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To improve as a basketball conference and become a two bid league, the MAC can't also compete at the BCS level in football. Gonzaga, VCU, Wichita State, Butler, Creighton, Dayton, Xavier, St. Mary's, Richmond, George Mason, and on and on and on all have something in common. To become a two bid league you need to spend more money. To spend more money you need to stop spending so much money on football. We're not even eligible for a national championship in football. But we still want to act like we're on par with Ohio State. The best place for OU to be is putting more resources into basketball and fewer into football. We could be a perennial playoff team in FCS and competing for one of multiple bids in basketball year in and year out. Instead we're content being a middling team, playing for little of consequence, and eating scraps that the others don't want. The MAC is paid a handsome sum for the most part to participate as one of 120ish schools in FBS FB. Why would they want to walk away from that in order to not get paid to be one of 350ish schools in D1 BB? (asking for a friend) And to your point, we already spend more than St. Mary's, who you cite above, so is FB really a problem? 122) Ohio University-Main Campus 3,101,150 123) University of Akron Main Campus 3,088,920 124) Siena College 3,083,128 125) New Mexico State University-Main Campus 3,003,045 126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 Outside of Akron, we spend 33% to 100% more than our MAC brethren, so is our perceived lack of spending on MBB really standing in the way of our success, or are we failing to maximize our performance versus our spend in MBB? Do you have evidence/data that proves that Men's Basketball is a more valuable marketing investment than FB? OHIO spends in the middle of the MAC in FB budget, and in the lower third in FBS, yet we seem to always find ourselves on television seven to ten times a year, so relatively speaking, isn't that a valuable use of marketing funds? I've been in the "we spend too much on football" camp before, though I have no data to support my biased opinion that basketball would be better than football. My logic, generally speaking, has been about the expenses side of football compared to basketball (much larger number of coaches & staff, facilities, and of course scholarship expense). That said, your point about a marketing tool is a great one. If there's a way to quantify it, that would be awesome. Also, the comment about "The MAC is paid a handsome sum" is something I'd like to delve into. Obviously, it's safe to admit that the MAC TV deal with ESPN starts with weeknight football games. But that's not the only thing they cover. Since we argue & discuss this on here often, it would be awesome if we had some real data to argue with. Anyone know of where to find it? Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/26/2017 4:04:58 PM  D.A. wrote: And to your point, we already spend more than St. Mary's, who you cite above, so is FB really a problem? 122) Ohio University-Main Campus 3,101,150 123) University of Akron Main Campus 3,088,920 124) Siena College 3,083,128 125) New Mexico State University-Main Campus 3,003,045 126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 Saint Mary's has also been able to retain their coach at a reasonable price through all this. Money is a huge factor in college basketball success but it's not the only factor. If John Groce had decided to stay at the same price Randy Bennett receives ($550K) where do you think this program would be after the Caris LeVert/Evan Bradds era? Back to Top Mark Lembright '85 General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Highland Heights, OH Post Count: 2,447 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/26/2017 4:47:30 PM  OU_Country wrote: D.A. wrote: Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: The solution here is actually a simple one, but requires a step nobody will be willing to take. To improve as a basketball conference and become a two bid league, the MAC can't also compete at the BCS level in football. Gonzaga, VCU, Wichita State, Butler, Creighton, Dayton, Xavier, St. Mary's, Richmond, George Mason, and on and on and on all have something in common. To become a two bid league you need to spend more money. To spend more money you need to stop spending so much money on football. We're not even eligible for a national championship in football. But we still want to act like we're on par with Ohio State. The best place for OU to be is putting more resources into basketball and fewer into football. We could be a perennial playoff team in FCS and competing for one of multiple bids in basketball year in and year out. Instead we're content being a middling team, playing for little of consequence, and eating scraps that the others don't want. The MAC is paid a handsome sum for the most part to participate as one of 120ish schools in FBS FB. Why would they want to walk away from that in order to not get paid to be one of 350ish schools in D1 BB? (asking for a friend) And to your point, we already spend more than St. Mary's, who you cite above, so is FB really a problem? 