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Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future

Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 3:07:59 PM 
FearLeon wrote:


I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul



What are you suggesting we do? Do we have to stomp around like a three year old having a tantrum? Saul can clearly be a good coach under the right circumstances because, well, he already was one. He hit the magic combination, whatever that is, at his previous job. He hasn't been successful here but he has represented the school well and I'm going to guess he will land on his feet just fine. I just don't get the ire you have for the man just because he hasn't met your expectations. I think it's interesting that the reasons he failed here IMO are very similar to the reason the man he replaced failed at Illinois. I'll be rooting for him at his next stop just like I root for all the coaches that we've had since 1978.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 3:31:52 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:

First, I don't think he's truly torpedoed it. I think the expectation was higher than reality, and injuries followed by misses on recruiting and transfers derailed the whole thing. Imagine if you will, that Tony Campbell doesn't miss the second half of the year. Chances are strong this team ends up playing for and winning a MAC title. Imagine Jaaron makes a different decision and stays, while Jason Carter and Ben Vander Plas aren't hurt for a whole season. That changes the whole trajectory of where we are now, and might even change where we are now in terms of recruiting. And it surely changes the narrative of threads like this one.


I wasn't suggesting Saul torpedo'd things intentionally. But the ifs, ands and buts mean nothing really. The program is where it is. Nothing can really change that right now. And whether it's fair or not, Saul is in change so he falls on that sword. Yes, things haven't gone his way ... and a bounce or two different and we might not be having these conversations. But things did happen ... and the program wasn't able to handle it. So this is where we're at. Whether that is 100% Saul's fault or not is really insignificant. Things are a mess and it's time to fix it before it gets any worse.

OU_Country wrote:
Second, I don't get the parallel with Groce/Christian, and Hurley/Oats, solely because there wasn't continuity with Ohio and they never missed at beat at UB. While it might have been better than the current year, I don't think Christian would have held the program as high as 2011-2013. He wasn't the recruiter that John was at that time.


The parallel wasn't identical to UB in the sense there was a continuity from within the program. It was more of a continuity of successful MAC coaches. Groce had proven in his four years what he could do in the league ... like Hurley (despite his non-success in NCAAs). I thought transitioning from Groce to Christian would continue that MAC success and bring forth more NCAA bids over the course of the Christian era. It didn't last long enough for us to find out.

OU_Country wrote:
Re: Amaker, Cluess, etc: The questions I have are some of the same ones you mention as it compares to Ohio:
-Budgets?
-Facilities - particularly practice facilities?
-What keeps the coaches there? How often have their assistants changed?
-What about their academic standards? (Harvard goes without saying)
-What type of players are they recruiting? What is the recruiting budget?
-What is their paycheck?
-What things do they do that isn't happening at Ohio? (besides turning over coaches every 3-5 years.)

Also worthy of note: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.


There is certainly something to the football angle. I honestly didn't pick up on that when I was compiling those thoughts.

In the same breath, I think Ohio has shown a financial commitment to both football and basketball that puts them at or towards the top of the MAC. I'm not sure if that will change with a new president. I guess we'll find out when they hire a new hoops coach. I think that will give us all a glimpse into the future of Ohio athletics. Schaus/Ohio will have to replace their football coach in the next few years as well. Will they continue to keep up this kind of financial commitment to those programs?

If they do, there is no reason why basketball cannot sustain a successful program that consistently earns MAC tourney byes and plays into the weekend each year in Cleveland. Akron found a way to do that with Dambrot ... and did it with a D1 football program (in name only, ha!)

Regardless ... I'm not suggesting Ohio can turn into a Top 25 hoops program. But I think, with the current financial backing in place, they can be a consistent top three MAC program with the right coach. I really, really thought Jim Christian was that guy based off his MAC track record. Saul obviously didn't get the job done. I think there's a guy out there ... Ohio just needs to find them.

OU_Country wrote:
So again, I'd be curious to see how many C-USA, MAC, Mountain West, or Sun Belt schools that manage both? I'm betting the list is very, very small. And I think the D1 vs non-D1 football issue when comparing mid-major basketball programs has some bearing on the situations.


