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Topic:  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:

Topic:  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 12:26:09 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
berniebobcat wrote:
For a little perspective, here is John Wooden's record before going on his multi-title run beginning in 1964. I'm sure UCLA fans are happy that they didn't bounce him out after the mediocre years of 1951 through 54. It takes time to build a winning program, as well as some luck.


Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Indiana State Sycamores (Indiana Intercollegiate Conference) (1946–1948)
1946–47 Indiana State 17–8 5–2 1st NAIA invitation declined
1947–48 Indiana State 27–7 7–0 1st NAIA Runner-up
Indiana State: 44–15 (.746) 12–2 (.857)
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific Coast Conference) (1948–1959)
1948–49 UCLA 22–7 10–2 1st (South)
1949–50 UCLA 24–7 10–2 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1950–51 UCLA 19–10 9–4 T–1st (South)
1951–52 UCLA 19–12 8–4 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1952–53 UCLA 16–8 6–6 3rd (South)
1953–54 UCLA 18–7 7–5 2nd (South)
1954–55 UCLA 21–5 11–1 1st (South)
1955–56 UCLA 22–6 16–0 1st NCAA Regional Third Place
1956–57 UCLA 22–4 13–3 T–2nd
1957–58 UCLA 16–10 10–6 3rd
1958–59 UCLA 16–9 10–6 T–3rd
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific-8 Conference) (1959–1975)
1959–60 UCLA 14–12 7–5 2nd
1960–61 UCLA 18–8 7–5 2nd
1961–62 UCLA 18–11 10–2 1st NCAA University Division Fourth Place
1962–63 UCLA 20–9 8–5 T–1st NCAA University Division Regional Fourth Place

205 wins 77 losses WP 72.7%


My god...please tell me I did not just see a John Wooden vs Saul Phillips comparison through first five years??? I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this.


yes ... because college basketball in the 40's and 50's is comparable. Ha! What a stretch.

I think most of these points have been made ... but Saul is a lame duck.

Win ... and he leaves for a "bigger & better" job




bshot I usually agree with a lot of things you say...but I don't think SP has had quite the success warranted for a bigger/better job move at this point, even if Ohio does happen to make a run to the dance and win some games there.

Still, some dumb programs do like to throw money at coaches who win in March. So who knows.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 1:29:23 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:

bshot I usually agree with a lot of things you say...but I don't think SP has had quite the success warranted for a bigger/better job move at this point, even if Ohio does happen to make a run to the dance and win some games there.

Still, some dumb programs do like to throw money at coaches who win in March. So who knows.


You nailed it. That's why I put "bigger and better" in quotations.

We've seen it enough times ... a guy gets to the NCAA tourney or wins a game and he bolts for another job.

Plus, Saul has already won an NCAA game at ND State. So he'll have that on his resume too.

It might very well be a jump to somewhere like Southern Illinois or Wisconsin-Green Bay.

But I just don't think there is hardly any chance he's roaming the sidelines at The Convo next year regardless of what kind of season they have.
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lovebobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 7:43:13 PM 
Saul has had bad luck: the injury to Tony two years ago, Jaaron's decision not to return for a final season, and Carter's injury last year. All killers. Take even two of those three away and this team likely wins a championship or two.

And this season starts under another cloud of injuries.

I really like Saul as a person, but it'd be hard to re-up a guy who hasn't won a division title or gotten to a MAC tourney final. After five seasons, extending him would look like settling for mediocrity.

Sometimes it just doesn't work out for a coach in a given spot. I hope we win big and we decide to extend him, but right now this feels like a lame-duck season.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/7/2018 6:56:27 PM 
lovebobcat wrote:
Saul has had bad luck: the injury to Tony two years ago, Jaaron's decision not to return for a final season, and Carter's injury last year. All killers.


This can't be overstated. An argument could be made each of those 3 were the best players in the MAC that year (disclaimer, I am irrationally high on Carter).


Andrew Ruck
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/7/2018 7:57:10 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:


This can't be overstated. An argument could be made each of those 3 were the best players in the MAC that year (disclaimer, I am irrationally high on Carter).


