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Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future

Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 3:26:40 PM 

nycbobcat wrote:
Danny Nee. mic drop. 

That thought occurred to me, too.  Afterall, he's one year younger than Frank! wink

 


Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!
Got Saul . . . and dreams of basketball glory!

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 3:34:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

As far as Boals ... I know what I've been told by those close to the circumstances. He's doing a great job at Stony Brook. If Ohio came calling and were able to double his salary, I think he'd have to listen? But I'm not sure that's the route Jim Schaus wants to take. It would be nice to have a coach in Athens that valued defense like Boals. It's certainly something that has been lacking these last five years. And Boals has coached his entire 20+ year career in the general area with the exception of his time at Stony Brook ... so I'd think he would still have those connections and would be able to recruit locally a little stronger than the current staff?


I think the ship's sailed on Boals.

The Ohio job doesn't just have to be substantially better than that the Stoney Brook job to get him to move (and I think there's plenty of question as to whether it is actually better), but it has to be so much better that success at Ohio sets him up for a job that's much better than the one he'd be offered if he's successful at Stoney Brook.

I don't see how that's the case. Our next coach, realistically, is going to need 2-3 years to recruit his own guys and right the ship, so winning in a way that sets somebody up for a big time power conference job is easily 4-6 years off.

Boals is set up much better at Stoney Brook right now than he is at Ohio, and the money alone's not going to be enough to get him to move, most likely. Because he's not comparing Ohio's pay to his current pay, he's comparing it to his next stop. Moving to Ohio would only serve to slow his upward trajectory.

In fact, I think the fact that folks here think Boals would take our job is pretty indicative of how skewed our fanbase can be about what our program is. Yes, we pay well. But that doesn't mean we're an easy place to win or some top tier job that's going to be able to get anybody with just money alone. I mean, if you're Jeff Boals doesn't Saul Phillips' experience serve as a pretty clear warning to you? He was winning at a lower paying gig, and jumped for more money. It backfired.




I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Where I'll differ in regards to Saul ... I just don't think his style was a winning formula for the MAC. It worked in the Summit and at North Dakota St ... but it just hasn't worked in the MAC. The lack of defense and athleticism has limited what they've been able to do.

As far as Boals ... I totally see what you're saying. It would come down to A) the pull of coaching at his alma mater and B) money.

But you are right ... he is on a upward trajectory at Stony Brook that could land him a bigger job sooner than coming to Ohio and putting a 3-5 year run to get things back on track in Athens. And who knows, maybe he's spurned by being passed over the last time Ohio had an opening?


Agreed with you about the alma mater piece. Really hard to quantify how that'll play in. That's the wild-card here. If he loves OU and Athens and sees this as somewhere he'd be content to stay, maybe he's gettable. My guess though is that he's out of reach.

That the names here basically consist of Boals and Pitino underscores just how out of touch our fanbase can be. We went to a Sweet 16 6 years ago. That's great and all, but it means basically nothing now.

Realistically, we should be looking at top assistants at big programs who recruit in similar areas. For me, the next coach should be an Associate Head Coach at a top tier program in the midwest. I'd look at guys like Tom Ostrom who has been Miller's top assistant at both Indiana and Dayton, Ryan Pedon at OSU should be one of the first calls made. Brett Nelson at Marquette seems intriguing. Still young, worked alongside Wojo, previously coached at Ball State. Steve Lutz at Purdue seems green but intriguing. He led recruiting at Creighton prior to joining Purdue. Two very good programs. Also, probably a longshot but Micah Shrewsbury's an NBA assistant who has worked for Stevens and Painter, and was in play at Butler and UMass in the past.

No idea if any of those are realistic, but they have the pedigree I'd like to see.



I might be in the vast minority on this one ... but Geno Ford?

I think Ohio is a better job than Kent in terms of money, facilities, etc. I think he may have learned something by jumping to Bradley thinking the grass would be greener. It didn't work out.

I think he is still pretty beloved in Athens. He has a track record of a good head coach in the MAC ... won two regular season titles and two coach-of-the-year awards.

