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Topic:  RE: Future Coach

Topic:  RE: Future Coach
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finnOhio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/5/2019 9:55:42 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
How about Tommy Amaker?


He makes 700k and Harvard is a better job than Ohio.


Interesting comment. Would you say that Penn, Princeton and Yale are better jobs than Ohio also?



How are these jobs quantified? Easiest measure is salary, and that's a higher salary than OHIO is likely to offer. We are all fighting for automatic berths, so the at-large discussion doesn't fit any of these schools. In that case, I think any team fighting for only an automatic berth is even in terms of job quality, and then the dollars make up the difference. Is OHIO a better job than EMU? Sure, it's a better university, but they are fighting for the same thing. Thus, what you get paid determines which job is better.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/5/2019 10:02:16 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
How about Tommy Amaker?


He makes 700k and Harvard is a better job than Ohio.


Interesting comment. Would you say that Penn, Princeton and Yale are better jobs than Ohio also?



Penn and Princeton almost certainly; Yale's probably a bit tougher to say, but I'd probably lean towards Yale as a better job than Ohio.

Harvard, Princeton, and Penn all pay better (I couldn't find the number for Yale's coach, fyi), are far more prestigious schools, and have endowments that basically give them limitless resources. If you perform well in those jobs and want to stick around longterm, the alumni will make sure you're well taken care of. They're also all located in or close to major metropolitan areas.

What's the case that Ohio's a better job? Why would a coach want to take a pay cut to coach at a school in a different one bid league and have to sell recruits on a worse education?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/5/2019 10:04:28 AM 
finnOhio wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
How about Tommy Amaker?


He makes 700k and Harvard is a better job than Ohio.


Interesting comment. Would you say that Penn, Princeton and Yale are better jobs than Ohio also?



How are these jobs quantified? Easiest measure is salary, and that's a higher salary than OHIO is likely to offer. We are all fighting for automatic berths, so the at-large discussion doesn't fit any of these schools. In that case, I think any team fighting for only an automatic berth is even in terms of job quality, and then the dollars make up the difference. Is OHIO a better job than EMU? Sure, it's a better university, but they are fighting for the same thing. Thus, what you get paid determines which job is better.


I think there are other factors to consider, as well. Harvard can recruit nationally, is located in a major metropolitan area, has the largest endowment of any university in the world, and can also, you know, pitch the quality of the education to recruits.
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Brian Smith
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/5/2019 1:57:02 PM 
I'm fine with young and cheap. Find somebody innovative and take a chance on him. Track records are great, but the program is not in the financial position to dole out hundreds of thousands of dollars for a retread. Go high risk, high reward and outside the box. I'm willing to see the program swing and miss on a guy as long as they take a chance on a guy who could become the next big thing.

I fully understand that these are the moves that get AD's fired.

Last Edited: 2/5/2019 1:57:46 PM by Brian Smith


Been kicking up sparks/we set the flames free/The windows are locked now so what'll it be?/A house on fire or a rising sea?

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/5/2019 3:01:30 PM 
As the previous poster said,"young and cheap" may be the way to go. According to the MAC records thread 2014-present, Buffalo, Akron and Kent have been at the top of the league. Not for certain, but going back ten plus years, Akron and Kent were still probably the teams to beat. Ohio has not won a regular season title and MAC tournament in the same season since Gary Trent played. I'm not for paying the next guy more than the last guy made, but Ohio's AD seems to go that route. Wouldn't be shocked if indeed a new coach is hired, he will be paid $600,000 or more.

Last Edited: 2/5/2019 3:02:33 PM by Bobcat1996

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/7/2019 3:12:50 AM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
As the previous poster said,"young and cheap" may be the way to go. According to the MAC records thread 2014-present, Buffalo, Akron and Kent have been at the top of the league. Not for certain, but going back ten plus years, Akron and Kent were still probably the teams to beat. Ohio has not won a regular season title and MAC tournament in the same season since Gary Trent played. I'm not for paying the next guy more than the last guy made, but Ohio's AD seems to go that route. Wouldn't be shocked if indeed a new coach is hired, he will be paid $600,000 or more.


I would be shocked. Who's to say the AD is the only person who will be making these decisions? I'm guessing the job will pay about $400,000-450,000.