One that comes to mind is San Diego State. In the last decade, 9 straight bowl games ... 7 NCAA bids during that time. 3 football league titles ... 5 basketball regular season titles. They've been pretty good at both.

Nevada hasn't been bad either ... 11 bowl games since 2005 and 11 basketball postseasons since then. Not a lot of league titles ... but still pretty good success.

Boise has 11 bowl games since 2008 ... and 7 basketball postseason (3 NCAAs)

But your point is taken ... it isn't easy at the G5 level to sustain success at both. But Ohio had it during the Solich & Groce/Christian era ... and I don't think it's unrealistic to think then can't get back to that.



Good point on the MWC teams. I do think they're in a completely different financial world than the MAC, merely because they're mostly in metro areas where sponsor deals, Media/TV deals, etc probably allow for a lot more revenue to work with. But that's just off the cuff educated guessing.

And I'm not suggesting that equally committing to football detracts from basketball necessarily. DA provided good data about the finances related to ESPN, etc. My gut feeling still is that it does, but I really don't have data to put behind that. If it didn't make any difference, we wouldn't see all those examples you cite of mid-major successes without D1 football that at least *seem* greater than MAC schools. Some of it is conference affiliation, Media markets maybe, but some of it might simply be the focus of the community. Take Dayton or Butler as examples. No local D1 college football means that those are the primary focuses of the community AND the media which isn't insignificant. How significant I really don't know, and that's just my speculation.

Lastly, I 100% agree that the way the next 3-6 months are handled will provide that glimpse into what the future might look like. I'm certainly a little apprehensive about it, but at the end of it all, I'll still be in Peden in early September, and The Convo in early November.



Twitter: @ou_country

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BobcatPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 3:57:25 PM 
I agree with those who think it's time for "Saul Ball" to haul on out of Athens. I didn't read through the 12 pages of this thread, and I'd be stunned if my preference's name hasn't been mentioned more than once as a replacement.

It seems to me that in a league with a very large number of its teams in Ohio, playing most of its games every year in Ohio, the next Bobcats coach must be able to recruit Ohio very well. Of course, you're probably not going to get the kids that are OSU, Cincinnati, or Xavier bound (although Groce did OK there - think Caris LaVert before he transferred to Michigan when Groce left), but you HAVE to win a good amount of that next tier of players from Ohio. I would guess the ease of parents to attend their sons' games does probably help in recruiting.

Saul hasn't been able to recruit Ohio nearly as well as I think he needed to (know that Jason Carter had other deep-rooted reasons to be attracted to OHIO other than just the coach). I don't see that dynamic ever improving.

There is really only one guy that comes to my mind as the coach OHIO should go hard after at the end of this season, and that is Jeff Boals.

His stints as an assistant at Akron and OSU mean he has the relationships with Ohio coaches to get those recruits to come to Athens, just like Groce did. Boals would be coming back to his home state and his alma mater, so maybe he'd want to stay a bit and try to build a legacy of sorts. He currently makes a little more that $250K a year, so OHIO could almost double his income.

Those are my thoughts on the situation. I welcome your critiques.

Last Edited: 1/9/2019 3:58:31 PM by BobcatPride

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 4:07:09 PM 
BobcatPride wrote:
I agree with those who think it's time for "Saul Ball" to haul on out of Athens. I didn't read through the 12 pages of this thread, and I'd be stunned if my preference's name hasn't been mentioned more than once as a replacement.

It seems to me that in a league with a very large number of its teams in Ohio, playing most of its games every year in Ohio, the next Bobcats coach must be able to recruit Ohio very well. Of course, you're probably not going to get the kids that are OSU, Cincinnati, or Xavier bound (although Groce did OK there - think Caris LaVert before he transferred to Michigan when Groce left), but you HAVE to win a good amount of that next tier of players from Ohio. I would guess the ease of parents to attend their sons' games does probably help in recruiting.

Saul hasn't been able to recruit Ohio nearly as well as I think he needed to (know that Jason Carter had other deep-rooted reasons to be attracted to OHIO other than just the coach). I don't see that dynamic ever improving.

There is really only one guy that comes to my mind as the coach OHIO should go hard after at the end of this season, and that is Jeff Boals.

