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Topic:  Coach Phillips' future

Topic:  Coach Phillips' future
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FlashGary
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  Message Not Read  Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 10:24:49 PM 
I've seen enough. Saul Phillips can coach. He hasn't put it all together yet for a variety of reasons. But I don't believe it's because he doesn't do a good job at what he's trying to do on the court.

So I say extend his contract right now. Take the pressure off so rival schools won't be able to use contract uncertainty as a tool to scare prospective recruits from seriously consider coming to Ohio.

Tightening up recruiting is a must, as it seems like we get one MAC-to-high mid-major player each year after the nice haul that netted Dartis, Taylor, Block and Gollon. It seems like we gamble on projecting a lot of guys who will blossom as high school seniors after we've already signed them. Some do, some don't.

Winning certainly will help the recruiting narrative. Granted, it's taken longer than usual and expected, and injuries have certainly hampered the cause. But I do believe coach Phillips can get it done here.

So I say sign him now. Curious to hear what everyone thinks...

Last Edited: 12/15/2018 10:26:57 PM by FlashGary

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 10:36:45 PM 
I vehemently disagree.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 10:51:00 PM 
This isn't anything per se to do with Coach Phillips but why any university would offer a coach an extension unless he or she is doing a phenomenal job is beyond me? Wasn't Coach Phillips contract at the time of his signing making him one of the highest if not the highest paid coach in the conference? If you get those kind of numbers you have to win championships. No reason to even discuss an extension unless something along those lines occurs.

The arms race of college sports has a lot to do with ballooning coaching salaries. I don't feel that ancient, but I am old enough to remember teaching and coaching in high school and having MAC assistants leave to come back to coach high school sports because they weren't making enough to support a family in the MAC. Now I don't want to go back to those days, but the arms race of coaching salaries is hurting college athletics, especially when it doesn't involve merit pay. They call it merit pay for a reason, you have to show merit for getting an extension.

Last Edited: 12/15/2018 10:52:14 PM by cbus cat fan

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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 11:29:55 PM 
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 11:46:42 PM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.


If, if’s and butt’s were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas.
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 11:50:03 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.


If, if’s and butt’s were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas.



Is there a point to your drivel?
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 11:51:41 PM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.


We are done recruiting for the year, there is no pressure and we are not out recruiting anybody anyway. Saul needs to perform or depart. There is absolutely no consistency with him. I hope he can pull it together. The AD needs to do what’s best for the program, we will have no buyout if we move on this year.

Last Edited: 12/15/2018 11:53:25 PM by allen


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/15/2018 11:52:05 PM 
As I said in my original post, this isn't per se about Coach Phillips but the idea of giving someone a contract extension when they haven't been winning championships is beyond me. If I had a dollar for every promising athlete who said, "Don't worry coach I will get it right in the game" or smart student who said, "Don't worry I will turn in the research project tomorrow," and didn't I would be a rich man.

Lots of people have promise few get you to the promised land--and yet you are going to handsomely reward them? If everyone had this idea who was a day stock trader, or who went out to Las Vegas, we would have a lot of broke people out there. This is beyond crazy.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 12:01:17 AM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.


If, if’s and butt’s were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas.



Is there a point to your drivel?


Coaching and business go together, they are both performance driven jobs. Coaches are CEO’s, there are no excuses like some want to make. Coaches know this and they strive to produce. Coach works his ass off to get better and to succeed, yet he wins a game closer than the “experts want” and some get all edgy. Remember this, this is not a game to coaches, it’s how they feed their families and put a roof over their kids head at night.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 12:05:40 AM 
Tonight's game against Detroit Mercy symbolizes the profound level of mediocrity that has been way too common during Coach Phillips' tenure. I sure hope that the Bobcats don't have to play against anymore Zone defense this year, because Saul does not appear to have a clue as to how to prepare his team for such. Could someone please let me know where the best place is to send him some coaching manuals. As for his future? I am more concerned about the future of this storied program than this seemingly clueless coach. Whatever he is trying to get his players to buy into, it is just not translating well when it comes to actual game time situations. Would someone please tell me what on earth he is trying to accomplish here at Ohio University?
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 12:10:54 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.


If, if’s and butt’s were candy and nuts, everyday would be like Christmas.



Is there a point to your drivel?


Coaching and business go together, they are both performance driven jobs. Coaches are CEO’s, there are no excuses like some want to make. Coaches know this and they strive to produce. Coach works his ass off to get better and to succeed, yet he wins a game closer than the “experts want” and some get all edgy. Remember this, this is not a game to coaches, it’s how they feed their families and put a roof over their kids head at night.


Billy I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not asking for anyone to get fired just not get a contract extension unless they are truly doing an exemplary job. The idea of even MAC coaches who are getting north of a half a million not being able to feed their families in mainly small market cities is beyond me. Unless I am completely oblivious to the average salary/wage of most Bobcat Attack poster, I am guessing few make that kind of money and even fewer are getting contract extensions. I can assure you I am nowhere near both of those categories.

