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I'm glad that it was foul trouble and not another injury. If I could summarize this team, so far. It's kind of like a "collective Bean." What I meant by that is that back when we had Bean, I used to tell people this team lived by the Bean and died by the Bean, meaning that if Bean was hot from three-land we'd win, if he wasn't we'd lose. This team seems to have a collective Bean mentality: Keep jacking 'em up whether your hot or not, hoping you'll eventually get hot. No change in the game strategy when the threes aren't dropping. Some games "Beaning it" works, some games it doesn't. An oversimplification for sure, but I think there's a grain of truth here. The team should've learned from Taylor yesterday. He got the ball on the perimeter, took a step in (foot on the line) and drained a two. What they should've gotten was that is that when threes aren't working, try twos. 3=0 and 2>0. We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top DinksRecordFreeThrow General User Member Since: 4/10/2018 Post Count: 47 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/19/2018 3:34:09 PM  OU_Country wrote: OUVan wrote: Bobcat1998 wrote: Losing guys like Carter is huge but the fact that we have 4 guys sitting on the bench who saw NO time yesterday was disheartening. It means that we are bringing in projects instead of instant impact guys. Do you know who else had 4 guys sitting on the bench who saw NO time yesterday? Pretty much every other team that played unless the game was a blowout. I'm with you there - in a way. I'm with you in that most teams have 2-3 guys who ride the pine most of the year. I like McMurray, and think most of his lack of PT is simply because of who is ahead of him. Murrell is puzzling to me, as I expected a little more. I had no expectation that James or Springs would get much PT this year though. I'm with you in that "instant impact guys" don't grow on trees, and it would make sense to reflect back on previous coaching staffs to consider whether or not this is all that different. I don't know if it is, or isn't. While the lack of Dartis and Gollon plays a factor, there's no good reason to lose that one to Loyola. None. They couldn't throw the ball in the ocean, and didn't seem to adapt enough. That was a troubling thing for me as a I watched. Another troubling thing for me, and it has been for the last 3-4 years, is that there isn't a second defensive look to switch things up. Or if there is, it's not used nearly enough. At the end of the game, with 3 minutes to go, they cranked up the pressure and got results. Why not do that once in awhile throughout the game to change the tempo? I don't care if it's pressure trapping, a zone, or whatever, but a way to change looks defensively is, and has been, needed. You nailed it on several levels... specifically with the pressure. Especially given the fact Batemon was hobbled. He was a decoy so ramping up the pressure would've made sense. Also It would've been nice to get the ball in bounds when we cut it to 4 and had the ball. LMU was falling apart. We had a chance there. Back to Top shabamon General User Member Since: 11/17/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 6,102 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/19/2018 3:39:54 PM  Saul has said he does not do zone defense. Don't know why because we're hardly ever out-athlete anybody. And here and there, you're going to run into teams where it's better to play zone against them than man. I also can't remember a time under Saul where we've played any sort of defense in the backcourt unless it was under four minutes in the game and we were behind. I don't understand his stubbornness with his defensive approach. Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,925 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/19/2018 10:10:04 PM  Pataskala wrote: The team should've learned from Taylor yesterday. He got the ball on the perimeter, took a step in (foot on the line) and drained a two. What they should've gotten was that is that when threes aren't working, try twos. 3=0 and 2>0. I'm sorry, but no. Long 2's are the most inefficient shot in basketball. There's a reason that every successful team you see in the NBA and most in college basketball are focusing on 3's and layups only. Back to Top . General User Member Since: 2/3/2005 Post Count: 2,949 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/20/2018 9:29:51 AM  bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: Pataskala wrote: The team should've learned from Taylor yesterday. He got the ball on the perimeter, took a step in (foot on the line) and drained a two. What they should've gotten was that is that when threes aren't working, try twos. 3=0 and 2>0. I'm sorry, but no. Long 2's are the most inefficient shot in basketball. There's a reason that every successful team you see in the NBA and most in college basketball are focusing on 3's and layups only. Agreed. The college three-point line is a mid-range jumper already. If you can’t make more than 35 percent of them from there, you probably shouldn’t be shooting any jumpers at all. There’s a case to be made for the mid-range game like Demar Derozen’s in the NBA. I don’t see a compelling one in college basketball. Too compacted. the game is won by making 3-pointers, getting to the free throw line and getting lay-ups. Oh God, I’m transforming into Dan D’Antoni. Stop me before I start wearing a t-shirt under a sports coat! Last Edited: 11/20/2018 9:38:12 AM by . Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/20/2018 10:16:13 AM  shabamon wrote: Saul has said he does not do zone defense. Don't know why because we're hardly ever out-athlete anybody. And here and there, you're going to run into teams where it's better to play zone against them than man. I also can't remember a time under Saul where we've played any sort of defense in the backcourt unless it was under four minutes in the game and we were behind. I don't understand his stubbornness with his defensive approach. Agreed. That's exactly my point. And it makes no sense. Trying the same things and expecting different results...I'll be darned, it must be the Ohio Athletics way, because that seems like a Frankball thing too. Funny thing is, it's not what I perceive the Ohio Women's team to play like, or how softball and baseball are operating. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/20/2018 10:17:32 AM  Brian Smith wrote: Oh God, I’m transforming into Dan D’Antoni. Stop me before I start wearing a t-shirt under a sports coat! I hate to admit it, but I actually like watching Marshall play, despite how much I don't like Marshall and their fans. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,454 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/20/2018 11:57:41 AM  OU_Country wrote: shabamon wrote: Saul has said he does not do zone defense. Don't know why because we're hardly ever out-athlete anybody. And here and there, you're going to run into teams where it's better to play zone against them than man. I also can't remember a time under Saul where we've played any sort of defense in the backcourt unless it was under four minutes in the game and we were behind. I don't understand his stubbornness with his defensive approach. Agreed. That's exactly my point. And it makes no sense. Trying the same things and expecting different results...I'll be darned, it must be the Ohio Athletics way, because that seems like a Frankball thing too. Funny thing is, it's not what I perceive the Ohio Women's team to play like, or how softball and baseball are operating. Ohio baseball has had two MAC Titles, but has also failed to qualify for the tournament a couple of times, and has a losing record in MAC play. So, if that is your bell cow of a measurement, then so be it. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/20/2018 12:51:26 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: OU_Country wrote: shabamon wrote: Saul has said he does not do zone defense. Don't know why because we're hardly ever out-athlete anybody. And here and there, you're going to run into teams where it's better to play zone against them than man. I also can't remember a time under Saul where we've played any sort of defense in the backcourt unless it was under four minutes in the game and we were behind. I don't understand his stubbornness with his defensive approach. Agreed. That's exactly my point. And it makes no sense. Trying the same things and expecting different results...I'll be darned, it must be the Ohio Athletics way, because that seems like a Frankball thing too. Funny thing is, it's not what I perceive the Ohio Women's team to play like, or how softball and baseball are operating. Ohio baseball has had two MAC Titles, but has also failed to qualify for the tournament a couple of times, and has a losing record in MAC play. So, if that is your bell cow of a measurement, then so be it. I'm not incredibly familiar, I'll be honest. In other words, I read about them periodically in the spring. It's just been my perception that they aren't trying the same things and expecting different results. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'm of the opinion that the football and basketball teams pretty much are doing just that. Back to Top . General User Member Since: 2/3/2005 Post Count: 2,949 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/20/2018 1:37:42 PM  I was covering a high school head coach who won more than500 games, always playing man-to-man defense. He had this one team that couldn't defend a lick. Just awful. During the middle of a game midseason he literally yells out during a timeout. "YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY DEFENSE?! FINE! YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE FIRST ONE OF MY TEAMS TO PLAY ZONE DEFENSE IN 35 YEARS!" And they rocked it. Just rocked it. Became an average defensive team the rest of the year. I asked the coach about it and he just shrugged his shoulders and looked up at the ceiling. "Signs and wonders. Signs and wonders. BLEEP me, (His Name) is playing zone." I don't think there's another quote I more wish I could've put in print that I couldn't. It's that or the coach who told me his best rebounder "goes for the ball with every inch of his manhood. (awkward pause) Uh, please don't use that." Last Edited: 11/20/2018 1:38:18 PM by . Back to Top BobcatBeReal General User Member Since: 4/1/2012 Post Count: 14 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/23/2018 3:44:33 PM  I think you will find that this will not be a below average MAC team by the time we get into conference play. Let's look at a few reasons. - Jason Carter, who will be an all-conference player by year end is just beginning to get rust off after being out all of last year. - Two best shooters are not playing because of injuries. Both should be back by start of conference play. Without the ability to spread the floor with shooters much of the offense is difficult to run. - Three newcomers will end up having a good year as they continue to grasp offense. Their defense is already being impactful. Ben, Jason, & Antonio will play major roles this year. - What most outsiders don't see is the tremendous leadership role Doug has on team as well as all the little things he does both offensively and on defense. Year is just starting and we have already played two really good teams, don't jump to conclusions. Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,034 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/23/2018 7:50:00 PM  BobcatBeReal wrote: I think you will find that this will not be a below average MAC team by the time we get into conference play. Let's look at a few reasons. - Jason Carter, who will be an all-conference player by year end is just beginning to get rust off after being out all of last year. - Two best shooters are not playing because of injuries. Both should be back by start of conference play. Without the ability to spread the floor with shooters much of the offense is difficult to run. - Three newcomers will end up having a good year as they continue to grasp offense. Their defense is already being impactful. Ben, Jason, & Antonio will play major roles this year. - What most outsiders don't see is the tremendous leadership role Doug has on team as well as all the little things he does both offensively and on defense. Year is just starting and we have already played two really good teams, don't jump to conclusions. A lot of opinions here - guess we'll have to wait and see. I have to ask, however, what do you know about Gollon and Dartis returning by conference play? I've heard otherwise concerning Dartis. Back to Top Bobcat1996 General User Member Since: 1/2/2017 Post Count: 794 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Loyola Marymount    Posted: 11/23/2018 8:13:57 PM  Don't count these Bobcat players out yet. The Bulls will be the obvious team to beat, but Ohio can scrap it out with the rest of them. 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