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Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future

Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future
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OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 9:28:50 AM 
stub wrote:
Tough situation on Saul. But we're very young, we'll have a team back with experience, a team with potential that we need to keep. But we also need a strong incoming class. So I'd suck it up and give Saul 3 years right now. Happy New Year!


Our problem isn't inexperience. I disagree with most people on this board that we don't have enough talent to win. Saul just refuses to demand that his players play the game the right way. It's been nearly a month since our PG has hit even a 1-2 Assist-to-turnover ratio in a game. Our last two wins are because that same player shot airballs on threes (banking in a 3 is essentially an airball) that we got lucky on. I've seen enough.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 10:12:15 AM 
MedinaCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
I agree with rpbobcat's impression of Nellis. I hope that we are both wrong. Sometimes first impression are correct and at other times they are not. So far though, his unwillingness to embrace a First Amendment policy similar to that of the University of Chicago's is disheartening. He has been presented with it by a member of the journalism faculty and so far he seems not to have the guts to propose it.
Here for the record is Chicago's policy:
https://tinyurl.com/y98qor45
For those who don't want to look at the link, here's the key part: Fundamentally, however, the University is committed to the principle that it may not restrict debate or deliberation because the ideas put forth are thought to be offensive, unwise, immoral, or wrong-headed. It is for the members of the University community to make those judgments for themselves. As a corollary to this commitment, members of the University community must also act in conformity with this principle. Although faculty, students and staff are free to criticize, contest and condemn the yviews expressed on campus, they may not obstruct, disrupt, or otherwise interfere with the freedom of others to express views they reject or even loathe. For members of the University community, as for the University itself, the proper response to ideas they find offensive, unwarranted and dangerous is not interference, obstruction, or suppression. It is, instead, to engage in robust counter-speech that challenges the merits of those ideas and exposes them for what they are. To this end, the University has a solemn responsibility not only to promote a lively and fearless freedom of debate and deliberation, but also to protect that freedom when others attempt to restrict it.
For the record, this policy at Chicago goes way back to the 1930s, when my father was a student at UC. At that time Robert Hutchins, known by the students as the "boy wonder president" because he was only 30 when appointed to that position, was a fierce defender of free speech rights. His ideas were later more fully developed at UC under the auspices of the Hutchins Commission (aka Commission of Freedom of the Press) during World War II.


Hutchins was also at the helm when University of Chicago de-emphasizied athletics and dropped competitive football.

As far as President Nellis goes, Charles Ping was viewed similarly relating to his passion regarding athletics. However, under his watch, we made probably our top 1 or 2 basketball hires in bringing Danny Nee to Athens. Hoping Saul is able to deliver results so we don’t need to evaluate such things for several years.


Go take a look at our conference titles across all sports during the Ping era. You can tell the pre-Ping era and the Ping era based on looking up in the convo and football.....just saying
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 10:13:47 AM 
Fire Phillips and hire Steve Alford immediately!!!
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 10:51:35 AM 
If the Pres is not an athletics supporter that in itself is disconcerting.
On the Saul's contract extension. I say "If Schaus is leaning to extend I say drop his salary by $100k for 1 additional year to see if things improve".
I still don't get the long term contract we gave this guy to begin with. Unless we find a coach like Solich, with that kind of resume, no coach should be given more than a 3-4 year deal. All contracts should have a buyout as well.
With all the underclassmen on board today I doubt that any would leave if Saul is not brought back & I only see 1 commit for next year.
Let's not be fooled with our results from the OOC W-L record. We will know after the 1st 2-3 weeks of conference play just how good we are.
No word on both Gallon and Dartis which is not good.





