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Topic:  Has Saul Lost The Team?

Topic:  Has Saul Lost The Team?
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 8:39:24 PM 
I was really surprised to see a few people on this board confident that we'd beat Toledo at home. I posted in another thread after the Kent State game that we are looking at 1-8 or 2-7 to start the MAC schedule. I'd really love to know where the wins are coming from in the next two weeks?

The bigger question I have right now is this: Has Saul lost the team? This program has reached one of its lowest points in school history. Injuries can't be used as an excuse anymore. With or without Jason Carter, you can't lose by 34 point at home to Toledo. I've never seen so many airballs and missed layups in my life.

This program went to the Sweet 16 in 2012. 6 years later, our program has now been surpassed by Miami (OH) and somewhere near 250 in the RPI. Let that sink in for awhile. Barring an NCAA appearance in 2019, the #SaulBallEra is over in 14 months. The product is atrocious and it starts with Saul.

Last Edited: 1/16/2018 8:40:52 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 8:40:49 PM 
I would say, "yes." Whatever the game plan is, it is not working.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 8:47:28 PM 
Don't jump ship yet as Saul has his top player hurt and others banged up also. Hopefully some of the hurt players will be healthy next fall.

Last Edited: 1/16/2018 8:48:02 PM by Bobcat1996

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bostonbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 8:49:51 PM 
I'm having flashbacks to 1997-98 with this group.
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LuckySparrow
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Location: Illinois
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 8:52:24 PM 
Eh... I don't think so. We're just injured, young, and bad right now.


What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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Townie1977
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 8:57:27 PM 
6 years removed from the Sweet 16 and it will take multiple years to recover. The team is lost, the system is stale and the player effort and development is a joke. I assume this has to be the worst home MAC loss in the history of the program. This is an accountability issue. Accountability starts at the top. The "Buddy Leadership" this regime has employed is old. The radio interviews are not funny, the answers are empty, and I don't believe this staff has the tools and/or vision to right this. 14 months.....
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:05:54 PM 
I don't know if he has lost the team or not. I do know he is paid (very well) to get us out of the depth we are in and back on track - injuries or not. I'm not simply talking W/L. They showed their heart in Cherleston - he needs to get that back - THAT is on him.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:15:23 PM 
We lost our first Mac game on the road by 25 and then we lose this game by 34. I don’t have a lot of hope in #Saulball. If this season goes how it has so far I wouldn’t be surprised if he is gone after this year.
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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:30:03 PM 
The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:
We lost our first Mac game on the road by 25 and then we lose this game by 34. I don’t have a lot of hope in #Saulball. If this season goes how it has so far I wouldn’t be surprised if he is gone after this year.


Unless you have the salary to pay a new coach, we're in for a lame duck year.
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:42:13 PM 
Did Saul ever really have this program? We all like to say "Saul Ball" but what exactly is "Saul Ball?" I think he's a nice guy. I think he is a good person. I think he probably knows his stuff. But what is his vision? In year 1 we gave him a pass and said that it was a bunch of bad apples. In year 2 we get to see Tone come into his own and a great leader in Treg combining with Kaminski (once again, a great guy but how does he fit into Saul Ball?). And of course Jaaron has an amazing first year.

Year 3 we get Jaaron dribbling for 25 seconds and no player development. Dartis, Taylor and Block have been in the program playing major minutes for THREE YEARS. Gollon is in year 3 and so is Dozier. No improvement from any of those guys. We get Mickle in and he seemingly does not fit our program at all. Once again...nice guy, nice athleticism but how does he FIT? I would wonder if we should have found a diamond in the rough freshman rather than him. And look at next year's class. So McMurray seems like a "find." Murrell can't even get court time on a JUCO. Springs scores 20 one game and three the next. If you look at who we were interested in and lost out on that is also telling. I am not excited about next year's trio and don't know if Vander Plas will ever play.

I fell for the smile. I fell for the "aw shucks" stuff and I fell for the Wisconsin accent. I fell for the "I am going to stay here until my daughter graduates high school" stuff. But in year 4, injuries or no injuries, transfers or no transfers, we are not getting better while programs like Ball State, Buffalo and Toledo are getting much better.

Last Edited: 1/16/2018 9:44:25 PM by Bobcat1998

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:43:48 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:
We lost our first Mac game on the road by 25 and then we lose this game by 34. I don’t have a lot of hope in #Saulball. If this season goes how it has so far I wouldn’t be surprised if he is gone after this year.


Unless you have the salary to pay a new coach, we're in for a lame duck year.


Which make recruiting very very difficult.

