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Topic:  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread

Topic:  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
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IceCat76
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 11:42:51 AM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Could Andy Kennedy still be considered a darkhorse candidate. Or the other Kennedy who was let go from Texas A&M yesterday?


This would be rediculous. The first sign of success would lead them out. Plus, what connection would they have to OU and being a "Bobcat?"


Not advocating for either Kennedy, I don't really know either.. But the two most successful coaches (Nee & Groce) we've had here since Jim Snyder were not "Bobcats". I want the the best coach available. I don't want some guy because he has a "Bobcat" legacy. I'm perfectly happy with an up and coming fast burner that's here for 4 or 5 years and moves on. Then we bring in another fast burner. The days of Jim Snyder are over. Good coaches don't stick in the MAC for very long.

Last Edited: 3/13/2019 11:44:30 AM by IceCat76

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ts1227
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 11:44:11 AM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Could Andy Kennedy still be considered a darkhorse candidate. Or the other Kennedy who was let go from Texas A&M yesterday?


This would be rediculous. The first sign of success would lead them out. Plus, what connection would they have to OU and being a "Bobcat?"


All that gets you is Joe Carbone *shudder*

Last Edited: 3/13/2019 11:44:22 AM by ts1227

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 11:49:46 AM 
I'll toss out the name of another assistant coach from a P-5...

Amir Abdur-Rahim

Georgia + Texas A&M, College of Charleston, Georgia Tech and Murray State.

Maybe it's time for a minority men's basketball coach.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 11:57:38 AM 
Just took a look at the Stony Brook record for this year. It's pretty impressive, with some non-conference wins over some good teams. The upset in the first-round of the conference tournament is a real head-scratcher. Maybe he wasn't concentrating on his coaching as he was thinking too much about prospects of coming back to OHIO. ;-)

Here's the complete schedule and results for those interested:

https://stonybrookathletics.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=333


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Flomo-genized
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 11:57:55 AM 
If we're going to hire some from anywhere outside the Midwest they have to have experience recruiting Ohio. Someone like Abdur-Rahim doesn't fit the bill.

Last Edited: 3/13/2019 11:58:08 AM by Flomo-genized

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:17:17 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Flomo-genized wrote:
Copied from the retain Saul thread:

The most important thing to look at, IMO, is the assistant's recruiting track record. Groce was a grand slam hire because he was one of the nation's top recruiters, period. If you go back and look at the number of 5 Stars he was pulling in at OSU, it was remarkable.

Pedon may be a fine coach, but he is no where near the level that Groce was. That's why I'm saying Tom Ostrom's the guy. He's already landed two 5 Stars in Langford and Jackson-Davis, plus an elite 4 star out of Columbus in Jerome Hunter. He knows how to recruit at the highest level, and knows how to recruit Ohio. Plus he has worked under a pack-line defensive guy in Archie, who just so happens to come from the same coaching tree as Groce.

I'll say it again, Ostrom is the guy.


I like the idea. Here's his profile from IU:

https://iuhoosiers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=2373


I'm open to other ideas, but this guy and his staff sound too good. He's only been there 2 seasons so what would it cost to buy out his contract?

Buyout money is going to limit the pool of possibles.


He's the assistant to Archie Miller at IU. Moving up to head coach wouldn't dictate a buyout, would it?


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:19:27 PM 
DJCooperBurnerAccount wrote:
https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/03/ohio-mens-b...

Article from The Post brings up 4 names:

Boals

Pedon

Dustin Ford

Brannen


Of the four, Brannen is the best candidate. But, as Ted said, getting him to Athens would require more money than I suspect Ohio can pay.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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BobcatPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:19:49 PM 
I'll be excited if they hire anyone who has a PROVEN record of being able to recruit in Ohio/Midwest. Next is having the personality to have players want to stay with you for four years. Those are the keys to being successful at OHIO.

Perhaps there are a few good candidates out there for us to choose from.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:20:41 PM 
greencat wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Could Andy Kennedy still be considered a darkhorse candidate. Or the other Kennedy who was let go from Texas A&M yesterday?


This would be rediculous. The first sign of success would lead them out. Plus, what connection would they have to OU and being a "Bobcat?"


Kennedy coached at Cincinnati and the other coached at notoriously good mid-major Murray State.

What connection did Tim O'Shea have to Athens? Groce? Phillips? JC?