GO BOBCATS
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 12:34:56 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
If the Pres is not an athletics supporter that in itself is disconcerting.
On the Saul's contract extension. I say "If Schaus is leaning to extend I say drop his salary by $100k for 1 additional year to see if things improve".
I still don't get the long term contract we gave this guy to begin with. Unless we find a coach like Solich, with that kind of resume, no coach should be given more than a 3-4 year deal. All contracts should have a buyout as well.
With all the underclassmen on board today I doubt that any would leave if Saul is not brought back & I only see 1 commit for next year.
Let's not be fooled with our results from the OOC W-L record. We will know after the 1st 2-3 weeks of conference play just how good we are.
No word on both Gallon and Dartis which is not good.





GO BOBCATS


A $100K pay cut? Have you fallen and hit your head? Are you having a Stroke?
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 12:42:27 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

A $100K pay cut? Have you fallen and hit your head? Are you having a Stroke?


That scenario won't happen. Nevertheless, if you're Saul, wouldn't you take it? It's likely either that or go be an assistant somewhere for $100K-$150K tops.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 2:08:42 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

A $100K pay cut? Have you fallen and hit your head? Are you having a Stroke?


That scenario won't happen. Nevertheless, if you're Saul, wouldn't you take it? It's likely either that or go be an assistant somewhere for $100K-$150K tops.


Agreed - there is that angle you'd have to think about if you're him. Option B might be to be Tim Miles assistant at that kind of salary, maybe a bit more.
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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 2:28:49 PM 
Maddog13 wrote:
Fire Phillips and hire Steve Alford immediately!!!



My guess is that Alford may already be in discussions with the Big Ten Network, and maybe ESPN also...

Looking at it from 2000 miles away, I wonder if he has the passion to coach any more...
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 2:34:47 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
If the Pres is not an athletics supporter that in itself is disconcerting.
On the Saul's contract extension. I say "If Schaus is leaning to extend I say drop his salary by $100k for 1 additional year to see if things improve".
I still don't get the long term contract we gave this guy to begin with. Unless we find a coach like Solich, with that kind of resume, no coach should be given more than a 3-4 year deal. All contracts should have a buyout as well.
With all the underclassmen on board today I doubt that any would leave if Saul is not brought back & I only see 1 commit for next year.
Let's not be fooled with our results from the OOC W-L record. We will know after the 1st 2-3 weeks of conference play just how good we are.
No word on both Gallon and Dartis which is not good.



I think 4-5 year deals are kind of the norm in the industry for men's basketball coaches. It's pretty tough to lure the kind of talented coaches we want to see at Ohio if you're not willing to pay for it.

With regard to the players leaving, I'm here to tell you that we have several who would be heavily recruited if they were allowed to have the option to transfer. Whether they would leave or not would probably depend on how good of a sales job the new coach would offer, and also what other schools were pursuing those players. Kirk, Carter and BVP would very likely draw interest from schools at a higher level than Ohio (I'm thinking A10/AAC for example). I'd say a healthy Dartis would too. Other guys might leave to be closer to home given the opportunity.

Saul talked about Dartis and Gollon yesterday in the pregame show, stating they are both getting closer. Not sure what that means in specific timetables though.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 4:55:58 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
If the Pres is not an athletics supporter that in itself is disconcerting.
On the Saul's contract extension. I say "If Schaus is leaning to extend I say drop his salary by $100k for 1 additional year to see if things improve".
I still don't get the long term contract we gave this guy to begin with. Unless we find a coach like Solich, with that kind of resume, no coach should be given more than a 3-4 year deal. All contracts should have a buyout as well.
With all the underclassmen on board today I doubt that any would leave if Saul is not brought back & I only see 1 commit for next year.
Let's not be fooled with our results from the OOC W-L record. We will know after the 1st 2-3 weeks of conference play just how good we are.
No word on both Gallon and Dartis which is not good.





GO BOBCATS


TOS got a seven year deal.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 5:13:01 PM 
Gollon was dressed for the FIU game.
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Cleveburg Bri
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 8:41:03 PM 
O'Shea did not get a 7 year deal. He got an extension after his NCAA year.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 9:00:57 PM 
Cleveburg Bri wrote:
O'Shea did not get a 7 year deal. He got an extension after his NCAA year.


