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Topic:  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule

Topic:  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
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OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/11/2017 11:37:36 AM 
I was merely pointing out that 1) we don't know the reasons behind the schedule, be it budget or whatever, 2) you or someone could go to a Caravan stop and try to get it right from the source, or use some other way, and 3) the other reasons I mentioned were throwing thoughts out there about why they ended up with SWAC teams, not that they were actually real reasons. I don't have a clue.

Based on your posts, you appear to more angry about it than I am worried about who is on the schedule. I'm not sure where I'm showing "extremism"?

Maybe you're right, maybe I should quit defending it, and commenting on it. After all, it's basic SSDD, broken records, or Groundhog Day from a few on here about the schedule.

Last Edited: 8/11/2017 11:42:46 AM by OU_Country
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Maryland Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/11/2017 1:39:34 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
OUVan wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
In terms of a schedule that tests the team, isn't this closer to what everyone has asked for? Games against P5 schools, and tougher games?



It is definitely better than last year but I just don't see the reason why you would need to schedule more than one of those 300+ teams. Are we saving tons of money by playing those teams?


THIS is really a great question, and I wish I knew the answer to it because it's a big part of the equation.

As much as I tire of complaints about scheduling, I totally understand the complaint about scheduling multiple SWAC/MEAC schools. Locally, we'd all get more out of Cleveland State as noted, or some OVC/Horizon/Summit/Colonial/MVC or even SoCon opponents. As I often say though, it takes two to tango in the scheduling world.

I also am not a savvy enough RPI/SOS guy to know what winning games over the 3 SWAC/MEAC schools does or doesn't do to hurt our team. I am savvy enough to know that in terms of excitement for a particular opponent, they don't move the needle at all. I think if you're enough of a Bobcat/mid-major basketball fan, there are still 3-4 games outside of the Charleston trip that should peak your interest.


Just playing vs. three 300+ RPI teams kills your numbers. Just kills them. Even winning those games does nothing to help your cause. It's literally a schedule killer. I couldn't agree more on your idea of adding teams from those other leagues. The Mount St. Mary's addition should be our floor for buy games. That's a good game vs. a decent low-level mid-major. Would have been nice to replace those SWAC teams with maybe a UT-Martin or a Bradley or a UW-Green Bay. Not necessarily a Top 100 team...but at least a Top 200 team or right around 200 at worst.

There is no need for Ohio, the premier program in the MAC, to be playing those 300+ trash teams. None. Zero. They shouldn't even be in the rolodex.


Mount St Marys is actually a pretty good team. They were their conference champion last year.


"The Mount" is a very good program, and I'm not just saying that because my wife's uncle was a former President of the university :). This is a solid bracket-buster type match-up. I just hope we make the return trip to Emmitsburg next fall!
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Big Willy
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/11/2017 6:57:51 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
I know they'll never make everyone happy ... but jeez...4 SWAC/Non D1s is borderline embarrassing for this program. You mean you can't get better or challenge yourself against some other teams...even if it's hitting road for another similar mid-major?


Good point. Ball State and Akron are both playing at Dayton this year (without a return visit). Why can't Ohio do something like that (with UD, UC, or X), particularly in light of the new NCAA selection procedures emphasizing road games.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/14/2017 9:35:39 AM 
Big Willy wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
I know they'll never make everyone happy ... but jeez...4 SWAC/Non D1s is borderline embarrassing for this program. You mean you can't get better or challenge yourself against some other teams...even if it's hitting road for another similar mid-major?


Good point. Ball State and Akron are both playing at Dayton this year (without a return visit). Why can't Ohio do something like that (with UD, UC, or X), particularly in light of the new NCAA selection procedures emphasizing road games.


Ohio tried to do that last year, and it didn't quite work out. I was hopeful that it would have this year. My suggestion is that those who aren't pleased with the teams in some of the home games express this on their surveys at the end of the year, or send a note to Jim Schaus.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/14/2017 10:34:50 AM 
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
OUVan wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
In terms of a schedule that tests the team, isn't this closer to what everyone has asked for? Games against P5 schools, and tougher games?



It is definitely better than last year but I just don't see the reason why you would need to schedule more than one of those 300+ teams. Are we saving tons of money by playing those teams?