Wonder if he has interest in becoming a head coach again? I'm guessing he'd be intrigued returning to his alma mater ... close to home (Cambridge) and they probably wouldn't have to play him $700k. He might be someone that would be willing to stay in Ohio and build a longterm winner (something Jim Christian was on track to do and tried to sell the fanbase on ... but understandably jumped at the chance to go home to New England and coach at BC)

I could get behind a Geno Ford hire.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 4:03:19 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

As far as Boals ... I know what I've been told by those close to the circumstances. He's doing a great job at Stony Brook. If Ohio came calling and were able to double his salary, I think he'd have to listen? But I'm not sure that's the route Jim Schaus wants to take. It would be nice to have a coach in Athens that valued defense like Boals. It's certainly something that has been lacking these last five years. And Boals has coached his entire 20+ year career in the general area with the exception of his time at Stony Brook ... so I'd think he would still have those connections and would be able to recruit locally a little stronger than the current staff?


I think the ship's sailed on Boals.

The Ohio job doesn't just have to be substantially better than that the Stoney Brook job to get him to move (and I think there's plenty of question as to whether it is actually better), but it has to be so much better that success at Ohio sets him up for a job that's much better than the one he'd be offered if he's successful at Stoney Brook.

I don't see how that's the case. Our next coach, realistically, is going to need 2-3 years to recruit his own guys and right the ship, so winning in a way that sets somebody up for a big time power conference job is easily 4-6 years off.

Boals is set up much better at Stoney Brook right now than he is at Ohio, and the money alone's not going to be enough to get him to move, most likely. Because he's not comparing Ohio's pay to his current pay, he's comparing it to his next stop. Moving to Ohio would only serve to slow his upward trajectory.

In fact, I think the fact that folks here think Boals would take our job is pretty indicative of how skewed our fanbase can be about what our program is. Yes, we pay well. But that doesn't mean we're an easy place to win or some top tier job that's going to be able to get anybody with just money alone. I mean, if you're Jeff Boals doesn't Saul Phillips' experience serve as a pretty clear warning to you? He was winning at a lower paying gig, and jumped for more money. It backfired.




I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Where I'll differ in regards to Saul ... I just don't think his style was a winning formula for the MAC. It worked in the Summit and at North Dakota St ... but it just hasn't worked in the MAC. The lack of defense and athleticism has limited what they've been able to do.

As far as Boals ... I totally see what you're saying. It would come down to A) the pull of coaching at his alma mater and B) money.

But you are right ... he is on a upward trajectory at Stony Brook that could land him a bigger job sooner than coming to Ohio and putting a 3-5 year run to get things back on track in Athens. And who knows, maybe he's spurned by being passed over the last time Ohio had an opening?


Agreed with you about the alma mater piece. Really hard to quantify how that'll play in. That's the wild-card here. If he loves OU and Athens and sees this as somewhere he'd be content to stay, maybe he's gettable. My guess though is that he's out of reach.

That the names here basically consist of Boals and Pitino underscores just how out of touch our fanbase can be. We went to a Sweet 16 6 years ago. That's great and all, but it means basically nothing now.

Realistically, we should be looking at top assistants at big programs who recruit in similar areas. For me, the next coach should be an Associate Head Coach at a top tier program in the midwest. I'd look at guys like Tom Ostrom who has been Miller's top assistant at both Indiana and Dayton, Ryan Pedon at OSU should be one of the first calls made. Brett Nelson at Marquette seems intriguing. Still young, worked alongside Wojo, previously coached at Ball State. Steve Lutz at Purdue seems green but intriguing. He led recruiting at Creighton prior to joining Purdue. Two very good programs. Also, probably a longshot but Micah Shrewsbury's an NBA assistant who has worked for Stevens and Painter, and was in play at Butler and UMass in the past.

No idea if any of those are realistic, but they have the pedigree I'd like to see.



I might be in the vast minority on this one ... but Geno Ford?

I think Ohio is a better job than Kent in terms of money, facilities, etc. I think he may have learned something by jumping to Bradley thinking the grass would be greener. It didn't work out.