His stints as an assistant at Akron and OSU mean he has the relationships with Ohio coaches to get those recruits to come to Athens, just like Groce did. Boals would be coming back to his home state and his alma mater, so maybe he'd want to stay a bit and try to build a legacy of sorts. He currently makes a little more that $250K a year, so OHIO could almost double his income.

Those are my thoughts on the situation. I welcome your critiques.


Ironically I blame him for the downfall of OSU. He got hellbent on recruiting nationally when Matta was hurting physically and had to trust his assistants to assess talent. The one time he did go back in-state he made it political favors to Garfield Heights and Dunbar and that accelerated the firing of Matta.
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BobcatPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 4:15:27 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
BobcatPride wrote:
I agree with those who think it's time for "Saul Ball" to haul on out of Athens. I didn't read through the 12 pages of this thread, and I'd be stunned if my preference's name hasn't been mentioned more than once as a replacement.

It seems to me that in a league with a very large number of its teams in Ohio, playing most of its games every year in Ohio, the next Bobcats coach must be able to recruit Ohio very well. Of course, you're probably not going to get the kids that are OSU, Cincinnati, or Xavier bound (although Groce did OK there - think Caris LaVert before he transferred to Michigan when Groce left), but you HAVE to win a good amount of that next tier of players from Ohio. I would guess the ease of parents to attend their sons' games does probably help in recruiting.

Saul hasn't been able to recruit Ohio nearly as well as I think he needed to (know that Jason Carter had other deep-rooted reasons to be attracted to OHIO other than just the coach). I don't see that dynamic ever improving.

There is really only one guy that comes to my mind as the coach OHIO should go hard after at the end of this season, and that is Jeff Boals.

His stints as an assistant at Akron and OSU mean he has the relationships with Ohio coaches to get those recruits to come to Athens, just like Groce did. Boals would be coming back to his home state and his alma mater, so maybe he'd want to stay a bit and try to build a legacy of sorts. He currently makes a little more that $250K a year, so OHIO could almost double his income.

Those are my thoughts on the situation. I welcome your critiques.


Ironically I blame him for the downfall of OSU. He got hellbent on recruiting nationally when Matta was hurting physically and had to trust his assistants to assess talent. The one time he did go back in-state he made it political favors to Garfield Heights and Dunbar and that accelerated the firing of Matta.


When using the word "he", I assume you're referring to Matta, as OSU was Matta's program at the time. Matta would have been responsible for the Buckeyes' recruiting focus (national vs. in-state). And I have no knowledge of what you're referring to regarding Matta's leaving OSU. Are you able to elaborate?

Last Edited: 1/9/2019 4:16:43 PM by BobcatPride

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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 4:39:31 PM 
I read it as "he" being Boals. But then, reading and comprehension is an art and I am not too awfully artistic.

In my eyes, Matta's downfall started when he lost Groce. Groce was one indefagitable recruiter who could go into a ghetto or an affluent suburb and promise a parent he would get their kid what they needed and deliver. After he left they still landed Turner, Deibler, Mullins, Koufos, Buford and Thomas that Groce had worked on recruiting from the 04-07 summer seasons but they never restored the recruiting with his coaching replacements. The Cage, Posey, Oden, Conley, Cook line of players stopped when Groce left. In agreement with Boals having Ohio ties and coaching circles but do not think he helped restock the shelves much. They did have a good class with Sibert and the guys who came in with DeShaun Thomas but were unable to keep reloading. I am not sure Boals is the next hot coach for Ohio. The recruiting game is changing and connections now more than ever seem to be the key.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 4:42:50 PM 
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 4:47:00 PM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
I read it as "he" being Boals. But then, reading and comprehension is an art and I am not too awfully artistic.

In my eyes, Matta's downfall started when he lost Groce. Groce was one indefagitable recruiter who could go into a ghetto or an affluent suburb and promise a parent he would get their kid what they needed and deliver. After he left they still landed Turner, Deibler, Mullins, Koufos, Buford and Thomas that Groce had worked on recruiting from the 04-07 summer seasons but they never restored the recruiting with his coaching replacements. The Cage, Posey, Oden, Conley, Cook line of players stopped when Groce left. In agreement with Boals having Ohio ties and coaching circles but do not think he helped restock the shelves much. They did have a good class with Sibert and the guys who came in with DeShaun Thomas but were unable to keep reloading. I am not sure Boals is the next hot coach for Ohio. The recruiting game is changing and connections now more than ever seem to be the key.


