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Topic:  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday

Topic:  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/19/2017 11:58:48 AM 
Sounds like we won't have a healthy roster until February after these guys go through rehab. Anything before that would seem to be a bonus.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/19/2017 2:27:57 PM 
Sounds like we need a new/better strength and conditioning program and/or some new/better trainers and dieticians.

Also seems to me Saul's philosophy of recruiting fringe athletes with niche talents who fit his style may need some tweaking. If guys physically can't stay healthy (and it's not 1 or 2 - but an issue for multiple players over multiple years now) then you've got to start looking at root causes.

I'm all for role players, but if you're asking them to do things beyond what their body might be capable of on a nightly basis - your probability of injury goes up significantly. It's like - who gets injured in middle school gym while playing dodgeball? It's not the athletes. It's the kid in the glasses with two left feet who's trying really hard.

Obviously until we get healthy this team is going to struggle mightily. I just worry in the bigger picture that our teams are going to continue to have health issues, and thus continue to struggle, until we address the above.

Last Edited: 11/19/2017 2:29:51 PM by GraffZ06

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/19/2017 9:54:29 PM 
I wish we could have him back for Iona. Will the real Ellis Dozier please stand up?


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/19/2017 9:58:29 PM 
Does basketball really put so much stress on a college athlete's body that it causes injury? I can understand in football where if you're matched up against a stronger opponent, he can contort your body in ways it's not supposed to. I would think in basketball, injuries are more freak occurrences than they are due to lack of strength.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/19/2017 10:45:09 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Does basketball really put so much stress on a college athlete's body that it causes injury? I can understand in football where if you're matched up against a stronger opponent, he can contort your body in ways it's not supposed to. I would think in basketball, injuries are more freak occurrences than they are due to lack of strength.


At this level there is a lot more stress and pounding than you think, especially for bigs who do not have big natural bodies or have not developed muscular structure for their size.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/19/2017 10:53:22 PM 
shabamon wrote:
Does basketball really put so much stress on a college athlete's body that it causes injury? I can understand in football where if you're matched up against a stronger opponent, he can contort your body in ways it's not supposed to. I would think in basketball, injuries are more freak occurrences than they are due to lack of strength.


Yeah......because it is strictly a NON contact sport. (echoes of fans yelling "let em play" in my ears)


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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BuddyLee
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/20/2017 6:48:16 PM 
So I missed it, how bad is Mickle’s injury???
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/20/2017 9:34:43 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sounds like we need a new/better strength and conditioning program and/or some new/better trainers and dieticians.

Also seems to me Saul's philosophy of recruiting fringe athletes with niche talents who fit his style may need some tweaking. If guys physically can't stay healthy (and it's not 1 or 2 - but an issue for multiple players over multiple years now) then you've got to start looking at root causes.

I'm all for role players, but if you're asking them to do things beyond what their body might be capable of on a nightly basis - your probability of injury goes up significantly. It's like - who gets injured in middle school gym while playing dodgeball? It's not the athletes. It's the kid in the glasses with two left feet who's trying really hard.

Obviously until we get healthy this team is going to struggle mightily. I just worry in the bigger picture that our teams are going to continue to have health issues, and thus continue to struggle, until we address the above.


I don't think this is the problem.

An issue that doesn't get discussed much: kids getting injured-- or else the stage being set for later injuries--during HS with training practices that may be flat out wrong. Then these injuries show up as college freshmen.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/21/2017 10:41:48 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sounds like we need a new/better strength and conditioning program and/or some new/better trainers and dieticians.

Also seems to me Saul's philosophy of recruiting fringe athletes with niche talents who fit his style may need some tweaking. If guys physically can't stay healthy (and it's not 1 or 2 - but an issue for multiple players over multiple years now) then you've got to start looking at root causes.

I'm all for role players, but if you're asking them to do things beyond what their body might be capable of on a nightly basis - your probability of injury goes up significantly. It's like - who gets injured in middle school gym while playing dodgeball? It's not the athletes. It's the kid in the glasses with two left feet who's trying really hard.