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/7/2019 9:33:11 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
I would be shocked. Who's to say the AD is the only person who will be making these decisions? I'm guessing the job will pay about $400,000-450,000.


That would be about my guess - if not less. One thing that gave me a glimpse into the new hiring world under Nellis (see my other thread) was the new softball coach. She would certainly fit into the "young and cheap" category.

Albeit on a smaller scale, that hire makes me think we may be forced to go in the same direction for basketball. Saul's replacement may give us a big look into how little support athletics is getting from the upper administration.
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WittenburgT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/7/2019 1:31:10 PM 
New account here bc old account got messed up...
What about Dante Jackson from Xavier?

-Ohio Guy
-Worked at Ohio with Groce
-Very successful player
-Knows the area
-Young energetic coach which will be a good look for the program
-Has successfully recruited area for NKU, Kent St, Robert Morris, Xavier
-Something we've never had at Ohio
-Would be able to hire a good staff
-Would cost the least amount of money

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/9/2019 10:32:24 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
I would be shocked. Who's to say the AD is the only person who will be making these decisions? I'm guessing the job will pay about $400,000-450,000.


That would be about my guess - if not less. One thing that gave me a glimpse into the new hiring world under Nellis (see my other thread) was the new softball coach. She would certainly fit into the "young and cheap" category.

Albeit on a smaller scale, that hire makes me think we may be forced to go in the same direction for basketball. Saul's replacement may give us a big look into how little support athletics is getting from the upper administration.


At the time Ohio hired Saul it was only 2 years removed from its run to the Sweet 16 and hired him to the leagues best salary to push the MAC to step it up. Flash forward 5 years and Buffalo has replaced us as the top program in the MAC with a coach paid at a higher rate than ours. The MAC as we know has stepped up coaching salaries across the conference. Therefore with mission accomplished as far as stepping things up Ohio doesn't need to carry the conference anymore and could step down to $400,000 for a big time assistant with the idea of giving raises up into the 700,000 range if he can make the tournament instead of paying that kind of money day one.


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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/10/2019 8:25:45 AM 
WittenburgT wrote:
New account here bc old account got messed up...
What about Dante Jackson from Xavier?

-Ohio Guy
-Worked at Ohio with Groce
-Very successful player
-Knows the area
-Young energetic coach which will be a good look for the program
-Has successfully recruited area for NKU, Kent St, Robert Morris, Xavier
-Something we've never had at Ohio
-Would be able to hire a good staff
-Would cost the least amount of money



What makes you think he has been doing any of the heavy lifting in recruiting? I am pretty sure he is Xavier's 3rd assistant coach, not the lead one. Plus they are garbage this year.

Also, how would he be able to hire a good staff? He's 30 years old and has only been above the GA assistant ranks for about 4 years now.

Right now he is way too young and inexperienced to consider. Although, I do like him as an assistant.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/10/2019 7:22:44 PM 
OK, my turn and yes he's from the south.

Wes Miller at UNC-Greensboro - age 36.

This is his 3rd really good season in a row. Pony up and get the guy.

Buyout $$ will be involved.

Last Edited: 2/10/2019 7:24:52 PM by greencat

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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/10/2019 9:59:59 PM 
I'm not really too concerned about age. Experience as a head coach? Helpful, but not required.

I would look for someone hungry and aggressive, the more experience as a lead recruiter, the better. I thought Saul would be a real salesman, but it hasn't turned out that way. I'd look to see what type of kids any candidate recruited at current school. Lots of projects? I think Saul has recruited a few too many. What about plans for assistants? They must be heavy on player development, which unfortunately we haven't seen much of. And at least one must have great connections in Ohio. The ideal assistant in my mind would be someone like Sonny Johnson, who could really help us mine northeast Ohio with better results than Gareri and MacMurray.


And, since I expect our new coach to be successful, we need ironclad buyout language that would require our new coach, should he leave for a higher level job, to bring his new team to Athens for a game within 3 years. Otherwise, he or his new school would be required to make a $150,000 payment in 3 annual $50,000 installments.
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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 9:38:32 AM 
Interesting thread to pick through

Groce (the guy ever talks about when it comes to success) was not a head coach. All the others including Turgeon and Marshall were.

