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Author Message 89Cat General User Member Since: 9/12/2011 Post Count: 64 Status: Offline     Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/10/2017 5:05:21 PM  I admit that I am a bigger football fan than I am a basketball fan. I have only casually followed the basketball program since graduating in 89. The last few years I have attended several games each year. This topic has probably already been thoroughly discussed but what has happened to the level of play in the MAC? The MAC gets very little respect nationally. As far as Group of 5 football conferences, are we the worst basketball conference? I know several FCS football conference schools that are superior to the MAC in basketball. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 9:08:10 AM  No. We are not the worst G5 basketball conference. Why do you think so? EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Last Edited: 8/11/2017 9:16:37 AM by OU_Country Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 10:28:04 AM  OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 11:31:36 AM  bshot44 wrote: OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you? Back to Top Day Tripper General User Member Since: 1/23/2007 Post Count: 102 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 11:41:57 AM  OU_Country wrote: bshot44 wrote: OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you? You can't argue with the truth. RPI has never been Ohio's friend. In multiple sports, if Ohio had a respectable RPI that was in the ball park for a invite, Ohio has been left out. Unless Ohio wins the MAC tournament, they will left out no matter what the winning percentage or RPI is. Accept it, believe it, bank on it. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 11:45:47 AM  Day Tripper wrote: OU_Country wrote: bshot44 wrote: OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you? You can't argue with the truth. RPI has never been Ohio's friend. In multiple sports, if Ohio had a respectable RPI that was in the ball park for a invite, Ohio has been left out. Unless Ohio wins the MAC tournament, they will left out no matter what the winning percentage or RPI is. Accept it, believe it, bank on it. I don't disagree with you at all. The reason Ohio, or any other MAC school, and most mid-majors, have little chance at at-large has more to do with the rest of the conference and who they choose to play in Nov/Dec. I'm generally not bothered by the fact that it all relies on Cleveland most years for most MAC schools. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 2,992 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 12:49:10 PM  89Cat wrote: I admit that I am a bigger football fan than I am a basketball fan. I have only casually followed the basketball program since graduating in 89. The last few years I have attended several games each year. This topic has probably already been thoroughly discussed but what has happened to the level of play in the MAC? The MAC gets very little respect nationally. As far as Group of 5 football conferences, are we the worst basketball conference? I know several FCS football conference schools that are superior to the MAC in basketball. I think the overall asnwer is the MAC focused its limited resources on football success and basketball has suffered as a result. I'll add that the best three MAC basketball programs the last 10 years (Ohio, Akron, Buffalo) didn't really schedule like programs that wanted at large bids. Especially Akron. Dambrot was completely secure and could have been much more aggressive scheduling. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top perimeterpost General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 3,165 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/11/2017 10:03:10 PM  OU_Country wrote: bshot44 wrote: OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you? casually forgets to mention CUSA is just 3-6 without Memphis. MY STATE. MY TEAM. Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,050 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/12/2017 5:32:20 PM  Quote: casually forgets to mention CUSA is just 3-6 without Memphis. Sort of on that train of thought, if a MAC basketball program made a concerted effort to recruit players out of Atlanta, Memphis, etc - they might be surprised how many they could get interest from and really good ones at that. Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/13/2017 1:39:52 PM  The addition of about 100 programs to Division 1 since the 80's. The development of Catholic basketball schools paying over 1 million for coaches. MAC concentrating on FB for the past few years. It's starting to come back over the last 5 years with greater investment in coaches. Ohio added new locker rooms, seats to the convo, scoreboard in another year so there is reinvestment going on. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,023 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 12:25:17 AM  Uncle Wes wrote: The addition of about 100 programs to Division 1 since the 80's. The development of Catholic basketball schools paying over 1 million for coaches. MAC concentrating on FB for the past few years. It's starting to come back over the last 5 years with greater investment in coaches. Ohio added new locker rooms, seats to the convo, scoreboard in another year so there is reinvestment going on. 100 programs added? Please quantify. Back to Top brucecuth General User Member Since: 12/21/2004 Post Count: 1,794 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 5:48:59 AM  Alan Swank wrote: Uncle Wes wrote: The addition of about 100 programs to Division 1 since the 80's. The development of Catholic basketball schools paying over 1 million for coaches. MAC concentrating on FB for the past few years. It's starting to come back over the last 5 years with greater investment in coaches. Ohio added new locker rooms, seats to the convo, scoreboard in another year so there is reinvestment going on. 100 programs added? Please quantify. To Wes's point, there were 234 Division 1 men's basketball programs in the '75-'76 season. There were 20 conferences and 77 independent teams. Data from sports-reference.com According to KenPom.com, there are currently 351 D-1 teams. Back to Top Maddog13 General User Member Since: 12/21/2004 Location: Albuquerque, NM Post Count: 597 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 6:40:24 AM  My own interpretation of what I have heard and read over the years is that top Division 1 teams have always been wary about scheduling MAC teams, and to definitely avoid playing them at their own home arenas. It also appears that the emphasis on coaches these days is to try to pad your winning percentage early, which might explain the reason that certain challenging situations are avoided in the early part of the season. Is it my imagination, or has the out of conference scheduling become pretty dull and uninspired in recent history in terms of the Bobcats themselves? I am also curious about the logistic and expense of becoming more involved in early season tournaments. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 10:03:08 AM  Maddog13 wrote: My own interpretation of what I have heard and read over the years is that top Division 1 teams have always been wary about scheduling MAC teams, and to definitely avoid playing them at their own home arenas. It also appears that the emphasis on coaches these days is to try to pad your winning percentage early, which might explain the reason that certain challenging situations are avoided in the early part of the season. Is it my imagination, or has the out of conference scheduling become pretty dull and uninspired in recent history in terms of the Bobcats themselves? I am also curious about the logistic and expense of becoming more involved in early season tournaments. Can we define two things here? 1) what constitutes dull vs exciting when we're talking about non-conf opponents? 2) When we're talking "recent history", are we talking the last 5 years, 15 years, or what? I have an opinion, but if I'm referring to the wrong time frames, it's probably different. I'd love to know about the expense of those tournaments as well, particularly as it could possibly relate to the quality of home opponents they can afford to bring to Athens. While I don't know the specifics, I'd imagine there's certainly the potential that being involved in Charleston Classic equates to having NW Ohio as a regular season game. Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 10:24:15 AM  perimeterpost wrote: OU_Country wrote: bshot44 wrote: OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you? casually forgets to mention CUSA is just 3-6 without Memphis. 3-6 > 3-10 OU_Country wrote: You're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you? Just being honest. Ohio69 wrote: I'll add that the best three MAC basketball programs the last 10 years (Ohio, Akron, Buffalo) didn't really schedule like programs that wanted at large bids. Especially Akron. Dambrot was completely secure and could have been much more aggressive scheduling. This is spot on. Akron NEVER scheduled like they should have during the Dambrot era ... and it ultimately cost them a couple of years where they could've got at-large consideration. It's an epidemic in the MAC (scheduling that is) Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,790 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 11:29:56 AM  OU_Country wrote: I'd love to know about the expense of those tournaments as well, particularly as it could possibly relate to the quality of home opponents they can afford to bring to Athens. While I don't know the specifics, I'd imagine there's certainly the potential that being involved in Charleston Classic equates to having NW Ohio as a regular season game. I think that's a good point there. I don't really know the number specifics either, but I believe the schedules a lot of people are calling for would cost the program a lot more money. That has to be a factor. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 12:00:30 PM  UpSan Bobcat wrote: OU_Country wrote: I'd love to know about the expense of those tournaments as well, particularly as it could possibly relate to the quality of home opponents they can afford to bring to Athens. While I don't know the specifics, I'd imagine there's certainly the potential that being involved in Charleston Classic equates to having NW Ohio as a regular season game. I think that's a good point there. I don't really know the number specifics either, but I believe the schedules a lot of people are calling for would cost the program a lot more money. That has to be a factor. It could be the case. On the flip side, if the MAC would knock the number of "required" home games down by two, we'd see more road games of greater interest to the general fan base - at least based on the conversation on here. And, it's assumed that those games might make the program a little bit of spending money. Knowing the economics of this would actually be pretty cool. It could explain a lot of the "why are we scheduling this team or that team" questions. The other explanations would come from the other teams being unwilling to play us, or play us when we want to play them. But that MAC Mandate changing a little would be a step in the right direction. Back to Top brucecuth General User Member Since: 12/21/2004 Post Count: 1,794 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 4:54:35 PM  OU_Country wrote: Maddog13 wrote: My own interpretation of what I have heard and read over the years is that top Division 1 teams have always been wary about scheduling MAC teams, and to definitely avoid playing them at their own home arenas. It also appears that the emphasis on coaches these days is to try to pad your winning percentage early, which might explain the reason that certain challenging situations are avoided in the early part of the season. Is it my imagination, or has the out of conference scheduling become pretty dull and uninspired in recent history in terms of the Bobcats themselves? I am also curious about the logistic and expense of becoming more involved in early season tournaments. Can we define two things here? 1) what constitutes dull vs exciting when we're talking about non-conf opponents? 2) When we're talking "recent history", are we talking the last 5 years, 15 years, or what? I have an opinion, but if I'm referring to the wrong time frames, it's probably different. I'd love to know about the expense of those tournaments as well, particularly as it could possibly relate to the quality of home opponents they can afford to bring to Athens. While I don't know the specifics, I'd imagine there's certainly the potential that being involved in Charleston Classic equates to having NW Ohio as a regular season game. I'll tell you what I look for in non-con opponents. NAME BRANDS. I really don't care if we're playing a team that casual fans cannot identify, even if it did play in the NCAA a year ago. I want NAME BRAND schools with maybe a coach the casual fan might have seen on ESPN a couple times, or a scorer who was among the top 20 in the country last year and is being talked about as a future pro... Alabama A&M? The only reason I know there is an Alabama A&M is 'cuz that's where Semeka Randall ended up after making a hash of our womens' program. Northwest Ohio? An NAIA school? And people yell at me when I say we're minor league...THAT is minor league scheduling. Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,925 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 7:45:25 PM  bshot44 wrote: OU_Country wrote: EDIT: I say this because in general one of, or both of, the Sun Belt Conference and C-USA have been below the MAC in RPI for almost ten years. Screw RPI Sun Belt 6-13 NCAA tourney record since 2007 CUSA 14-14 NCAA tourney record since 2007 MAC 3-10 NCAA tourney record since 2007 (all Ohio wins, Go Cats!) Both CUSA & Sun Belt have been multi-bid leagues multiple times in that time frame too. MAC hasn't in this century. How many of the CUSA wins were Memphis. How many are teams that are still in the conference since the AAC poached them? Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/14/2017 10:49:17 PM  Going back through the years I don't know if its the Catholic schools some which have always been good that has done the MAC in as much as the integration cause the rise of Memphis, VCU and the Sun Belt basketball conference. By the 90's the MAC settled in 11th to 15th rated. 1947-48 MAC 6th rated 159 D1 members 1957-58 MAC 10th rated 173 D1 members 1967-68 MAC 9th rated 190 D1 members 1977-78 MAC 15th rated 253 D1 members 1987-88 MAC 21th rated 290 D1 members 1997-98 MAC 13th rated 306 D1 members 2007-08 MAC 12th rated 328 D1 members Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/15/2017 8:49:43 AM  brucecuth wrote: OU_Country wrote: Maddog13 wrote: My own interpretation of what I have heard and read over the years is that top Division 1 teams have always been wary about scheduling MAC teams, and to definitely avoid playing them at their own home arenas. It also appears that the emphasis on coaches these days is to try to pad your winning percentage early, which might explain the reason that certain challenging situations are avoided in the early part of the season. Is it my imagination, or has the out of conference scheduling become pretty dull and uninspired in recent history in terms of the Bobcats themselves? I am also curious about the logistic and expense of becoming more involved in early season tournaments. Can we define two things here? 1) what constitutes dull vs exciting when we're talking about non-conf opponents? 