Obviously until we get healthy this team is going to struggle mightily. I just worry in the bigger picture that our teams are going to continue to have health issues, and thus continue to struggle, until we address the above.


I don't think this is the problem.

An issue that doesn't get discussed much: kids getting injured-- or else the stage being set for later injuries--during HS with training practices that may be flat out wrong. Then these injuries show up as college freshmen.



Or the fact that these kids go year round playing AAU, High School, training sessions, etc. while their bodies may just not be mature enough to handle the pounding.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/21/2017 10:52:07 AM 
Right.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/21/2017 10:58:06 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sounds like we need a new/better strength and conditioning program and/or some new/better trainers and dieticians.

Also seems to me Saul's philosophy of recruiting fringe athletes with niche talents who fit his style may need some tweaking. If guys physically can't stay healthy (and it's not 1 or 2 - but an issue for multiple players over multiple years now) then you've got to start looking at root causes.

I'm all for role players, but if you're asking them to do things beyond what their body might be capable of on a nightly basis - your probability of injury goes up significantly. It's like - who gets injured in middle school gym while playing dodgeball? It's not the athletes. It's the kid in the glasses with two left feet who's trying really hard.

Obviously until we get healthy this team is going to struggle mightily. I just worry in the bigger picture that our teams are going to continue to have health issues, and thus continue to struggle, until we address the above.


I don't think this is the problem.

An issue that doesn't get discussed much: kids getting injured-- or else the stage being set for later injuries--during HS with training practices that may be flat out wrong. Then these injuries show up as college freshmen.



Or the fact that these kids go year round playing AAU, High School, training sessions, etc. while their bodies may just not be mature enough to handle the pounding.


One of my college professors had an interesting theory on this. He thinks that more injuries are happening now because kids are becoming too specialized in sports at a young age. Rarely do you see a three-sport athlete anymore, because at some point the kid is told they need to decide on which one will take them places.

Anyway, you use a different skill set for your body in different sports. So he always had the thought that kids' bodies get too complacent when doing the same motions over and over again. And when something new is introduced, the body can't react properly and injuries happen.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/21/2017 1:43:03 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sounds like we need a new/better strength and conditioning program and/or some new/better trainers and dieticians.

Also seems to me Saul's philosophy of recruiting fringe athletes with niche talents who fit his style may need some tweaking. If guys physically can't stay healthy (and it's not 1 or 2 - but an issue for multiple players over multiple years now) then you've got to start looking at root causes.

I'm all for role players, but if you're asking them to do things beyond what their body might be capable of on a nightly basis - your probability of injury goes up significantly. It's like - who gets injured in middle school gym while playing dodgeball? It's not the athletes. It's the kid in the glasses with two left feet who's trying really hard.

Obviously until we get healthy this team is going to struggle mightily. I just worry in the bigger picture that our teams are going to continue to have health issues, and thus continue to struggle, until we address the above.


I don't think this is the problem.

An issue that doesn't get discussed much: kids getting injured-- or else the stage being set for later injuries--during HS with training practices that may be flat out wrong. Then these injuries show up as college freshmen.



Or the fact that these kids go year round playing AAU, High School, training sessions, etc. while their bodies may just not be mature enough to handle the pounding.


One of my college professors had an interesting theory on this. He thinks that more injuries are happening now because kids are becoming too specialized in sports at a young age. Rarely do you see a three-sport athlete anymore, because at some point the kid is told they need to decide on which one will take them places.

Anyway, you use a different skill set for your body in different sports. So he always had the thought that kids' bodies get too complacent when doing the same motions over and over again. And when something new is introduced, the body can't react properly and injuries happen.



There is definitely research that points towards this effect.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/21/2017 3:13:12 PM 
Not to take this too far off topic, I just read that phenom Michael Porter, Jr. is out for the season (back surgery) after giving Missouri two minutes of playing time. Ouch.
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ou1982
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/21/2017 5:49:16 PM 


One of my college professors had an interesting theory on this. He thinks that more injuries are happening now because kids are becoming too specialized in sports at a young age. Rarely do you see a three-sport athlete anymore, because at some point the kid is told they need to decide on which one will take them places.