At the very least they were all 1st team All-MAC players (Carter was preseason All-MAC if I remember correctly).
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ClevelandCat '11
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/9/2018 9:03:12 PM 
Anything short of a MAC title appearance and he has to be GONE
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/10/2018 11:19:42 AM 
ClevelandCat '11 wrote:
Anything short of a MAC title appearance and he has to be GONE


So if they go 17-14 but get hot in March, and go to the MAC title game, and win, you're all for retaining the coaching staff?
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/10/2018 3:11:16 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
ClevelandCat '11 wrote:
Anything short of a MAC title appearance and he has to be GONE


So if they go 17-14 but get hot in March, and go to the MAC title game, and win, you're all for retaining the coaching staff?


Absolutely. The season starts in March.



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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 11:12:55 AM 
For those who think Saul is a goner after this year I can't name one athletic coach that Schaus has fired in his 10 years in Athens. Volleyball has been a machine. Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs. Solich hasn't had a losing season. Basketball coaches (O'Shea, Groce Christian) all moved on to other jobs. The Knorr and Hunter firings where in a sense of urgency era for Ohio athletics when FBS status was at stake and athletics needed to quickly show some value.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 11:22:41 AM 
Then why not extend his contract rather than give him a lame duck season? Can't be good for recruiting.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 12:03:08 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
For those who think Saul is a goner after this year I can't name one athletic coach that Schaus has fired in his 10 years in Athens. Volleyball has been a machine. Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs. Solich hasn't had a losing season. Basketball coaches (O'Shea, Groce Christian) all moved on to other jobs. The Knorr and Hunter firings where in a sense of urgency era for Ohio athletics when FBS status was at stake and athletics needed to quickly show some value.


He fired 2 women's BB coaches. I asked recently what he considers acceptable. He responded that Ohio must consistently rank in leagues top 2 in FB and BB. Make of that what you will, but it tells me Saul is on the clock.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 12:13:02 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Then why not extend his contract rather than give him a lame duck season? Can't be good for recruiting.


That is something coaches have sold athletic programs on, the need for a multi year contract to protect recruiting. The concept was bought into as an industry best practice but I don't know if its necessarily a must. Solich is recruiting fine on a year-2-year contract.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 12:36:34 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
For those who think Saul is a goner after this year I can't name one athletic coach that Schaus has fired in his 10 years in Athens. Volleyball has been a machine. Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs. Solich hasn't had a losing season. Basketball coaches (O'Shea, Groce Christian) all moved on to other jobs. The Knorr and Hunter firings were in a sense of urgency era for Ohio athletics when FBS status was at stake and athletics needed to quickly show some value.


The thing with smaller sports is you can ride them out until the end of their contracts or they move up. However, the looming financial crunch in addition to Schaus resigning from the NCAA Tournament Committee because he had to get his house in order are not good signs. With Saul's 550K salary, you really think a beancounter is not looking at this as a way to slash budget on top of attendance problems that have stemmed from losing and waning interest? There are numerous lower level seats for sale this year, including some in platinum. You're probably right, Schaus hasn't had to make a major firing, and I don't think he will on this one. If anything, a new beancounter in the dept or the university president is going to pull the plug on the Saul era unless he wins big. And if they do renew, there's no way in hell it's going to happen at 550K a year, especially since the BC money has officially dried up.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 2:25:40 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
For those who think Saul is a goner after this year I can't name one athletic coach that Schaus has fired in his 10 years in Athens. Volleyball has been a machine. Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs. Solich hasn't had a losing season. Basketball coaches (O'Shea, Groce Christian) all moved on to other jobs. The Knorr and Hunter firings were in a sense of urgency era for Ohio athletics when FBS status was at stake and athletics needed to quickly show some value.


The thing with smaller sports is you can ride them out until the end of their contracts or they move up. However, the looming financial crunch in addition to Schaus resigning from the NCAA Tournament Committee because he had to get his house in order are not good signs. With Saul's 550K salary, you really think a beancounter is not looking at this as a way to slash budget on top of attendance problems that have stemmed from losing and waning interest? There are numerous lower level seats for sale this year, including some in platinum. You're probably right, Schaus hasn't had to make a major firing, and I don't think he will on this one. If anything, a new beancounter in the dept or the university president is going to pull the plug on the Saul era unless he wins big. And if they do renew, there's no way in hell it's going to happen at 550K a year, especially since the BC money has officially dried up.


