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Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future

Topic:  RE: Coach Phillips' future
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bobcat28
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: United States
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:07:01 PM 
I don't think Saul even cares anymore. No fire, minimal in game coaching, just pacing the sidelines looking down at his knock off out of style hospital sneakers. He is just taking a paycheck at this point.
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OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
Post Count: 6,133

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:07:54 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Now 0-2 in MAC play and staring at 0-5. Our program is not even on par right now with the likes of Northern Illinois, Miami and Bowling Green. Did you think 5 years ago that this would ever be possible? For those of you who follow the program seriously and don't think the #SaulBall era has been anything but an epic failure, I just don't know what to say anymore. This goes well beyond success in March. We are now a team struggling to get out of the bottom of the MAC. That's what happens when you recruit a handful of guys who should be suiting up for Wisconsin Stevens-Point and Ohleone CC. We quit in the last 23 seconds against Northern Illinois and now lose by 19 points to Bowling Green. This is a complete embarrassment and can't end soon enough.


If firing Saul tomorrow gets you to stop posting the exact same thing in two threads, I'll pitch in towards his buyout.


LOL. Not only that, but it's the same thing on repeat thread after thread, week after week. Complete with fun hashtags!

I'll bet in a couple years he's complaining about the next coach, whoever it is, before the start of his third season because they didn't get an NCAA bid yet.



Twitter: @ou_country

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Reuben
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:23:07 PM 
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.
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FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 1,453

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:25:38 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Now 0-2 in MAC play and staring at 0-5. Our program is not even on par right now with the likes of Northern Illinois, Miami and Bowling Green. Did you think 5 years ago that this would ever be possible? For those of you who follow the program seriously and don't think the #SaulBall era has been anything but an epic failure, I just don't know what to say anymore. This goes well beyond success in March. We are now a team struggling to get out of the bottom of the MAC. That's what happens when you recruit a handful of guys who should be suiting up for Wisconsin Stevens-Point and Ohleone CC. We quit in the last 23 seconds against Northern Illinois and now lose by 19 points to Bowling Green. This is a complete embarrassment and can't end soon enough.


If firing Saul tomorrow gets you to stop posting the exact same thing in two threads, I'll pitch in towards his buyout.


LOL. Not only that, but it's the same thing on repeat thread after thread, week after week. Complete with fun hashtags!

I'll bet in a couple years he's complaining about the next coach, whoever it is, before the start of his third season because they didn't get an NCAA bid yet.


I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT
#1-1/2MonthsMACTournamentChampionshipOrBust #ForSaulBall

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Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 2,817

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:28:51 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Now 0-2 in MAC play and staring at 0-5. Our program is not even on par right now with the likes of Northern Illinois, Miami and Bowling Green. Did you think 5 years ago that this would ever be possible? For those of you who follow the program seriously and don't think the #SaulBall era has been anything but an epic failure, I just don't know what to say anymore. This goes well beyond success in March. We are now a team struggling to get out of the bottom of the MAC. That's what happens when you recruit a handful of guys who should be suiting up for Wisconsin Stevens-Point and Ohleone CC. We quit in the last 23 seconds against Northern Illinois and now lose by 19 points to Bowling Green. This is a complete embarrassment and can't end soon enough.


If firing Saul tomorrow gets you to stop posting the exact same thing in two threads, I'll pitch in towards his buyout.


LOL. Not only that, but it's the same thing on repeat thread after thread, week after week. Complete with fun hashtags!

I'll bet in a couple years he's complaining about the next coach, whoever it is, before the start of his third season because they didn't get an NCAA bid yet.


I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul



Where in this did anyone apologize for or even defend Saul? They pointed out how completely insufferably repetitive and classless you have been about this for over a year now. Nothing more nothing less.


Andrew Ruck

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lovebobcat
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Member Since: 12/23/2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 354

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:29:42 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
There was a time when there seemed to be aspirations around here of getting to the next level of mid-major basketball, effectively being what UB is now. If we can't afford to fire a coach in a scenario like this, seems to me those kinds of expectations, or even getting to one tournament every 5 years (talked about by a few here), is just ridiculous to expect.