I think he is still pretty beloved in Athens. He has a track record of a good head coach in the MAC ... won two regular season titles and two coach-of-the-year awards.

Wonder if he has interest in becoming a head coach again? I'm guessing he'd be intrigued returning to his alma mater ... close to home (Cambridge) and they probably wouldn't have to play him $700k. He might be someone that would be willing to stay in Ohio and build a longterm winner (something Jim Christian was on track to do and tried to sell the fanbase on ... but understandably jumped at the chance to go home to New England and coach at BC)

I could get behind a Geno Ford hire.


I honestly just don't know a ton about Ford, but he's the guy on that Stoney Brook coaching link that's actually gettable if, for some reason, we've all become enamored with the Stoney Brook basketball program.
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PalmerFest
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 4:20:39 PM 
Thad Matta
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 4:24:32 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I honestly just don't know a ton about Ford, but he's the guy on that Stoney Brook coaching link that's actually gettable if, for some reason, we've all become enamored with the Stoney Brook basketball program.


It's not really enamored with Stony Brook ... for me it's finding a guy that isn't going to necessarily and blatantly use Ohio as a spring board.

I think Groce was kind of that. We all kind of new he wasn't going to be in Athens longterm when they hired him.

But I thought Jim Christian would be. I really did. Totally bought into it and I think he would have built Ohio into a MAC title contender and win consistently in Athens. Unfortunately for Ohio, a dream job scenario opened up back home for him and he had to take it. Can't fault him.

Then I got sold on Saul ... thought he was a long term solution. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out.

I kind of think Geno might be cut from a similar mold in the sense that he has been in the MAC ... had success ... took his lumps when he left ... and would probably attack it with a different vantage point this time around. Instead of trying to win and leave ... he'd maybe be trying to build and win? And to do it at his alma mater might make it more special?

Maybe I'm just into wishful thinking. But it would be nice to build something longterm in the Convo rather than a flash-in-the-pan season where they catch lightning in a bottle.

I lived near Carbondale during SIU's run in the early 2000s when they went to six straight NCAAs and were clicking. It was quite a scene inside the SIU Arena ... had a great fanbase and an awesome atmosphere thanks to success over a period of time. Since then, their program has kind of bottomed out and it a shell of what it once was.

Kind of what we're seeing right now at Ohio. The apathy is the writing on the wall ... the interest is fading faster than Saul can let up another 15-0 run.

I think hiring someone that can come in here with a commitment to building something would be for the best. My gut tells me that Geno Ford might be that guy?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 4:30:17 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
I might be in the vast minority on this one ... but Geno Ford?

I think Ohio is a better job than Kent in terms of money, facilities, etc. I think he may have learned something by jumping to Bradley thinking the grass would be greener. It didn't work out.

I think he is still pretty beloved in Athens. He has a track record of a good head coach in the MAC ... won two regular season titles and two coach-of-the-year awards.

Wonder if he has interest in becoming a head coach again? I'm guessing he'd be intrigued returning to his alma mater ... close to home (Cambridge) and they probably wouldn't have to play him $700k. He might be someone that would be willing to stay in Ohio and build a longterm winner (something Jim Christian was on track to do and tried to sell the fanbase on ... but understandably jumped at the chance to go home to New England and coach at BC)

I could get behind a Geno Ford hire.


I can add one to your minority position. He was a student in one of my wife's classes, and she strongly endorses a Geno hire!


Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!
Got Saul . . . and dreams of basketball glory!

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 5:30:06 PM 
PalmerFest wrote:
Thad Matta


He turned down 15 million over 5 years from Georgia. He is not a realistic target for us.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 5:33:52 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I honestly just don't know a ton about Ford, but he's the guy on that Stoney Brook coaching link that's actually gettable if, for some reason, we've all become enamored with the Stoney Brook basketball program.


It's not really enamored with Stony Brook ... for me it's finding a guy that isn't going to necessarily and blatantly use Ohio as a spring board.

I think Groce was kind of that. We all kind of new he wasn't going to be in Athens longterm when they hired him.