Not sure about the numbers but I think the book on the current President is going to be painful for Bobcat fans unless the AD has a hat with a rabbit in it.

I'm surprised our AD is still here. I thought he came back to be close to his Dad, who died a while ago, and to get experience in football since the MVC and his background had no history with that sport. If the new PRESIDENT is going to hamstring Athletics it may be time for greener pastures to be retiring from.

Dante is hitting recruiting hard and is, how do the athletes say it, grinding and getting it done. Shrewsbury and Pedon would both be excellent choices My .02

Last Edited: 2/11/2019 9:40:29 AM by longtiimelurker

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 10:14:01 AM 
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:
WittenburgT wrote:
New account here bc old account got messed up...
What about Dante Jackson from Xavier?

-Ohio Guy
-Worked at Ohio with Groce
-Very successful player
-Knows the area
-Young energetic coach which will be a good look for the program
-Has successfully recruited area for NKU, Kent St, Robert Morris, Xavier
-Something we've never had at Ohio
-Would be able to hire a good staff
-Would cost the least amount of money



What makes you think he has been doing any of the heavy lifting in recruiting? I am pretty sure he is Xavier's 3rd assistant coach, not the lead one. Plus they are garbage this year.

Also, how would he be able to hire a good staff? He's 30 years old and has only been above the GA assistant ranks for about 4 years now.

Right now he is way too young and inexperienced to consider. Although, I do like him as an assistant.


Just bring back all the guys...Fuss, Jackson, Offutt, Freeman...


"Puppies, walks in the park, March wins; those are all my favorite things." - Saul Phillips

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 10:19:36 AM 
Someone please provide concrete evidence the new president intends to somehow hamstring athletics.

I'm all for him asking the appropriate questions about how we spend our (or students') money. But I've spoken with him at a football event and he certainly seems on board with having winning programs.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 10:39:01 AM 
greencat wrote:
OK, my turn and yes he's from the south.

Wes Miller at UNC-Greensboro - age 36.

This is his 3rd really good season in a row. Pony up and get the guy.

Buyout $$ will be involved.


I like this type of approach, but I have doubts that anyone is interested in "ponying up" from Schaus and above him.



Twitter: @ou_country

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:10:40 AM 
SBH wrote:
Someone please provide concrete evidence the new president intends to somehow hamstring athletics.

I'm all for him asking the appropriate questions about how we spend our (or students') money. But I've spoken with him at a football event and he certainly seems on board with having winning programs.



Please don't question the assumptions of the BA intelligentsia. Don't you know when certain posters repeat something five times on this board, it becomes a FACT? If you deny such a fact, you'll be accused of sticking your head in the sand and denying reality.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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finnOhio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:22:41 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
SBH wrote:
Someone please provide concrete evidence the new president intends to somehow hamstring athletics.

I'm all for him asking the appropriate questions about how we spend our (or students') money. But I've spoken with him at a football event and he certainly seems on board with having winning programs.



Please don't question the assumptions of the BA intelligentsia. Don't you know when certain posters repeat something five times on this board, it becomes a FACT? If you deny such a fact, you'll be accused of sticking your head in the sand and denying reality.


I had the same thought. Why are we so certain that Nellis is going to cause issues in the recruitment? He knows this is his first big splash as president, and it will telegraph a lot about his vision for the university. What does he want it to say? That's what I'm curious about.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:31:57 AM 
finnOhio wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
SBH wrote:
Someone please provide concrete evidence the new president intends to somehow hamstring athletics.

I'm all for him asking the appropriate questions about how we spend our (or students') money. But I've spoken with him at a football event and he certainly seems on board with having winning programs.



Please don't question the assumptions of the BA intelligentsia. Don't you know when certain posters repeat something five times on this board, it becomes a FACT? If you deny such a fact, you'll be accused of sticking your head in the sand and denying reality.


I had the same thought. Why are we so certain that Nellis is going to cause issues in the recruitment? He knows this is his first big splash as president, and it will telegraph a lot about his vision for the university. What does he want it to say? That's what I'm curious about.