His original contract was a 7 year deal, with an extension after the 2005 NCAA tournament run.

Last Edited: 12/31/2018 9:18:06 PM by BillyTheCat
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Cleveburg Bri
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 9:08:10 PM 
Sorry. I guess I misremembered this.

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/mbkb/spec-rel/031705aac...

Last Edited: 12/31/2018 9:11:36 PM by Cleveburg Bri
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 11:03:46 PM 
brucecuth wrote:
Maddog13 wrote:
Fire Phillips and hire Steve Alford immediately!!!



My guess is that Alford may already be in discussions with the Big Ten Network, and maybe ESPN also...

Looking at it from 2000 miles away, I wonder if he has the passion to coach any more...


Verified. He loves coaching. I could live the rest of my life on the buyout but he is like a lot of coaches I know...like moths to a flame. Top Ten recruiting classes, loves being in the gym, loves the preparation. His dad is still pretty involved over here....not coaching....but not far from hoops.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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The Better Ohio Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/31/2018 11:31:03 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
Crazy idea just to throw gasoline on this fire: Bring back Groce.

You're telling me that, for a slight upgrade in salary from what he's getting at Akron, he wouldn't at least entertain it? Imagine we could even get some boosters to help augment that salary (as we had in place before he went to Illinois).

It's about as out-of-the-box as you can get. But I feel like, given the current state of the program (and our university administration), we need to get unorthodox. It's a move that wouldn't be unprecedented in college sports. Utah State just made a similar move to bring back Gary Andersen for their football program. Although, granted, they weren't stealing him away from a conference rival.


I absolutely love Groce and would love to see this happen but there is zero chance it actually does.
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Bobcat61
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/1/2019 12:47:30 AM 
Alford NO No
His only pashion is Steve Alford
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/1/2019 11:45:29 AM 
MedinaCat wrote:


Hutchins was also at the helm when University of Chicago de-emphasizied athletics and dropped competitive football.

As far as President Nellis goes, Charles Ping was viewed similarly relating to his passion regarding athletics. However, under his watch, we made probably our top 1 or 2 basketball hires in bringing Danny Nee to Athens. Hoping Saul is able to deliver results so we don’t need to evaluate such things for several years.


Correct about Hutchins' dropping the football program and dropping out of the Big Ten athletically. However, it is logically possible to support both freedom speech and football. They are not mutual exclusive options! ;-)

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/1/2019 12:29:07 PM 
Cleveburg Bri wrote:
Sorry. I guess I misremembered this.

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/mbkb/spec-rel/031705aac...


Yep - original deal was for 7 and the extension gave him two more. His original deal at Bryant was even better - 8 years.

Last Edited: 1/1/2019 12:31:35 PM by Alan Swank
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/1/2019 1:43:10 PM 
Interesting. So the moral of the story here is we should have less "TOS to" threads and more "TOS' agent to" threads.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/1/2019 10:01:55 PM 
As I see it, we shouldn’t be paying our coach any more than 250-350k tops. We can be deluded into thinking that if we just pay more and get the right coach that we can propel ourselves to the next level. It takes way more than that to break from who we are in the MAC and what that means. It happens everywhere, not just here.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/1/2019 10:35:44 PM 
giacomo wrote:
As I see it, we shouldn’t be paying our coach any more than 250-350k tops. We can be deluded into thinking that if we just pay more and get the right coach that we can propel ourselves to the next level. It takes way more than that to break from who we are in the MAC and what that means. It happens everywhere, not just here.


The idea advertised here about going with paying the MAC minimum because the dynamics that limit OU's ability to compete I would think would apply more to football where the edge goes to programs in the talent centers like cities in Florida and then you have this G5 thing which sets the MAC at a different level. In MAC basketball Buffalo invested and its paid off for them so I don't see why OU can't especially with a facility like The Convo and proximity to the conference tournament in Cleveland where the fanbase can deliver support. Saul himself came from an outpost D1 in NDSU to be at a place with a better situation.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/2/2019 1:19:38 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
giacomo wrote:
As I see it, we shouldn’t be paying our coach any more than 250-350k tops. We can be deluded into thinking that if we just pay more and get the right coach that we can propel ourselves to the next level. It takes way more than that to break from who we are in the MAC and what that means. It happens everywhere, not just here.


