisfied with our mediocrity, youíre going to get it now. Really, is this what we are doing.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 2:53:32 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Here's another point to make:

If WINNING is what is most important here, then why in the hell did they allow for this complete waste of a season to occur? For me, you either value the other things that Saul brought that we've discussed here, or if you value WINNING above all, then you dismiss him at the end of last year. You can't have it both ways. If winning is most important, then the AD and the University's actions should reflect that.


From the article:
ďItís a business decision,Ē Schaus said Wednesday evening. ďItís a wins and losses decision entirely.Ē


Someone, please enlighten me what Jim Schaus has done over the last two years to help the business side of things to potentially improve things on the wins and losses side of things? Unless I'm mistaken, he's been publicly silent about this for nearly TWO YEARS. Some will say I have it in for him, and right now I do, because under his (or Nellis') lacking leadership, Ohio basketball is in this situation. Now, suddenly, it's all about "wins and losses entirely".

Want to increase your athletic department revenue with donations and ticket sales? Newsflash, this probably isn't the way to get people excited about the direction of your department Jim.


One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.
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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 3:10:18 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 4:05:32 PM 
What a poor article...it just needed a violin.

Last Edited: 3/14/2019 4:10:34 PM by ExCat21

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 4:26:53 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.


And, again, Saul was seeking a multi-year extension plus robust raise back when we broke off negotiations. Schaus was smart to take a wait and see approach.
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postlikeTrent
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 4:27:52 PM 
This is a homer article which is no way surprising considering that I'm sure he had tons of access and is content with working in a tiny media market.

Most sports reporters are unrepentant homers, look no further than the fawning OSU coverage that you see from 90 percent of the reporters in Columbus.

Obviously, Saul's recruiting was a huge problem and no shit Sherlock you get paid to win. Sometime tell Arkley the Easter bunny isn't real too.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 4:54:29 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Here's another point to make:

If WINNING is what is most important here, then why in the hell did they allow for this complete waste of a season to occur? For me, you either value the other things that Saul brought that we've discussed here, or if you value WINNING above all, then you dismiss him at the end of last year. You can't have it both ways. If winning is most important, then the AD and the University's actions should reflect that.


From the article:
ďItís a business decision,Ē Schaus said Wednesday evening. ďItís a wins and losses decision entirely.Ē


Someone, please enlighten me what Jim Schaus has done over the last two years to help the business side of things to potentially improve things on the wins and losses side of things? Unless I'm mistaken, he's been publicly silent about this for nearly TWO YEARS. Some will say I have it in for him, and right now I do, because under his (or Nellis') lacking leadership, Ohio basketball is in this situation. Now, suddenly, it's all about "wins and losses entirely".

Want to increase your athletic department revenue with donations and ticket sales? Newsflash, this probably isn't the way to get people excited about the direction of your department Jim.


One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


While I agree you're probably correct, how do you end up being quoted as saying winning is the priority if you're not willing to cut ties with a coach who isn't winning up to your standards, and the fans standards?


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

Twitter: @ou_country

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 4:56:01 PM 
SBH wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.


And, again, Saul was seeking a multi-year extension plus robust raise back when we broke off negotiations. Schaus was smart to take a wait and see approach.


I wasn't aware there were even negotiations, much less a multi-year extension with a raise being sought. When did this take place?


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

Twitter: @ou_country

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GraffZ06
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Location: Dayton, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 5:10:37 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
While I agree you're probably correct, how do you end up being quoted as saying winning is the priority if you're not willing to cut ties with a coach who isn't winning up to your standards, and the fans standards?


You do realize it's not necessarily contradictory to say "winning is the most important thing" but then not immediately fire a guy in the middle of his tenure if, due to outside circumstances (i.e. available funds) you physically can't afford to fire the guy and hire his replacement - right?

Would you be happier if he fired Saul after year 4 - because winning matters and he wasn't doing enough of it - and then turned around and coached the team himself this year because we had $0 in the budget to hire somebody after paying Saul's buyout?

Maybe if JS had more money he WOULD have fired Saul earlier. Maybe not. I dunno. I'm just saying you taking this hard line of "ZOMG winning can't matter if you didn't fire the guy ZOMG Schaus is a lying POS" is a little over the top. Everybody has to live in the reality of an economic budget.

I fully expect our next hire to make less than Saul - just so we can hedge our bets and potentially avoid a repeat of this situation in the future where we can't afford to move on if we deem it necessary.



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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 5:43:18 PM 
Calm down. Arkley laid out a reasonable argument complete with a timeline that showed he turned around a bare cupboard into 2 very solid seasons, then injuries and a lack of extension hurt the results of the last 2. Nothing he said is unreasonable. Also, he is human...it is OK for him to like someone and defend them.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 5:52:22 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.


And, again, Saul was seeking a multi-year extension plus robust raise back when we broke off negotiations. Schaus was smart to take a wait and see approach.


