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Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future

Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/29/2019 9:54:56 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
Yeah, I know this isn't the most reasonable idea, but look at Memphis with Penny Hardaway. He didn't have much coaching experience, now he is getting big-time recruits coming to his alma mater. Would having Gary Trent back in Athens help bring recruits to the campus? Would it create a buzz around the school?


Personally, I question that. How many people in and around OU younger than 30 years old even know who Gary Trent is? Or along the same line of thinking, Geno Ford or Jeff Boals? Maybe it reinvigorates older fans and alumni in their 40's and older, but anyone younger than that, unless they're a basketball/OU sports die-hard, those folks probably don't even know who those guys are, or what their significance is. If you don't sell the history of the program game in, and game out, those great old players are of no significance to the current batch of students. I'd even bet you that more than 50% of freshmen and sophomores don't even know who DJ Cooper is.


+1

No offense, if you were gonna go the name recognition way with people under 35, getting Aaron Craft to coach would resonate with OU kids more than Gary Trent or even DJ Cooper. Sorry to sound harsh, but it doesn't matter who you throw in that slot until they start winning. Simple as that.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/29/2019 1:58:04 PM 
And considering our Sr. Associate AD just moved onto Kansas, I am not overly surprised that he did, which confirms what I've heard that our AD and him have been shopping for the last couple years heavier than Purdue.

Last Edited: 1/29/2019 1:58:29 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/29/2019 5:49:22 PM 
A friend I served on board with would often say, when the discussion gets like this thread has, "with so much back and forth, there ought to be an orgasm".
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/29/2019 8:56:26 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
And considering our Sr. Associate AD just moved onto Kansas, I am not overly surprised that he did, which confirms what I've heard that our AD and him have been shopping for the last couple years heavier than Purdue.


Good riddance. Another Carpetbagger bites the dust.
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FlashGary
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/6/2019 12:37:51 AM 
Wow! I started this thread a long time ago and boy, did it ever take off! Gotta admit I was wrong. Doesn't appear that coach Phillips is going to get it done. I do believe he can coach. His downfall has been caused by the inability to recruit elite MAC-level or higher athletic players, which many other teams in the conference have been able to do on a yearly basis.

That's the area where I'm most surprised and disappointed. I remember listening to coach Phillip after he signed, and in talking about the campus, the Convo, the atmosphere, and the program, he said, "I can sell this." I believed him. So I'm stunned that he hasn't been able to keep pace with previous Ohio coaches and other coaches in the conference in that regard.

Basketball has changed in recent years. A game that used to be played from the inside out is now played greatly on the perimeter with most teams looking to use the three-point shot as a scoreboard wrecking ball.

This team has been severely crippled from the start by the lack of perimeter shooting. Hard to understand how they didn't bring in one or two wing players with certified three-point shots, especially knowing Jordan Dartis and James Gollon wouldn't be able to start the season due to surgeries. It's reached the point where Jason Carter has to literally get the ball out on the floor and beat his man off the dribble to the basket in order to score. That shouldn't have to be a necessity.

Gotta recruit better than what it's been to stick around, right? And the hoop recruiting woes is magnified by the football team's rise in recruiting, which is reflected in the consistent series of bowl appearances.

Last Edited: 2/6/2019 12:45:38 AM by FlashGary

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/6/2019 6:36:20 AM 
I've seen several posts,on this and other threads, talking about coach Phillips having issues with recruiting,in part because he's from way outside Ohio.

Forgive me,because I don't remember,did TOS have similar problems,being from the east coast.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/6/2019 6:43:27 AM 
I believe TOS had a pipeline to the basketball recruiting hotbed of Minnesota.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/6/2019 10:55:38 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
I believe TOS had a pipeline to the basketball recruiting hotbed of Minnesota.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/200405_Ohio_Bobcats_men%27...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/200506_Ohio_Bobcats_men%27...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/200708_Ohio_Bobcats_men%27...

Last Edited: 2/6/2019 10:58:47 AM by Alan Swank

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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/6/2019 12:15:04 PM 
Groce OhioHS recruits that produced Bobcat multi-year minutes: Reg Keely, Nick Kellogg, Stevie Taylor, transfer Jon Smith.