But I thought Jim Christian would be. I really did. Totally bought into it and I think he would have built Ohio into a MAC title contender and win consistently in Athens. Unfortunately for Ohio, a dream job scenario opened up back home for him and he had to take it. Can't fault him.

Then I got sold on Saul ... thought he was a long term solution. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out.

I kind of think Geno might be cut from a similar mold in the sense that he has been in the MAC ... had success ... took his lumps when he left ... and would probably attack it with a different vantage point this time around. Instead of trying to win and leave ... he'd maybe be trying to build and win? And to do it at his alma mater might make it more special?

Maybe I'm just into wishful thinking. But it would be nice to build something longterm in the Convo rather than a flash-in-the-pan season where they catch lightning in a bottle.

I lived near Carbondale during SIU's run in the early 2000s when they went to six straight NCAAs and were clicking. It was quite a scene inside the SIU Arena ... had a great fanbase and an awesome atmosphere thanks to success over a period of time. Since then, their program has kind of bottomed out and it a shell of what it once was.

Kind of what we're seeing right now at Ohio. The apathy is the writing on the wall ... the interest is fading faster than Saul can let up another 15-0 run.

I think hiring someone that can come in here with a commitment to building something would be for the best. My gut tells me that Geno Ford might be that guy?


I'm not sure a long-term hire's the best thing for Ohio. Ultimately, if our coach isn't gettin bigger offers from other schools, it means the results aren't great. The best case scenario for Ohio is that we're seen as a springboard to the Illinois/BCs of the world for young, hungry coaches, and we're the sort of place the cream of the crop want to get their first headcoaching experience.

We're not a destination job for anybody but the people who have run out of options.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 5:35:14 PM 
DinksRecordFreeThrow wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Like most I was rather enthusiastic when Coach Phillips was hired. I have lost that enthusiasm. I have been a season-ticket holder for some years now but missed the game due to unforeseen circumstances Saturday. My goodness how far this program has fallen. It was just 2012 when we won 2 NCAA tournament games starting ZERO seniors. Now here were are. Coach Phillips has had some back luck with injuries, etc. I will concede but 5 years is more than enough to prove yourself. He has had some monumental whiffs in regard to recruiting. Nothing short of winning the MAC tournament will give him a 2nd chance in my book.


Agree completely. But I'll add this- there was absolutely no reason to come in to this season as a lame duck. You either give him a 2 year extension in the offseason or you fire him. There was nothing about what Saul had coming in for this year that was going to change the way he coaches or the make-up of this team. It's not like he signed a dynamic recruiting class or got a big transfer in. Anyone following this team like people on this board do- knew this team would be similar to last year with maybe some different ups and downs. (Plus with Dartis out, and the AD knew this, the team would surely be worse)
So if you liked him enough to keep him through the end of the contract, extend him and let the chips fall... but if you were expecting some sort of miracle run this year so he could save his job, that is just athletic director malpractice. Now the program will be even further behind...


+1,000,000. The A-number-one thing I'm most annoyed about. Regardless of the situation, they're likely eating one year of contract, or ending up in the crapper for a year, probably two. Why prolong it? Some of the angst in these threads ought to be directed towards Schaus. Or, perhaps it's above Schaus' pay grade. Either way, the point is essentially the same.



Twitter: @ou_country

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 5:39:30 PM 
Ted Thompson wrote:
John Brannen


This guy would be a huge get for Ohio if they could swing it and convince him to come. I just doubt that he would. He also might become a flash of success and he's gone type of guy if he did.



Twitter: @ou_country

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 6:13:17 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
DinksRecordFreeThrow wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Like most I was rather enthusiastic when Coach Phillips was hired. I have lost that enthusiasm. I have been a season-ticket holder for some years now but missed the game due to unforeseen circumstances Saturday. My goodness how far this program has fallen. It was just 2012 when we won 2 NCAA tournament games starting ZERO seniors. Now here were are. Coach Phillips has had some back luck with injuries, etc. I will concede but 5 years is more than enough to prove yourself. He has had some monumental whiffs in regard to recruiting. Nothing short of winning the MAC tournament will give him a 2nd chance in my book.