Anyway, you use a different skill set for your body in different sports. So he always had the thought that kids' bodies get too complacent when doing the same motions over and over again. And when something new is introduced, the body can't react properly and injuries happen.

[/QUOTE]

my old junior high football coach was on earl bruce's staff in columbus. he said they always wanted their recruits playing at least two spots because of the muscle group issue with different sports working different muscles. if it came down to a player who played one sport and a player who played two or three for a scholly and they were equal over the rest of the criteria, they normally picked the kid who played multiple sports.


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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/22/2017 9:40:12 AM 
ou1982 wrote:


my old junior high football coach was on earl bruce's staff in columbus. he said they always wanted their recruits playing at least two spots because of the muscle group issue with different sports working different muscles. if it came down to a player who played one sport and a player who played two or three for a scholly and they were equal over the rest of the criteria, they normally picked the kid who played multiple sports.




The problem is that that's not the mindset anymore. At least around here even the high schools are now playing year round. They have their regular season with the school then Spring, Summer and Fall seasons with teams that are considered travel teams but are made up exclusively of kids from that school. They play in the "AAU" circuit around here in the Spring and Fall and the HS Summer Leagues. The Juniors and most Sophomores play on the "varsity" teams in the three seasons. Freshman and incoming 8th graders play on the "JV" teams. You can play other sports but you better be darned good because a kid who doesn't play other sports may jump up and take your spot. Tryouts now aren't really tryouts because the coaches already know all the kids very well.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/22/2017 10:41:35 PM 
OUVan wrote:
ou1982 wrote:


my old junior high football coach was on earl bruce's staff in columbus. he said they always wanted their recruits playing at least two spots because of the muscle group issue with different sports working different muscles. if it came down to a player who played one sport and a player who played two or three for a scholly and they were equal over the rest of the criteria, they normally picked the kid who played multiple sports.




The problem is that that's not the mindset anymore. At least around here even the high schools are now playing year round. They have their regular season with the school then Spring, Summer and Fall seasons with teams that are considered travel teams but are made up exclusively of kids from that school. They play in the "AAU" circuit around here in the Spring and Fall and the HS Summer Leagues. The Juniors and most Sophomores play on the "varsity" teams in the three seasons. Freshman and incoming 8th graders play on the "JV" teams. You can play other sports but you better be darned good because a kid who doesn't play other sports may jump up and take your spot. Tryouts now aren't really tryouts because the coaches already know all the kids very well.



I’m going to take it you do not live in Ohio.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 8:35:46 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

I’m going to take it you do not live in Ohio.


Thant's pretty well documented over the years. I suspect the DC area state assns are a bit different than the IHSAA, OHSAA,IHSA and midwest assns.

Ourside your immediate area there in Athens and the athletes you come in contact with in SEO are there a plethora of basketball athletes that do not specialize too early and Coaches that do not fight over football or basketball athletes? The midwest still seems to have a large number of HS communities with multi sport athletes but are the guys playing Club ball and pursuing hoops scholarships at OBC, All Ohio Red or any of those still doing multi sports?

I think we wrestle with that in IN at an early age. Coaches have 2 a days going in FB and Hoops coaches are still watching if they show up for Open Gym. Tommy's track coach let him miss meets that conflicted with Saturday AAU events. Happy to have a hurdler on the days he was not in AR, NC, TX .

I saw a mom from Muncie who has been shopping her child to Indy schools since 5th grade the other day. Anyone who has spent time at an AAU type event has met the "Mahh baby gon be the nexxxx LayBron" Mom. She WILL NOT hear of him playing FB, Baseball PERIOD....saying "bassbaw gonbe his money and make us rich". Thats not on coaches. That's flat out cultural.

Last Edited: 11/23/2017 8:36:42 AM by bornacatfan


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 10:19:40 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Sounds like we need a new/better strength and conditioning program and/or some new/better trainers and dieticians.