Yeah ... those expectations probably peaked in 2013 right after the Sweet 16 run. I thought Christian would be able to sustain that success and continue to build off it. We'll never know.

But Saul has come in and not only derailed that path ... he's torpedo'd it to the point that we can no longer even recognize it. Ohio basketball is light years worse off now than it was 7 years ago.

Do I think Ohio can restore themselves to what UB is now? Sure. Is the right guy in place? Absolutely not.

But the reason UB is there is because they built off what Bobby Hurley built (John Groce) and have continued to build with the next guy up, Nate Oates (Jim Christian).

Ohio missed that chance when Christian took a job back home for a ton of money.

That started the turbulence. Saul was unable to calm the airways and things have only gotten worse.

If Nate Oates departs ... chances are UB is going to slip back closer to the pack in the MAC.

I used SIU as an example earlier .... and it's obviously on the optimistic side. But they went Bruce Weber, Matt Painter (1 year) to Chris Lowery. All three won big there but things started to go south on Lowery and SIU's program has never been able to rebound.

It's tough at the mid-major level when you have a revolving door at coach. Buffalo is enjoying the kind of run many of us were expecting with Groce/Christian ... but we got shortchanged.

It's back to the drawing board. But I think hiring someone that is only planning on being here for 2-3 years is going to leave us right back here again in a few years. There has to be some sustainability if Ohio is going to become a real player in the mid-major world. A program like Ohio can only sustain so much turnover before you reach a breaking point.

If you look at some of the consistently strong mid-major programs over the years that have had sustained (realistic) success they've had coaches who came in and built something more than a flash in the pan.

Wichita, Butler and Gonzaga is not what Ohio should aspire to be. It's not realistic. They don't have the money to do that.

St. Mary's is obviously a step above ... but what Randy Bennett has done there is impressive. 19th year ... 6 NCAA appearances ... 3 wins. Not bad.

Ben Jacobson at Northern Iowa has been good. 13th year ... 4 NCAA appearances and 2 MVC regular season titles. They've also had a few years where they've been around 18-13. And they have four NCAA tourney wins and a Sweet 16 berth to remember.

Tommy Amaker at Harvard ... 12th year ... 4 NCAA tourneys ... 6 Ivy Titles. 2 NCAA wins.

Tim Cluess at Iona ... 9th year ... 5 NCAA tourneys ... 3 MAAC regular season titles

Bob McKillop at Davidson ... 30th year ... 9 NCAA tourneys ... 1 Elite Eight run ... 10+ regular season titles

Phil Martelli at St Joes ... 24th year ... 7 NCAA tourneys ... 7 NCAA wins ... 1 Elite Eight ... 4 regular season titles

Rick Byrd at Belmont ... 23rd year in D1 ... 7 NCAA tourneys ... around 10 regular season titles.

I know schools like St. Joe's, Davidson, St. Mary's all have a bigger budget than Ohio.

And I'm not suggesting Ohio can immediately jump to this level. I'm just using these schools to support my opinion that Ohio should go the route of hiring someone that is committed to building something that is more than a 2-3 year House of Cards.

All these schools have experienced some tough years ... some sub-.500 years ... but they've also bounced back to experience more high level success.

I don't think it's unrealistic for Ohio to find someone that can come into Athens and really build a program that wins a few regular season titles and makes the NCAA tournament more than once a decade. We found a football coach who was willing to hang around for 14+ years. You don't think we can do the same and find a basketball coach willing to do something similar?


What's frustrating is that Saul was supposed to be that guy. At his introductory press conference, he all but guaranteed he'd be staying at least a decade -- talking about his little girl, and how she'd be graduating from Athens High School.

I'm not sure what the ultimate answer is, but I'm willing to take the Groce route again: hot young coach who might leave after big NCAA Tournament success. I'd take an NCAA Tourney once in a while over 18-14 every year and no sniff at NCAA/NITs.