After Groce, they had recruiting classes ranked 3rd and 6th nationally under Matta. That includes the number two ranked player in the country in Jared Sullinger.

I know Groce is a folk hero around here and all, but let's not get out of control here.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 4:47:57 PM 
greencat wrote:
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------



This makes the exact opposite point you think it makes.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 5:01:07 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------



This makes the exact opposite point you think it makes.


It blows out of the water a point that a bunch of mostly currently unranked schools that play basketball to varying degrees of results have some sort of advantage in hoops by not being a football factory like places that have D-1 football stadiums of over 100,000 capacity. Tennessee had yet another losing season in football while their basketball team is in the top-5 today. Their decades long obsession with d-1 SEC football didn't prevent it. Having post players built like football players are why they are currently a basketball power. Having post players built like Olive Oyl won't get you far in today's D-1 hoops world.

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 5:20:05 PM 
BobcatPride wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
BobcatPride wrote:
I agree with those who think it's time for "Saul Ball" to haul on out of Athens. I didn't read through the 12 pages of this thread, and I'd be stunned if my preference's name hasn't been mentioned more than once as a replacement.

It seems to me that in a league with a very large number of its teams in Ohio, playing most of its games every year in Ohio, the next Bobcats coach must be able to recruit Ohio very well. Of course, you're probably not going to get the kids that are OSU, Cincinnati, or Xavier bound (although Groce did OK there - think Caris LaVert before he transferred to Michigan when Groce left), but you HAVE to win a good amount of that next tier of players from Ohio. I would guess the ease of parents to attend their sons' games does probably help in recruiting.

Saul hasn't been able to recruit Ohio nearly as well as I think he needed to (know that Jason Carter had other deep-rooted reasons to be attracted to OHIO other than just the coach). I don't see that dynamic ever improving.

There is really only one guy that comes to my mind as the coach OHIO should go hard after at the end of this season, and that is Jeff Boals.

His stints as an assistant at Akron and OSU mean he has the relationships with Ohio coaches to get those recruits to come to Athens, just like Groce did. Boals would be coming back to his home state and his alma mater, so maybe he'd want to stay a bit and try to build a legacy of sorts. He currently makes a little more that $250K a year, so OHIO could almost double his income.

Those are my thoughts on the situation. I welcome your critiques.


Ironically I blame him for the downfall of OSU. He got hellbent on recruiting nationally when Matta was hurting physically and had to trust his assistants to assess talent. The one time he did go back in-state he made it political favors to Garfield Heights and Dunbar and that accelerated the firing of Matta.


When using the word "he", I assume you're referring to Matta, as OSU was Matta's program at the time. Matta would have been responsible for the Buckeyes' recruiting focus (national vs. in-state). And I have no knowledge of what you're referring to regarding Matta's leaving OSU. Are you able to elaborate?


No I'm referring to Boals. He shouldered a lot of the load on recruiting when Matta couldn't travel as much and it showed painfully when Matta couldn't recruit as aggressively as Matta once did.

Those guys that dudded in the 2011 class I pin on Boals. It was star chasing and then got further sent down the tanks with the likes of David Bell and Co. Just classes that sunk OSU like no other. In addition, from what I heard in my time is that Boals did interview at OU but was not well-liked from the process the first time around. Again, stories I've heard but you can take em as you want.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 5:27:34 PM 
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------



This makes the exact opposite point you think it makes.


It blows out of the water a point that a bunch of mostly currently unranked schools that play basketball to varying degrees of results have some sort of advantage in hoops by not being a football factory like places that have D-1 football stadiums of over 100,000 capacity. Tennessee had yet another losing season in football while their basketball team is in the top-5 today. Their decades long obsession with d-1 SEC football didn't prevent it. Having post players built like football players are why they are currently a basketball power. Having post players built like Olive Oyl won't get you far in today's D-1 hoops world.



You're right, it does blow out of the water a point nobody here made.

The point being made is about how mid-majors with limited athletic budgets allocate said budget.

