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Topic: RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Topic: RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

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Campus Flow
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/26/2018 12:44:21 PM

Ohio can find the money to buy out Saul but doesn't want to waste it on a buyout. Early buyouts are a bad stewardship of money and send a signal to future prospective coaches they are on a short leash if they take this job.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

DinksRecordFreeThrow
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/26/2018 3:20:38 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

Agree on the buyout angles and waste- but what's a worse look for prospective coaches? A buyout or lame duck year?

Neither are good but if I am an up and coming coach I would hate to see the admin not see any potential in me that they would let this thing go to the end. At least a buy out is immediate closure to move on.

greencat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/26/2018 7:04:21 PM

Hiring a re-tread would be a horrible mistake.

No Pitino. No Stallings. No Mike Jarvis.

Keep an eye on young guys like Brian Collins at T.S.U. (age 34)

Or maybe Julian Terrell, coaching in the NBA G-league (also 34)

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/26/2018 9:43:04 PM

FearLeon wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Uncle Wes wrote:

When is the home game with Purdue? I can't see the administration hanging on to Saul with such a big game to unveil a new coach.

I can't imagine that the Purdue game will make one wit of a difference when they decide whether or not to renew Saul. [If it hasn't been done already. Better issue a new FOIA request.]

Are you saying that Arkley's reporting is false when it comes to his story of no contract extension for Saul? Why don't you do your own FOIA request? Seems like you are the only one on here who thinks Saul received some mysterious extension. Check that...the second one. Because obviously the person who sent me a private message saying Saul was extended last October was wrong too.

No, I'm not saying Arkley's reporting is false. I'm saying that Arkley made his request awhile back. It would be just like the AD to offer an extension after school is out and there is less scrutiny by the media, including The Post. There could have been a verbal commitment to Saul that they waited until after school was out to put on paper. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I KNOW THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THIS SCENARIO IS A POSSIBILITY, AND ONE THAT I WOULD NOT DISCOUNT OUT OF HAND.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

giacomo
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/28/2018 12:13:07 PM

If we buy out a coach's contract EVER, the development people better lose my phone number. Not that I'm a big giver, but that signals to me they don't need our money. I'm still hacked off they didn't let Larry finish his deal.

Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 8:30:31 AM

giacomo wrote:

This stance, which I understand completely, is among many reasons we're in a lame duck year. I think paying someone more than half a million dollars to go away would be even less palatable from a university politics perspective given the cuts that are happening elsewhere. I also think the fact that SP has seemingly done everything right except win may be a factor in giving him the final year.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 9:32:15 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

giacomo wrote:

"everything right except win"

Explain please. He didn't win in year 4 but you can't say he hasn't won any games. He clearly knew how to win in year 2 & 3. And this whole thread started by a guy who wants to rename the football field after a guy who went in his first four years 4-8, 9-5, 6-6, 4-8. not saying I disagree, but... perspective a little bit please.

Gman
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 10:37:00 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

giacomo wrote:

I left the dead horse alone till my name was brought up, Ohio Football averaged a 4 & 8 record for 25 years before Frank. Not 1 winning season Grobe had a 6 & 6 season, I sat in Peden with students with bags on their heads during the "Heave Cleve" years Frank changed the Culture and will be at least Number 2 winningest coach in Ohio History. "Frank Solich Field"

As for Saul Phillips, Saul has made close to 3 million in 4 years for what ? a 67 & 60 record, a losing MAC Record, a last place finish in the MAC in his 4th season, If I'm not mistaken Saul will be in the last year of his 5 year contract, with no extension so looks like the writing might be on the wall. Its put up or hit the road for Saul Phillips this year.

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 11:47:57 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

If you're OK with a losing MAC record and a barely above .500 overall record on the back of a doughy non-con schedule, then I guess we have different standards.

Gman
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 11:58:03 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

If you're OK with a losing MAC record and a barely above .500 overall record on the back of a doughy non-con schedule, then I guess we have different standards.

+1 Amen Well said !!

SBH
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 12:29:19 PM

Grobe had at least one, and perhaps two, winning years. His final year in Athens, we were 7-4, I believe.

PalmerFest
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 1:35:07 PM

greencat wrote:

What about Thad Matta should an opening arise?

Gman
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 2:37:45 PM

SBH wrote:

Grobe had at least one, and perhaps two, winning years. His final year in Athens, we were 7-4, I believe.

You are correct SHB... Grobe had an overall record of 33 & 33 & 1 with a 27 & 20 & 1 MAC Record. Frank Solich went 40 & 36 plus a 30 & 18 MAC Record in his 1st 6 years with 2 East Titles and took Ohio to 3 Bowl Games.

1995- 2 & 8 & 1
1996- 6 & 6
1997- 8 & 3
1998- 5 & 6
1999- 5 & 6
2000- 7 & 4
Then Wake Forest came calling.

Last Edited: 5/29/2018 2:50:01 PM by Gman

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 3:33:48 PM

Gman wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

giacomo wrote:

You've completely missed the point. After four years, Frank was 23-27, and "frankly" trending downward. I'm not saying I don't think Frank has done a good job and should have something named after him. I'm glad he's our coach and I've defended him even through some of the very bitter disappointments that have dotted an otherwise good tenure.