The only good thing about the way this season is looking is there will be none of that Larry Hunter 19-11 should-he-stay-or-should-he-go drama. This looks like a .500 season at best.

Saul has had bad breaks, but five years is plenty. Time for the lovely parting gifts. Let's go get a new coach.
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:30:30 PM 
FearLeon wrote:

I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul


Come on dude, OU basketball is more than Saul and the team. It's about pregaming at Jackie O's up the hill, a story I'm sure that the Saulcoholic will repeat to us all in a future thread.
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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:37:20 PM 
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


A small nitpick: His contract is five years at $550,000 a year.

Jim Christian made $425,000, for what it's worth.

Both were the highest-paid MAC coaches at the time of the contracts. I think it's fair to say that yes, both the AD and the fans expect more from Ohio basketball. Time will tell if that remains true.
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OU_Country
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Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:41:12 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Now 0-2 in MAC play and staring at 0-5. Our program is not even on par right now with the likes of Northern Illinois, Miami and Bowling Green. Did you think 5 years ago that this would ever be possible? For those of you who follow the program seriously and don't think the #SaulBall era has been anything but an epic failure, I just don't know what to say anymore. This goes well beyond success in March. We are now a team struggling to get out of the bottom of the MAC. That's what happens when you recruit a handful of guys who should be suiting up for Wisconsin Stevens-Point and Ohleone CC. We quit in the last 23 seconds against Northern Illinois and now lose by 19 points to Bowling Green. This is a complete embarrassment and can't end soon enough.


If firing Saul tomorrow gets you to stop posting the exact same thing in two threads, I'll pitch in towards his buyout.


LOL. Not only that, but it's the same thing on repeat thread after thread, week after week. Complete with fun hashtags!

I'll bet in a couple years he's complaining about the next coach, whoever it is, before the start of his third season because they didn't get an NCAA bid yet.


I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul



If you continue to think I'm apologizing for Saul, I can't help you. Because of you've read anything I've said in the last month, I'm not on board with where this train is going. I ranted on about it halfway home from the game Saturday. I just choose to not throw the same tantrums with matching hashtags week after week.

You could choose not to post for a month, and we'd be certain to know that you literally hate Saul and where the program stands since he's been here. That horse is dead, beaten, back from the grave, and beaten to death twice more.

My question is, why aren't you out there rooting for Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, or some other blue blood to satisfy your thirst for NCAA Tourney success? Since that's all that matters, right?



Twitter: @ou_country

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:44:05 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
FearLeon wrote:

I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul


Come on dude, OU basketball is more than Saul and the team. It's about pregaming at Jackie O's up the hill, a story I'm sure that the Saulcoholic will repeat to us all in a future thread.


Forgive those of us who enjoy making a day of it in Athens.



Twitter: @ou_country

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oubobcatjohn
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:46:17 PM 
He can't even get us to.500 in conference play or the cbi/cit post season tournaments. Forget ncaa tournment he is struggling get this team to cleveland for mac quarterfinals.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:47:17 PM 
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


Is there anyone currently pleased with the results on the court? Especially the last two games?



Twitter: @ou_country

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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 9:52:14 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Now 0-2 in MAC play and staring at 0-5. Our program is not even on par right now with the likes of Northern Illinois, Miami and Bowling Green. Did you think 5 years ago that this would ever be possible? For those of you who follow the program seriously and don't think the #SaulBall era has been anything but an epic failure, I just don't know what to say anymore. This goes well beyond success in March. We are now a team struggling to get out of the bottom of the MAC. That's what happens when you recruit a handful of guys who should be suiting up for Wisconsin Stevens-Point and Ohleone CC. We quit in the last 23 seconds against Northern Illinois and now lose by 19 points to Bowling Green. This is a complete embarrassment and can't end soon enough.


If firing Saul tomorrow gets you to stop posting the exact same thing in two threads, I'll pitch in towards his buyout.


