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It's a league-wide epidemic. Those leagues will never challenge for an at-large bid .... just like the MAC as long as they continue to schedule the way they do. I think we're on the same page that we'd like to see better schedules, so ZERO argument on that. I just get tired of the lip service that they're beefing up the schedule each year and in reality that just isn't happening. Lies, damned lies and statistics. Sunbelt (UT-A), CUSA (MTSU), Colonial (UNC-W) and MVC (WSU & ISU) numbers are inflated because they had teams within the conference with Top 50 RPIs. If Akron had finished the season 8 places higher we would have had 38 games and 5 more wins vs the top 50. Go strictly on OOC games and the numbers look like this (number in parentheses is KenPom conference ranking): MVC - 20 (10) Colonial - 15 (12) MAC - 17 (13) Sunbelt - 15 (15) Summit - 17 (16) MAAC - 20 (19) Horizon - 12 (20) CUSA - 21 (21) OVC - 19 (22) Patriot - 17 (23) And at the end of the day these conferences all have one thing in common. Not a single one of them produced an at-large bid. The only true mid-major conference that was able to secure an at-large was St. Mary's and the WCC. Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 11:42:07 AM  OUVan wrote: bshot44 wrote: In comparison OVC 19 (22) Sun Belt 35 (15) CUSA 42 (21) Horizon 12 (20) Colonial 36 (and had three Top 100 teams) (12) MVC 62 (10) MAAC 20 (three Top 100 teams) (19) Summit League 17 (16) Patriot League 17 (23) I would like to think that MAC strives to be head and shoulder better than the Summit, Patriot, Horizon, MAAC and OVC ... but yet, they schedule just as bad if not worse than some of these leagues. It's a league-wide epidemic. Those leagues will never challenge for an at-large bid .... just like the MAC as long as they continue to schedule the way they do. I think we're on the same page that we'd like to see better schedules, so ZERO argument on that. I just get tired of the lip service that they're beefing up the schedule each year and in reality that just isn't happening. Lies, damned lies and statistics. Sunbelt (UT-A), CUSA (MTSU), Colonial (UNC-W) and MVC (WSU & ISU) numbers are inflated because they had teams within the conference with Top 50 RPIs. If Akron had finished the season 8 places higher we would have had 38 games and 5 more wins vs the top 50. Go strictly on OOC games and the numbers look like this (number in parentheses is KenPom conference ranking): MVC - 20 (10) Colonial - 15 (12) MAC - 17 (13) Sunbelt - 15 (15) Summit - 17 (16) MAAC - 20 (19) Horizon - 12 (20) CUSA - 21 (21) OVC - 19 (22) Patriot - 17 (23) And at the end of the day these conferences all have one thing in common. Not a single one of them produced an at-large bid. The only true mid-major conference that was able to secure an at-large was St. Mary's and the WCC. Yeah...I didn't think of the in-conference Top 50 games until after I posted that. You are right ... some of those numbers would be inflated because of that. But here's my point. From 1994-95 to 1998-99, the MAC was a mulit-bid league three times. Probably the apex of MAC hoops. How does the league get back to having teams in the at-large conversation? When was the last time you really remember a MAC team truly in the at-large conversation? Akron a few times, but realistically they probably wouldn't have gotten a bid. Those other leagues you mentioned might not have a team every single year in the conversation, but there have been a handful. MVC has been a multi-bid league 15 times since 1994-95. Horizon has been 7-time multi-bid league since '94-95 Colonial three times since 2005. Sun Belt twice since 2007 MAAC has even done it once in 2011 OVC has had years where Murray State was in the discussion (didn't get in because of weak-ass schedule) and Belmont. MAAC has had Monmouth sniffing an at-large a couple times recently. Valpo from the Horizon has been in the discussion. Has the MAC just not had a dominant team (that failed to win MAC Tourney) in 20+ years? Yeah, that's probably the case. I just would like to see the league elevate back to being a premier mid-major league ... and not just have a better KenPom rating than the OVC and Patriot. I think scheduling better for the whole league would help. While yes, the league RPI/ratings have gotten better the last few years ... I don't think the league's reputation has evolved all that much. It's still very much a one-bid league in every sense of the word. The MAC doesn't register a lot of eye-popping