2) When we're talking "recent history", are we talking the last 5 years, 15 years, or what? I have an opinion, but if I'm referring to the wrong time frames, it's probably different. I'd love to know about the expense of those tournaments as well, particularly as it could possibly relate to the quality of home opponents they can afford to bring to Athens. While I don't know the specifics, I'd imagine there's certainly the potential that being involved in Charleston Classic equates to having NW Ohio as a regular season game. I'll tell you what I look for in non-con opponents. NAME BRANDS. I really don't care if we're playing a team that casual fans cannot identify, even if it did play in the NCAA a year ago. I want NAME BRAND schools with maybe a coach the casual fan might have seen on ESPN a couple times, or a scorer who was among the top 20 in the country last year and is being talked about as a future pro... Alabama A&M? The only reason I know there is an Alabama A&M is 'cuz that's where Semeka Randall ended up after making a hash of our womens' program. Northwest Ohio? An NAIA school? And people yell at me when I say we're minor league...THAT is minor league scheduling. Good thing for you, you're getting two name brands in this year's schedule, and maybe more if they can beat Clemson. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 2,992 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/15/2017 8:50:48 AM  Ohio actually has a really good schedule this year. Clemson, Dayton-or- Hofstra, Mount St. Marys (2017 NCAA tourney team), Iona (2017 NCAA tourney team), Maryland, Western Kentucky, Marshall. That's a tough schedule. Unfortunately we are facing a rebuild year. Could be a tough pre-season. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/15/2017 10:06:23 AM  Ha . I'm just going to grab a bag of 🍿 popcorn and see how this one goes never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top 100%Cat General User Member Since: 1/17/2013 Post Count: 2,491 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/15/2017 10:27:02 AM  People act like scheduling good teams is a ticket to the dance. It's not. Ask Monmouth how their aggressive scheduling paid off for them on Selection Sunday a few years back. Wins over USC, UCLA, Georgetown, Rutgers, and Notre Dame. Add in respectable losses against Dayton and that same USC team (played them twice). They follow that up with 17-3 in conference play and a loss in their tourney final. All those big pre-season wins, what did they get Monmouth? Welcome to the NIT, boys! Which they were guaranteed anyway since they were their conference #1 seed and lost in the final. It didn't get them s__t, so why is it going to somehow work for us? Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: Why is the MAC so relatively bad in Basketball?    Posted: 8/15/2017 10:52:39 AM  100%Cat wrote: People act like scheduling good teams is a ticket to the dance. It's not. Ask Monmouth how their aggressive scheduling paid off for them on Selection Sunday a few years back. Wins over USC, UCLA, Georgetown, Rutgers, and Notre Dame. Add in respectable losses against Dayton and that same USC team (played them twice). They follow that up with 17-3 in conference play and a loss in their tourney final. All those big pre-season wins, what did they get Monmouth? Welcome to the NIT, boys! Which they were guaranteed anyway since they were their conference #1 seed and lost in the final. It didn't get them s__t, so why is it going to somehow work for us? Monmouth got hosed that year .... and their league was baaaaad. I'm guessing if Monmouth scheduled like that every year .... had similar results every year .... that they would eventually break thru. Nobody had heard of Monmouth...so that probably didn't help. But it wasn't that long ago that a lot people had never heard of Gonzaga or Wichita State or Butler for that matter. Those teams didn't grow into really strong, national college basketball programs by playing Alabama A&M, Prairie View, Coppin State and NW Ohio every year. I'm not saying Ohio is going to turn into a Top 25 program by scheduling better. But they sure as hell would pump some excitement into the program if they scheduled some teams our causal fans may have heard of ... or that some of our more hardcore fans actually respected. And heavens forbid....if the stars aligned and they actually ripped off a 11-1 non-conference season .... maybe.....JUST MAYBE....they'd be in line for to join the at-large discussion with a good MAC season. It will NEVER happen with the way they schedule now. So your solution is to just quit trying? Ok...let's just schedule the entire SWAC and MEAC and play one road game at DePaul each year and get excited! Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 25  of 77 Posts Jump to Page:   1 | 2 | 3 | 4    Next > View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 398 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 397 Guests 1 Registered User:   bobcatfan123 There are no other users looking at this page.

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