Agree completely. But I'll add this- there was absolutely no reason to come in to this season as a lame duck. You either give him a 2 year extension in the offseason or you fire him. There was nothing about what Saul had coming in for this year that was going to change the way he coaches or the make-up of this team. It's not like he signed a dynamic recruiting class or got a big transfer in. Anyone following this team like people on this board do- knew this team would be similar to last year with maybe some different ups and downs. (Plus with Dartis out, and the AD knew this, the team would surely be worse)
So if you liked him enough to keep him through the end of the contract, extend him and let the chips fall... but if you were expecting some sort of miracle run this year so he could save his job, that is just athletic director malpractice. Now the program will be even further behind...


+1,000,000. The A-number-one thing I'm most annoyed about. Regardless of the situation, they're likely eating one year of contract, or ending up in the crapper for a year, probably two. Why prolong it? Some of the angst in these threads ought to be directed towards Schaus. Or, perhaps it's above Schaus' pay grade. Either way, the point is essentially the same.


Of course the lame duck year is a nightmare, but I'm sure there was no alternative given the cost. The program operates deeply in the red when you subtract student fees, so it would not have been tenable or prudent to pay well over half a million for him not to coach AND go out and finds a better alternative for at least as much. Can you imagine the uproar if this program was paying more than $1 million to two coaches in a single season?
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 8:23:34 PM 
The mistake that Schaus made was to buy a shiny new car from a fast-talking huckster in North Dakota instead of one from a big-city Autoplex with a better pipeline that would benefit us when the time comes to turn in that piece of junk now that that the wheels have fallen off, the paint job has chipped off, and after the third major replacement of key components to the engine. We need a hungry assistant from a big city pipeline, who can bring better talent into Athens, even if this individual already has one foot out the door. Ohio University needs talent, not a brilliant Xs and Os kind of guy, who is small town friendly. We need a recruiter over smarts and a recruiter over loyalty and friendliness. Ohio needs a better pipeline to big-city talent. Period.

We need someone who can identity and better relate to hungry players who have a chip on their shoulders when it comes to being passed over by Big-time programs, and who, in some cases, are tired of sitting on the bench for such big name programs. We need someone who can do more than just talk the talk, but walk the walk. I am sorry folks, but Southeastern Ohio is simply not turning out major droves of basketball talent. We need kids from bigger markets, who are use to playing at a higher level and against better talented and more ruthless competition. We need hungry young men, who want to play now. No more undeveloped projects or future potential. We need players that know how to ball and ball big today, not tomorrow, or three years down the road.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 8:25:48 PM 
Don't count out Coach Phillips and this season yet after one league game. What happens if this team wins 11-12 MAC games and wins twice in Cleveland? Would the AD let him go after 20 plus wins and possibly a few more in the CBI/CIT? Will the university want to pay the next coach $600,000 plus per year?

Last Edited: 1/7/2019 8:28:31 PM by Bobcat1996

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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 8:40:31 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
DinksRecordFreeThrow wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Like most I was rather enthusiastic when Coach Phillips was hired. I have lost that enthusiasm. I have been a season-ticket holder for some years now but missed the game due to unforeseen circumstances Saturday. My goodness how far this program has fallen. It was just 2012 when we won 2 NCAA tournament games starting ZERO seniors. Now here were are. Coach Phillips has had some back luck with injuries, etc. I will concede but 5 years is more than enough to prove yourself. He has had some monumental whiffs in regard to recruiting. Nothing short of winning the MAC tournament will give him a 2nd chance in my book.


Agree completely. But I'll add this- there was absolutely no reason to come in to this season as a lame duck. You either give him a 2 year extension in the offseason or you fire him. There was nothing about what Saul had coming in for this year that was going to change the way he coaches or the make-up of this team. It's not like he signed a dynamic recruiting class or got a big transfer in. Anyone following this team like people on this board do- knew this team would be similar to last year with maybe some different ups and downs. (Plus with Dartis out, and the AD knew this, the team would surely be worse)
So if you liked him enough to keep him through the end of the contract, extend him and let the chips fall... but if you were expecting some sort of miracle run this year so he could save his job, that is just athletic director malpractice. Now the program will be even further behind...