No more than the Kennedy guys. They are both 50 years old which may be too old to go job hopping. Kind of a "Solich" thing for hoops.



I'd be all for Andy Kennedy assuming he's in the right pay range. I don't expect it to happen though.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:21:03 PM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
If we're going to hire some from anywhere outside the Midwest they have to have experience recruiting Ohio. Someone like Abdur-Rahim doesn't fit the bill.


Ja Morant wasn't from anywhere near Murray, Ky. They got him from some spot in the road town in South Carolina. He's one of the top mid-major players of all time. Will be a top-3 NBA pick.

Recruiting Ohio and Chicago/Milwaukee is important. So is recruiting anywhere else you have a shot at the next Ja Morant.
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IceCat76
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:21:19 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Flomo-genized wrote:
Copied from the retain Saul thread:

The most important thing to look at, IMO, is the assistant's recruiting track record. Groce was a grand slam hire because he was one of the nation's top recruiters, period. If you go back and look at the number of 5 Stars he was pulling in at OSU, it was remarkable.

Pedon may be a fine coach, but he is no where near the level that Groce was. That's why I'm saying Tom Ostrom's the guy. He's already landed two 5 Stars in Langford and Jackson-Davis, plus an elite 4 star out of Columbus in Jerome Hunter. He knows how to recruit at the highest level, and knows how to recruit Ohio. Plus he has worked under a pack-line defensive guy in Archie, who just so happens to come from the same coaching tree as Groce.

I'll say it again, Ostrom is the guy.


I like the idea. Here's his profile from IU:

https://iuhoosiers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=2373


I'm open to other ideas, but this guy and his staff sound too good. He's only been there 2 seasons so what would it cost to buy out his contract?

Buyout money is going to limit the pool of possibles.



Oops...I meant to make this comment about Lamount Paris at Chattanooga, although taking a second look I like Ostrom quite a bit also.
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:23:49 PM 

OhioCatFan wrote:
Just took a look at the Stony Brook record for this year. It's pretty impressive, with some non-conference wins over some good teams. The upset in the first-round of the conference tournament is a real head-scratcher. Maybe he wasn't concentrating on his coaching as he was thinking too much about prospects of coming back to OHIO. ;-)

Here's the complete schedule and results for those interested:

https://stonybrookathletics.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=333 

There's not a discernible trend with Boals. He took over an NCAA team that was ranked 94th in 2016. In 2017, they dropped to 213. Which was understandable given they only returned 34% of minutes. They dropped to 223 in 2018 and were at 170 this year. Offensively, they have been poor. Ranking 223rd, 311th and 271st the last three seasons. I would doubt he gets many looks from other schools this offseason. Jury is still out, IMO.

 


Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:27:44 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
I am going to throw some young, inexperienced (in terms of head coaching) names at you and see what you all think. As an OU alumnus and someone who lives and breathes the Bobcats, I want a Bobcat. I want someone who will get the crowds and the O Zone back. I want someone who truly gets us.

Ric Johnson
Tommy Freeman
Aaron Fuss
Dante Jackson
Walt
David McKinley

Give me Aaron Fuss as the head coach and have him hire any of the three above and I am sold. We went with experience with Saul and Christian and while Christian could recruit a bit, he didn't care about Athens. Saul seems to care about Athens but did he ever truly "become" OU like Frank did?

Go ahead and proceed to ripping this suggestion :)


Other than Fuss, none of those guys are remotely qualified for the job at this time. Now, I'd be happy as hell to have one or two of them back here as assistants. I'm with others in that "being a Bobcat" shouldn't be part of the qualification. And I almost guarantee that isn't part of Schaus' approach. If the coach happens to be a Bobcat, that's just a bonus.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:29:19 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
IceCat76 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Flomo-genized wrote:
Copied from the retain Saul thread:

The most important thing to look at, IMO, is the assistant's recruiting track record. Groce was a grand slam hire because he was one of the nation's top recruiters, period. If you go back and look at the number of 5 Stars he was pulling in at OSU, it was remarkable.

Pedon may be a fine coach, but he is no where near the level that Groce was. That's why I'm saying Tom Ostrom's the guy. He's already landed two 5 Stars in Langford and Jackson-Davis, plus an elite 4 star out of Columbus in Jerome Hunter. He knows how to recruit at the highest level, and knows how to recruit Ohio. Plus he has worked under a pack-line defensive guy in Archie, who just so happens to come from the same coaching tree as Groce.