THIS is really a great question, and I wish I knew the answer to it because it's a big part of the equation.

As much as I tire of complaints about scheduling, I totally understand the complaint about scheduling multiple SWAC/MEAC schools. Locally, we'd all get more out of Cleveland State as noted, or some OVC/Horizon/Summit/Colonial/MVC or even SoCon opponents. As I often say though, it takes two to tango in the scheduling world.

I also am not a savvy enough RPI/SOS guy to know what winning games over the 3 SWAC/MEAC schools does or doesn't do to hurt our team. I am savvy enough to know that in terms of excitement for a particular opponent, they don't move the needle at all. I think if you're enough of a Bobcat/mid-major basketball fan, there are still 3-4 games outside of the Charleston trip that should peak your interest.


Just playing vs. three 300+ RPI teams kills your numbers. Just kills them. Even winning those games does nothing to help your cause. It's literally a schedule killer. I couldn't agree more on your idea of adding teams from those other leagues. The Mount St. Mary's addition should be our floor for buy games. That's a good game vs. a decent low-level mid-major. Would have been nice to replace those SWAC teams with maybe a UT-Martin or a Bradley or a UW-Green Bay. Not necessarily a Top 100 team...but at least a Top 200 team or right around 200 at worst.

There is no need for Ohio, the premier program in the MAC, to be playing those 300+ trash teams. None. Zero. They shouldn't even be in the rolodex.


Mount St Marys is actually a pretty good team. They were their conference champion last year.


"The Mount" is a very good program, and I'm not just saying that because my wife's uncle was a former President of the university :). This is a solid bracket-buster type match-up. I just hope we make the return trip to Emmitsburg next fall!


No return game to the Mount. It was a buy-game. I loved going to games there when ol' Jimmy Bow Tie Phelan was running things. They had some fun teams when I lived over there in the late 90's/early 2000's.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/14/2017 10:44:47 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
I was merely pointing out that 1) we don't know the reasons behind the schedule, be it budget or whatever, 2) you or someone could go to a Caravan stop and try to get it right from the source, or use some other way, and 3) the other reasons I mentioned were throwing thoughts out there about why they ended up with SWAC teams, not that they were actually real reasons. I don't have a clue.

Based on your posts, you appear to more angry about it than I am worried about who is on the schedule. I'm not sure where I'm showing "extremism"?

Maybe you're right, maybe I should quit defending it, and commenting on it. After all, it's basic SSDD, broken records, or Groundhog Day from a few on here about the schedule.


We're just having a fun debate. No harm in that.

I know you don't support playing a garbage schedule .... you're just a little more tolerant of it than I am.

I've just watched this program (basketball and football for that matter) walk to the edge of relevancy on more of a national stage rather than just a MAC stage ..... and then just not have the guts to go for it.

I'd just like to see them take the leap. Go all in and try to make that next step rather than just settling being a really good MAC program.

Sometimes I just feel like we're our own worst enemy in terms of getting in our own way.

And this much I will tell you .... you'll never get a honest answer from Schaus or Saul (or Solich) when it comes to scheduling. They'll never admit to scheduling down and they'll always publicly say how they are doing their best to put together a challenging schedule. No one (other than those involved) will ever know what is discussed behind closed doors when it comes to putting the schedules together.
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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/14/2017 8:34:19 PM 
Loss of Fuss may have had some impact this year - eh?

RS Bobcat

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/15/2017 9:21:18 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
I was merely pointing out that 1) we don't know the reasons behind the schedule, be it budget or whatever, 2) you or someone could go to a Caravan stop and try to get it right from the source, or use some other way, and 3) the other reasons I mentioned were throwing thoughts out there about why they ended up with SWAC teams, not that they were actually real reasons. I don't have a clue.

Based on your posts, you appear to more angry about it than I am worried about who is on the schedule. I'm not sure where I'm showing "extremism"?

Maybe you're right, maybe I should quit defending it, and commenting on it. After all, it's basic SSDD, broken records, or Groundhog Day from a few on here about the schedule.


We're just having a fun debate. No harm in that.

I know you don't support playing a garbage schedule .... you're just a little more tolerant of it than I am.