I'm saying some of the vitriol towards Saul is really unwarranted. Suspicion? Disappointment? ok, but man, some of this is way out of line. I agree that things aren't rosy, but he certainly deserves a shot to rebound with a healthy roster. I think us finishing 2nd the year before after losing the POY was one of the best coaching jobs I've seen at Ohio in a long time. In a year and a half our three best players were gone (two to injury and one saw stars in his eyes) and our fourth best had a bum hip and rarely played at 100%. it's easy to say those are excuses, but those are just facts. If someone chopped off my fingers, I'd have a hell of time typing this right now, but that's just an excuse? Here, let me try...

xcder45uirudrjr

See, it's not as easy.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 3:34:27 PM

SBH wrote:

Grobe had at least one, and perhaps two, winning years. His final year in Athens, we were 7-4, I believe.

Yes, Grobe had an 8-3 (1997) and 7-4 year (2000)

Gman
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 4:22:05 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Gman wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

giacomo wrote:

You mean the POY that Saul didn't recruit ? You recruit to make a deep team Saul has failed to do so, That's why his recruits are transferring year after year, Just never figured that out with Saul, Players are good enough to come to Ohio but they are not good enough for Saul to give minutes to, so they leave. Ohio pays Saul Phillips for results injuries or not, Ohio has paid Saul almost 3 Million for a 67 & 60 record and a losing record in the MAC over his 4 years its uncalled for end of story.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 5:42:49 PM

Gman wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Gman wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

giacomo wrote:

it was his recruit that stepped in as a true freshman and saved the season

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/29/2018 7:09:06 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

What you're failing to consider is that Solich revived a corpse of a program. I'm not getting into a field-naming debate, but the team was coming off a four-year run of 11-35 football, empty stands and legitimate hopelessness.

Saul Phillips inherited a program that had gone 97-46 in the prior four years. It had won NCAA games. It regularly played on Saturday night in Cleveland. Schaus made him the highest-paid coach in the MAC to maintain that and it hasn't happened.

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I'm saying some of the vitriol towards Saul is really unwarranted.

Vitriol? Really? The nastiest thing I've seen on this board is disappointment and wishing the guy would do better.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 9:48:35 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

I disagree. Jim Grobe revived a corpse of a program. Do you think Solich takes a job at the program that Grobe took in 1995? Not a the slightest freaking chance in hell. Knorr hadn't won, but things hadn't been torn down and there were certainly signs of life including solid recruiting and attendance that had actually kept up fairly well through the losing. Recent stadium enhancements, permanent lights, new weight room, etc. What Solich inherited was a far far cry from the "corpse" of a decade earlier. He had a program to work from. Grobe had to beg just to get a strength coach.

What did Saul inherit? that Sweet 16 was old news to everyone but us. He had an incomplete roster whose best players were transfers and whose commitment to the program could best be described as questionable. You can talk about how the program was flying high all you want, but in mid major land, momentum is short lived. you think you're getting a glimpse and then you lose two coaches in three years. Forget about it. SP was starting over. Period.

All that said, I'm not thrilled with the overall level of recruiting. I'll grant that. I'd like to see some sexier names and not just because of how well Buffalo is doing right now. But people who say he's not bringing in ANY talent aren't really paying attention. and People who are judging everything based on Ellis Dozier are just being obtuse. Like every other MAC roster is full of first team talent 1-13 and we're the only ones filling out our bench. Like Christian, Groce, OShea and Hunter didn't have guys like that too. Give me a break. Again, you've watched the MAC before right? You've watched basketball at EVERY LEVEL before, right?

GoCats105
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 10:14:06 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Good point about the Knorr recruiting. Guys like Everson, Mayle, Muncy, and McRae were Knorr recruits.

GoCats105
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 10:19:23 AM

I've asked the question before and I'll pose it again:

What's the bare minimum season Ohio needs to have for this staff to be retained? In my opinion another season like last and they're gone. But what's it gonna take for the AD to give them another shot?

At least a MAC title game appearance?
25+ wins?
Regular season title?
NCAA Tournament or bust?

What if they win 27-30 games but don't win the MAC and miss out on a tournament berth? It would be hard to fire a staff after that kind of season.

Last Edited: 5/30/2018 10:21:15 AM by GoCats105

allen
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 10:31:28 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

I think at least 25 games and a trip to the MAC championship gets it done. The AD was so smart to not extend Saul, it shows that he understands stewardship. I think any AD would disagree with Saul�s recruiting philosophy. I remember him saying this spring that he was going to let everything shake out before he struck. You have to go out and get people, we did end up getting Cowart and Carter has surprised us. Let�s hope that he gets it done.

Last Edited: 5/30/2018 10:32:14 AM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

shabamon
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 11:26:57 AM

Bare minimum ought to be a bye from the tournament first round and at least 20 wins in the regular season. We've been a top 2 seed in seasons where there were hurdles to overcome (inexperienced in 2016, TC injury in 2017). Do it again with 13 healthy players including three that have received some sort of all-MAC accolade.

giacomo
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 12:18:49 PM

Here is the funny thing: if we do win 27 games and MAC title game appearance or win, the chances are he doesn't sign with us. A better job opens up and they snatch him.

greencat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/30/2018 12:41:34 PM

PalmerFest wrote:

greencat wrote:

What about Thad Matta should an opening arise?

If Matta turned down the U. of Georgia job, is he going to take a MAC job?

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