LOL. Not only that, but it's the same thing on repeat thread after thread, week after week. Complete with fun hashtags!

I'll bet in a couple years he's complaining about the next coach, whoever it is, before the start of his third season because they didn't get an NCAA bid yet.


I guess I just expect more. Enjoy the 12-18 season. #KeepApologizingForSaul



12-18 would give us four more wins. With the strength of this year's MAC I can see us MAYBE win at home against Miami and BG and Western. Other than that, who do we beat on the road? And we ain't beating Kent, Kron, Buffs or Balls and Central and Eastern. I could see us at 2-16 too! Crazy.

And those of you worried about transfers ask yourself, who is our superstar?

Last Edited: 1/8/2019 9:54:54 PM by Bobcat1998

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Townie1977
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Location: Etna, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/8/2019 10:11:03 PM 
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


I believe Sears is nearly defunct. A very fair and fitting analogy of #SaulBall.

What is #SaulBall anyway? If it is continuously surrendering sustained and unanswered runs to your opponent and then stating in your post-game that we are "One 4 game streak from turning our season around", I'd say we are #WINNING.

We have the best announce team in the mid-west and I think they even choked when Saul puked out the 4 game win streak statement.
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 9:03:00 AM 
Townie1977 wrote:
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


I believe Sears is nearly defunct. A very fair and fitting analogy of #SaulBall.

What is #SaulBall anyway? If it is continuously surrendering sustained and unanswered runs to your opponent and then stating in your post-game that we are "One 4 game streak from turning our season around", I'd say we are #WINNING.

We have the best announce team in the mid-west and I think they even choked when Saul puked out the 4 game win streak statement.


I would like to know what SaulBall is as well. I watched his North Dakota State team during their tourney run and I saw it as backdoor cuts with high-IQ guys who worked the ball high to low post with a bruiser inside, a point guard with handles and a few 6-7 to 6-9 shooters who could also rebound and post up. In Saul's years of coaching, we had Big Tone inside as a post player but he wasn't Saul's guy. Doug came in and while I love Doug's defensive game, he has not improved one bit offensively. We have Carter who has the ability yet when was the last time you saw our offense truly work to get him touches inside? Very little ball movement and when we do it's not TOWARDS the basket. We dont' go inside-out and instead we take too many 3's with guys who aren't 3-point shooters. I thought BVP would be more multi-dimensional but now he's just a spot-up shooter. Saul either doesn't develop his recruits or he's doing a poor job of recruiting to fit his style.

I also thought from seeing him at NDSU that he was fiery and excitable. Instead at OU we've gotten a car salesman who makes little jokes and uses his aww shucks Wisconsin accent to try to be clever, all while not taking any ownership or even looking like he motivates guys.

Last Edited: 1/9/2019 9:06:14 AM by Bobcat1998

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OU_Country
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Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 10:07:26 AM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Townie1977 wrote:
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


I believe Sears is nearly defunct. A very fair and fitting analogy of #SaulBall.

What is #SaulBall anyway? If it is continuously surrendering sustained and unanswered runs to your opponent and then stating in your post-game that we are "One 4 game streak from turning our season around", I'd say we are #WINNING.

We have the best announce team in the mid-west and I think they even choked when Saul puked out the 4 game win streak statement.


I would like to know what SaulBall is as well. I watched his North Dakota State team during their tourney run and I saw it as backdoor cuts with high-IQ guys who worked the ball high to low post with a bruiser inside, a point guard with handles and a few 6-7 to 6-9 shooters who could also rebound and post up. In Saul's years of coaching, we had Big Tone inside as a post player but he wasn't Saul's guy. Doug came in and while I love Doug's defensive game, he has not improved one bit offensively. We have Carter who has the ability yet when was the last time you saw our offense truly work to get him touches inside? Very little ball movement and when we do it's not TOWARDS the basket. We dont' go inside-out and instead we take too many 3's with guys who aren't 3-point shooters. I thought BVP would be more multi-dimensional but now he's just a spot-up shooter. Saul either doesn't develop his recruits or he's doing a poor job of recruiting to fit his style.