+1,000,000. The A-number-one thing I'm most annoyed about. Regardless of the situation, they're likely eating one year of contract, or ending up in the crapper for a year, probably two. Why prolong it? Some of the angst in these threads ought to be directed towards Schaus. Or, perhaps it's above Schaus' pay grade. Either way, the point is essentially the same.


Of course the lame duck year is a nightmare, but I'm sure there was no alternative given the cost. The program operates deeply in the red when you subtract student fees, so it would not have been tenable or prudent to pay well over half a million for him not to coach AND go out and finds a better alternative for at least as much. Can you imagine the uproar if this program was paying more than $1 million to two coaches in a single season?

And BINGO was his name-o. OHIO Athletics has been asked to reduce reliance on student fees by $1.2MM over the last ten years. There is no money to pay two coach's salaries. End of story, like it or not.


The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC."  Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 8:44:07 PM 
Personally, I have seen enough to convince me that Phillips can't recruit at the level that needs to be recruited to win in the MAC. I would love to be proven wrong, but I don't see any evidence to the contrary in the here and now. The only thing that Phillips seems to be good at is making excuses and convincing people that what everyone is seeing with their own eyes is somehow skewed, and that, given time, the unseen Phoenix will dramatically and successfully rise from the ashes. I know that I am walking on dangerous ground here, but, yes, his majesty has no clothes.
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 8:49:15 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Don't count out Coach Phillips and this season yet after one league game. What happens if this team wins 11-12 MAC games and wins twice in Cleveland? Would the AD let him go after 20 plus wins and possibly a few more in the CBI/CIT? Will the university want to pay the next coach $600,000 plus per year?


This season is not going to play out like this scenario and you know it. Foolish thinking.
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 9:21:24 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

As far as Boals ... I know what I've been told by those close to the circumstances. He's doing a great job at Stony Brook. If Ohio came calling and were able to double his salary, I think he'd have to listen? But I'm not sure that's the route Jim Schaus wants to take. It would be nice to have a coach in Athens that valued defense like Boals. It's certainly something that has been lacking these last five years. And Boals has coached his entire 20+ year career in the general area with the exception of his time at Stony Brook ... so I'd think he would still have those connections and would be able to recruit locally a little stronger than the current staff?


I think the ship's sailed on Boals.

The Ohio job doesn't just have to be substantially better than that the Stoney Brook job to get him to move (and I think there's plenty of question as to whether it is actually better), but it has to be so much better that success at Ohio sets him up for a job that's much better than the one he'd be offered if he's successful at Stoney Brook.

I don't see how that's the case. Our next coach, realistically, is going to need 2-3 years to recruit his own guys and right the ship, so winning in a way that sets somebody up for a big time power conference job is easily 4-6 years off.

Boals is set up much better at Stoney Brook right now than he is at Ohio, and the money alone's not going to be enough to get him to move, most likely. Because he's not comparing Ohio's pay to his current pay, he's comparing it to his next stop. Moving to Ohio would only serve to slow his upward trajectory.

In fact, I think the fact that folks here think Boals would take our job is pretty indicative of how skewed our fanbase can be about what our program is. Yes, we pay well. But that doesn't mean we're an easy place to win or some top tier job that's going to be able to get anybody with just money alone. I mean, if you're Jeff Boals doesn't Saul Phillips' experience serve as a pretty clear warning to you? He was winning at a lower paying gig, and jumped for more money. It backfired.




I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Where I'll differ in regards to Saul ... I just don't think his style was a winning formula for the MAC. It worked in the Summit and at North Dakota St ... but it just hasn't worked in the MAC. The lack of defense and athleticism has limited what they've been able to do.

As far as Boals ... I totally see what you're saying. It would come down to A) the pull of coaching at his alma mater and B) money.

