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Finally, are we making the most of the information provided to us from our well honed network of college basketball experts on BobcatAttack.com? . . . His answer to this question, without a doubt, will decide the ultimate fate of Saul Phillips at OHIO. In fact, I would suggest that you combine this question with the idea that Saul needs to look closely at his assistants, as was raised by another poster. Then if Saul's BB IQ is what it should be, he'll turn to BA and hire one of our experts as the next assistant coach in charge of basketball karma. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top left lane, hammer down General User Member Since: 3/25/2012 Location: Albany International Airport Tower Post Count: 135 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/6/2018 11:42:04 PM  Jeff McKinney wrote: Alan Swank wrote: There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time. Likely a lot of truth to this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What they said. I also have not seen an extension of Frank's contract posted. I suspect both contracts to be extended a week or so after graduation. Students gone, faculty on their "summer" schedule. Along with the fact that the AD has been away. Remember he is on the selection committee so I suspect he gets the best VIP seats in the house at the tournament games. Back to Top C Money General User Member Since: 8/28/2010 Post Count: 3,420 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 8:06:41 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: Then if Saul's BB IQ is what it should be, he'll turn to BA and hire one of our experts as the next assistant coach in charge of basketball karma. I read that as "Saul's BBQ" and thought I missed an announcement about a new restaurant in Athens. Back to Top Diamond Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 808 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 9:00:15 AM  Last year, from my view was a complete hall pass. You lose Carter for the year and Simmons trades a potential MPOTY for Season Tickets in Ann Arbor. He did have a great seat though! Next year - No hall pass from me. We are at an interesting time in Bobcat Basketball History. Students AWOL, games all available to stream and excitement hasn't been this low in my years as a Cat. Hopefully Smith keeps the baseball momentum going, Football kicks off with a big splash and a healthy hoops squad gets up back to where we belong. Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 9:57:15 AM  left lane, hammer down wrote: Jeff McKinney wrote: Alan Swank wrote: There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time. Likely a lot of truth to this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What they said. I also have not seen an extension of Frank's contract posted. I suspect both contracts to be extended a week or so after graduation. Students gone, faculty on their "summer" schedule. Frank is on a rolling year-to-year contract. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 10:07:47 AM  Maddog13 wrote: OU_Country wrote: bobcatsquared wrote: We have Saul for one more year, minimum. OK, what do you think needs to change under Saul to right the ship? Something he has control over? I'd start by looking at his assistants - does he have someone on his staff that can go into a star recruit's home and sell the Ohio basketball program? Someone more familiar with Ohio's coaching staff can answer this better than I can. Some on here, including myself, keep referring to the early to mid 1980s Bobcats and the coaching staff during this era. Does Saul have a Franny Fraschilla or Billy Hahn on this staff? This is a really, really good question that I would guess has to be part of the conversation between Saul & Schaus as things move forward. Is off-season conditioning up to par? Is there something about the current practices that are contributing to injuries? Are we adjusting our game plan to what we have or forcing the athletes to adjust to a system that does not promote their current strengths? How did we lose Simmons and how can we avoid something like this in the future? Are we recruiting the level of players needed to compete in the MAC? What does Ohio have to offer young athletes of today that other MAC schools don't have? Basketball practice facilities with a weight room at The Convo would help attract players. We haven't heard anything on it from the new president and likely may not with fiscal concerns on campus for anything recreation related. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 12:28:12 PM  greencat wrote: OU_Country wrote: Do you mind sharing some of this "data available in the world", which if we're talking recruiting, that indicates "the trajectory is on a steep downhill slope"? Glad to. This is comparing apples to apples, **MAC schools only. There is no reason to compare a MAC school to Kentucky or Duke in recruiting. Where is the incoming class ranked on these nationally known services? https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeTea... https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2018/midam/basketball https://www.scout.com/Season/2018-Basketball/TeamRankings... So am I correct that you're basing your "NAIA" complaints and declarations about one recruit solely on these kinds of rankings? Two of them only seem to be accounting for 3* and 4* recruits in thier rankings. They completely leave out every other player they don't put a 3* or 4* on. None of them, unless I'm missing something, rank the MAC as a whole. I'll easily concede UB has the best class this year and probably last year. After that, it's not as easy as these rankings suggest if they're leaving out 8 of 12 teams, and only ranking based on 3* or 4* players. Everyone has a several incoming recruits that aren't in that category. Plus, 3* rankings were given to Ellis Dozier, so is that a good measure to go by? Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,624 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 1:00:18 PM  The weasels are out for their feeding at the zoo. Back to Top mcbin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 949 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 1:36:24 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: greencat wrote: OhioStunter wrote: Alan Swank wrote: There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time. Maybe. Or maybe when Urban Meyer gets a bazillion dollar extension, an Saul extension might not seem so bad financially. Saul compared to Urban Meyer is like Nathan Springs is to LaMarcus Aldridge. Who the ***k is urban Meyer? https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2017/10/26/... Back to Top mcbin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 949 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 1:42:10 PM  For better or for worse, the news from the FOIA by Arkley, will make a few on here happy, but ultimately can only hurt Saul's chances at getting a good HS kid at this point. Not saying that it can't happen, but certainly won't help. Oh well. This news shouldn't affect getting a grad transfer, who only has one to play anyway. And on the flipside, maybe we need impact player(s) now anyway. We'll know soon. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 2:15:03 PM  left lane, hammer down wrote: . . . I suspect [Saul's contract] to be extended a week or so after graduation. Students gone, faculty on their "summer" schedule. . . . I think your statement above has a high probability of being true. Get ready for weeping and gnashing of teeth here when it occurs. Stand by . . . The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Chicken George General User Member Since: 1/2/2005 Post Count: 762 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 5:50:58 PM  Forgive me for chiming in again, when both I told myself I wouldn’t and I’m speaking with no experience on the topic other than “common sense,” which I was told doesn’t apply. Yet still…I will say that you can only control, what you can control. SP cannot control whether he has/hasn’t received an extension. What he can control is what he’s built in 4 years and whether that’s attractive to a potential recruit. Don’t ya kind of think that any recruit that gets even a hint of mature advice would know that a coach with this 4 year resume is on the ropes? Whether he’s got 1 year left, or 2, anyone giving advice knowing OHIO would know that if he doesn’t win ASAP, he ain’t going to be your coach for 4 years. Does not having an extension hurt SP and is it easy to blame others and use it as an excuse? Yes, I’m sure it doesn’t help and you can point figures. But the finger has to point back at the bed you made for yourself. Winners are attracted to winning programs, that have a positive vibe both around the program and in the arena. These things have nothing to do with a contract and we currently don’t have those to attract top guys who want to be a part of an upwardly trending program. A couple big years and obviously that changes things. But if you can’t afford to buy someone out and you never want to leave a coach on his last year, how do you ever move on? It is, what it is. Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,039 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 6:48:21 PM  Saul's lame duck year, if it actually comes to be, just got a little harder for him to navigate. Word out of Newark is that Jordan Dartis might be taking the 2018-19 season off. Jordie recently had surgery on one hip, will wait about 6 weeks before surgery on the other, and is considering taking a redshirt next winter. Back to Top bn9 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 422 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 7:47:31 PM  bobcatsquared wrote: Saul's lame duck year, if it actually comes to be, just got a little harder for him to navigate. Word out of Newark is that Jordan Dartis might be taking the 2018-19 season off. Jordie recently had surgery on one hip, will wait about 6 weeks before surgery on the other, and is considering taking a redshirt next winter. Well, crap. Hope he gets everything taken care of and comes back strong and healthy. Back to Top Buckeye to Bobcat General User Member Since: 9/10/2013 Post Count: 1,776 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 8:49:19 PM  bn9 wrote: bobcatsquared wrote: Saul's lame duck year, if it actually comes to be, just got a little harder for him to navigate. Word out of Newark is that Jordan Dartis might be taking the 2018-19 season off. Jordie recently had surgery on one hip, will wait about 6 weeks before surgery on the other, and is considering taking a redshirt next winter. Well, crap. Hope he gets everything taken care of and comes back strong and healthy. The worst part is he would then be eligible to grad transfer at that point if he does take the redshirt......woof Back to Top BobcatSports General User Member Since: 2/2/2006 Post Count: 1,068 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/7/2018 9:48:05 PM  Dartis not being able to play next year would not surprise me. IF the hips are that bad