The idea advertised here about going with paying the MAC minimum because the dynamics that limit OU's ability to compete I would think would apply more to football where the edge goes to programs in the talent centers like cities in Florida and then you have this G5 thing which sets the MAC at a different level. In MAC basketball Buffalo invested and its paid off for them so I don't see why OU can't especially with a facility like The Convo and proximity to the conference tournament in Cleveland where the fanbase can deliver support. Saul himself came from an outpost D1 in NDSU to be at a place with a better situation.


I agree - sometime if you pay the minimum, you get that in return. Keeping pace with UB budget-wise is probably necessary to get back towards the top with UB.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/2/2019 1:28:39 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
giacomo wrote:
As I see it, we shouldn’t be paying our coach any more than 250-350k tops. We can be deluded into thinking that if we just pay more and get the right coach that we can propel ourselves to the next level. It takes way more than that to break from who we are in the MAC and what that means. It happens everywhere, not just here.


The idea advertised here about going with paying the MAC minimum because the dynamics that limit OU's ability to compete I would think would apply more to football where the edge goes to programs in the talent centers like cities in Florida and then you have this G5 thing which sets the MAC at a different level. In MAC basketball Buffalo invested and its paid off for them so I don't see why OU can't especially with a facility like The Convo and proximity to the conference tournament in Cleveland where the fanbase can deliver support. Saul himself came from an outpost D1 in NDSU to be at a place with a better situation.


I agree - sometime if you pay the minimum, you get that in return. Keeping pace with UB budget-wise is probably necessary to get back towards the top with UB.


Miami went with giacomo's business model and they went from the program to be envied to a bottom dweller across the board and still haven't fully recovered. It has been proven time and time again in college basketball that you get what you pay for. You can find anecdotal evidence to prove just about anything but there is vast amounts of evidence to show that winning in college basketball directly corresponds to dollars spent on the program.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/2/2019 3:33:17 PM 
OUVan wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
giacomo wrote:
As I see it, we shouldn’t be paying our coach any more than 250-350k tops. We can be deluded into thinking that if we just pay more and get the right coach that we can propel ourselves to the next level. It takes way more than that to break from who we are in the MAC and what that means. It happens everywhere, not just here.


The idea advertised here about going with paying the MAC minimum because the dynamics that limit OU's ability to compete I would think would apply more to football where the edge goes to programs in the talent centers like cities in Florida and then you have this G5 thing which sets the MAC at a different level. In MAC basketball Buffalo invested and its paid off for them so I don't see why OU can't especially with a facility like The Convo and proximity to the conference tournament in Cleveland where the fanbase can deliver support. Saul himself came from an outpost D1 in NDSU to be at a place with a better situation.


I agree - sometime if you pay the minimum, you get that in return. Keeping pace with UB budget-wise is probably necessary to get back towards the top with UB.


Miami went with giacomo's business model and they went from the program to be envied to a bottom dweller across the board and still haven't fully recovered. It has been proven time and time again in college basketball that you get what you pay for. You can find anecdotal evidence to prove just about anything but there is vast amounts of evidence to show that winning in college basketball directly corresponds to dollars spent on the program.


I totally agree - I'm not sure Ohio "needs" to continue to pay a head coach 550k, as in they could pay 475k or something like that and probably still do fine. But significantly decreasing investment will likely see a corresponding decrease in results over the long haul.

If you want exceptions to the rule, follow Mark Adams of ESPN and his #DoMoreWithLess campaign. Lots of one off examples, but the rule of thumb is that big spenders get better games, including more home games, better facilities, which often leads to better recruiting.
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