I also thought from seeing him at NDSU that he was fiery and excitable. Instead at OU we've gotten a car salesman who makes little jokes and uses his aww shucks Wisconsin accent to try to be clever, all while not taking any ownership or even looking like he motivates guys.


For what it's worth, wasn't #SaulBall a Marketing scheme drummed up by Ohio Athletics? And, at this point in the deal, does it even matter? I think most of us know what it's supposed to be, and it's not working out. Clearly.

Instead, some of us here are taking pot shots at a guy who is, contrary to some thoughts on here, trying to do his best and it simply didn't work out well at all. He'll move on after this year, and we'll start from scratch again. Why go any farther than that at this point? It's done.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised with message board norms - even here. Cheer 'em on the best you can, and look forward to next year and a clean slate.



Twitter: @ou_country

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 10:12:33 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Cheer 'em on the best you can, and look forward to next year and a clean slate.


Not sure who ISN'T doing this.

Last Edited: 1/9/2019 10:12:57 AM by bobcatsquared

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 10:44:20 AM 
Just wondering,if,as we approach the end of the season,the writing is on the wall for Coach Phillips,would it make any sense for him to,"resign" effective the end of season,rather then not be retained as coach ?
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 9,461

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 11:14:18 AM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Counter-Counterpoint: Geno actually won post-season games at Kent, something Jim was never able to do.


Are we really comparing Geno's post season at Kent (1 CIT, 2 NITs) to Christian's post season at Kent (3 NCAAs, 2 NITs)?


JC lost in the first round in every case. He's horrible in the post season.


Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!
Got Saul . . . and dreams of basketball glory!

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Bobcatboy5
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 11:15:36 AM 
Iím jumping off the Saul Ball train
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 12:59:13 PM 
Here's an outside of the box pick to replace Saul:

Bob Bolden.
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 1:14:26 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Townie1977 wrote:
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


I believe Sears is nearly defunct. A very fair and fitting analogy of #SaulBall.

What is #SaulBall anyway? If it is continuously surrendering sustained and unanswered runs to your opponent and then stating in your post-game that we are "One 4 game streak from turning our season around", I'd say we are #WINNING.

We have the best announce team in the mid-west and I think they even choked when Saul puked out the 4 game win streak statement.


I would like to know what SaulBall is as well. I watched his North Dakota State team during their tourney run and I saw it as backdoor cuts with high-IQ guys who worked the ball high to low post with a bruiser inside, a point guard with handles and a few 6-7 to 6-9 shooters who could also rebound and post up. In Saul's years of coaching, we had Big Tone inside as a post player but he wasn't Saul's guy. Doug came in and while I love Doug's defensive game, he has not improved one bit offensively. We have Carter who has the ability yet when was the last time you saw our offense truly work to get him touches inside? Very little ball movement and when we do it's not TOWARDS the basket. We dont' go inside-out and instead we take too many 3's with guys who aren't 3-point shooters. I thought BVP would be more multi-dimensional but now he's just a spot-up shooter. Saul either doesn't develop his recruits or he's doing a poor job of recruiting to fit his style.

I also thought from seeing him at NDSU that he was fiery and excitable. Instead at OU we've gotten a car salesman who makes little jokes and uses his aww shucks Wisconsin accent to try to be clever, all while not taking any ownership or even looking like he motivates guys.


For what it's worth, wasn't #SaulBall a Marketing scheme drummed up by Ohio Athletics? And, at this point in the deal, does it even matter? I think most of us know what it's supposed to be, and it's not working out. Clearly.

Instead, some of us here are taking pot shots at a guy who is, contrary to some thoughts on here, trying to do his best and it simply didn't work out well at all. He'll move on after this year, and we'll start from scratch again. Why go any farther than that at this point? It's done.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised with message board norms - even here. Cheer 'em on the best you can, and look forward to next year and a clean slate.