Interesting approach. Resign the basketball coach at half of what he's currently making to reflect his subpar performance. At $275k that would place him right at the bottom as far as MAC salaries go. I could see the AD after Solich retires to try and offer the next guy less money and deemphasis football some. Basketball however is the schools chance to compete with the power schools directly and I would go up in money not down. A big name in the roundhouse is going to attract fans and donors.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/11/2018 5:41:44 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
For those who think Saul is a goner after this year I can't name one athletic coach that Schaus has fired in his 10 years in Athens. Volleyball has been a machine. Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs. Solich hasn't had a losing season. Basketball coaches (O'Shea, Groce Christian) all moved on to other jobs. The Knorr and Hunter firings were in a sense of urgency era for Ohio athletics when FBS status was at stake and athletics needed to quickly show some value.


The thing with smaller sports is you can ride them out until the end of their contracts or they move up. However, the looming financial crunch in addition to Schaus resigning from the NCAA Tournament Committee because he had to get his house in order are not good signs. With Saul's 550K salary, you really think a beancounter is not looking at this as a way to slash budget on top of attendance problems that have stemmed from losing and waning interest? There are numerous lower level seats for sale this year, including some in platinum. You're probably right, Schaus hasn't had to make a major firing, and I don't think he will on this one. If anything, a new beancounter in the dept or the university president is going to pull the plug on the Saul era unless he wins big. And if they do renew, there's no way in hell it's going to happen at 550K a year, especially since the BC money has officially dried up.


Interesting approach. Resign the basketball coach at half of what he's currently making to reflect his subpar performance. At $275k that would place him right at the bottom as far as MAC salaries go. I could see the AD after Solich retires to try and offer the next guy less money and deemphasis football some. Basketball however is the schools chance to compete with the power schools directly and I would go up in money not down. A big name in the roundhouse is going to attract fans and donors.


It's an unrealistic approach and I never said it would be at half off of his current value. And do you really think academic guys understand that athletics can be a benefit if done right? Me either.

And Saul is not going to re-sign for less money. It's either he wins big and another school comes calling or he's fired for losing too much. Simple as that. Option 3 (and I'd put this at 20-1 odds) that a booster writes a check to keep him at this level and appease the university with making sure athletics covers its budget.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/12/2018 11:45:02 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
ClevelandCat '11 wrote:
Anything short of a MAC title appearance and he has to be GONE


So if they go 17-14 but get hot in March, and go to the MAC title game, and win, you're all for retaining the coaching staff?


Absolutely. The season starts in March.




And the NFL starts on Super Bowl Sunday.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/12/2018 11:53:59 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
For those who think Saul is a goner after this year I can't name one athletic coach that Schaus has fired in his 10 years in Athens. Volleyball has been a machine. Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs. Solich hasn't had a losing season. Basketball coaches (O'Shea, Groce Christian) all moved on to other jobs. The Knorr and Hunter firings were in a sense of urgency era for Ohio athletics when FBS status was at stake and athletics needed to quickly show some value.


The thing with smaller sports is you can ride them out until the end of their contracts or they move up. However, the looming financial crunch in addition to Schaus resigning from the NCAA Tournament Committee because he had to get his house in order are not good signs. With Saul's 550K salary, you really think a beancounter is not looking at this as a way to slash budget on top of attendance problems that have stemmed from losing and waning interest? There are numerous lower level seats for sale this year, including some in platinum. You're probably right, Schaus hasn't had to make a major firing, and I don't think he will on this one. If anything, a new beancounter in the dept or the university president is going to pull the plug on the Saul era unless he wins big. And if they do renew, there's no way in hell it's going to happen at 550K a year, especially since the BC money has officially dried up.


Interesting approach. Resign the basketball coach at half of what he's currently making to reflect his subpar performance. At $275k that would place him right at the bottom as far as MAC salaries go. I could see the AD after Solich retires to try and offer the next guy less money and deemphasis football some. Basketball however is the schools chance to compete with the power schools directly and I would go up in money not down. A big name in the roundhouse is going to attract fans and donors.


I agree with the premise you're talking about with basketball being a better chance to compete with big name schools - I've felt that way for years. I'm curious though, who is a "big name coach" going to be? When they signed Saul, I'd say he was as big name as we've had around here at the time of the signing anyway.

As for numerous lower level seats being available, it's pretty obvious that demand at that price point isn't there. I know of two season ticket holder friends this year that decided enough was enough and bought cheap seats. So the lacking bodies in the lower levels aren't 100% because of on court results.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/12/2018 12:35:02 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Baseball Joe Smith has come in and won a couple of MACCs.


*Rob Smith


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/12/2018 4:58:31 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Solich is recruiting fine on a year-2-year contract.




I'm not sure that's apples-to-apples. Everybody knows that Frank's not leaving until Frank wants to leave (no matter how much some people on this board want him to). Saul's status is a much bigger question mark.