out-of-conference wins ... and, I think, a big reason for that is they don't give themselves too many opportunities. I know it's hard as hell to schedule years in advance. Like how the hell was Kent supposed to know that Texas was going to suck last year and a win there didn't actually end up being as awesome as many would have anticipated. I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and schedule every P5 school they can find, but it would be nice to trim some of these worthless D2 teams and limit the amount of SWAC/MEAC showdowns. Maybe the league could work something out with another good mid-major league (Colonial maybe?) and do a conference challenge each year? I just think mandating home games isn't the answer. It's helped somewhat raise the numbers, but has it raised the level of competitiveness and visability the league needs to compete at a higher level? Not so sure. Again...I'm totally aware this is all soapbox ranting. I think we all agree we'd like to see a better schedule. I just kind of wish the season had a little more meaning than "three nights in Cleveland". It just feels like we're lumped in with the Summit, Patriot and Southland each year in that regard and I've always thought the MAC was better than that....but in reality, maybe they aren't. Last Edited: 7/24/2017 11:43:49 AM by bshot44 Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 11:43:32 AM  And related to your point about St. Marys, they and Gonzaga aren't really a "mid-major" as compared to all the other conferences and teams you're referring to. Bottom line in this discussion is this: The MAC should be striving to improve the non-conf RPI as a whole. It doesn't seem like half of the conference is. Until they do, conversation about an at-large bid is far from realistic most years. That doesn't mean I don't think Ohio shouldn't schedule for it. It does mean I'm not getting worked up about it - especially not until the actual schedule is released. Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 11:47:29 AM  OU_Country wrote: And related to your point about St. Marys, they and Gonzaga aren't really a "mid-major" as compared to all the other conferences and teams you're referring to. Bottom line in this discussion is this: The MAC should be striving to improve the non-conf RPI as a whole. It doesn't seem like half of the conference is. Until they do, conversation about an at-large bid is far from realistic most years. That doesn't mean I don't think Ohio shouldn't schedule for it. It does mean I'm not getting worked up about it - especially not until the actual schedule is released. I think we are really on the same page here on about 99.9%. The .01% is the "worked up" part. Just to put your mind at ease ... I'm not exactly losing sleep and running around screaming and yelling about CBB schedules in July. To me, this is simply good-natured conversation/debate to get me through some slow work days (shhh! don't tell me manager) Honestly, if Ohio played Tiffin 12 times before the MAC season started ... it would totally suck, but I'd follow them just the same. It would just be nice to be relative on more of a national stage as a league than to be forgotten Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 12:05:55 PM  OU_Country wrote: And related to your point about St. Marys, they and Gonzaga aren't really a "mid-major" as compared to all the other conferences and teams you're referring to. Bottom line in this discussion is this: The MAC should be striving to improve the non-conf RPI as a whole. It doesn't seem like half of the conference is. Until they do, conversation about an at-large bid is far from realistic most years. That doesn't mean I don't think Ohio shouldn't schedule for it. It does mean I'm not getting worked up about it - especially not until the actual schedule is released. St. Mary's still is if you look at the money they spend. They've just been extremely lucky in their ability to retain a great coach. That and they get to play a top 10 team year in, year out at home and usually once more on a neutral court. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 12:24:26 PM  bshot44 wrote: But here's my point. From 1994-95 to 1998-99, the MAC was a mulit-bid league three times. Probably the apex of MAC hoops. How does the league get back to having teams in the at-large conversation? We have to eliminate as many of the bad games as possible. Sometimes you have to be lucky in scheduling as well. Milwaukee, Western Kentucky and Sam Houston St. all had down years last year compared to what we were expecting. But 7 games against 200+ teams is a non-starter on many levels. Even with the scheduling mandate that is terrible scheduling. I don't pretend to know our process but someone should be put in charge with scouting and ranking potential opponents and targeting teams that will be solid teams this year. Don't schedule a single team that you know is going to be 200+ because even if you target good teams one or two of the types of teams that will come to Athens will slip up and fall into that category. Plus at a minimum we'll have four or five of those games in conference. Get home-and-homes with the very best possible teams you can. And get into holiday tournaments with multiple P5 teams. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 1:19:41 PM  OUVan wrote: OU_Country wrote: And related to your point about St. Marys, they and Gonzaga aren't really a "mid-major" as compared to all the other conferences and teams you're referring to. Bottom line in this discussion is this: The MAC should be striving to improve the non-conf RPI as a whole. It doesn't seem like half of the conference is. Until they do, conversation about an at-large bid is far from realistic most years. That doesn't mean I don't think Ohio shouldn't schedule for it. It does mean I'm not getting worked up about it - especially not until the actual schedule is released. St. Mary's still is if you look at the money they spend. They've just been extremely lucky in their ability to retain a great coach. That and they get to play a top 10 team year in, year out at home and usually once more on a neutral court. Good points. And they get another typically better quality opponent 2-3 times in BYU. Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/24/2017 3:27:18 PM  OUVan wrote: bshot44 wrote: But here's my point. From 1994-95 to 1998-99, the MAC was a mulit-bid league three times. Probably the apex of MAC hoops. How does the league get back to having teams in the at-large conversation? We have to eliminate as many of the bad games as possible. Sometimes you have to be lucky in scheduling as well. Milwaukee, Western Kentucky and Sam Houston St. all had down years last year compared to what we were expecting. But 7 games against 200+ teams is a non-starter on many levels. Even with the scheduling mandate that is terrible scheduling. I don't pretend to know our process but someone should be put in charge with scouting and ranking potential opponents and targeting teams that will be solid teams this year. Don't schedule a single team that you know is going to be 200+ because even if you target good teams one or two of the types of teams that will come to Athens will slip up and fall into that category. Plus at a minimum we'll have four or five of those games in conference. Get home-and-homes with the very best possible teams you can. And get into holiday tournaments with multiple P5 teams. Couldn't agree more on all points. I think the director of basketball ops is kind of in charge of scheduling ... or at least that is their role at a lot of schools. You're exactly right. We know that Southern, Alcorn State and Appy State are going to suck EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. They should never get on our schedule .... ever. Nor should any of these D2 teams, unless it is an exhibition. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 1:03:51 PM  Kent State just released their OOC schedule (KenPom ranking from last year in parentheses): Home Oregon State (264) Ohio Christian (NR) Mississippi Valley State (344) SE Louisiana (231) Cleveland State (242) Northeastern (159) Away @Albany (129) @Norfolk State (299) @Xavier (31) @Wright State (164) Neutral Youngstown State (282) Valpo (104) Loyola-Chicago (97) Some intriguing games, including getting a P5 into their house but seven 200+ or NR games in there as well. Back to Top shabamon General User Member Since: 11/17/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 6,103 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 1:11:44 PM  Internet birdies are saying we will get Clemson in the first round at Charleston, Dayton/Hofstra in 2nd round, any of the rest of the field to close. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 1:21:10 PM  Yep, Arkley tweeted that last night. Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 6,912 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 2:02:26 PM  shabamon wrote: Internet birdies are saying we will get Clemson in the first round at Charleston, Dayton/Hofstra in 2nd round, any of the rest of the field to close. That's probably the best scenario we could have hoped for if we beat Clemson and Dayton beats Hofstra. Hopefully Temple cleans out on the other side. Still, we're not getting any bad opponents here. Hofstra, ODU and Indiana State are all quality mid-majors. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 3:22:02 PM  I've said it many times in other threads. It's very simple to get yourself positioned to get at at-large bid. You must schedule P5 teams. Since they won't come to Athens, you must play them on the road. And you must beat some of them. That's not the only thing, of course. But it's been proven that if you do all the other things without playing and beating P5 teams, you will not get an at-large bid. Back to Top Ted Thompson Administrator Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: MAC Play Post Count: 7,395 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 4:18:36 PM  Ohio/Clemson at 5 PM on ESPN2. Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/26/2017 9:33:21 PM  giacomo wrote: I've said it many times in other threads. It's very simple to get yourself positioned to get at at-large bid. You must schedule P5 teams. Since they won't come to Athens, you must play them on the road. And you must beat some of them. That's not the only thing, of course. But it's been proven that if you do all the other things without playing and beating P5 teams, you will not get an at-large bid. St. Mary's, the only mid-major to receive an at-large bid last year, played the exact same number of P5 teams that we did and their P5 team wasn't as highly ranked as ours. In 2016 Monmouth played and beat UCLA, Notre Dame, USC, Rutgers, and Georgetown. They got a nice home game in the NIT. If we don't get better as a league we aren't going to get any at-large bids. We need 3 or 4 teams to work their way into the Top 100. And we also can't afford 200+ teams in conference. But at the end of the day, the first thing we need to do is put an at-large worthy team on the floor. We haven't done that in a long time. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/27/2017 11:17:39 AM  That all may be true. However, we can't control the rest of the MAC. We can control our own schedule. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/28/2017 12:51:21 PM  CMU just released their schedule and it may be the worst MAC schedule I've ever seen (KenPom ranking added for context): Northwood (non-D1) Siena Heights (non-D1) at Michigan (20) Eureka College (non-D1) at Great Alaska Shootout, TBA Jackson State (329) Montana State (239) Tennessee Tech (257) at Southern Utah (333) at UMKC (219) SIU Edwardsville (318) Lawrence Tech (non-D1) Great Alaska Shootout Game 1 vs Sam Houston State (234) Game 2 vs Cal Poly (306)/College of Charleston (89) Game 3 (one of the following teams) Idaho (216) Santa Clara (126) CSU Bakersfield (90) Alaska Anchorage (non-D1) Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,789 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/28/2017 2:41:52 PM  OUVan wrote: CMU just released their schedule and it may be the worst MAC schedule I've ever seen (KenPom ranking added for context): Northwood (non-D1) Siena Heights (non-D1) at Michigan (20) Eureka College (non-D1) at Great Alaska Shootout, TBA Jackson State (329) Montana State (239) Tennessee Tech (257) at Southern Utah (333) at UMKC (219) SIU Edwardsville (318) Lawrence Tech (non-D1) Great Alaska Shootout Game 1 vs Sam Houston State (234) Game 2 vs Cal Poly (306)/College of Charleston (89) Game 3 (one of the following teams) Idaho (216) Santa Clara (126) CSU Bakersfield (90) Alaska Anchorage (non-D1) Terrible for sure. Four and possibly five non-Division I teams and as few as one opponent inside the top 200. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/28/2017 2:58:00 PM  UpSan Bobcat wrote: OUVan wrote: CMU just released their schedule and it may be the worst MAC schedule I've ever seen (KenPom ranking added for context): Northwood (non-D1) Siena Heights (non-D1) at Michigan (20) Eureka College (non-D1) at Great Alaska Shootout, TBA Jackson State (329) Montana State (239) Tennessee Tech (257) at Southern Utah (333) at UMKC (219) SIU Edwardsville (318) Lawrence Tech (non-D1) Great Alaska Shootout Game 1 vs Sam Houston State (234) Game 2 vs Cal Poly (306)/College of Charleston (89) Game 3 (one of the following teams) Idaho (216) Santa Clara (126) CSU Bakersfield (90) Alaska Anchorage (non-D1) Terrible for sure. Four and possibly five non-Division I teams and as few as one opponent inside the top 200. Yep, they need to beat Sam Houston or that comes to pass. They need to start assigning non-D1 schools a numerical value (352?) for ranking purposes. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/28/2017 5:21:42 PM  Ball State has some big games on the schedule Oregon being the one that stood out to me.... Mixed reactions between..."what are we thinking" to "finally scheduling some big time teams" never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top Bobcat1998 General User Member Since: 11/7/2012 Post Count: 2,229 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/29/2017 12:32:41 AM  OUVan wrote: UpSan Bobcat wrote: OUVan wrote: CMU just released their schedule and it may be the worst MAC schedule I've ever seen (KenPom ranking added for context): Northwood (non-D1) Siena Heights (non-D1) at Michigan (20) Eureka College (non-D1) at Great Alaska Shootout, TBA Jackson State (329) Montana State (239) Tennessee Tech (257) at Southern Utah (333) at UMKC (219) SIU Edwardsville (318) Lawrence Tech (non-D1) Great Alaska Shootout Game 1 vs Sam Houston State (234) Game 2 vs Cal Poly (306)/College of Charleston (89) Game 3 (one of the following teams) Idaho (216) Santa Clara (126) CSU Bakersfield (90) Alaska Anchorage (non-D1) Terrible for sure. Four and possibly five non-Division I teams and as few as one opponent inside the top 200. Yep, they need to beat Sam Houston or that comes to pass. They need to start assigning non-D1 schools a numerical value (352?) for ranking purposes. No Keene. No Rayson. They may be the worst team in the MAC this year other than the team from Oxford. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 7/29/2017 11:03:09 PM  Yeah I'm not counting on you the red mess from fiami being totally bad just yet. I think coach has his hands full and his coaching choices and staff have been less than stellar but I think he has the desire and the chops to make a competitor over there never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 8/2/2017 4:32:05 PM  OUVan wrote: CMU just released their schedule and it may be the worst MAC schedule I've ever seen (KenPom ranking added for context): Northwood (non-D1) Siena Heights (non-D1) at Michigan (20) Eureka College (non-D1) at Great Alaska Shootout, TBA Jackson State (329) Montana State (239) Tennessee Tech (257) at Southern Utah (333) at UMKC (219) SIU Edwardsville (318) Lawrence Tech (non-D1) Great Alaska Shootout Game 1 vs Sam Houston State (234) Game 2 vs Cal Poly (306)/College of Charleston (89) Game 3 (one of the following teams) Idaho (216) Santa Clara (126) CSU Bakersfield (90) Alaska Anchorage (non-D1) This is precisely where that home game mandate is a killer for the MAC. One non-D1 is one thing. FOUR non-D1 games is absurd. The folks in Cleveland have to demand better of CMU and others who schedule like this. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 8/2/2017 4:50:47 PM  I would be inclined to mail my season ticket application back empty with that schedule. Back to Top bshot44 General User Member Since: 2/12/2012 Post Count: 2,211 Status: Offline     RE: 16-17 Non-conference schedule    Posted: 8/9/2017 3:38:37 PM  It's out. https://www.athensmessenger.com/sports/ohiouniversity/ohi... 2017 Ohio Men’s Basketball Non-Conference schedule Date;Opponent Nov. 4;CAPITAL (exhibition) Nov. 11;ALABAMA A&M Nov. 16;vs Clemson* Nov. 17;Dayton/Hofstra* Nov. 19;tbd* Nov. 24;MOUNT ST. MARY’S Nov. 28;IONA Dec. 1;COPPIN ST. Dec. 7;at Maryland Dec. 10;WESTERN KENTUCKY Dec. 16;at Marshall Dec. 20;PRAIRIE VIEW A&M Dec. 29;NW OHIO^ HOME GAMES IN ALL CAPS * — Games are part of the Charleston Classic ^ — NW Ohio is a non-Division I program Some real DOGS from the SWAC...disappointng. Like at Maryland and getting MSM, WKU & Iona at home. All in all...it's okay...not great. Hate to see the four total trash games...seems like two too many ... but Saul tried to justify it with roster changes as reason. What was reason last year with experienced team? Seems like more hot air. This is what we can pretty much expect in non-conference schedules is my guess. Not at-large worthy...but better than CMU garbage Back to Top Showing Replies:   76 - 100  of 158 Posts Jump to Page:   < Previous    1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7    Next > View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 291 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 290 Guests 1 Registered User:   WxM There are no other users looking at this page.

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