it would give one pause as to whether his career is effectively over. That game at Miami where he literally had to be scraped off the floor was just painful to witness. I have doubts as to the longevity of Carter’s health as well. Freakish foot injuries can be real career Enders as well. With Saul’s luck? Back to Top GraffZ06 General User Member Since: 1/5/2005 Location: Dayton, OH Post Count: 1,907 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/8/2018 12:50:14 AM  So if Dartis can't go next year - and without him let's assume we don't make a MAC finals/NCAA tourney run - then there's a distinct possibility SP is not retained. Would Darty come back to OU for his redshirt senior year with a new coach? Or, does he grad transfer? Or does he just hang em up, graduate and move on with his life? Why do I feel like option 3 might be realistic. We MIGHT HAVE (let's hope not) seen the last of Mr. Dartis as a Bobcat. FWIW we really REALLY need guard help now. We basically only have 3 on the roster for next year: Kirk, Gollon and Murrell (and kinda Block in a pinch). Makes me hope for Yahel Hill and Antonio Cowart Jr (along with Christian Guess as another wing). Back to Top Pataskala General User Member Since: 7/8/2010 Location: At least six feet away from anybody else Post Count: 9,152 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/8/2018 4:42:58 PM  Dartis has to look at his long-term health issues first. Hip injuries can be particularly troublesome because they often aren't easily fixed. When I was a kid I had a hip that kept popping out. After several chiropractic treatments I was told that the next time it popped out it would have to be replaced. It really limited what I could do in sports. Of course, that was in the '60s and things are a lot different these days. But it seems like athletes who get hip injuries never seem to truly shake them. We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,047 Status: Online     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/8/2018 8:33:01 PM  OU_Country wrote: greencat wrote: OU_Country wrote: Do you mind sharing some of this "data available in the world", which if we're talking recruiting, that indicates "the trajectory is on a steep downhill slope"? Glad to. This is comparing apples to apples, **MAC schools only. There is no reason to compare a MAC school to Kentucky or Duke in recruiting. Where is the incoming class ranked on these nationally known services? https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeTea... https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2018/midam/basketball https://www.scout.com/Season/2018-Basketball/TeamRankings... .... I'll easily concede UB has the best class this year and probably last year.... etc etc etc ... Plus, 3* rankings were given to Ellis Dozier, so is that a good measure to go by? Actually none of the three major ranking services (scout, rivals, 247) ranked Ellis D. at all... not even as a 2 star... not that I could find, anyway. Now that I posted links to respected national recruiting services to back up my theory, what do you have besides pollyanna, pie-in-the-sky, anecdotal nonsense to back up for example, that Springs is anything above NAIA or D-3? Why did even small colleges in North Carolina not offer right there in his home state? What about Brevard College in North Carolina with an enrollment of 729? They went 4-18 last season... why would they pass on him? What about Mars Hill? They went 4-24 last season. How about some links to all-state teams in N.C. he was named to? All-district even? Last Edited: 4/8/2018 8:33:43 PM by greencat Back to Top Bobcat Debate 73 General User Member Since: 11/26/2007 Post Count: 204 Status: Offline     OHIO would be very sortsighited in not going all in on Saul! Those who    Posted: 4/8/2018 8:34:15 PM  demand Immediate gratification result in bad results and mistakes! OHIO deserves character, experience, quality! We have that in Saul! Please extend! Back to Top Bobcat Debate 73 General User Member Since: 11/26/2007 Post Count: 204 Status: Offline     Want quality, want success, want character, extend Saul! (NT)    Posted: 4/8/2018 8:41:00 PM  Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 3,283 Status: Offline     RE: Want quality, want success, want character, extend Saul!    Posted: 4/8/2018 10:03:30 PM  Question: what's our graduation rate look like under Saul? Have players stayed out of trouble? If I recall, at least one of those things has been an issue under previous regimes. Those should not be insignificant factors. Also, losing full seasons from both Campbell and Carter is tough. Throw in the Simmons transfer, and it's hard to expect on-the-floor success given the minutes lost. Barring a disaster of a season next year, I'd probably lean towards an extension. Especially if the new administration isn't willing to go out and pay at the same level we did when Saul was hired. If the options are extend Saul and keep ponying up for basketball or let Saul go and try to make a hire at a 30% discount I'd prefer Saul. If nothing else, Saul's shown that he can put together highly seeded teams in the MAC. Two #2 seeds, given the bad luck, is nothing to sneeze at. Back to Top OUs LONG Driver General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Copley, OH Post Count: 653 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/8/2018 10:11:48 PM  greencat wrote: OU_Country wrote: greencat wrote: OU_Country wrote: Do you mind sharing some of this "data available in the world", which if we're talking recruiting, that indicates "the trajectory is on a