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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:47:15 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Did Saul ever really have this program? We all like to say "Saul Ball" but what exactly is "Saul Ball?" I think he's a nice guy. I think he is a good person. I think he probably knows his stuff. But what is his vision? In year 1 we gave him a pass and said that it was a bunch of bad apples. In year 2 we get to see Tone come into his own and a great leader in Treg combining with Kaminski (once again, a great guy but how does he fit into Saul Ball?). And of course Jaaron has an amazing first year.

Year 3 we get Jaaron dribbling for 25 seconds and no player development. Dartis, Taylor and Block have been in the program playing major minutes for THREE YEARS. Gollon is in year 3 and so is Dozier. No improvement from any of those guys. We get Mickle in and he seemingly does not fit our program at all. Once again...nice guy, nice athleticism but how does he FIT? I would wonder if we should have found a diamond in the rough freshman rather than him. And look at next year's class. So McMurray seems like a "find." Murrell can't even get court time on a JUCO. Springs scores 20 one game and three the next. If you look at who we were interested in and lost out on that is also telling. I am not excited about next year's trio and don't know if Vander Plas will ever play.

I fell for the smile. I fell for the "aw shucks" stuff and I fell for the Wisconsin accent. I fell for the "I am going to stay here until my daughter graduates high school" stuff. But in year 4, injuries or no injuries, transfers or no transfers, we are not getting better while programs like Ball State, Buffalo and Toledo are getting much better.


It feels bad to endorse this view, but I do. He's an enormously good person with what by all accounts seems to be a great family, but we are not paying a top-tier salary for these results. I also don't see a lot of hope on the horizon this year or next.

Last Edited: 1/16/2018 9:48:19 PM by Recovering Journalist

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lovebobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 9:57:40 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
I was really surprised to see a few people on this board confident that we'd beat Toledo at home. I posted in another thread after the Kent State game that we are looking at 1-8 or 2-7 to start the MAC schedule. I'd really love to know where the wins are coming from in the next two weeks?


What's immediately ahead: Five of the next eight games are on the road. And of the three home games, two come against Buffalo and the CMU team that beat us by 25. The only other game? The potential indignity of losing at home to Groce.

If the sky has fallen, it may be about to fall even further.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:26:27 PM 
What all of you are forgetting is if Tony doesn't get hurt last year we likely win the MAC and possibly win a game or two in the NCAA tourney. Then Simons leaves and we lose Carter. Look in the mirror before you throw stones at Saul.
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FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,089

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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:30:38 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Did Saul ever really have this program? We all like to say "Saul Ball" but what exactly is "Saul Ball?" I think he's a nice guy. I think he is a good person. I think he probably knows his stuff. But what is his vision? In year 1 we gave him a pass and said that it was a bunch of bad apples. In year 2 we get to see Tone come into his own and a great leader in Treg combining with Kaminski (once again, a great guy but how does he fit into Saul Ball?). And of course Jaaron has an amazing first year.

Year 3 we get Jaaron dribbling for 25 seconds and no player development. Dartis, Taylor and Block have been in the program playing major minutes for THREE YEARS. Gollon is in year 3 and so is Dozier. No improvement from any of those guys. We get Mickle in and he seemingly does not fit our program at all. Once again...nice guy, nice athleticism but how does he FIT? I would wonder if we should have found a diamond in the rough freshman rather than him. And look at next year's class. So McMurray seems like a "find." Murrell can't even get court time on a JUCO. Springs scores 20 one game and three the next. If you look at who we were interested in and lost out on that is also telling. I am not excited about next year's trio and don't know if Vander Plas will ever play.

I fell for the smile. I fell for the "aw shucks" stuff and I fell for the Wisconsin accent. I fell for the "I am going to stay here until my daughter graduates high school" stuff. But in year 4, injuries or no injuries, transfers or no transfers, we are not getting better while programs like Ball State, Buffalo and Toledo are getting much better.


This..,all of this^^**. You break down the talent on this roster and you really start to question player development and MAC caliber readiness coming in.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:31:52 PM 
To change the mood up here, can anyone tell me where I can get some OHIO shorts like Doug was wearing tonight? Those were sweet!
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:35:47 PM 
giacomo wrote:
What all of you are forgetting is if Tony doesn't get hurt last year we likely win the MAC and possibly win a game or two in the NCAA tourney. . . Look in the mirror before you throw stones at Saul.


+1


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:40:39 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
giacomo wrote:
What all of you are forgetting is if Tony doesn't get hurt last year we likely win the MAC and possibly win a game or two in the NCAA tourney. . . Look in the mirror before you throw stones at Saul.