I wasn't aware there were even negotiations, much less a multi-year extension with a raise being sought. When did this take place?


Well if the negotiations did take place, we can maybe see why they didnít talk too much the last 2 years. The question is how much of this talk about negotiations and not talking is true or just meer speculation.

Last Edited: 3/14/2019 6:14:46 PM by colobobcat66

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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 6:22:46 PM 
From the Plain Dealer article on MAC athletic operating costs it appears to me that even with the mandatory student fees and selling our souls to espn we still ďoperateĒ the athletic department at a multi-million dollar loss. Schaus had NO money to part ways with Saul early. And IF as some here say Saul was looking for an extension with a hefty raise there was NOTHING in his tenure here that would have supported that. Maybe thatís why Schaus turned his shoulder to ice in his dealings with Saul.

Iím NOT defending Schaus. He needs to look in the mirror as well and be held to account by his superiors. His last two b-ball hires have bombed big time. His next hire better be in the grand-slam category or we will be destined to watch the MAC tourney from Athens for the next decade.

I believe Schaus thought he hired himself a Rick Byrd type with Saul. Someone who could advance the program to a yearly contender who was not looking to take the next best offer out of Athens. My eyebrows however were raised early in Saulís first year. That team he inherited had talent but also had a Bean. I heard Saul on a Russ post-game show kind of in an off-handed way say hey itís what Iíve got to work with itís not my fault. IF Bean was the cancer lots of people have intimated he was, Saul should have Kadeem Greened his ass out. Saul in the process imo lost his best recruit when Ryan Taylor departed. That first year actually started the downfall.

Iím also not trying to throw dirt on Saulís grave. I wish he and his family the best in the future. Iíve been a faithful Bobcat since 1969. I absolutely loved being in the Convo during my 4 years on campus and in the years since. That said it was clearly time to go in a different direction. When we are offering schollies to a kid that chose West Liberty State College we are no longer on a path to even being relevant as a D1 program.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 6:24:50 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.


And, again, Saul was seeking a multi-year extension plus robust raise back when we broke off negotiations. Schaus was smart to take a wait and see approach.


I wasn't aware there were even negotiations, much less a multi-year extension with a raise being sought. When did this take place?


Well if the negotiations did take place, we can maybe see why they didnít talk too much the last 2 years. The question is how much of this talk about negotiations and not talking is true or just meer speculation.


When I've heard from our now former assistants that there was one on the table and that Schaus let it sit because he was interviewing elsewhere, yeah there's definitely blood in the water here. And if you're asking if this is a recent hot take, no this was from after last season when I heard this.....
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IceCat76
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 6:35:00 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.


And, again, Saul was seeking a multi-year extension plus robust raise back when we broke off negotiations. Schaus was smart to take a wait and see approach.


I wasn't aware there were even negotiations, much less a multi-year extension with a raise being sought. When did this take place?


Well if the negotiations did take place, we can maybe see why they didnít talk too much the last 2 years. The question is how much of this talk about negotiations and not talking is true or just meer speculation.


When I've heard from our now former assistants that there was one on the table and that Schaus let it sit because he was interviewing elsewhere, yeah there's definitely blood in the water here. And if you're asking if this is a recent hot take, no this was from after last season when I heard this.....


Iím not following you. Could you elaborate? Schaus left what on the table?
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 6:52:18 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:

One more time, tell me where the money is coming from to cut Saul and pay him for the last 2 years? We donít have the money it would seem. You can argue about the 5 year contract and youíve got a point, but once you signed youíre obligated to pay.


100% correct. Saul was a lame duck because there was no money and/or political appetite to pay the highest-paid guy at the university to go away.


And, again, Saul was seeking a multi-year extension plus robust raise back when we broke off negotiations. Schaus was smart to take a wait and see approach.


I wasn't aware there were even negotiations, much less a multi-year extension with a raise being sought. When did this take place?


Well if the negotiations did take place, we can maybe see why they didnít talk too much the last 2 years. The question is how much of this talk about negotiations and not talking is true or just meer speculation.


When I've heard from our now former assistants that there was one on the table and that Schaus let it sit because he was interviewing elsewhere, yeah there's definitely blood in the water here. And if you're asking if this is a recent hot take, no this was from after last season when I heard this.....


Iím not following you. Could you elaborate? Schaus left what on the table?


Contract extensions. They were out there after what Saul was doing those first few years.
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Arkley Saul Apologist Article
   Posted: 3/14/2019 7:53:01 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:


When I've heard from our now former assistants that there was one on the table and that Schaus let it sit because he was interviewing elsewhere, yeah there's definitely blood in the water here. And if you're asking if this is a recent hot take, no this was from after last season when I heard this.....


So you are saying he scored like Kadeem Green in the interview process?

(Using Kadeem Green as a verb is easily my new favorite thing in life. At least Jim Christian gave us one positive thing to hang onto)
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