steep downhill slope"? Glad to. This is comparing apples to apples, **MAC schools only. There is no reason to compare a MAC school to Kentucky or Duke in recruiting. Where is the incoming class ranked on these nationally known services? https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeTea... https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2018/midam/basketball https://www.scout.com/Season/2018-Basketball/TeamRankings... .... I'll easily concede UB has the best class this year and probably last year.... etc etc etc ... Plus, 3* rankings were given to Ellis Dozier, so is that a good measure to go by? Actually none of the three major ranking services (scout, rivals, 247) ranked Ellis D. at all... not even as a 2 star... not that I could find, anyway. Now that I posted links to respected national recruiting services to back up my theory, what do you have besides pollyanna, pie-in-the-sky, anecdotal nonsense to back up for example, that Springs is anything above NAIA or D-3? Why did even small colleges in North Carolina not offer right there in his home state? What about Brevard College in North Carolina with an enrollment of 729? They went 4-18 last season... why would they pass on him? What about Mars Hill? They went 4-24 last season. How about some links to all-state teams in N.C. he was named to? All-district even? Verbal Commits shows Dozier with a 3 Star ranking from ESPN. ESPN's page has a detailed analysis on him that now seems as far from accurate as possible. Doug Taylor & AJ Gareri are the only other guys on the roster to have been ranked by any service (ESPN). Recruiting rankings beyond the very top guys are completely worthless. Dozier, Taylor, & Gareri....or Dartis, Laster, & Carter? You're looking for offers from D-III & NAIA schools? Ever think the recruiting services don't bother listing them? I don't recall seeing a Non D-I offer listed for any basketball recruit. After watching Springs' most recent highlight video it sure seems like there's a lot of potential there. Shooting 3's, running the floor, finishing above the rim, blocking shots, passing out of the post. What exactly isn't to like there besides that he is thin? He would be the ideal candidate for a redshirt if we're healthy enough to allow it so he can add bulk. Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 6,913 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/9/2018 7:46:31 AM  greencat wrote: OU_Country wrote: greencat wrote: OU_Country wrote: Do you mind sharing some of this "data available in the world", which if we're talking recruiting, that indicates "the trajectory is on a steep downhill slope"? Glad to. This is comparing apples to apples, **MAC schools only. There is no reason to compare a MAC school to Kentucky or Duke in recruiting. Where is the incoming class ranked on these nationally known services? https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeTea... https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2018/midam/basketball https://www.scout.com/Season/2018-Basketball/TeamRankings... .... I'll easily concede UB has the best class this year and probably last year.... etc etc etc ... Plus, 3* rankings were given to Ellis Dozier, so is that a good measure to go by? Actually none of the three major ranking services (scout, rivals, 247) ranked Ellis D. at all... not even as a 2 star... not that I could find, anyway. Now that I posted links to respected national recruiting services to back up my theory, what do you have besides pollyanna, pie-in-the-sky, anecdotal nonsense to back up for example, that Springs is anything above NAIA or D-3? Why did even small colleges in North Carolina not offer right there in his home state? What about Brevard College in North Carolina with an enrollment of 729? They went 4-18 last season... why would they pass on him? What about Mars Hill? They went 4-24 last season. How about some links to all-state teams in N.C. he was named to? All-district even? I don't think anyone is expecting Springs to come in here and be a world beater from day one, which is why the staff wants to go get another JUCO or Grad Transfer with the last two schollies. He is a project, 100%. There is raw potential, length and height. And the guy can shoot from distance. You don't find that every day for a guy his size. Also, from what I've read he's only been playing basketball since 9th grade. So there's POSSIBLY a lot of untapped skill that nobody has seen. Whether or not the staff can unlock it? Who knows. Give the guy a redshirt, bulk him up, teach him some post skills along with some pick and pop...see what happens. Once again, I'm gonna believe the staff has better eyes for recruiting than we on this board do. They whiffed big time with Dozier and even they would probably admit that. And really? Why is Springs your biggest issue? With the news that we just found out about Jordan Dartis, shouldn't that be the BIG problem? I'm more concerned about that than anything else. That makes getting this JUCO or Grad Transfer even more important. Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended    Posted: 4/9/2018 8:27:21 AM  giacomo wrote: The weasels are out for their feeding at the zoo. This kind of ad hominem attack is a really lazy and unfair way to argue, and you're one of several people to employ it in this thread. There are valid positions on both sides of this issue, and for the most part people have been presenting them without a whole lot of rancor. That some people disagree with you does not make them animals. 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