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Topic:  If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...

Topic:  If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/7/2019 9:08:42 PM 
Why are we giving a pass to Player B who could not stay on the floor against NIU and ultimately fouled out?
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/7/2019 10:40:03 PM 
No one is.


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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/7/2019 10:41:25 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
Why are we giving a pass to Player B who could not stay on the floor against NIU and ultimately fouled out?


I'll try "because he doesn't do it nearly every game" for 500 Alex.


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

Twitter: @ou_country

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/7/2019 11:13:33 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
Why are we giving a pass to Player B who could not stay on the floor against NIU and ultimately fouled out?


https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...

From above link:

GraffZ06 wrote:
And while we're complaining - Jason Carter. Oof. Just bad.

Kid still can't figure out how to not foul out against bigger more physical opponents. A carryover from his freshman year sadly (has anybody actually put in work with him on his feet on defense instead of playing with his hands and chest??)

But if you're not going to be able to play defense without fouling - you gotta at least bring it on the offensive side. Something he normally does. Not so much today.




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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/7/2019 11:24:50 PM 
OU_Country wrote:


I'll try "because he doesn't do it nearly every game" for 500 Alex.


People like to dog Doug Taylor for his fouls but Carter is averaging 3 fouls a game as well. It is a problem.
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boydhallbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 7:04:34 AM 
Yeah, I don't understand why he can't play a position he is 3-4" undersized for and not foul.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 8:41:52 AM 
Oh, I didn't realize Jason Carter is fouling all season at a rate that has historically never been seen before in the history of college basketball. My bad.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:59:40 AM 

Per KenPom, fouls committed per 40 minutes:

McMurray - 7.6
James - 6.2
Murrell - 5.0
Taylor - 4.9
Carter - 4.3
Kirk - 3.8
Vander Plas - 3.0
Block - 2.4
Cowart - 2.4
Preston - 0.9
 


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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 11:39:52 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Oh, I didn't realize Jason Carter is fouling all season at a rate that has historically never been seen before in the history of college basketball. My bad.


Get on the ball Andrew. ;-)


Henceforth, you will be known as The Bobcat "Message Board Avenger"

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 4:37:21 PM 
Am I blanking on several games this year in which Carter was in foul trouble? I actually felt like he had been doing a lot better this season with foul management (if that's a term) until Saturday.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 8:57:41 PM 
100%Cat wrote:
Am I blanking on several games this year in which Carter was in foul trouble? I actually felt like he had been doing a lot better this season with foul management (if that's a term) until Saturday.


No you aren't, he has been just fine with foul trouble up until Saturday. Tonight he had exactly 0 fouls. Buckeye Boy here just likes to downplay JC any chance he gets.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:07:49 PM 
JC played a good game tonight. He does reach in a lot and he bails the defense out at times when he gets an offensive rebound and passes it instead of shooting a layup or drawing a foul or when he turns down an open mid range jump shot. JC has tremendous upside. He and TK need to continue to watch video and improve. Tonight, TK had one bad turnover (fancy pass) out of his three, the other two were within the course of the game. Go Cats


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:08:02 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:

No you aren't, he has been just fine with foul trouble up until Saturday. Tonight he had exactly 0 fouls. Buckeye Boy here just likes to downplay JC any chance he gets.


He has fouled out of 2 games this year and has 4 games of 4 fouls. Oh, look who led us in turnovers tonight...

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:13:24 PM 
As Ted posted, he is fouling at a rate of 4.3 for every 40 minutes. After tonight that is down to about 4.0. Completely normal for a big man. It's a non-story. Almost like having 3 turnovers tonight is also a complete non-story.

There are endless negative things to pick apart and focus on with this team and you choose to focus on the best thing we have going for us.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:36:59 PM 
Pretty funny timing for the dueling threads with Carter having 0 fouls but leading the team in turnovers and Kirk limiting his turns (1:1 ratio is still poor).

I do find it out odd for a data/stats guy to blatantly lie about Carter avoiding foul trouble this year prior to the Northern Illinois game. Multiple foul outs and multiple games saddled with 4 fouls.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 10:15:32 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
Pretty funny timing for the dueling threads with Carter having 0 fouls but leading the team in turnovers and Kirk limiting his turns (1:1 ratio is still poor).

