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Topic:  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread

Topic:  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 3:21:18 PM 
It's a lot easier to recruit when you are perceived as being on your way up rather than on the way back down. Groce is the latter.

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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 3:29:34 PM 
SBH wrote:
It's a lot easier to recruit when you are perceived as being on your way up rather than on the way back down. Groce is the latter.



+1 VERY salient point.

I would stay FAR away from JG at this point. Leave the past in the past.

The character issues he's accepted have been very questionable time and time again, and this has continued at Akron. Don't walk, run away.


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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 5:00:35 PM 
brucecuth wrote:
Brett Nelson, Associate HC, Marquette.



From West Va. Has been an assistant at both Marshall and Ball St. so knows something about the territory.



Young, hungry, aggressive.


What does this mean? In the 40 years I've been in Athens, other than the Trent years, the best teams that we've had have had players from lots of states in addition to Ohio.
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Flomo-genized
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 5:07:34 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
brucecuth wrote:
Brett Nelson, Associate HC, Marquette.



From West Va. Has been an assistant at both Marshall and Ball St. so knows something about the territory.



Young, hungry, aggressive.


What does this mean? In the 40 years I've been in Athens, other than the Trent years, the best teams that we've had have had players from lots of states in addition to Ohio.


Of course you can't just rely on Ohio for talent, but at the same time this program simply won't succeed if it doesn't have a fairly steady pipeline of talent coming from the state. It's next to impossible for a school at our level to successfully compete on a perennial basis a drawing talent out of other regions.

Yes, you can supplement your local base by stretching to get kids from Florida, Texas, or even California from time to time. But bringing in a coach who has never recruited the OH/IN/IL/MI/PA/WV before on a regular basis, but instead has a recruiting base in, say, the southeast, is a recipe for disaster. You just won't be able to consistently persuade high-level talent to travel that far from home to play for a mid-major program where their family can rarely see them play.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 5:24:47 PM 
SBH wrote:
It's a lot easier to recruit when you are perceived as being on your way up rather than on the way back down. Groce is the latter.



Great point. Ive never thought of that but it makes perfect sense. At this point even if Groce was on the market Id say we move on because we need a fresh start.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 6:05:58 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
As an OU alumnus and someone who lives and breathes the Bobcats, I want a Bobcat. I want someone who will get the crowds and the O Zone back. I want someone who truly gets us.

Give me Aaron Fuss as the head coach...


I hate to break it to you, but Aaron Fuss is not a Bobcat. He went to Ohio State and got a degree in Agri-business. He never played college basketball.

That being said...I have always liked Fuss and work with his Dad...But Assistant at 22-43 Chattanooga to head coach at Ohio seems like a reach.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 9:24:48 PM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
SBH wrote:
It's a lot easier to recruit when you are perceived as being on your way up rather than on the way back down. Groce is the latter.



+1 VERY salient point.

I would stay FAR away from JG at this point. Leave the past in the past.

The character issues he's accepted have been very questionable time and time again, and this has continued at Akron. Don't walk, run away.




You dont care about coaches character issues, just the players they recruit. Very interesting.
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Jeff Hill
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 10:02:54 PM 
Dino Gaudio?????
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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 10:07:02 PM 
Not sure what the future holds for Jans but I just talked about him today. At what point does he get to move on from a stupid act? Like Eustachy he is a really good coach. Not sure how what he did differs from the former Iowa State coach but I wonder if Jans talent will ever afford him the chance to show that he made a mistake, learned and moved on. We seem to forgive bunches of people for lots of stuff but I am truly amazed how people seem to keep throwing it out there.

Seems like, in my circle, the same folks clamoring for shorter sentences, leniency and rehabilitation for guys who have committed serious crimes up to and including killing people are the same ones espousing lifetime bans and burying a career for a coach that said the wrong thing or was in the wrong place when he should not have been. If murderers "change and deserve a 2nd chance" why not a coach?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 11:49:18 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
brucecuth wrote:
Brett Nelson, Associate HC, Marquette.



From West Va. Has been an assistant at both Marshall and Ball St. so knows something about the territory.



Young, hungry, aggressive.


What does this mean? In the 40 years I've been in Athens, other than the Trent years, the best teams that we've had have had players from lots of states in addition to Ohio.


Well, the best team OHIO ever had had five starters all for southern Ohio. I'm talking Elite 8. I know, I know that was the dark ages and it's not relevant to today's world. . . blah, blah, blah .... just saying . . .