I've just watched this program (basketball and football for that matter) walk to the edge of relevancy on more of a national stage rather than just a MAC stage ..... and then just not have the guts to go for it.

I'd just like to see them take the leap. Go all in and try to make that next step rather than just settling being a really good MAC program.

Sometimes I just feel like we're our own worst enemy in terms of getting in our own way.

And this much I will tell you .... you'll never get a honest answer from Schaus or Saul (or Solich) when it comes to scheduling. They'll never admit to scheduling down and they'll always publicly say how they are doing their best to put together a challenging schedule. No one (other than those involved) will ever know what is discussed behind closed doors when it comes to putting the schedules together.


Papering over the weak schedules is as irritating as playing them. Schaus when he first watered down the football schedules in 2009 admitted it was a strategy to increase win totals. He would never admit the same for basketball. TOS in 2007-08 his last year played New Mexico St, Temple, St.Bonaventure, Maryland, Kansas, St. John's and St. Mary's. Seven teams from Top 10 conferences. It can be done but Schaus doesn't want it.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/16/2017 9:32:30 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
I was merely pointing out that 1) we don't know the reasons behind the schedule, be it budget or whatever, 2) you or someone could go to a Caravan stop and try to get it right from the source, or use some other way, and 3) the other reasons I mentioned were throwing thoughts out there about why they ended up with SWAC teams, not that they were actually real reasons. I don't have a clue.

Based on your posts, you appear to more angry about it than I am worried about who is on the schedule. I'm not sure where I'm showing "extremism"?

Maybe you're right, maybe I should quit defending it, and commenting on it. After all, it's basic SSDD, broken records, or Groundhog Day from a few on here about the schedule.


We're just having a fun debate. No harm in that.

I know you don't support playing a garbage schedule .... you're just a little more tolerant of it than I am.

I've just watched this program (basketball and football for that matter) walk to the edge of relevancy on more of a national stage rather than just a MAC stage ..... and then just not have the guts to go for it.

I'd just like to see them take the leap. Go all in and try to make that next step rather than just settling being a really good MAC program.

Sometimes I just feel like we're our own worst enemy in terms of getting in our own way.

And this much I will tell you .... you'll never get a honest answer from Schaus or Saul (or Solich) when it comes to scheduling. They'll never admit to scheduling down and they'll always publicly say how they are doing their best to put together a challenging schedule. No one (other than those involved) will ever know what is discussed behind closed doors when it comes to putting the schedules together.


Papering over the weak schedules is as irritating as playing them. Schaus when he first watered down the football schedules in 2009 admitted it was a strategy to increase win totals. He would never admit the same for basketball. TOS in 2007-08 his last year played New Mexico St, Temple, St.Bonaventure, Maryland, Kansas, St. John's and St. Mary's. Seven teams from Top 10 conferences. It can be done but Schaus doesn't want it.


New Mexico State was the bracketbuster return game, Temple was mandated a home/home with every MAC team as part of joining for football (same deal happened with UMass), and St John's and St. Mary's were part of the Hawaii tournament. We sort of lucked into good games. That was also the year we played AT St. Francis (NY).
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/16/2017 10:46:14 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
Would you rather be 7-5 with losses to quality opponents where you were challenged or 10-2 with wins over pathetic competition? What gets you more prepared for the grueling MAC season & Cleveland?


Honestly, it depends on the year. Last year, I wish we had a tougher schedule. But, Tony C went down and then it really didn't matter anyway.

This year? Total rebuild year. Could be a really tough schedule for these guys.



Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/16/2017 4:10:00 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Would you rather be 7-5 with losses to quality opponents where you were challenged or 10-2 with wins over pathetic competition? What gets you more prepared for the grueling MAC season & Cleveland?


Honestly, it depends on the year. Last year, I wish we had a tougher schedule. But, Tony C went down and then it really didn't matter anyway.

This year? Total rebuild year. Could be a really tough schedule for these guys.



Agreed 69 - There's plenty in this year's schedule to get a team ready for the MAC.
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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/17/2017 11:08:55 AM 
Why are we @ Marshall again this year? I went to that hell hole last year and wonder why they are not coming to Athens?