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 12:16:43 AM by cbus cat fan

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FlashGary
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 12:33:16 AM 
allen wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:
Flash,

I agree. Saul has won 54% of his games with lots of guys lost to injuries. Groce won 60%. Take away Campbell and Carter injuries and I bet we're at 60% or more in wins. Easy that some wanna forget the realities/facts.


We are done recruiting for the year, there is no pressure and we are not out recruiting anybody anyway. Saul needs to perform or depart. There is absolutely no consistency with him. I hope he can pull it together. The AD needs to do what’s best for the program, we will have no buyout if we move on this year.



I foresee between one to three other recruits, besides the two players who already have signed their letters of intent. I don't have any inside info, Allen. Just a prediction...
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FlashGary
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 12:36:42 AM 
Maddog13 wrote:
Tonight's game against Detroit Mercy symbolizes the profound level of mediocrity that has been way too common during Coach Phillips' tenure. I sure hope that the Bobcats don't have to play against anymore Zone defense this year, because Saul does not appear to have a clue as to how to prepare his team for such. Could someone please let me know where the best place is to send him some coaching manuals. As for his future? I am more concerned about the future of this storied program than this seemingly clueless coach. Whatever he is trying to get his players to buy into, it is just not translating well when it comes to actual game time situations. Would someone please tell me what on earth he is trying to accomplish here at Ohio University?


I didn't see this as a coaching problem, Maddog13. I contend if you want to level criticism, it would be in not bringing in at least one certified outside shooter among the handful of recruits if you knew you may not have Dartis and Gollon available for part of the season. Especially considering we'll need a shooter to replace Dartis after this season anyway. Put Dartis and Gollon on the floor today and the game probably would have been a laugher. And coach Phillips probably would have looked like a genius...

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 12:48:48 AM by FlashGary

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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 8:10:35 AM 
Maddog13 wrote:
Tonight's game against Detroit Mercy symbolizes the profound level of mediocrity that has been way too common during Coach Phillips' tenure. I sure hope that the Bobcats don't have to play against anymore Zone defense this year, because Saul does not appear to have a clue as to how to prepare his team for such. Could someone please let me know where the best place is to send him some coaching manuals. As for his future? I am more concerned about the future of this storied program than this seemingly clueless coach. Whatever he is trying to get his players to buy into, it is just not translating well when it comes to actual game time situations. Would someone please tell me what on earth he is trying to accomplish here at Ohio University?


And while we have lost 2 shooters and leaders I am frustrated that we have James, Murrell, McMurray and Springs all on the bench doing nothing. That is after last year of having a bunch of guys who do nothing. Saul finds good ones sometimes but his misses are more than his hits lately.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 8:22:03 AM 
I think everyone has said as much as they can on this topic. I have a pretty simple philosophy on this. If you are the head basketball coach at Ohio, you should be able to take your team to the Big Dance at least once in your first five years on the job. It has been that way with every coach since the Hunter Era. Hunter, O'Shea and Groce all did it. Christian gets an incomplete since he bolted after 24 months.

If you don't dance in March in those first five years, then you have to look at other factors. How many appearances in MAC Championship games did that coach have? How many signature wins did that coach have over that five year span? What is the coach's combined record against Buffalo and Akron? Is recruiting better in year five than it was in year one?

Bottom line....there have been zero MAC Championship game appearances in the Saul era. Off the top of my head, I guess Saul's biggest wins were at Georgia Tech and do we say Radford at home? Does anything else really stand out? Current record against Buffalo and Akron is 7-10. As far as recruiting...we have many guys on scholarship who aren't even a threat to hit the floor. I get it...you can't play 12 guys..but Saul's misses are glaring. As the poster above mentioned, we definitely have 3 new players (James, McMurray and Springs) on scholarship this year who won't contribute at all. The jury is still out on Murrell.

Add all this up and it's it's been a pretty mediocre four years of #SaulBall. He has to win the MAC tournament to keep his job. That certainly appears to be the message Schaus is sending with no contract extension after year four and can you really blame our AD for that thinking? But the AD has to look in the mirror too...he hired him. This just doesn't seem to be a good fit for anyone.