Also seems to me Saul's philosophy of recruiting fringe athletes with niche talents who fit his style may need some tweaking. If guys physically can't stay healthy (and it's not 1 or 2 - but an issue for multiple players over multiple years now) then you've got to start looking at root causes.

I'm all for role players, but if you're asking them to do things beyond what their body might be capable of on a nightly basis - your probability of injury goes up significantly. It's like - who gets injured in middle school gym while playing dodgeball? It's not the athletes. It's the kid in the glasses with two left feet who's trying really hard.

Obviously until we get healthy this team is going to struggle mightily. I just worry in the bigger picture that our teams are going to continue to have health issues, and thus continue to struggle, until we address the above.


I don't think this is the problem.

An issue that doesn't get discussed much: kids getting injured-- or else the stage being set for later injuries--during HS with training practices that may be flat out wrong. Then these injuries show up as college freshmen.



Jeff I think there's certainly validity to your point - and it's a potential issue, but I'm not sure it's the root cause of OUR issues.

Sure BVP, AJG and Gollon got injured as freshmen, but Carter, Mickle, Campbell, Wadly and Harley were all well removed from HS/AAU circuits.

And that's just the injuries from the last 3 years!

There's normal injuries, then there's bad luck, then there's trends. I just fear we're getting awful close to the 3rd category.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 10:39:52 AM 
bornacatfan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

I’m going to take it you do not live in Ohio.


Thant's pretty well documented over the years. I suspect the DC area state assns are a bit different than the IHSAA, OHSAA,IHSA and midwest assns.

Ourside your immediate area there in Athens and the athletes you come in contact with in SEO are there a plethora of basketball athletes that do not specialize too early and Coaches that do not fight over football or basketball athletes? The midwest still seems to have a large number of HS communities with multi sport athletes but are the guys playing Club ball and pursuing hoops scholarships at OBC, All Ohio Red or any of those still doing multi sports?

I think we wrestle with that in IN at an early age. Coaches have 2 a days going in FB and Hoops coaches are still watching if they show up for Open Gym. Tommy's track coach let him miss meets that conflicted with Saturday AAU events. Happy to have a hurdler on the days he was not in AR, NC, TX .

I saw a mom from Muncie who has been shopping her child to Indy schools since 5th grade the other day. Anyone who has spent time at an AAU type event has met the "Mahh baby gon be the nexxxx LayBron" Mom. She WILL NOT hear of him playing FB, Baseball PERIOD....saying "bassbaw gonbe his money and make us rich". Thats not on coaches. That's flat out cultural.



No, you missed the point, my post is not about specialization, but rather the seemingly year round team play that is a big no-no in Ohio. Ohio, has a 50% rule in out of season competition. This year alone over 60 schools have forfeited contest and athletes suspended for violation of said rules.

That being said, we have plenty of people in SEO who believe their kids are going pro or DI, and there is no lack of a cottage industry of pimping mom and dad with the promise of getting the child to the promised land.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 11:59:49 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


No, you missed the point, my post is not about specialization, but rather the seemingly year round team play that is a big no-no in Ohio. Ohio, has a 50% rule in out of season competition. This year alone over 60 schools have forfeited contest and athletes suspended for violation of said rules.

That being said, we have plenty of people in SEO who believe their kids are going pro or DI, and there is no lack of a cottage industry of pimping mom and dad with the promise of getting the child to the promised land.


Not sure if we have that rule in the DC area but I suspect we do. It seems pretty easy to get around though. As an example, Walt Whitman High School's team that play in the Spring and Fall leagues is called the Bethesda Bullets and the coach is not on the staff at the school. But they run the same stuff that Whitman does and even though they have open tryouts the kids are all Whitman kids.

There a million parents out there that think their kids have what it takes to get to the highest level of their sport. That's fine but unless you have a strong plan B you are doing your child a disservice. Even if your son or daughter has the talent and the work ethic (the odds they do is really, really small) the things that can go wrong along the way are many. But athletics can be a good avenue to a great education as well as many other perks (see Walter Luckett).
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 2:03:50 PM 
OUVan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


No, you missed the point, my post is not about specialization, but rather the seemingly year round team play that is a big no-no in Ohio. Ohio, has a 50% rule in out of season competition. This year alone over 60 schools have forfeited contest and athletes suspended for violation of said rules.