I'll say it again, Ostrom is the guy.


I like the idea. Here's his profile from IU:

https://iuhoosiers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=2373


I'm open to other ideas, but this guy and his staff sound too good. He's only been there 2 seasons so what would it cost to buy out his contract?

Buyout money is going to limit the pool of possibles.



Oops...I meant to make this comment about Lamount Paris at Chattanooga, although taking a second look I like Ostrom quite a bit also.


Ahhhh, I gotcha. Well, that's a different story altogether. Paris is worth a look I think.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 12:41:46 PM 
I would have to think that most new coaches that take over a mid-major school would need to consecutive NCAA appearances with some wins to move to the next level, AKA Groce.
Jeff hasn't had that success yet.

I firmly believe that we need a tuff minded coach to instill that kind of mind set on our team. Saul did not have that character trait.



GO BOBCATS
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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 1:32:47 PM 
Flomo-genized wrote:
If we're going to hire some from anywhere outside the Midwest they have to have experience recruiting Ohio. Someone like Abdur-Rahim doesn't fit the bill.


No kidding, glad to see you back Flomo. Glad to see some understanding of the process. Groce was good at Butler, Xavier, State and here because he understood his recruiting footprint. Dragged Indiana kids to his first 3 schools and understood and built contacts once he got to Xavier that served him well once he got a head coaching job. Illinois was way out of his footprint as he never cracked the Chicago cartel where bags of money and deals with white guys don't happen much these days.

The IU assistant is actually a good look as is Pedon who has plyed the MAC and been at Illinois, Butler and now Ohio State. Seen a lot of systems and has worked under great teachers. Time for him to put it on the line. Hoping we keep a key member of this staff as an assistant.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 1:42:23 PM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
Flomo-genized wrote:
If we're going to hire some from anywhere outside the Midwest they have to have experience recruiting Ohio. Someone like Abdur-Rahim doesn't fit the bill.


No kidding, glad to see you back Flomo. Glad to see some understanding of the process. Groce was good at Butler, Xavier, State and here because he understood his recruiting footprint. Dragged Indiana kids to his first 3 schools and understood and built contacts once he got to Xavier that served him well once he got a head coaching job. Illinois was way out of his footprint as he never cracked the Chicago cartel where bags of money and deals with white guys don't happen much these days.

The IU assistant is actually a good look as is Pedon who has plyed the MAC and been at Illinois, Butler and now Ohio State. Seen a lot of systems and has worked under great teachers. Time for him to put it on the line. Hoping we keep a key member of this staff as an assistant.



Regarding "Hoping we keep a key member of this staff as an assistant."....who is that guy? It's not as if anyone was beating down doors to hire our assistants elsewhere for the last five years. Other than to appease the current roster of players, I'm not sure what that might accomplish.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 1:43:13 PM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
Hoping we keep a key member of this staff as an assistant.



Who might that be?

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ChampCityBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 1:54:08 PM 
What about a guy like Dane Fife? Longtime Assistant for Izzo. Decent head HC experience with IPFW prior to that and a really solid playing career.

He can obviously recruit the region. Seems to check all of the boxes for me.
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DJCooperBurnerAccount
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 2:02:37 PM 
Quote:

Hoping we keep a key member of this staff as an assistant.


Drew?

Last Edited: 3/13/2019 2:03:17 PM by DJCooperBurnerAccount

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 4:36:29 PM 
I don't think it will be Boals. From what I understand, it would require either Schaus or Boals, if not both, to put egos aside. Schaus may not think of Boals as worth for the job and Boals may not want to work for Schaus. All the following are what I was told by trustworthy people.

- Schaus wanted to bring Boals in to be Groce's top assistant when he was hired. Boals, for personal reasons, elected to stay at Akron instead. It's unclear if Schaus felt snubbed or not.
- Schaus did not consider Boals in 2012. Any talks that may have happened between the two were strictly a courtesy.
- Schaus again did not seriously consider Boals in 2014, despite some talks between the two. This time, Boals took it as a snub.

None of this is an assessment of Boals's ability as a coach (I think we can do better) but just my understand of the history between the two men.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 5:12:47 PM 
greencat wrote:
Flomo-genized wrote:
If we're going to hire some from anywhere outside the Midwest they have to have experience recruiting Ohio. Someone like Abdur-Rahim doesn't fit the bill.