Phillips OhioHS recruits: Doug Taylor, Jordan Dartis, Carter and TBD Mason McMurray.

IMO Ohio didn't produce much of a pipeline for either coaches--it was the out-of-staters that put the touches on Groce's teams that exceed SP's.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/6/2019 2:34:24 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Groce OhioHS recruits that produced Bobcat multi-year minutes: Reg Keely, Nick Kellogg, Stevie Taylor, transfer Jon Smith.

Phillips OhioHS recruits: Doug Taylor, Jordan Dartis, Carter and TBD Mason McMurray.

IMO Ohio didn't produce much of a pipeline for either coaches--it was the out-of-staters that put the touches on Groce's teams that exceed SP's.


Looking at the TOS roster from 2004-05...only 3 total guys from Ohio on the roster and I think 2 that made major contributions? Though I can't remember if one of the McGowans got much run that year or the year after when Harbut left. So call it one, Mychal Green, the lone soldier. And even he was a JUCO right?



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OrlandoCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/9/2019 9:55:54 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
So call it one, Mychal Green, the lone soldier. And even he was a JUCO right?


Yes, Green was a JUCO, and probably my favorite Bobcat on that team. I swear at times it felt like he couldnt miss.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 10:43:22 AM 
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...

Last Edited: 2/11/2019 10:46:46 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:06:06 AM 
FearLeon wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...


I applaud Pete for being willing to go there, and give kudos to Jason and Ben for answering the uncomfortable question. At this point, it has to have an effect of some kind. The person I'd like to see anyone start questioning on this topic is Schaus, and why he allowed it to happen.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:22:50 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...


I applaud Pete for being willing to go there, and give kudos to Jason and Ben for answering the uncomfortable question. At this point, it has to have an effect of some kind. The person I'd like to see anyone start questioning on this topic is Schaus, and why he allowed it to happen.


$$$$$$$$$
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:27:11 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...


I applaud Pete for being willing to go there, and give kudos to Jason and Ben for answering the uncomfortable question. At this point, it has to have an effect of some kind. The person I'd like to see anyone start questioning on this topic is Schaus, and why he allowed it to happen.


$$$$$$$$$


I don't disagree with you. I'd just like to see his feet put to the fire a little by those who cover the team. Never hurts them to ask the questions. Maybe eventually he'll answer them.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:27:50 AM 
One quote from The Post article:

"Miami coach Jack Owens said Phillips just had bad luck in Athens. Its true. Even this season, hes without his two best shooters. Owens said he thinks Phillips is one of the most respected coaches in the conference and in the country."

If we let him go, are we going to look back on this ten years from now and think we made a big mistake when Saul's Winthrop Eagles are in the Final Four?

Also, in terms of bad luck, a friend of mine emailed me this morning, and wondered to what extent his wife's breast cancer might have affected his recruiting that year.

I can't help but wonder how these last two games would have gone if Gollon hadn't gotten re-injured.

Last Edited: 2/11/2019 11:28:49 AM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:38:31 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...


I applaud Pete for being willing to go there, and give kudos to Jason and Ben for answering the uncomfortable question. At this point, it has to have an effect of some kind. The person I'd like to see anyone start questioning on this topic is Schaus, and why he allowed it to happen.


$$$$$$$$$


I don't disagree with you. I'd just like to see his feet put to the fire a little by those who cover the team. Never hurts them to ask the questions. Maybe eventually he'll answer them.


Arkley's non-coverage of this topic all season has been very disappointing. He's the one closest to the team. As I've said a few times, yes Saul isn't going to talk. But you can certainly ask the players about it. You can try and get Schaus (but he won't talk either) or others in the athletic department. How about talking to a coach who has been through this lame duck scenario before and it doesn't have to be a basketball coach. Heck, It doesn't even have to be a former Ohio coach. How about take the temperature of the fans at a home game and ask their opinion if Saul should stay or should he go? There are a million ways to cover this story and still be professional about it. You can't be scared of having the head coach mad at you. It's your job to cover the team and this is the biggest story of the year involving Ohio basketball in 2018-2019.