Coaches know what they are getting into when they accept jobs and when they do not deliver on their promises to continue excellence being scrutinized is a part of it. I sure do wish I made 500 grand at my own job let alone to coach basketball. And to the naked eye he's not trying to do his best. He never takes ownership over his program when he talks. He never flat out says "This isn't good enough for Bobcat basketball." It's always some folksy aww shucks Wisconsin platitude that steers away from responsibility. Did I mention he makes 500 grand?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 2:00:15 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Townie1977 wrote:
Reuben wrote:
As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.


I believe Sears is nearly defunct. A very fair and fitting analogy of #SaulBall.

What is #SaulBall anyway? If it is continuously surrendering sustained and unanswered runs to your opponent and then stating in your post-game that we are "One 4 game streak from turning our season around", I'd say we are #WINNING.

We have the best announce team in the mid-west and I think they even choked when Saul puked out the 4 game win streak statement.


I would like to know what SaulBall is as well. I watched his North Dakota State team during their tourney run and I saw it as backdoor cuts with high-IQ guys who worked the ball high to low post with a bruiser inside, a point guard with handles and a few 6-7 to 6-9 shooters who could also rebound and post up. In Saul's years of coaching, we had Big Tone inside as a post player but he wasn't Saul's guy. Doug came in and while I love Doug's defensive game, he has not improved one bit offensively. We have Carter who has the ability yet when was the last time you saw our offense truly work to get him touches inside? Very little ball movement and when we do it's not TOWARDS the basket. We dont' go inside-out and instead we take too many 3's with guys who aren't 3-point shooters. I thought BVP would be more multi-dimensional but now he's just a spot-up shooter. Saul either doesn't develop his recruits or he's doing a poor job of recruiting to fit his style.

I also thought from seeing him at NDSU that he was fiery and excitable. Instead at OU we've gotten a car salesman who makes little jokes and uses his aww shucks Wisconsin accent to try to be clever, all while not taking any ownership or even looking like he motivates guys.


For what it's worth, wasn't #SaulBall a Marketing scheme drummed up by Ohio Athletics? And, at this point in the deal, does it even matter? I think most of us know what it's supposed to be, and it's not working out. Clearly.

Instead, some of us here are taking pot shots at a guy who is, contrary to some thoughts on here, trying to do his best and it simply didn't work out well at all. He'll move on after this year, and we'll start from scratch again. Why go any farther than that at this point? It's done.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised with message board norms - even here. Cheer 'em on the best you can, and look forward to next year and a clean slate.


Coaches know what they are getting into when they accept jobs and when they do not deliver on their promises to continue excellence being scrutinized is a part of it. I sure do wish I made 500 grand at my own job let alone to coach basketball. And to the naked eye he's not trying to do his best. He never takes ownership over his program when he talks. He never flat out says "This isn't good enough for Bobcat basketball." It's always some folksy aww shucks Wisconsin platitude that steers away from responsibility. Did I mention he makes 500 grand?


This is silly. You're basically saying that it's not enough that Saul be publicly fired for his failures, but that in addition to that, he should also have to publicly show how upset he is in a manner that you, whoever you are, deem sufficient.

He's going to get fired. That's plenty. No need to attack him personally on the way down.


Last Edited: 1/9/2019 2:23:21 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 2:15:46 PM 
OU_Country wrote:

First, I don't think he's truly torpedoed it. I think the expectation was higher than reality, and injuries followed by misses on recruiting and transfers derailed the whole thing. Imagine if you will, that Tony Campbell doesn't miss the second half of the year. Chances are strong this team ends up playing for and winning a MAC title. Imagine Jaaron makes a different decision and stays, while Jason Carter and Ben Vander Plas aren't hurt for a whole season. That changes the whole trajectory of where we are now, and might even change where we are now in terms of recruiting. And it surely changes the narrative of threads like this one.