+1



If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle as well.
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:46:11 PM 
giacomo wrote:
What all of you are forgetting is if Tony doesn't get hurt last year we likely win the MAC and possibly win a game or two in the NCAA tourney. Then Simons leaves and we lose Carter. Look in the mirror before you throw stones at Saul.


What does it even mean to "look in the mirror"?

If, if, if, if. That gets us really far.

How about these ifs? If anyone was paying attention, they knew Simmons was a serious flight risk during last season. If Saul recruited better, our entire team wouldn't have to rely on one guy to be the difference between being abominable and supposedly being good. We'd have every healthy scholarship player putting in good minutes and being very solid or better by MAC standards. We're not even close to that. Jason Carter could come back and pour in his 9.9 PPG (yup, that's the 2016-2017 figure we're hanging our collective hats on!) and it wouldn't solve the fundamental problems here. The program is backsliding and some of you are in denial about it.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:49:28 PM 
Saul Ball apparently is living and dying by 3s. We shoot nearly as many 3s as 2s. When it works we're at least in games (26 of 57 vs NIU, BSU & Kent). When it doesn't we have nights like tonight (6 of 35 vs CMU & Toledo). When it doesn't the defense has to ramp up. But we seem more focused on simply outscoring the other guy instead of stopping him from scoring. We're not good enough defensively to have it carry us when we sputter on offense.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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OUAlum85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/16/2018 10:57:03 PM 
Even if he hasn’t yet lost the team, he has clearly lost me.....when apathy sets in, your issues become far greater than one individual....The time for Saul to go is now!..... 14 months from now and there may be nothing left to recover from.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/17/2018 7:37:53 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
giacomo wrote:
What all of you are forgetting is if Tony doesn't get hurt last year we likely win the MAC and possibly win a game or two in the NCAA tourney. Then Simons leaves and we lose Carter. Look in the mirror before you throw stones at Saul.


What does it even mean to "look in the mirror"?

If, if, if, if. That gets us really far.

How about these ifs? If anyone was paying attention, they knew Simmons was a serious flight risk during last season. If Saul recruited better, our entire team wouldn't have to rely on one guy to be the difference between being abominable and supposedly being good. We'd have every healthy scholarship player putting in good minutes and being very solid or better by MAC standards. We're not even close to that. Jason Carter could come back and pour in his 9.9 PPG (yup, that's the 2016-2017 figure we're hanging our collective hats on!) and it wouldn't solve the fundamental problems here. The program is backsliding and some of you are in denial about it.


If you really think Jason Carter was only going to average 9.9 PPG this season, well than that's your opinion. And yes, one player isn't going to solve everything, but having him would make a helluva difference.

I've been a defender of Saul and this team from Day 1 simply because the adversity and attrition they've dealt with in the last 12 months is something like I've never seen. They've basically lost their three best players in 12 months when you think about it (Tone, Jaaron and Jason).

But...you simply cannot continue to get beat like you stole something. Seriously? Toledo is nowhere near as good as they have been recently and they just tuned us up for 30+ on our home floor. That shouldn't ever happen.

I don't know what the answer is. I'm just frustrated watching this team, because it's a completely different team than the one we saw earlier in the year. The team just looks like they've used all the juice they had. Like they found out Jason wasn't coming back for good and are just deflated.

The bigger problem though is I don't see any ways of trying to mix things up. Sure, the rotations have been different...some guys are getting more playing time than they were before, but it just looks and feels like they are going through the motions out there. The offense doesn't make the opposing defense work for any stops. And that in turn makes our defense awful because they spend more time on that end of the floor back peddling.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/17/2018 7:38:57 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
To change the mood up here, can anyone tell me where I can get some OHIO shorts like Doug was wearing tonight? Those were sweet!


It looked to me like he was wearing a 2nd pair of shorts underneath his game shorts. They looked like they had orange on them, but then again I'm somewhat color blind.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/17/2018 7:50:04 AM 
For those of you who attended the game, what was the actual attendance? From the photo in The Post, I could not see many fans.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Has Saul Lost The Team?
   Posted: 1/17/2018 7:59:05 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
To change the mood up here, can anyone tell me where I can get some OHIO shorts like Doug was wearing tonight? Those were sweet!


It looked to me like he was wearing a 2nd pair of shorts underneath his game shorts. They looked like they had orange on them, but then again I'm somewhat color blind.


My family won the courtside seat upgrade last night (that we had to ditch at halftime because our toddler wanted to play on the court). I heard the ref ask Doug to change his orange "under shorts" (is that a thing?) at half time.
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