That a bunch of huge programs in big conferences with giant budgets, boosters and tv deals isn't at all relevant to the discussion.


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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 5:55:37 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------



This makes the exact opposite point you think it makes.


It blows out of the water a point that a bunch of mostly currently unranked schools that play basketball to varying degrees of results have some sort of advantage in hoops by not being a football factory like places that have D-1 football stadiums of over 100,000 capacity. Tennessee had yet another losing season in football while their basketball team is in the top-5 today. Their decades long obsession with d-1 SEC football didn't prevent it. Having post players built like football players are why they are currently a basketball power. Having post players built like Olive Oyl won't get you far in today's D-1 hoops world.



You're right, it does blow out of the water a point nobody here made.

The point being made is about how mid-majors with limited athletic budgets allocate said budget.

That a bunch of huge programs in big conferences with giant budgets, boosters and tv deals isn't at all relevant to the discussion.




That was exactly the point I was trying to make - that all of the successful mid-majors bshott was using as an example in his post, exactly none of them played D1 football. I still feel like that plays a roll, but as noted somewhere earlier in this thread, I don't have data to back it. DA has data to argue that football helps the finances in the MAC, which is fine. Flip side, other than Houston (?) all of the teams greencat mentions are in mega-money conferences, where financial resources really aren't much of an issue as compared to the MAC, MWC, Sunbelt, and some of the AAC schools.



Twitter: @ou_country

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 7:12:00 PM 
As long as we are talking new coaches, I'll throw one in the ring and we dont even have to leave the Convo to find him...


"Puppies, walks in the park, March wins; those are all my favorite things." - Saul Phillips

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 8:33:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
PalmerFest wrote:
Thad Matta


He turned down 15 million over 5 years from Georgia. He is not a realistic target for us.


Throw in a rhinoplasty.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 11:03:58 PM 
greencat wrote:
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------



So, itís simple, drop football, upgrade the Convo and we will be on the National stage like Gonzaga.
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 11:07:47 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
In addition, from what I heard in my time is that Boals did interview at OU but was not well-liked from the process the first time around. Again, stories I've heard but you can take em as you want.


I have heard the same and believe it to be true. As long as Schaus is the AD (which may not be too much longer - think retirement, not firing), Boals stands about 0% chance to be our next head coach.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 8:19:47 AM 
OUVan wrote:
FearLeon wrote:


I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul



What are you suggesting we do? Do we have to stomp around like a three year old having a tantrum? Saul can clearly be a good coach under the right circumstances because, well, he already was one. He hit the magic combination, whatever that is, at his previous job. He hasn't been successful here but he has represented the school well and I'm going to guess he will land on his feet just fine. I just don't get the ire you have for the man just because he hasn't met your expectations. I think it's interesting that the reasons he failed here IMO are very similar to the reason the man he replaced failed at Illinois. I'll be rooting for him at his next stop just like I root for all the coaches that we've had since 1978.


This, x1000000000000000000.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 9:21:44 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
greencat wrote:
quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
----------------------------------------------------

Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

-----------------------------------------------------



So, itís simple, drop football, upgrade the Convo and we will be on the National stage like Gonzaga.


I think the point being made is more: the deck's stacked against us, so temper your expectations. We pretty much are what we are indefinitely without a change.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 10:42:59 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Good point on the MWC teams. I do think they're in a completely different financial world than the MAC, merely because they're mostly in metro areas where sponsor deals, Media/TV deals, etc probably allow for a lot more revenue to work with. But that's just off the cuff educated guessing.


You're right about MWC and MAC. They are two totally different worlds. One of the reasons I thought San Diego St would beat Ohio in the bowl game. I think the MWC is definitely a step up vs. the MAC.

Hoops proof ... MWC has been a multi-bid league in NCAA tourney every year but twice since 2002. 65 NCAA games ... 21 wins. On the other hand, during that same time period the MAC has been a multi-bid league 0 times and has played only 25 games, winning 8.

And yes .... location probably plays a role. The MWC list of Reno, Las Vegas, Boise, San Diego, Albuquerque, Fresno and San Jose carries a little more clout than Akron, Oxford, Athens, Dekalb, Buffalo, Kalamazoo and Ypsilanti.