But you are right ... he is on a upward trajectory at Stony Brook that could land him a bigger job sooner than coming to Ohio and putting a 3-5 year run to get things back on track in Athens. And who knows, maybe he's spurned by being passed over the last time Ohio had an opening?


Agreed with you about the alma mater piece. Really hard to quantify how that'll play in. That's the wild-card here. If he loves OU and Athens and sees this as somewhere he'd be content to stay, maybe he's gettable. My guess though is that he's out of reach.

That the names here basically consist of Boals and Pitino underscores just how out of touch our fanbase can be. We went to a Sweet 16 6 years ago. That's great and all, but it means basically nothing now.

Realistically, we should be looking at top assistants at big programs who recruit in similar areas. For me, the next coach should be an Associate Head Coach at a top tier program in the midwest. I'd look at guys like Tom Ostrom who has been Miller's top assistant at both Indiana and Dayton, Ryan Pedon at OSU should be one of the first calls made. Brett Nelson at Marquette seems intriguing. Still young, worked alongside Wojo, previously coached at Ball State. Steve Lutz at Purdue seems green but intriguing. He led recruiting at Creighton prior to joining Purdue. Two very good programs. Also, probably a longshot but Micah Shrewsbury's an NBA assistant who has worked for Stevens and Painter, and was in play at Butler and UMass in the past.

No idea if any of those are realistic, but they have the pedigree I'd like to see.



I might be in the vast minority on this one ... but Geno Ford?

I think Ohio is a better job than Kent in terms of money, facilities, etc. I think he may have learned something by jumping to Bradley thinking the grass would be greener. It didn't work out.

I think he is still pretty beloved in Athens. He has a track record of a good head coach in the MAC ... won two regular season titles and two coach-of-the-year awards.

Wonder if he has interest in becoming a head coach again? I'm guessing he'd be intrigued returning to his alma mater ... close to home (Cambridge) and they probably wouldn't have to play him $700k. He might be someone that would be willing to stay in Ohio and build a longterm winner (something Jim Christian was on track to do and tried to sell the fanbase on ... but understandably jumped at the chance to go home to New England and coach at BC)

I could get behind a Geno Ford hire.


And somewhere in America, Bobcat Love's head just exploded.


The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC."  Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/7/2019 10:22:41 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Don't count out Coach Phillips and this season yet after one league game. What happens if this team wins 11-12 MAC games and wins twice in Cleveland? Would the AD let him go after 20 plus wins and possibly a few more in the CBI/CIT? Will the university want to pay the next coach $600,000 plus per year?


You haven't been watching the rest of the MAC if you think this sad sack team can win a dozen games in the conference this season.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 12:46:20 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Don't count out Coach Phillips and this season yet after one league game. What happens if this team wins 11-12 MAC games and wins twice in Cleveland? Would the AD let him go after 20 plus wins and possibly a few more in the CBI/CIT? Will the university want to pay the next coach $600,000 plus per year?


You haven't been watching the rest of the MAC if you think this sad sack team can win a dozen games in the conference this season.


Fact.

And to follow up previous comment ... school will NOT want to pay next coach $600k per year. That's another reason why they'd let Saul walk even if they stuck gold and won 20 games.

Lame. Duck.
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 7:57:11 AM 
I think Schaus was swayed by Saul's success, young age, and all the buzz around him. This led to his large contract, especially thinking that JC had a buyout clause which also helped justify the salary.
Unfortunately things didn't work out.

Has Solich's success demonstrated another path to consider?





GO BOBCATS
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 8:59:08 AM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
I think Schaus was swayed by Saul's success, young age, and all the buzz around him. This led to his large contract, especially thinking that JC had a buyout clause which also helped justify the salary.
Unfortunately things didn't work out.

Has Solich's success demonstrated another path to consider?

GO BOBCATS


Yep, he's demonstrated a path to consistently being decent and completely irrelevant at a national level.

The Potato Bowl is the equivalent of the CBI. Solich hasn't won any conference championships, which is what's required to get to the tournament in basketball. Not sure he's necessarily the standard we want to follow.