I wasn't suggesting Saul torpedo'd things intentionally. But the ifs, ands and buts mean nothing really. The program is where it is. Nothing can really change that right now. And whether it's fair or not, Saul is in change so he falls on that sword. Yes, things haven't gone his way ... and a bounce or two different and we might not be having these conversations. But things did happen ... and the program wasn't able to handle it. So this is where we're at. Whether that is 100% Saul's fault or not is really insignificant. Things are a mess and it's time to fix it before it gets any worse.

OU_Country wrote:
Second, I don't get the parallel with Groce/Christian, and Hurley/Oats, solely because there wasn't continuity with Ohio and they never missed at beat at UB. While it might have been better than the current year, I don't think Christian would have held the program as high as 2011-2013. He wasn't the recruiter that John was at that time.


The parallel wasn't identical to UB in the sense there was a continuity from within the program. It was more of a continuity of successful MAC coaches. Groce had proven in his four years what he could do in the league ... like Hurley (despite his non-success in NCAAs). I thought transitioning from Groce to Christian would continue that MAC success and bring forth more NCAA bids over the course of the Christian era. It didn't last long enough for us to find out.

OU_Country wrote:
Re: Amaker, Cluess, etc: The questions I have are some of the same ones you mention as it compares to Ohio:
-Budgets?
-Facilities - particularly practice facilities?
-What keeps the coaches there? How often have their assistants changed?
-What about their academic standards? (Harvard goes without saying)
-What type of players are they recruiting? What is the recruiting budget?
-What is their paycheck?
-What things do they do that isn't happening at Ohio? (besides turning over coaches every 3-5 years.)

Also worthy of note: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.


There is certainly something to the football angle. I honestly didn't pick up on that when I was compiling those thoughts.

In the same breath, I think Ohio has shown a financial commitment to both football and basketball that puts them at or towards the top of the MAC. I'm not sure if that will change with a new president. I guess we'll find out when they hire a new hoops coach. I think that will give us all a glimpse into the future of Ohio athletics. Schaus/Ohio will have to replace their football coach in the next few years as well. Will they continue to keep up this kind of financial commitment to those programs?

If they do, there is no reason why basketball cannot sustain a successful program that consistently earns MAC tourney byes and plays into the weekend each year in Cleveland. Akron found a way to do that with Dambrot ... and did it with a D1 football program (in name only, ha!)

Regardless ... I'm not suggesting Ohio can turn into a Top 25 hoops program. But I think, with the current financial backing in place, they can be a consistent top three MAC program with the right coach. I really, really thought Jim Christian was that guy based off his MAC track record. Saul obviously didn't get the job done. I think there's a guy out there ... Ohio just needs to find them.

OU_Country wrote:
So again, I'd be curious to see how many C-USA, MAC, Mountain West, or Sun Belt schools that manage both? I'm betting the list is very, very small. And I think the D1 vs non-D1 football issue when comparing mid-major basketball programs has some bearing on the situations.


One that comes to mind is San Diego State. In the last decade, 9 straight bowl games ... 7 NCAA bids during that time. 3 football league titles ... 5 basketball regular season titles. They've been pretty good at both.

Nevada hasn't been bad either ... 11 bowl games since 2005 and 11 basketball postseasons since then. Not a lot of league titles ... but still pretty good success.

Boise has 11 bowl games since 2008 ... and 7 basketball postseason (3 NCAAs)

But your point is taken ... it isn't easy at the G5 level to sustain success at both. But Ohio had it during the Solich & Groce/Christian era ... and I don't think it's unrealistic to think then can't get back to that.

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 1/9/2019 3:06:59 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Counter-Counterpoint: Geno actually won post-season games at Kent, something Jim was never able to do.


Are we really comparing Geno's post season at Kent (1 CIT, 2 NITs) to Christian's post season at Kent (3 NCAAs, 2 NITs)?


JC lost in the first round in every case. He's horrible in the post season.


MAC tourney is post season, so his record is hardly poor. No wins in NCAA, true, but he got there more often than Hunter, O'Shea, Groce and (of course) Saul.



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