OU_Country wrote:
And I'm not suggesting that equally committing to football detracts from basketball necessarily. DA provided good data about the finances related to ESPN, etc. My gut feeling still is that it does, but I really don't have data to put behind that. If it didn't make any difference, we wouldn't see all those examples you cite of mid-major successes without D1 football that at least *seem* greater than MAC schools. Some of it is conference affiliation, Media markets maybe, but some of it might simply be the focus of the community. Take Dayton or Butler as examples. No local D1 college football means that those are the primary focuses of the community AND the media which isn't insignificant. How significant I really don't know, and that's just my speculation.


I go back to the 2009-10 thru 2012-13 era for Ohio football/basketball. Might be the best the school has seen the last 50 years if not ever.

Ohio hoops ... 2 NCAAs ... 3 NCAA wins ... CIT & NIT appearance ... two MAC tourney titles ... 1 MAC regular season title.

Ohio football ... 4 straight bowls (two wins) ... 2 MAC title games (missed a third thx to season-ending loss to Kent) ... nationally ranked once ... 36-18 overall record

Head coaches: Frank Solich & John Groce/Jim Christian (one-year)

That's why I think it can still happen at Ohio. It's finding the right coach that is willing to come here and stay. Solich has done that. Saul was supposed to do that ... it just didn't work. I think finding a guy willing to commit rather than use Ohio as a stepping stone is the better option. Ohio can be the best football/basketball program in the MAC. I really think that. It's not like we're BG who hasn't been to the NCAAs in 30+ years or is on their 4th football coach in 6 years.

OU_Country wrote:
I'm certainly a little apprehensive about it, but at the end of it all, I'll still be in Peden in early September, and The Convo in early November.


Ditto. I'm afraid we may have witnessed the apex of Ohio athletics around 2012. I'm not sure the financial commitment will continue across the board like it is now. I really hope I'm wrong, but I think the new president might have different view. We might be entering into an era where success isn't going to be the norm at the level we'd like ... it might be a few/far between deal. Kind of a lightning in the bottle ... a magical run every 10 years? I truly hope I'm wrong.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 11:58:06 AM 
/\/\/\ Your last point, bshott, is what makes me apprehensive. As much as I've defended him, and as much as I like them as people, I feel like Saul's time needs to end from the angle of "it's just time". That said, there's also a "be careful what you wish for" angle. It could get a lot worse before it gets better. Or, I guess maybe it could get a lot better really quickly if the right hire is made to be able to retain enough current players/recruits so that there is still a roster of 11-12 decent players.



Twitter: @ou_country

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 12:49:11 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
. It could get a lot worse before it gets better. Or, I guess maybe it could get a lot better really quickly if the right hire is made to be able to retain enough current players/recruits so that there is still a roster of 11-12 decent players.


While I knew this change was inevitable 18 months ago when many did not want to listen, I also know that a quick fix is probably not going to happen. The talent on the current roster simply is not there and everyone knows it. The new coach is going to have to have some rope to get his pieces in place. Just like Saul was given rope.....five years of rope. And I'll say the same thing about the new coach as I've been preaching about Saul. No Ohio basketball coach should ever go five years without sniffing the MAC Championship game and NCAA Tournament. If you can't accomplish that in the first five years, you're gone. But folks we have a roster of multiple players who should be on D2 rosters. Unfortunately, this is a total rebuild for the next coach.


Last Edited: 1/10/2019 12:50:26 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT
#1-1/2MonthsMACTournamentChampionshipOrBust #ForSaulBall

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 1:03:19 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
While I knew this change was inevitable 18 months ago when many did not want to listen, I also know that a quick fix is probably not going to happen. The talent on the current roster simply is not there and everyone knows it. The new coach is going to have to have some rope to get his pieces in place. Just like Saul was given rope.....five years of rope. And I'll say the same thing about the new coach as I've been preaching about Saul. No Ohio basketball coach should ever go five years without sniffing the MAC Championship game and NCAA Tournament. If you can't accomplish that in the first five years, you're gone. But folks we have a roster of multiple players who should be on D2 rosters. Unfortunately, this is a total rebuild for the next coach.