That being said, we have plenty of people in SEO who believe their kids are going pro or DI, and there is no lack of a cottage industry of pimping mom and dad with the promise of getting the child to the promised land.


Not sure if we have that rule in the DC area but I suspect we do. It seems pretty easy to get around though. As an example, Walt Whitman High School's team that play in the Spring and Fall leagues is called the Bethesda Bullets and the coach is not on the staff at the school. But they run the same stuff that Whitman does and even though they have open tryouts the kids are all Whitman kids.

There a million parents out there that think their kids have what it takes to get to the highest level of their sport. That's fine but unless you have a strong plan B you are doing your child a disservice. Even if your son or daughter has the talent and the work ethic (the odds they do is really, really small) the things that can go wrong along the way are many. But athletics can be a good avenue to a great education as well as many other perks (see Walter Luckett).


In OHIO, does not matter who coaches, kids who are in grades covered by OHSAA juristication and by members schools, are limited to 50% membership from the same school. And the 50% figure is figured off the number of starters in the given sport. So on an AAU basketball team only 2 members can be from the same high school, Volleyball is 3 players, Soccer is 5 players, etc.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 3:19:45 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


In OHIO, does not matter who coaches, kids who are in grades covered by OHSAA juristication and by members schools, are limited to 50% membership from the same school. And the 50% figure is figured off the number of starters in the given sport. So on an AAU basketball team only 2 members can be from the same high school, Volleyball is 3 players, Soccer is 5 players, etc.


Well, we definitely don't have that rule then.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/23/2017 6:34:57 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


No, you missed the point, my post is not about specialization, but rather the seemingly year round team play that is a big no-no in Ohio. Ohio, has a 50% rule in out of season competition. This year alone over 60 schools have forfeited contest and athletes suspended for violation of said rules.

That being said, we have plenty of people in SEO who believe their kids are going pro or DI, and there is no lack of a cottage industry of pimping mom and dad with the promise of getting the child to the promised land.


I did miss that point. It is valid and our IHSAA rules make the limit 3 per school...like Van said though....I do not think the assn's out east or west have the same approach as the midwest consortiums.



never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/27/2017 5:11:56 PM 
Any updates on Jason's injury? Will he be able to play a few games in December before MAC play hits? I sure hope so.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Jason Carter’s status for Saturday
   Posted: 11/27/2017 5:59:30 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OUVan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


No, you missed the point, my post is not about specialization, but rather the seemingly year round team play that is a big no-no in Ohio. Ohio, has a 50% rule in out of season competition. This year alone over 60 schools have forfeited contest and athletes suspended for violation of said rules.

That being said, we have plenty of people in SEO who believe their kids are going pro or DI, and there is no lack of a cottage industry of pimping mom and dad with the promise of getting the child to the promised land.


Not sure if we have that rule in the DC area but I suspect we do. It seems pretty easy to get around though. As an example, Walt Whitman High School's team that play in the Spring and Fall leagues is called the Bethesda Bullets and the coach is not on the staff at the school. But they run the same stuff that Whitman does and even though they have open tryouts the kids are all Whitman kids.

There a million parents out there that think their kids have what it takes to get to the highest level of their sport. That's fine but unless you have a strong plan B you are doing your child a disservice. Even if your son or daughter has the talent and the work ethic (the odds they do is really, really small) the things that can go wrong along the way are many. But athletics can be a good avenue to a great education as well as many other perks (see Walter Luckett).


In OHIO, does not matter who coaches, kids who are in grades covered by OHSAA juristication and by members schools, are limited to 50% membership from the same school. And the 50% figure is figured off the number of starters in the given sport. So on an AAU basketball team only 2 members can be from the same high school, Volleyball is 3 players, Soccer is 5 players, etc.


And this is a recent (last 25 years) concession. In volleyball you used to have to submit a JO waiver form to play on a club team. Very few kids played until things exploded in the 90s.
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