Ja Morant wasn't from anywhere near Murray, Ky. They got him from some spot in the road town in South Carolina. He's one of the top mid-major players of all time. Will be a top-3 NBA pick.

Recruiting Ohio and Chicago/Milwaukee is important. So is recruiting anywhere else you have a shot at the next Ja Morant.


+1
I don't think it's necessarily about "experience recruiting Ohio", but simply recruiting in general. It's about building relationships, for one thing. I don't wanna name names, because I can't confirm the story. There's a kid here in Central Ohio who will probably be first team all-Dispatch. He's gonna play in the Ivy League next year. I was told by people at his high school that they attempted to get Ohio interested in this kid when he was a sophomore, but the Bobcat staff wouldn't even return their calls. That, friends, is not how you build relationships.

I wonder if Saul ever built good relationships with Bobcat alums like Sonny Johnson at Garfield Heights or Kirk Lehman at Defiance. My memory ain't what it used to be, but did Saul ever bring anyone in from Cuyahoga County, Johnson's stomping grounds? Both could be of tremendous help identifying players. I know there's others inside and outside Ohio who would probably be more than happy to assist. All it takes is a phone call to get it started.

Recruiting can't simply be about the head coach. The assistants have to carry the load a lot of the time. During the season in particular the assistants are the ones on the road. For them it's not only about building relationships but in many cases, getting the initial look at the players and projecting how they'll do in college. Were ours good at this part of their job?

You've also got to be one hell of a salesman, be prepared not to take no for answer (within reason) and be persistent. I thought when Saul first came here he could be that salesman. He was effusive about the university and city of Athens. But too often we've seen kids that I thought would be great fits go elsewhere, and when it happens, I wonder what could have been done better or differently to convince them to become Bobcats. Were we persistent enough, imaginative enough?

Was there ever any self evaluation done about the entire recruiting process? Who's doing it, how we're doing it, the kids we are recruiting, why they come and why they don't? Are we getting enough kids who are ready to contribute? Too many who are projects? Swings and misses are the nature of the game. But the same staff that brought in Jason Carter also gave a scholarship to Ben Wight. No offense to young Mr. Wight, but having seen them both play in high school, there simply is no comparison.

You can't limit yourself. There are good players everywhere. Identify them and go after them hard! Remember, the Sweet 16 team had guys like Nick Kellog from Cbus, but also D.J Cooper from Chi-town. We couldn't have gotten as far as we did without both.

Last Edited: 3/13/2019 5:14:36 PM by brucecuth

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 5:18:46 PM 
JSF wrote:
I don't think it will be Boals. From what I understand, it would require either Schaus or Boals, if not both, to put egos aside. Schaus may not think of Boals as worth for the job and Boals may not want to work for Schaus. All the following are what I was told by trustworthy people.

- Schaus wanted to bring Boals in to be Groce's top assistant when he was hired. Boals, for personal reasons, elected to stay at Akron instead. It's unclear if Schaus felt snubbed or not.
- Schaus did not consider Boals in 2012. Any talks that may have happened between the two were strictly a courtesy.
- Schaus again did not seriously consider Boals in 2014, despite some talks between the two. This time, Boals took it as a snub.

None of this is an assessment of Boals's ability as a coach (I think we can do better) but just my understand of the history between the two men.


I agree with this. There may be some bad blood dating back to Boals' tenure as an assistant to Keith Dambrot. Bubba Walther related bad blood. I can tell you for a fact that Akron believes our staff meddled in that case. They also believed Groce was saying some unsavory things about their program when meeting with recruits' parents.

Last Edited: 3/13/2019 5:22:16 PM by SBH

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 7:56:20 PM 
BobcatPride wrote:
I'll be excited if they hire anyone who has a PROVEN record of being able to recruit in Ohio/Midwest. Next is having the personality to have players want to stay with you for four years. Those are the keys to being successful at OHIO.

Perhaps there are a few good candidates out there for us to choose from.


40% of players transfer by the end of their soph year. Not sure.a coach's "personality" can avoid transfers.

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Chico's Bail Bonds
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official BobcatAttack Coaching Search Thread
   Posted: 3/13/2019 8:46:37 PM 
Thad Matta.
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