To be clear, he built a strong football program at a school that was consistently a bottom feeder and had won like 60 games in 30 years. Solich has brought huge value to Ohio University and will leave it better than he found it.

But our basketball program's much different than our football program and requires a different approach.

Last Edited: 1/8/2019 9:08:09 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:57:21 AM 
100%Cat wrote:
You can twist the numbers all you want. 5 seasons of MAC experience, 40-42 record. Did he get hot in Cleveland twice? Yep. Were we the best team in the MAC during the season in any of his 4 seasons, or Akron last year? Nope. I get it, some people put a lot more value on NCAA wins than I do. The bottom line is he is a coach who, in 10 completed conference seasons as a head coach has won double digit conference games ONE TIME, finished above .500 just two times, and never finished better than .500 in the Big Ten. That's a whole lot of losses, a whole lot of inconsistency, a whole lot of mediocrity.


Just got the courage/time to stomach this thread and just wanted to say I am with you.

I like Groce and like the rest of you, look back on those 2 March runs as some of the best sports experiences of my life. Which is exactly why people lose their ability to use any reason and logic in any evaluation involving coach Groce.

Nevermind that 2010 was 2 inches away from being a first round exit if not for Tommy Freeman burying a 3 from the corner to force OT at Ball State. Nevermind that 2012 was 2 points away from being a loss in the finals and trip to the CBI. Coach Groce's amazing voodoo March powers willed that desperation 30 footer from DJ to fall as the shot clock expired.

So do these magical March coaches like Groce not try as hard in January? Do they sandbag to set up for March? I honestly do not understand what it even means. Why did we get blown out at Eastern Michigan in February but take UNC to the wire? Because one was led by February Groce and the other was led by March Groce?

Sorry but I prefer long range analysis that takes into account all the available data.


Andrew Ruck

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MedinaCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 10:01:40 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Ted Thompson wrote:
John Brannen


This guy would be a huge get for Ohio if they could swing it and convince him to come. I just doubt that he would. He also might become a flash of success and he's gone type of guy if he did.



Another one that I've love to land, but not certain we could attract.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Fife
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 10:42:29 AM 

Andrew, when I read your last post, a light bulb went off in my head.  I finally understand JG.  It's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Mr. January and Mr. March. Brilliant analysis.

 

Last Edited: 1/8/2019 10:59:51 AM by OhioCatFan


Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!
Got Saul . . . and dreams of basketball glory!

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 12:18:36 PM 
D.A. wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OU_Country wrote:

+1,000,000. The A-number-one thing I'm most annoyed about. Regardless of the situation, they're likely eating one year of contract, or ending up in the crapper for a year, probably two. Why prolong it? Some of the angst in these threads ought to be directed towards Schaus. Or, perhaps it's above Schaus' pay grade. Either way, the point is essentially the same.


Of course the lame duck year is a nightmare, but I'm sure there was no alternative given the cost. The program operates deeply in the red when you subtract student fees, so it would not have been tenable or prudent to pay well over half a million for him not to coach AND go out and finds a better alternative for at least as much. Can you imagine the uproar if this program was paying more than $1 million to two coaches in a single season?


And BINGO was his name-o. OHIO Athletics has been asked to reduce reliance on student fees by $1.2MM over the last ten years. There is no money to pay two coach's salaries. End of story, like it or not.


I'm assuming you're both correct. And, if you are, isn't it fair to say that if Ohio can't afford to fire a 'lame duck' in a situation like this one, that we as fans should be heavily tabling some of our expectations until Ohio CAN afford to do such a thing? Seems pretty naive to expect Groce-like NCAA appearances if you can't fire a coach from a situation like the one we're in the middle of watching to be able to find one who can get restore the program to those expectations.

There was a time when there seemed to be aspirations around here of getting to the next level of mid-major basketball, effectively being what UB is now. If we can't afford to fire a coach in a scenario like this, seems to me those kinds of expectations, or even getting to one tournament every 5 years (talked about by a few here), is just ridiculous to expect.



Twitter: @ou_country

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