Last Edited: 2/11/2019 12:49:09 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 11:55:51 AM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...


I applaud Pete for being willing to go there, and give kudos to Jason and Ben for answering the uncomfortable question. At this point, it has to have an effect of some kind. The person I'd like to see anyone start questioning on this topic is Schaus, and why he allowed it to happen.


$$$$$$$$$


I don't disagree with you. I'd just like to see his feet put to the fire a little by those who cover the team. Never hurts them to ask the questions. Maybe eventually he'll answer them.


Arkley's non-coverage of this topic all season has been very disappointing. He's the one closest to the team. As I've said a few times, yes Saul isn't going to talk. But you can certainly ask the players about it. You can try and get Schaus (but he won't talk either) or others in the athletic department. How about talking to a coach who has been through this lame duck scenario before and it doesn't have to be a basketball coach. Heck, It doesn't even have to be a former Ohio coach. How about take the temperature of the fans at a home game and ask their opinion if Saul should stay or should he go? There are a million way to cover this story and still be professional about it. You can't be scared of having the head coach mad at you. It's your job to cover the team and this is the biggest story of the year involving Ohio basketball in 2018-2019.


Along those lines didn't BG go through a lame-duck not too long ago? Or Buffalo with Witherspoon?



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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 4:19:17 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
One quote from The Post article:

"Miami coach Jack Owens said Phillips just had bad luck in Athens. Its true. Even this season, hes without his two best shooters. Owens said he thinks Phillips is one of the most respected coaches in the conference and in the country."

If we let him go, are we going to look back on this ten years from now and think we made a big mistake when Saul's Winthrop Eagles are in the Final Four?

Also, in terms of bad luck, a friend of mine emailed me this morning, and wondered to what extent his wife's breast cancer might have affected his recruiting that year.

I can't help but wonder how these last two games would have gone if Gollon hadn't gotten re-injured.


I meant to bring this up in another thread, and can't remember whether I did or not, but it goes back to the kids we're recruiting. Too many are injury prone or were hurt in high school. Taylor, Dartis, Laster, Gallon, MacMurray, Carter. With the exception of Laster and possibly Dartis, the others all suffered injuries that caused them to miss a year in HS, or injuries diagnosed in Athens were caused by issues predating their coming to Ohio. Bad luck? Possibly. But sometimes you make your own luck. That's why new staff will have to do a better job of recruiting physical, athletic players and evaluating their health.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/11/2019 6:37:50 PM 
brucecuth wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
One quote from The Post article:

"Miami coach Jack Owens said Phillips just had bad luck in Athens. Its true. Even this season, hes without his two best shooters. Owens said he thinks Phillips is one of the most respected coaches in the conference and in the country."

If we let him go, are we going to look back on this ten years from now and think we made a big mistake when Saul's Winthrop Eagles are in the Final Four?

Also, in terms of bad luck, a friend of mine emailed me this morning, and wondered to what extent his wife's breast cancer might have affected his recruiting that year.

I can't help but wonder how these last two games would have gone if Gollon hadn't gotten re-injured.


I meant to bring this up in another thread, and can't remember whether I did or not, but it goes back to the kids we're recruiting. Too many are injury prone or were hurt in high school. Taylor, Dartis, Laster, Gallon, MacMurray, Carter. With the exception of Laster and possibly Dartis, the others all suffered injuries that caused them to miss a year in HS, or injuries diagnosed in Athens were caused by issues predating their coming to Ohio. Bad luck? Possibly. But sometimes you make your own luck. That's why new staff will have to do a better job of recruiting physical, athletic players and evaluating their health.


Whether they were injured in high school has nothing to do with whether they'll be injured again in college. You can't predict that stuff. I agree you can look for bigger and more athletic players, but to think you're going to be able to predict James Gollon tearing an Achilles is ridiculous. Some stuff just happens, and lately there is some kind of curse that's moved over from the football team to the basketball team.