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/14/2019 11:56:26 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
brucecuth wrote:
Brett Nelson, Associate HC, Marquette.



From West Va. Has been an assistant at both Marshall and Ball St. so knows something about the territory.



Young, hungry, aggressive.


What does this mean? In the 40 years I've been in Athens, other than the Trent years, the best teams that we've had have had players from lots of states in addition to Ohio.


Well, the best team OHIO ever had had five starters all for southern Ohio. I'm talking Elite 8. I know, I know that was the dark ages and it's not relevant to today's world. . . blah, blah, blah .... just saying . . .


Specifically, we're talking Corning (Gill and Jackson), Portsmouth (Haley), Xenia (Storey), and Cincinnati (Hilt).


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 7:21:02 AM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
Not sure what the future holds for Jans but I just talked about him today. At what point does he get to move on from a stupid act? Like Eustachy he is a really good coach. Not sure how what he did differs from the former Iowa State coach but I wonder if Jans talent will ever afford him the chance to show that he made a mistake, learned and moved on. We seem to forgive bunches of people for lots of stuff but I am truly amazed how people seem to keep throwing it out there.

Seems like, in my circle, the same folks clamoring for shorter sentences, leniency and rehabilitation for guys who have committed serious crimes up to and including killing people are the same ones espousing lifetime bans and burying a career for a coach that said the wrong thing or was in the wrong place when he should not have been. If murderers "change and deserve a 2nd chance" why not a coach?


By any reasonable measure he's gotten a second chance and I'm not sure why coaching at New Mexico State is considered a lifetime ban.

Jans was fired with good reason at BG, got hired back at Wichita State almost immediately, and is a head coach again and has been for two seasons. He's gotten a second chance; it seems unreasonable to set an expectation that he should get a second chance and the mistake he made should never be mentioned again.

Last Edited: 3/15/2019 8:02:39 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 9:49:02 AM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
Seems like, in my circle, the same folks clamoring for shorter sentences, leniency and rehabilitation for guys who have committed serious crimes up to and including killing people are the same ones espousing lifetime bans and burying a career for a coach that said the wrong thing or was in the wrong place when he should not have been. If murderers "change and deserve a 2nd chance" why not a coach?


We choose our circles. You need to find a different / better circle.

Last Edited: 3/15/2019 9:49:12 AM by cc-cat

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 11:05:38 AM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
Seems like, in my circle, the same folks clamoring for shorter sentences, leniency and rehabilitation for guys who have committed serious crimes up to and including killing people are the same ones espousing lifetime bans and burying a career for a coach that said the wrong thing or was in the wrong place when he should not have been. If murderers "change and deserve a 2nd chance" why not a coach?


This. It's a weird dichotomy between those who claim to be for "criminal justice reform" but at the same time like to bury someone's career over accusations or poor (yet legal) choices. Doesn't matter if you're talking about coaches, players or supreme court justices.

If you're for second chances, be for second chances. Don't have caveats that fit your own personal agenda. I'm entirely OK with a new coach that is in need of a 2nd chance, if they are a good fit for our program. In fact, one could argue that a coach in that situation will work harder to prove themselves.

IMO, Jans would be an outstanding hire and fits what we need right now.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 11:15:56 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
longtiimelurker wrote:
Seems like, in my circle, the same folks clamoring for shorter sentences, leniency and rehabilitation for guys who have committed serious crimes up to and including killing people are the same ones espousing lifetime bans and burying a career for a coach that said the wrong thing or was in the wrong place when he should not have been. If murderers "change and deserve a 2nd chance" why not a coach?


This. It's a weird dichotomy between those who claim to be for "criminal justice reform" but at the same time like to bury someone's career over accusations or poor (yet legal) choices. Doesn't matter if you're talking about coaches, players or supreme court justices.

If you're for second chances, be for second chances. Don't have caveats that fit your own personal agenda. I'm entirely OK with a new coach that is in need of a 2nd chance, if they are a good fit for our program. In fact, one could argue that a coach in that situation will work harder to prove themselves.

IMO, Jans would be an outstanding hire and fits what we need right now.