I do find it out odd for a data/stats guy to blatantly lie about Carter avoiding foul trouble this year prior to the Northern Illinois game. Multiple foul outs and multiple games saddled with 4 fouls.


https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/player-stat/...
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/8/2019 10:39:09 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
I do find it out odd for a data/stats guy to blatantly lie about Carter avoiding foul trouble this year prior to the Northern Illinois game. Multiple foul outs and multiple games saddled with 4 fouls.


Ha! I didn't lie about anything...Carter has not had an abnormally high or troubling issue with fouls this season. His other foul out he still played his normal full game 30ish minutes. The only other game he has had foul trouble in that held him back was USF in which he did not foul out but was in foul trouble early.

2 games where fouls held down a forward's minutes 14 games into the season is not a story.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/9/2019 8:33:43 AM 
Kirk blowing that 3 on 2 break last night was a thing to behold. Very difficult to do.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/9/2019 9:03:10 AM 
Maddog13 wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
Pretty funny timing for the dueling threads with Carter having 0 fouls but leading the team in turnovers and Kirk limiting his turns (1:1 ratio is still poor).

I do find it out odd for a data/stats guy to blatantly lie about Carter avoiding foul trouble this year prior to the Northern Illinois game. Multiple foul outs and multiple games saddled with 4 fouls.


https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/player-stat/...


That guy from Murray State leads the country in both turnovers and assists (9+ a game). Would like to see him play.

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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/9/2019 11:12:21 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
I do find it out odd for a data/stats guy to blatantly lie about Carter avoiding foul trouble this year prior to the Northern Illinois game. Multiple foul outs and multiple games saddled with 4 fouls.


Ha! I didn't lie about anything...Carter has not had an abnormally high or troubling issue with fouls this season. His other foul out he still played his normal full game 30ish minutes. The only other game he has had foul trouble in that held him back was USF in which he did not foul out but was in foul trouble early.

2 games where fouls held down a forward's minutes 14 games into the season is not a story.


I'm guessing Buck.Cat hasn't watched many games this season, at least not in person. If you're in the arena and not just looking at a stat sheet you'd know that fouling hasn't really been an issue for JC. I'm willing to bet that in the games he had 4 or fouled out there were very late-game or OT fouls that got him to those numbers.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/9/2019 11:58:38 AM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
Why are we giving a pass to Player B who could not stay on the floor against NIU and ultimately fouled out?


Teyvion Kirk is 2nd in the nation in turnovers. Jason Carter isn't even in the top 100 in PF/game. 3 is not an abnormally high number of fouls per game for a forward and a lot of forwards fouls can be attributed to poor guard defensive. We saw this in year one of Saul when we couldn't stop anybody from penetrating.

Maybe that's why.
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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/9/2019 3:50:51 PM 
Ted Thompson wrote:
Per KenPom, fouls committed per 40 minutes:
McMurray - 7.6
James - 6.2
Murrell - 5.0
Taylor - 4.9
Carter - 4.3
Kirk - 3.8
Vander Plas - 3.0
Block - 2.4
Cowart - 2.4
Preston - 0.9


Interesting to compare to 2012. Just a thought out of the blue.
Hall 6.4
Ricardo 6.0
Keely 5.0
Jon 5.0
Goard 5.0
Baltic 3.9
Taylor 3.7
Offut 3.5
Kellogg 2.8
Coop 1.7

Man we fouled a lot that year. Bigs and wings gave a lot of fouls in establishing that defensive intensity that ended up 32nd in kenpom rankings. Carter would be a slacker comparing to the rest of those guys.

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Good cat Good cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/9/2019 8:19:47 PM 
Ugh-too much Kirk. Should be 7th guy off the bench. Needs to pass the ball and shoot better. His free throws are a wreck.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/10/2019 11:44:45 AM 
Good cat Good cat wrote:
Ugh-too much Kirk. Should be 7th guy off the bench. Needs to pass the ball and shoot better. His free throws are a wreck.


If we're being honest here, his shooting form is what is a wreck. No one who has ever taught basketball would teach his shooting form to a youngster. I'd say that needs changed, but you can't do it mid-season. That's a spring time all through summertime fix with daily work.

I will say, in terms of taking care of the ball, he did a much better job against BG than in previous weeks.


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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: If we are going to gang up on Player A about his turnovers...
   Posted: 1/10/2019 1:46:22 PM 
Again, I say, if the rest of the team shot the ball better, Kirk would A. probably have more assists (which require a made basket) b. not feel like he has to do everything offensively, fewer chances, fewer turns.
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