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Topic: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Topic: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

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Gman
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Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

Status: Offline

Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 3:23:14 PM

Injuries or not, its up to the Head Coach to recruit depth and Saul Phillips has failed that concept as Head Coach. After 4 yrs Phillips 67 & 60. Ohio went 14 & 17 this year and failed to make it to Cleveland which is totally uncalled for.

Fun Stat :
O'Shea's 4th yr - 21 & 11 record won MAC Tournament went to NCAA
Groce's 4th yr - 29 & 9 record won MAC Tournament went on to Sweet 16
Phillips 4th yr - 14 & 17 record didn't even make it to Cleveland.

Its time for Saul Phillips to stop talking the talk and start walking the walk.

100%Cat
General User

Member Since: 1/17/2013
Post Count: 2,490

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 3:36:27 PM

So if Groce had DJ Cooper transfer before that 4th season and Walt Offutt go down with a season ending injury before conference play, he had enough depth on that team to still win all those games?

Go away, troll.

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,320

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 4:10:31 PM

100%Cat wrote:

I agree with your point here, but I don't believe Gman is trying to be a troll in this case. I don't agree with the use of the "4th year stats", because each 4th year is completely different for each team/coach combination.

Doc Bobcat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 4,180

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 4:33:14 PM

Gman is a lot of things.....a troll ain�t one of them.

Gman
General User

Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 5:06:26 PM

100%Cat wrote:

TROLL !!! LMAO If If If you are doing a lot of Iffing,I'd say I was attending Ohio Basketball games while you was crappin in diapers, Its time we as Bobcat Fans face the fact Saul Phillips has been a failure. You all can sugar coat it if you want but its a Fact. I've watched more Ohio Basketball than most anyone here on this board, not many here can say they watched Ohio play in Grover Center, I can, Its time for Saul to put up or hit the road, When you are in the 4th year and all the players are your players, you shouldn't have a losing record. Injuries or not.

Kevin Finnegan
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Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,084

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 5:31:26 PM

Gman wrote:

100%Cat wrote:

Actually, GMAN, it's an opinion, not a fact. His record is 67-60, which is a winning percentage of .584. He's struggled, yes, but he's also had two 20 win seasons in four years. He finished 2nd in the division in his 2nd and 3rd seasons, and likely could've done similarly with good health last year. I'm not willing to go so far as to say he's been a success, but I think stating he's been a failure and that such a designation is fact is a bit extreme.

The statement that you shouldn't have a losing season in your 4th year because the players are your players doesn't hold water either. Check the following:

Mike Krzyzewski's 5th year at Army: 9-17....he was then hired that offseason to coach at Duke. Good thing for Duke they had faith, even when after his first three years, his record was 38-47.

Gman
General User

Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 6:05:01 PM

In today's world of coaching not the 70's or the 80's but today, Most new College Coaches that coach Football or Basketball are given 5 year Contracts, Usually if you don't produce after 4 years College AD's move on, that's the norm this day and age, 67 & 60 after 4 years and last in the MAC this year come on now. we deserve better.

The Better Ohio Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 3/28/2017
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 196

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 6:29:04 PM

Enough with the injury excuse.

colobobcat66
General User

Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
Post Count: 4,155

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 6:58:28 PM

Gman wrote:

100%Cat wrote:

Check out Jim Snyder who was 9-13 in his fourth year and 40-50 after 4 years at Ohio. It�s probably not good to make blanket statements.

Hey, you guys just fight it out. I�m looking forward to what the guys do this year.
Go Bobcats!

Last Edited: 5/22/2018 7:23:33 PM by colobobcat66

Gman
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Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 7:38:28 PM

Let's see hmmmmmm was Jim Snyder making over 2 Million total dollars over those 4 years ? NO ! Saul has made over 2 million in his 4 years for what ? a 67 and 60 record. Its a new era where you produce or be replaced. Do you all think Ohio has got 2 million worth out of Saul ? I for one right now say NO

Bobcat1996
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Member Since: 1/2/2017
Post Count: 794

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 8:03:02 PM

Gman- One CBI performance in four years is not what Bobcat fans expect. Ohio's record the past 4 years is something that Bobcat fans are not proud of. You are correct in saying that the salary being paid to our coach is a huge amount for the results. Hopefully the injuries are the primary reason, Ohio has struggled to do well. This could be the season that Ohio is injury free and makes a run in the MAC tournament?

Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 2,992

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/22/2018 9:45:57 PM

Gman wrote:

[QUOTE=100%Cat] TROLL !!! LMAO If If If you are doing a lot of Iffing,I'd say I was attending Ohio Basketball games while you was crappin in diapers....

And now you are on the internet calling a coach a failure and trading insults with other Bobcat fans. Impressive. (Sigh)

Last Edited: 5/22/2018 9:46:50 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Gman
General User

Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 12:02:51 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

Gman wrote:

[QUOTE=100%Cat] TROLL !!! LMAO If If If you are doing a lot of Iffing,I'd say I was attending Ohio Basketball games while you was crappin in diapers....

And now you are on the internet calling a coach a failure and trading insults with other Bobcat fans. Impressive. (Sigh)

And you have been a Saint in all of your 2519 Posts on here Ohio69 ? practice what you preach, Saul Phillips HAS been a FAILURE, you can slice it anyway you want, but getting paid over 2 Million dollars in 4 years for a 67 & 60 record and nothing to show for it, at a Mid-Major level is a big deal and a failure.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 12:15:59 AM

Gman, I've probably watch the Bobcats at least as long as you have, if not just a little bit longer, so I'm not one of the wet-behind-the-ears fans that you were referring to earlier. I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I think that the season-ending injuries to Campbell and then the following year to Carter have been devastating to the program. And, last year, we often had half the team in the walking wounded category. If either Campbell or Carter had not been injured, I think we would have won the MAC in the year they were injured. That's, of course, speculation, but I don't think we've yet seen how good Saul Ball can be. I'm betting this year you'll see complete turn around. If not, I'll be in your corner asking for a new coach, but until then I'm going to be my usual optimistic OHIO Bobcat fan. Go OHIO!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Buckeye to Bobcat
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Member Since: 9/10/2013
Post Count: 1,776

Status: Offline

RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 8:14:19 AM

I'm gonna say it like this.....was John Groce a good fit for Illinois? Yes he was, just unfortunate how many times the witch doctor hit his team in the ACL every year, in particular his point guard.

I'm looking at Saul and saying the same thing. By year 5-6, a program has his players and system in place. Jaaron was meant to hold the team over at point guard until this year when Saul could get a point guard. The guy wasn't a permanent fit and let's be real, how many of you could have called him turning into a stud for us? The fact that the process was sped up by one year with his move to Michigan makes it a different dynamic for the team. As I have said before and will say again, this is the year the criticism can start freely.

Is it the 21st Century of win in three years with the previous regime's players and hope you survive your job? Yes it is. Doesn't mean it has to happen to us. So let this year play out and then I will let the wolves freely eat. Until then, let's see what Kirk does this year in terms of his progression, because I feel pretty good about having Block, Dartis, Taylor, and Carter back to complement Kirk in his growth.

Maddog13
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Post Count: 597

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 8:14:44 AM

What a great country we live in, where fellow Bobcats (who can now be legally hunted according to Arkley of the Messenger) can agree to disagree, even though we all have what is in the best interests of Ohio at heart.

It seems pretty clear that Saul has at least another year at the helm of the Bobcats; after all, this is not pro basketball, where coaches get terminated regularly during the middle of the season.

However, Saul and company need to avoid some Cardinal Sins if he and company are going to be here much longer:

Number one: You are not allowed to go 14 - 17 and have the likes of Mount St. Mary, Coppin State, Prairie View A & M, and Northwestern Ohio on your schedule. (I would have included Capital too, but it was an exhibition game.)

Number 2: I don't care if Toledo has the next Lebron James, Michael Jordan, or Kobe Bryant on their roster and all at the same time; they are not allowed to come into the Convo and give the 'Cats a beat down in the form of a 91 to 57 loss.