I tend to agree with this post. However, I wasn't sure what people were talking about so I looked it up and found the video. I wonder how this would play out in Athens? When you watch it, turn off your sound and just watch. The voice has nothing to do with the action in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WbcCDgIbAw
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 12:13:33 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
I tend to agree with this post. However, I wasn't sure what people were talking about so I looked it up and found the video. I wonder how this would play out in Athens? When you watch it, turn off your sound and just watch. The voice has nothing to do with the action in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WbcCDgIbAw


If it occurred in Athens today, I suspect it would be met with the same (if not more) outcry than it was at BG. Especially given the national environment toward these sort of things right now.

Part of me also thinks that we, as a society, have become more desensitized to these things, though. Especially when there are far worse sort of scandals that seem to make the news every night. So who knows how it might play out in 2019 Athens?

Worth noting, that Jans was the longtime assistant to Marshall at Wichita State. So there is certainly a connection with Schaus there. Seeing as how Marshall re-hired Jans after the incident, I suspect he would "vouch" for him to JS.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 12:29:24 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
longtiimelurker wrote:
Seems like, in my circle, the same folks clamoring for shorter sentences, leniency and rehabilitation for guys who have committed serious crimes up to and including killing people are the same ones espousing lifetime bans and burying a career for a coach that said the wrong thing or was in the wrong place when he should not have been. If murderers "change and deserve a 2nd chance" why not a coach?


This. It's a weird dichotomy between those who claim to be for "criminal justice reform" but at the same time like to bury someone's career over accusations or poor (yet legal) choices. Doesn't matter if you're talking about coaches, players or supreme court justices.

If you're for second chances, be for second chances. Don't have caveats that fit your own personal agenda. I'm entirely OK with a new coach that is in need of a 2nd chance, if they are a good fit for our program. In fact, one could argue that a coach in that situation will work harder to prove themselves.

IMO, Jans would be an outstanding hire and fits what we need right now.


I don't understand how Jans represents this at all.

He was terminated, immediately rehired by Wichita State and then very shortly after that got a new head coaching job. How was his career buried? It feels like you're making a completely unrelated point about a cultural issue you're concerned about and tenuously tying it back to Jans.






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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 12:39:50 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I don't understand how Jans represents this at all.

He was terminated, immediately rehired by Wichita State and then very shortly after that got a new head coaching job. How was his career buried? It feels like you're making a completely unrelated point about a cultural issue you're concerned about and tenuously tying it back to Jans.


My point extends far beyond the Jans example. He landed on his feet at NMSU and hopefully will get a chance to move "up" at some point, if he desires.

Nevertheless, I suspect this incident will give some schools pause about hiring him. So while it may not "bury" his career, one can certainly argue that it may dampen it (as far as future job prospects, earning potential, etc).
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 1:00:43 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
As an OU alumnus and someone who lives and breathes the Bobcats, I want a Bobcat. I want someone who will get the crowds and the O Zone back. I want someone who truly gets us.

Give me Aaron Fuss as the head coach...


I hate to break it to you, but Aaron Fuss is not a Bobcat. He went to Ohio State and got a degree in Agri-business. He never played college basketball.

That being said...I have always liked Fuss and work with his Dad...But Assistant at 22-43 Chattanooga to head coach at Ohio seems like a reach.


I know he graduated from Ohio State but all of his time spent at OU makes him a Bobcat. I don't necessarily mean that I want only OU graduates. I simply want people who fully understand the O Zone and the college vibe. I want someone who lives and dies Athens and the green and white. Whether he did or not, Saul never conveyed that to me as a fan.

Last Edited: 3/15/2019 1:01:50 PM by Bobcat1998

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 1:49:10 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
As an OU alumnus and someone who lives and breathes the Bobcats, I want a Bobcat. I want someone who will get the crowds and the O Zone back. I want someone who truly gets us.

Give me Aaron Fuss as the head coach...


I hate to break it to you, but Aaron Fuss is not a Bobcat. He went to Ohio State and got a degree in Agri-business. He never played college basketball.

That being said...I have always liked Fuss and work with his Dad...But Assistant at 22-43 Chattanooga to head coach at Ohio seems like a reach.


I know he graduated from Ohio State but all of his time spent at OU makes him a Bobcat. I don't necessarily mean that I want only OU graduates. I simply want people who fully understand the O Zone and the college vibe. I want someone who lives and dies Athens and the green and white. Whether he did or not, Saul never conveyed that to me as a fan.



So.... you only want alumni or people who have worked on our staff?
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 1:57:01 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
As an OU alumnus and someone who lives and breathes the Bobcats, I want a Bobcat. I want someone who will get the crowds and the O Zone back. I want someone who truly gets us.