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left lane, hammer down
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/12/2019 12:11:42 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
One quote from The Post article:

"Miami coach Jack Owens said Phillips just had bad luck in Athens. Its true. Even this season, hes without his two best shooters. Owens said he thinks Phillips is one of the most respected coaches in the conference and in the country."

If we let him go, are we going to look back on this ten years from now and think we made a big mistake when Saul's Winthrop Eagles are in the Final Four?

Also, in terms of bad luck, a friend of mine emailed me this morning, and wondered to what extent his wife's breast cancer might have affected his recruiting that year.

I can't help but wonder how these last two games would have gone if Gollon hadn't gotten re-injured.


I agree. I have never seen more "bad luck" / injuries in any Div. 1 teams over this many years. That I will tell you his wifes cancer affected his recruiting. My wifes cancer and her fighting it took ALL of my time and attention. ( She beat it / different type than Nicole had. )
With that said what should be done?? I have been to all the home games, coaches shows and such. I really believe Saul can coach, if he has the sum of all the parts he recruited.

We let him go. Hire a ??? , upcoming asst., former player ?? Or do we double down on him ?? Offer him another 5 year contract, not near as lucrative. A contract a couple of 100K less with performance incentives.

If we do the new hire , looking at transfers and 2 -3 years of rebuilding.

Or we can take a chance that Saul can get health bodies that can take us where we want to go??


My money is on keeping Saul I really do believe he can take us to the top if the players can stay healthy .


I also believe I will be beaten badly by folks that hate Saul and have never been to a game in the last few years. So "FLAME On" folks that have never been in the Convo for the last 5 years or to a Coach's show.
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left lane, hammer down
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/12/2019 12:21:49 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember one article from Arkley this season where he really dives into Saul and how his contract situation is affecting the team. I give the POST student writer credit for at least going there.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/02/ohio-mens-b...


I applaud Pete for being willing to go there, and give kudos to Jason and Ben for answering the uncomfortable question. At this point, it has to have an effect of some kind. The person I'd like to see anyone start questioning on this topic is Schaus, and why he allowed it to happen.


$$$$$$$$$


I don't disagree with you. I'd just like to see his feet put to the fire a little by those who cover the team. Never hurts them to ask the questions. Maybe eventually he'll answer them.



I as applaud Pete for "going there". Also think Arkley needs to in the "pressers", or a one on one, with Schaus go there also. I have no idea how we can recruit with ZERO idea on who the coach is next year??
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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/12/2019 8:39:09 AM 
ESPN weighs in:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25...


Ohio-The State University

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/12/2019 8:48:53 AM 
Arkley has fallen into the trap of becoming a de facto employee of the institution/program he's supposed to be covering.

He's a good writer, but there's a reason he's still stuck in Athens, Ohio, after all these years. Too comfortable being a PR guy for his coaching friends.

As to whether we owe it to Saul to see what he can do with healthy talent, it's not that easy. Schaus can't afford to let fan interest and ticket revenue crater even further heading into next season. This will ultimately be a financial decision - too much risk in investing multiple additional years (because we can't just renew him for one year) at $550k only to see the same old, same old.

Last Edited: 2/12/2019 8:52:38 AM by SBH

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 2/12/2019 9:01:20 AM 
left lane, hammer down wrote:

If we do the new hire , looking at transfers and 2 -3 years of rebuilding.

Or we can take a chance that Saul can get health bodies that can take us where we want to go??


My money is on keeping Saul I really do believe he can take us to the top if the players can stay healthy .


I also believe I will be beaten badly by folks that hate Saul and have never been to a game in the last few years. So "FLAME On" folks that have never been in the Convo for the last 5 years or to a Coach's show.


He's gone. Let it go. We're in rebuild mode regardless of who's coaching. And stop with "Saul haters" straw man. He's incredibly likable and very few people on here have been personally critical of him. He hasn't gotten it done professionally and a lot of us hate the results. Saul was hired to a huge contract with matching expectations that he failed to meet. He's a good man and I would be happy to see him succeed elsewhere, but his time left in Athens is measurable in weeks.
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