Are we to the point where we can't get a home and home with Marshall?
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/17/2017 11:16:02 AM 

WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
Why are we @ Marshall again this year? I went to that hell hole last year and wonder why they are not coming to Athens?

Are we to the point where we can't get a home and home with Marshall? 

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/17/2017 11:33:35 AM 
Ohio69 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Would you rather be 7-5 with losses to quality opponents where you were challenged or 10-2 with wins over pathetic competition? What gets you more prepared for the grueling MAC season & Cleveland?


Honestly, it depends on the year. Last year, I wish we had a tougher schedule. But, Tony C went down and then it really didn't matter anyway.

This year? Total rebuild year. Could be a really tough schedule for these guys.


There was a time where racking up as many 20 win seasons as possible was in the program's interest. At this point it doesnt matter if we win 18 or 20 games so long as we are showing up in the conference tournament. Winning at least 10 games in the MAC regular season is becoming more of a given. The win totals had to be padded before to make up for inexplicable MAC road losses.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/17/2017 12:04:03 PM 
Ted Thompson wrote:
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
Why are we @ Marshall again this year? I went to that hell hole last year and wonder why they are not coming to Athens?

Are we to the point where we can't get a home and home with Marshall?
4 game series. Ohio balancing road/home non-con, gets home games for 1 and 4 https://t.co/euegPvBRv2&mdash ; Jason Arkley (@JasonAmessenger) https://twitter.com/JasonAmessenger/status/89549460715645...


Thanks. I guess that makes sense?
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WishIWasAtLuckys
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/17/2017 12:08:16 PM 
I just took the time to add all of these games to my calendar to plan ahead for my season tickets.

Depressing non-conference schedule.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/17/2017 3:45:31 PM 
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
I just took the time to add all of these games to my calendar to plan ahead for my season tickets.

Depressing non-conference schedule.


Shut your mouth. Alabama A&M, Coppin State and Prairie View will all provide an ELECTRIC atmosphere in the Convo!

And don't sleep on that NW Ohio game in late December. That one will pack the house!

You will NOT find four better non-conference games to fill out MORE THAN HALF of your non-conference home schedule.

You just won't.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/18/2017 2:50:06 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
I just took the time to add all of these games to my calendar to plan ahead for my season tickets.

Depressing non-conference schedule.


Shut your mouth. Alabama A&M, Coppin State and Prairie View will all provide an ELECTRIC atmosphere in the Convo!

And don't sleep on that NW Ohio game in late December. That one will pack the house!

You will NOT find four better non-conference games to fill out MORE THAN HALF of your non-conference home schedule.

You just won't.


bshot44,

Because I agree with most of your opinions on here, especially the football side, I've got a question for you.

Where do you think we need to be more aggressive? Basketball funding and scheduling or football funding and scheduling? I'll take your answer off the air.

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/18/2017 3:55:19 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
WishIWasAtLuckys wrote:
I just took the time to add all of these games to my calendar to plan ahead for my season tickets.

Depressing non-conference schedule.


Shut your mouth. Alabama A&M, Coppin State and Prairie View will all provide an ELECTRIC atmosphere in the Convo!

And don't sleep on that NW Ohio game in late December. That one will pack the house!

You will NOT find four better non-conference games to fill out MORE THAN HALF of your non-conference home schedule.

You just won't.


bshot44,

Because I agree with most of your opinions on here, especially the football side, I've got a question for you.

Where do you think we need to be more aggressive? Basketball funding and scheduling or football funding and scheduling? I'll take your answer off the air.



That's a great question. Quite honestly, Ohio (and the rest of the MAC) have a better chance to dent the national scene in basketball. That's just the reality.

Now...let me preface this with NO MAC TEAM WILL EVER WIN THE NCAA BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT. But...there is a much, much better chance a team catches lightning in a bottle and makes it to the Final Four than a MAC team EVER cracking the College Football Playoff (CFP).

So realistically, it makes more sense to me to invest in hoops.

But the devil's advocate will say .... there's more $$$$ in football. Yes...football certainly brings in more money than basketball. But the best Ohio probably can ever ascend in CFB is a G5 bowl game like WMU had last year. And that's tough to replicate year after year.

Not that making the NCAA tournament is easy to achieve every year ... but it's far more realistic than earning a G5 bid or CFP bid.