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 8:41:49 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 9:21:07 AM 
Injuries have been a huge story line in Saul's career and have undoubtedly dampened his winning percentage. You can't argue that losing Antonio Campbell, Jason Carter and now Jordan Dartis aren't huge stumbling blocks to his success. But what will be Saul's ultimate story line is his complete inability to control his PGs on the court. There are zero consequences for doing whatever the heck you feel like on the court. And after watching how we handled pressure in the second I can't imagine a human being on Earth watching that game and thinking "These are two really well coached teams." A banked in hideous 3 was the perfect way to decide that game.
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Gman
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 10:46:02 AM 
I believe Schaus already has his mind made up on Saul, that's why there's no extension on Saul's contract, Injuries or not, you recruit to have a deep bench and play those bench players which Saul has not in 5 years now, I hate to be the one to say this but, its gonna get worse before it gets better.
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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 11:05:33 AM 
He gets a road win against the last place team in the 26th rated conference and its time to rush an extension? How about we pick up a couple of nice MAC wins first before we have this conversation at the very least.


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 1:20:36 PM 
Who won the game? Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns. Don’t bother they’re here.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 1:56:01 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Who won the game? Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns. Don’t bother they’re here.


Giacomo I am just trying to understand your post. Honestly, I am not one of those who believes in firing coaches at the drop of a hat, but I certainly don't believe in in giving coaches who are making over one half million dollars an extension when they haven't come close to winning a conference championship. Do you believe people should keep their jobs no matter what? I am just trying to understand the mindset of some of these posts.

A funny story a couple of years ago at a work happy hour I met a a guy who once lived in the former East Germany. Having relatives from Germany I spoke a little German and we began to talk about East Germany, especially their sports machine. He told me the worst thing about Communism/Socialism, besides the lack of freedom was the the complete ineptness that ruled society. The only people who ever lost their jobs in the former East Germany were sports officials and coaches. Now we all know how cruel the East German sports machine could be. However, it was the only part of society that had some level of success and accountability. No one else in the workforce could ever lose their jobs and the ineptness that permeated that society was mind numbing. He was convinced that this brought down the Iron Curtain more than anything else.

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 2:02:09 PM by cbus cat fan

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 2:36:29 PM 
I basically agree with FlashGary. I also think it's not reasonable not to consider the injury situation. Two years in a row Saul had this best player out with a season ending injury. He's now got the one guy back. Has anyone else noticed that Saul has given him (Carter) fairly limited minutes in every game. I think Saul wants to make sure that he doesn't re-injure himself and that he continues to heal. Also, he probably wants him in peak condition for MAC play.

I think if Saul was Johnny Wooden early in his career and he'd been hit with these kinds of injuries to key players that the BA lynch mob would be asking for his head. I'm not saying Saul is Wooden 2.0, but I'm saying that I think he's a good coach whose best days are yet to come.

I agree with Maddog13 that we didn't handle the zone too well, but I disagree that Saul is clueless about how to deal with it. I think at times, it's more a matter of our execution. If we could reliably hit the three, we'd force them out of the zone quickly. But we can't at this time do that with any consistency at all. So, we were trying with ball reversal and various pick and rolls to get in back of the zone for layups. It worked better sometimes than others, which was less on the coach than on the players execution.

I also agree that TK has become somewhat of a liability in his current role, which I think needs to be redefined. Preston, IMHO, is fast becoming the better distributor. He should be the PG going forward. TK is at his best slashing to the rim. I'm not enough of an Xs and Os guy to know best how to switch these roles, but something should be done. I trust that Saul will make changes as the season unfolds.

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 2:38:54 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 2:42:29 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Who won the game? Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns. Don’t bother they’re here.


Come on g - that's one of my favorite songs.

But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 2:52:08 PM 

Alan Swank wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Who won the game? Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns. Don’t bother they’re here.


Come on g - that's one of my favorite songs.

But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here

 

I love the self awareness! wink cool smiley


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 2:54:52 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Who won the game? Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns. Don’t bother they’re here.


Having actually trained with Jon Towson, who wrote the definitive book on Clowning, I will take that as a compliment; after all, a three ring circus and this message board are far more entertaining than that total meltdown witnessed in Detroit last night. Didn't Toledo beat this team by forty points? I don't know about you, but I have more faith in my large clown shoes and the little fire truck that I run around in with my fellow Bobcattack.com companions than Coach Phillips' chances of leading this team to the promised land.

Being a dedicated Alum, I expect better product out on the floor from a guy who is getting paid a half-million dollars, win or lose.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coach Phillips' future
   Posted: 12/16/2018 3:42:16 PM 
Maddog 13 I am just wondering what it would take for some folks not to give someone a $500,000+ contract extension? I am not talking about firing people, just assessing their performance when their contract is up and seeing if they have met any of the key objectives?

I mean is showing up and winning some games all it takes? I mean if that's what it takes, off the top of my head I can name a dozen high school coaches I coached with who could do that in the MAC. Some of those coaches lost their best players to mono, bad grades, disciplinary issues etc and they still managed to win district championships, regional championships, and one even made a state appearance. Sadly the East German analogy I used in my previous post might be more relevant than I had imagined, which is really troubling.

Last Edited: 12/16/2018 3:52:18 PM by cbus cat fan

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