Give me Aaron Fuss as the head coach...


I hate to break it to you, but Aaron Fuss is not a Bobcat. He went to Ohio State and got a degree in Agri-business. He never played college basketball.

That being said...I have always liked Fuss and work with his Dad...But Assistant at 22-43 Chattanooga to head coach at Ohio seems like a reach.


I know he graduated from Ohio State but all of his time spent at OU makes him a Bobcat. I don't necessarily mean that I want only OU graduates. I simply want people who fully understand the O Zone and the college vibe. I want someone who lives and dies Athens and the green and white. Whether he did or not, Saul never conveyed that to me as a fan.



So.... you only want alumni or people who have worked on our staff?


That's quite the large pool of candidates to choose from! ;)



Twitter: @ou_country

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 2:16:49 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I don't understand how Jans represents this at all.

He was terminated, immediately rehired by Wichita State and then very shortly after that got a new head coaching job. How was his career buried? It feels like you're making a completely unrelated point about a cultural issue you're concerned about and tenuously tying it back to Jans.


Nevertheless, I suspect this incident will give some schools pause about hiring him. So while it may not "bury" his career, one can certainly argue that it may dampen it (as far as future job prospects, earning potential, etc).


Of course the incident will give some schools pause about hiring him. Actions have consequences and it would border on negligence to not consider it when considering his candidacy. Any AD interviewing him should ask him several pointed questions and do their due diligence. If, through that process, they determine that he's the best candidate for the job, then they should hire him.

But the idea that it's somehow out of bounds to so much as consider Jans' drunken behavior (which included public sexual harassment) when making a hiring decision is ridiculous. I get that you think we're in the midst of a problematic cultural moment, but you're over-correcting more than a little bit.

Jans made a stupid, public mistake. Stupid, public mistakes often times carry professional implications and employers have every right to consider whether said mistake is representative of a larger problem or was an aberration.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 2:37:08 PM 
Someone already brought up Pat Kelsey and I'll just throw his name out there again:

-Can recruit Ohio and has Midwest ties.
-Cut from the same cloth and comes from almost the same tree as Groce.
-Has former Ohio coach Jayson Gee on staff.

People like to bring up the fact that he went to UMass only to turn it down moments later. There's probably a reason for that don't you think? Maybe he's not wanting to get into a bigger program right away or ever. Maybe UMass was a mess that he wasn't willing to clean up no matter how much money. Ohio may be just enough of a step up for him.

If Schaus is only looking at prior head coaching experience, he has to be on the short list.



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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 3:17:16 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Someone already brought up Pat Kelsey and I'll just throw his name out there again:

-Can recruit Ohio and has Midwest ties.
-Cut from the same cloth and comes from almost the same tree as Groce.
-Has former Ohio coach Jayson Gee on staff.

People like to bring up the fact that he went to UMass only to turn it down moments later. There's probably a reason for that don't you think? Maybe he's not wanting to get into a bigger program right away or ever. Maybe UMass was a mess that he wasn't willing to clean up no matter how much money. Ohio may be just enough of a step up for him.

If Schaus is only looking at prior head coaching experience, he has to be on the short list.


If you want to make inroads at a school like Moeller, this is your guy.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/15/2019 6:03:34 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Someone already brought up Pat Kelsey and I'll just throw his name out there again:

-Can recruit Ohio and has Midwest ties.
-Cut from the same cloth and comes from almost the same tree as Groce.
-Has former Ohio coach Jayson Gee on staff.

People like to bring up the fact that he went to UMass only to turn it down moments later. There's probably a reason for that don't you think? Maybe he's not wanting to get into a bigger program right away or ever. Maybe UMass was a mess that he wasn't willing to clean up no matter how much money. Ohio may be just enough of a step up for him.

If Schaus is only looking at prior head coaching experience, he has to be on the short list.



People bring up UMass because of the money he turned down, not because of the about face.

Given that he knows he's worth a million on the market, it'd be surprising for him to turn around and accept half of that from another one bid league.

I think selling an existing HC on taking over a team returning everybody from a Sweet 16 team (or even a team a season removed from the Sweet 16) is a much easier proposition than selling them on leaving for a rebuilding MAC team. This job's different than it was during our last two coaching searches; I'm not convinced the same playbook applies.

Last Edited: 3/15/2019 6:05:41 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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