Number 3: I don't care if Buffalo has an entire team full of Genetically engineered Cyborgs and force you to play them outside and in a raging blizzard and at one hundred degrees below zero; they are not allowed to give Ohio a 108 to 82 beat down, even if it was on their home court.

Number 4: It is never okay to be beaten by that despicable rival in Oxford (who will remain unnamed) in the first round of the MAC tournament, especially after you have already beaten them twice over the regular season.

Number 5: The only way that a losing record during the regular season in the MAC is even remotely okay (injuries or not) is if you sweep the MAC tournament, and at least make it to the Sweet Sixteen in the NCAA tournament.

Number 6: Either cease your daily coaching show or stop making excuses for bad performances whether they are injury plagued or not. You are the head coach, getting paid a lot of money, so take responsibility and start getting results.

I think that about covers it. Any other suggestions?

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 8:49:35 AM

Maddog13 wrote:

Yeah those sins about sum it up.

Gman
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Member Since: 5/16/2018
Post Count: 153

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 8:57:12 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

John Groce wasn't a good fit for Illinois, that's why he is coaching at Akron, John couldn't recruit good enough players to compete in the Big 10 and it cost him his job, Illinois wasn't going to pay Groce millions to be bottom feeders of the Big 10.

Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 9:00:55 AM

If Ohio could have afforded to buy out the contract, I'm sure he'd be gone. We're in a lame duck year, which is bad for everyone involved, but it's not going to change. The best-case scenario is that Saul pulls a rabbit out of the hat and has an amazing season. With Buffalo and Toledo clearly above us and Miami and other programs on the rise, that seems unlikely whether we're healthy or not. I hope it happens. If Saul and his family were jerks, very few people would be bending over backwards to defend a losing MAC record after four years. He's a great guy, so people want to fight for him, and I get that. But his record sucks and Ohio basketball is in a much worse place than it was four years ago. Those are facts. It'll be very surprising if he's in Athens next year.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 9:23:26 AM

Gman wrote:

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

If Groce's teams could have stayed healthy at point guard, then he would have been winning 20+ games, and was doing pretty good on the recruiting trail despite his precarious position.

100%Cat
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Member Since: 1/17/2013
Post Count: 2,490

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 9:28:20 AM

Gman wrote:

100%Cat wrote:

Age has never and will never be an indicator of intelligence. Idiots don't gain expertise with age, they just perfect their craft.

shabamon
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Member Since: 11/17/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 6,102

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 9:45:58 AM

I'm over here laughing at everyone who doesn't understand what a fact is.

longtiimelurker
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 10:40:31 AM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

Gman is a lot of things.....a troll ain�t one of them.

Is this our old, lovable Gman or someone who has taken the name?

greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,036

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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 10:45:21 AM

The real issue could possibly be instead of the track record of the four years under his belt here, the trajectory of future "talent" being recruited lately. These new ones will be the bulk of the roster in a couple of years unless they transfer to Walsh or Trevecca Nazarene. There are at least 3 new players arriving with a number of question marks. Maybe more than three. On paper, they don't seem like an upgrade over the 3 that just transferred out. If this is repeated next early signing period, it should be taken into consideration at the end of the season when analyzing whether to keep Saul or pick a new direction. Somewhere along the line, a MAC program has to get back to recruiting higher level talent or risk to become a long-time doormat in the conference.

And whether Saul snaps out of it and rebuilds the roster with higher talent or somebody else comes in and does it, there will be a season or two of unpleasant results, so if you think the students don't turn out now...

---------------------------------------------

The Saul club may now use this one post as a scapegoat to try to discredit legit concern for the direction of the program. Break out your torches and pitchforks as needed. Won't bother me.

Last Edited: 5/23/2018 10:49:25 AM by greencat

OU_Country
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RE: Is Saul Phillips really the right fit for Ohio ?

Posted: 5/23/2018 10:46:10 AM

100%Cat wrote:

Age has never and will never be an indicator of intelligence. Idiots don't gain expertise with age, they just perfect their craft.

This is a good one.

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