This is, to me, the least talented Ohio roster I can remember. Even during the infamous Hunter "wilderness campaign", we had Sanjay Adell and Diante Flenorl as young guys that had the look of future quality players.

I have a number of family members that are Marietta College graduates, and follow them and the OAC quite closely. Marietta is current #10 in D3 and I've been to several games this year. I'm confident in saying that the majority of our roster wouldn't even be guaranteed starters for the top teams in that conference.

A question to consider: If they had a MAC "expansion draft" tomorrow, and you were starting a new MAC program, which (if any) of our players would you draft to compete in this league? At this point, the only one I probably consider is Carter.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 1:08:32 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
. It could get a lot worse before it gets better. Or, I guess maybe it could get a lot better really quickly if the right hire is made to be able to retain enough current players/recruits so that there is still a roster of 11-12 decent players.


While I knew this change was inevitable 18 months ago when many did not want to listen, I also know that a quick fix is probably not going to happen. The talent on the current roster simply is not there and everyone knows it. The new coach is going to have to have some rope to get his pieces in place. Just like Saul was given rope.....five years of rope. And I'll say the same thing about the new coach as I've been preaching about Saul. No Ohio basketball coach should ever go five years without sniffing the MAC Championship game and NCAA Tournament. If you can't accomplish that in the first five years, you're gone. But folks we have a roster of multiple players who should be on D2 rosters. Unfortunately, this is a total rebuild for the next coach.



I agree with most of what you're saying regarding the current compilation of players, and the future.

BUT in 2017, I'm afraid they did literally sniff the MAC Championship game. Should have been there in fact, and without the reigning MAC player of the year to boot. And they were the 2 seed without him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_MAC_Men%27s_Basketball...


In 2016 too, Ohio was playing Friday for a shot at going to the MAC Championship as the 2 seed, and lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_MAC_Men%27s_Basketball...

So while I agree that 2015, 2018, 2019 of the five years have been disappointments, I'd say being the #2 seed and being in the MAC Semi's two years in a row is pretty much the very definition of "sniffing the MAC Championship game". One of those two years was by a single possession, and it most definitely is in fact the definition of "sniffing the MAC Championship game."

It's easy to call all five years a disaster when last year, and the one we're in have in fact been a mess, but those two years Ohio was right there and just fell short.



Twitter: @ou_country

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/10/2019 3:39:08 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
. It could get a lot worse before it gets better. Or, I guess maybe it could get a lot better really quickly if the right hire is made to be able to retain enough current players/recruits so that there is still a roster of 11-12 decent players.


While I knew this change was inevitable 18 months ago when many did not want to listen, I also know that a quick fix is probably not going to happen. The talent on the current roster simply is not there and everyone knows it. The new coach is going to have to have some rope to get his pieces in place. Just like Saul was given rope.....five years of rope. And I'll say the same thing about the new coach as I've been preaching about Saul. No Ohio basketball coach should ever go five years without sniffing the MAC Championship game and NCAA Tournament. If you can't accomplish that in the first five years, you're gone. But folks we have a roster of multiple players who should be on D2 rosters. Unfortunately, this is a total rebuild for the next coach.



I agree with most of what you're saying regarding the current compilation of players, and the future.

BUT in 2017, I'm afraid they did literally sniff the MAC Championship game. Should have been there in fact, and without the reigning MAC player of the year to boot. And they were the 2 seed without him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_MAC_Men%27s_Basketball...


In 2016 too, Ohio was playing Friday for a shot at going to the MAC Championship as the 2 seed, and lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_MAC_Men%27s_Basketball...

So while I agree that 2015, 2018, 2019 of the five years have been disappointments, I'd say being the #2 seed and being in the MAC Semi's two years in a row is pretty much the very definition of "sniffing the MAC Championship game". One of those two years was by a single possession, and it most definitely is in fact the definition of "sniffing the MAC Championship game."

It's easy to call all five years a disaster when last year, and the one we're in have in fact been a mess, but those two years Ohio was right there and just fell short.


Agree on the assessments of 2016 & 2017 ... but I think what takes away from those "THISclose" years are the fact the other three have been so far in the other direction.

A pair of #2 seeds sandwiched by an #11 and #10 seed and who knows what cherry-on-top this year will bring? #12?
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