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/13/2018 3:36:01 PM 
The season has got off to a good start and if the Bobcats stay healthy they can have a nice first two months. The schedule sets up for them to be successful before MAC play begins. Very few true road games with Purdue and Xavier the only tough ones. Detroit Mercy away is a game Ohio can win. If Ohio takes care of business at home they can roll into MAC play with several wins. Nine wins before conference play begins is possible with all the home games. Of course Buffalo is the favorite in the league, but with 11 or 12 MAC wins that gives the Bobcats 20 plus W's going into the league tournament. Don't count these players or coaching staff out just yet.
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Chicken George
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 3/3/2019 12:32:21 PM 
Interesting to revisit the preseason barometer now nearly 5 months later. The overwhelming winner on this poll was Top 4 & MAC Championship game appearance (20 votes). According to this poll, for the majority who chose to respond, the verdict has been cast. Clearly Top 4 in Regular season is a far cry from the eventual outcome of Bottom 4.
Second highest vote was getting to MAC Championship Game (9 votes), which obviously is still possible.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 3/3/2019 2:33:26 PM 
Thanks for bringing this back for perspective. Yep, my expectations and mind haven't changed a bit.

GraffZ06 wrote:
Make the NCAA tournament = extend him.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that won 20-25+ games and finished top 3 in the MAC = give him one more year.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that was mediocre or bad but got "hot" at the right time = probably move on.
Anything less = he gone.


Notice the trend. March. March. March. March. It's literally all that matters. MAC finals or bust.


Obviously option 2 above is no longer possible, which means it's win the tournament or bust for SP. That mirrors what I've been saying for awhile now.

But yes I still agree if he DOES win it. I do a 180 and we extend him - however remote that possibility actually is of occurring.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 3/3/2019 2:55:35 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Thanks for bringing this back for perspective. Yep, my expectations and mind haven't changed a bit.

GraffZ06 wrote:
Make the NCAA tournament = extend him.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that won 20-25+ games and finished top 3 in the MAC = give him one more year.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that was mediocre or bad but got "hot" at the right time = probably move on.
Anything less = he gone.


Notice the trend. March. March. March. March. It's literally all that matters. MAC finals or bust.


Obviously option 2 above is no longer possible, which means it's win the tournament or bust for SP. That mirrors what I've been saying for awhile now.

But yes I still agree if he DOES win it. I do a 180 and we extend him - however remote that possibility actually is of occurring.


As interesting as your list is, the important one is the one that JS has. I suspect that it might be different than yours. Not sure . . . just a hunch! ;-)


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 3/5/2019 9:41:36 AM 
It took me a while to get here, but I eventually created my own personal standards for Ohio basketball that are based on some realities of being a MAC school.

I think it's fair to say that, historically, men's basketball has been a valued commodity at Ohio University and that, while not as much as I would like, a good amount of resources have been dedicated to its success (talking moreso about coaching salaries than physical facilities which I think need to be enhanced).

Because of the tradition/history, fan support, and financial investments, here is what I expect out of the program with regularity:

-20+ wins

-an upper tier place in the MAC standings-top 4, with the first MAC tourney game being played in Cleveland (within the current format). Worst case hosting a home game in the first round. Blowouts and losing streaks in conference are a rarity.

-Reaching the semis of the MAC tournament with regularity

-Winning the conference tournament and going to the dance at least once every 3-5 years. Playing well once there. Going as an at large is pretty much a pipe dream for me given the history of the selection committee. If Buffalo doesn't win the tournament this year I am not 100% convinced they get an at large, especially if Syracuse struggles to close out the season (lost by 26 at home to UVA last night).

-At least being invited to mid-major postseason tournaments based on success in the regular season.

If there is a magical season where the Bobcats have a great non-conference record and go on a strong run through the MAC (say something similar to what Buffalo is doing this year) and make the tournament and win a couple of games even-that would be wonderful! However, I also know that probably means the coach who led all of that is on the fast track to being the next coach at a middling Big ______ program. It's not realistic to expect that on a regular basis.


Ohio-The State University

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 3/5/2019 10:23:40 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
ClevelandCat '11 wrote:
Anything short of a MAC title appearance and he has to be GONE


So if they go 17-14 but get hot in March, and go to the MAC title game, and win, you're all for retaining the coaching staff?


Absolutely. The season starts in March.





So the ticket I paid $500 for was to watch practice games?

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