So I'd lean basketball ... but I understand the football argument.

Honestly, I'd love to have an open and honest discussion into the finances that go into football scheduling and find out how much more it costs to play at Temple than it does to play at UMass? Or even a home-and-home with Memphis compared to Idaho? Are we scheduling these dogs based on money? Or based on racking up wins so we can be bowl eligible every year?

Same goes for hoops? How much does it cost to have Robert Morris or MSM or even Valpo come to the Convo compared to the SWACsters that we seem to welcome in every year? Are we scheduling cheap wins ... or just avoiding good competition?

So long answer to short question .... considering Ohio and most mid-major's positions' that have both football and basketball, I'd invest more in hoops.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/28/2017 10:11:43 AM 
Does the Ohio Athletic Department have tickets for sale for road games? Wanted to see about sitting with a bunch of Ohio fans at the Maryland game.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/28/2017 11:12:21 AM 
OUVan wrote:
Does the Ohio Athletic Department have tickets for sale for road games? Wanted to see about sitting with a bunch of Ohio fans at the Maryland game.


I haven't checked in a few years, but they used to sell away tickets up until about a week before the game date. But I'm not sure if they have any individual game tickets, home or away, on sale at all yet.
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OUbobcat9092
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/28/2017 2:34:01 PM 
OUVan wrote:
Does the Ohio Athletic Department have tickets for sale for road games? Wanted to see about sitting with a bunch of Ohio fans at the Maryland game.


The DC Chapter is working with the MD athletic department to get us a block of tickets for the game on 12/7!

Details when we have them.

Bring Back Men's Track & Field

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/28/2017 2:56:23 PM 
OUbobcat9092 wrote:
OUVan wrote:
Does the Ohio Athletic Department have tickets for sale for road games? Wanted to see about sitting with a bunch of Ohio fans at the Maryland game.


The DC Chapter is working with the MD athletic department to get us a block of tickets for the game on 12/7!

Details when we have them.


Awesome, thanks!!!
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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/29/2017 12:03:21 PM 
I realize I am late getting to this dance, but in looking at last year's schedule and this year's OOC schedule, both are weak at best and more like a joke. This coming year we have a total of two (2) P-5 teams with maybe two (2) more in the tourney in Charleston, and the rest range from respectable mid-major programs (Iona, WKU and maybe Marshall) to pathetic bottom dwellers (Alabama A&M, Prairie View and Northwestern Ohio). As for Mount St. Mary I will leave that for others to determine but I would not place them too high on the food chain.

Besides a degree from OUr beloved institution, one of the other degrees I have comes from a school that is a "basketball only" mid-major who also excels in other sports but does not have a football team. On any given year their OOC schedule in men's basketball has at least five (5) or six (6) P-5 schools including the top programs in their state along with the cream of the crop mid-majors to fill out the rest of that portion of their schedule. Further, many of these schools are on a home/away basis. When you compare that school's OOC with Ohio's OOC, it is a day and night difference. My point being just like in football, our men's basketball schedule is built to annually have multiple wins if not twenty (20) plus win seasons. In short, we annually play a cream puff schedule in both football and men's basketball. There are a lot of P-5 teams and better mid-majors we should be playing each year.

P.S.: The entire MAC takes a similar approach to what Ohio does so it should not be a wonder as to why the MAC is a one bid league.

Last Edited: 8/29/2017 12:08:21 PM by ou79
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule
   Posted: 8/29/2017 3:32:18 PM 
ou79 wrote:


Besides a degree from OUr beloved institution, one of the other degrees I have comes from a school that is a "basketball only" mid-major who also excels in other sports but does not have a football team. On any given year their OOC schedule in men's basketball has at least five (5) or six (6) P-5 schools including the top programs in their state along with the cream of the crop mid-majors to fill out the rest of that portion of their schedule. Further, many of these schools are on a home/away basis. When you compare that school's OOC with Ohio's OOC, it is a day and night difference. My point being just like in football, our men's basketball schedule is built to annually have multiple wins if not twenty (20) plus win seasons. In short, we annually play a cream puff schedule in both football and men's basketball. There are a lot of P-5 teams and better mid-majors we should be playing each year.


What is this other school's basketball budget?
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