I won't repeat my total personal impressions of Nellis. I'll just say I think his decision on a high-profile coaching hire will reflect the kind of sentiment he's hearing from certain members of the Board of Trustees.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 4:27:43 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
How about Tommy Amaker?


He makes 700k and Harvard is a better job than Ohio.


Interesting comment. Would you say that Penn, Princeton and Yale are better jobs than Ohio also?



I would
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IceCat76
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 7:36:06 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
How about Tommy Amaker?


He makes 700k and Harvard is a better job than Ohio.


Interesting comment. Would you say that Penn, Princeton and Yale are better jobs than Ohio also?



I would


The Harvard job is not better. Very difficult to recruit. Tough academics and no athletic scholarships.
Gym is like a high school. Seats 2,050. Last week they played Ivy League leader and ancient rival Yale and drew 1,500 on Friday night.
No media coverage in Boston. Fourth most watched team in city behind BC, BU and Northeastern.
Itís a no pressure situation. Will always be second fiddle to the hockey team.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 7:50:31 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
How about Tommy Amaker?


He makes 700k and Harvard is a better job than Ohio.


Interesting comment. Would you say that Penn, Princeton and Yale are better jobs than Ohio also?



I would


The Harvard job is not better. Very difficult to recruit. Tough academics and no athletic scholarships.
Gym is like a high school. Seats 2,050. Last week they played Ivy League leader and ancient rival Yale and drew 1,500 on Friday night.
No media coverage in Boston. Fourth most watched team in city behind BC, BU and Northeastern.
Itís a no pressure situation. Will always be second fiddle to the hockey team.


Which market does Ohio University get media coverage in again? Who do you think gets more media eyeballs? The fourth most watched team in Boston, or the only team in Athens, OH?

As for athletic scholarships, how much in tuition do you think the average Harvard basketball player pays? I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with nothing. In fact, Ivy League schools are amongst the most affordable in the country if you can get it; they're so well endowed that students in need basically attend for free.

Let's say you're a mid-major level player and you're getting recruited to Ohio or Harvard. Realistically, you know your odds of playing professionally are slim. And Tommy Amaker sits across from you and says you can play for a team that's won three tournament games in the last few years and then when you graduate you get to choose which investment bank or consulting firm you want to go work for. Oh, and you get a Harvard degree.

And I don't think attendance is that big a deal, honestly. They average 1800 people in a 2200 arena. We average 6,000 in a 13,000 seat arena. Which team feels like they're playing in an empty arena?

Last Edited: 2/11/2019 7:56:55 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 8:27:04 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:


The Harvard job is not better. Very difficult to recruit. Tough academics and no athletic scholarships.
Gym is like a high school. Seats 2,050. Last week they played Ivy League leader and ancient rival Yale and drew 1,500 on Friday night.
No media coverage in Boston. Fourth most watched team in city behind BC, BU and Northeastern.
Itís a no pressure situation. Will always be second fiddle to the hockey team.


Man I disagree. Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. are in great locations, with great pay (better than the MAC) and with what appear to be reasonable expectations. And it feels like they are getting more and recruits who know that long term an Ivy League degree is better than any mid-major success and maybe a few years playing in Europe. No?



Last Edited: 2/11/2019 8:29:17 PM by Ohio69


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 9:21:18 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
IceCat76 wrote:


The Harvard job is not better. Very difficult to recruit. Tough academics and no athletic scholarships.
Gym is like a high school. Seats 2,050. Last week they played Ivy League leader and ancient rival Yale and drew 1,500 on Friday night.
No media coverage in Boston. Fourth most watched team in city behind BC, BU and Northeastern.
Itís a no pressure situation. Will always be second fiddle to the hockey team.


Man I disagree. Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. are in great locations, with great pay (better than the MAC) and with what appear to be reasonable expectations. And it feels like they are getting more and recruits who know that long term an Ivy League degree is better than any mid-major success and maybe a few years playing in Europe. No?





And if you played at Yale this year, your games at Memphis and Miami were on ESPN 3, your game with Cal in China and Harvard were on ESPNU, and your contest with Duke was on ESPN.

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Future Coach
   Posted: 2/11/2019 9:31:20 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
they're so well endowed...


Hehe, giggle giggle.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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