122) Ohio University-Main Campus 3,101,150 123) University of Akron Main Campus 3,088,920 124) Siena College 3,083,128 125) New Mexico State University-Main Campus 3,003,045 126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 Outside of Akron, we spend 33% to 100% more than our MAC brethren, so is our perceived lack of spending on MBB really standing in the way of our success, or are we failing to maximize our performance versus our spend in MBB? Do you have evidence/data that proves that Men's Basketball is a more valuable marketing investment than FB? OHIO spends in the middle of the MAC in FB budget, and in the lower third in FBS, yet we seem to always find ourselves on television seven to ten times a year, so relatively speaking, isn't that a valuable use of marketing funds? I've been in the "we spend too much on football" camp before, though I have no data to support my biased opinion that basketball would be better than football. My logic, generally speaking, has been about the expenses side of football compared to basketball (much larger number of coaches & staff, facilities, and of course scholarship expense). That said, your point about a marketing tool is a great one. If there's a way to quantify it, that would be awesome. Also, the comment about "The MAC is paid a handsome sum" is something I'd like to delve into. Obviously, it's safe to admit that the MAC TV deal with ESPN starts with weeknight football games. But that's not the only thing they cover. Since we argue & discuss this on here often, it would be awesome if we had some real data to argue with. Anyone know of where to find it? If its football data you need, I'm sure L.C. could find it for you! Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,925 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/26/2017 9:19:14 PM  Antino Jackson committed to New Mexico. Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/26/2017 11:27:28 PM  cbus cat fan wrote: I haven't seen this gentleman in five years since his retirement. However, he did leave me with an interesting thought. He was witnessing the rise of MAC sports on cable TV and though happy warned that we could never win the arms race against the big time conferences. He warned that we could get to a point where we might seem close to enough to grab the ring only to lose ground, much like that carnival ride (the name escapes me) where kids and adults try to push their compartment car over the top. Sadly, most fall just short and end up taking a big drop backward. The athletic department 5 years ago appeared to have interest in taking it as far as what it could in the arms race. Ticket prices were raised and a higher investment level for salaries. The idea of naming rights for The Convo and Peden. That was all at the top of the sports bubble. It's now about retaining what we built with reduced student fees. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/26/2017 11:29:36 PM  OUVan wrote: D.A. wrote: And to your point, we already spend more than St. Mary's, who you cite above, so is FB really a problem? 122) Ohio University-Main Campus 3,101,150 123) University of Akron Main Campus 3,088,920 124) Siena College 3,083,128 125) New Mexico State University-Main Campus 3,003,045 126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 Saint Mary's has also been able to retain their coach at a reasonable price through all this. Money is a huge factor in college basketball success but it's not the only factor. If John Groce had decided to stay at the same price Randy Bennett receives ($550K) where do you think this program would be after the Caris LeVert/Evan Bradds era? Groce if I recall was offered 700k to stay Ohio and didn't take it. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/26/2017 11:52:42 PM  OU_Country wrote: D.A. wrote: Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: The solution here is actually a simple one, but requires a step nobody will be willing to take. To improve as a basketball conference and become a two bid league, the MAC can't also compete at the BCS level in football. Gonzaga, VCU, Wichita State, Butler, Creighton, Dayton, Xavier, St. Mary's, Richmond, George Mason, and on and on and on all have something in common. To become a two bid league you need to spend more money. To spend more money you need to stop spending so much money on football. We're not even eligible for a national championship in football. But we still want to act like we're on par with Ohio State. The best place for OU to be is putting more resources into basketball and fewer into football. We could be a perennial playoff team in FCS and competing for one of multiple bids in basketball year in and year out. Instead we're content being a middling team, playing for little of consequence, and eating scraps that the others don't want. The MAC is paid a handsome sum for the most part to participate as one of 120ish schools in FBS FB. Why would they want to walk away from that in order to not get paid to be one of 350ish schools in D1 BB? (asking for a friend) And to your point, we already spend more than St. Mary's, who you cite above, so is FB really a problem? 122) Ohio University-Main Campus 3,101,150 123) University of Akron Main Campus 3,088,920 124) Siena College 3,083,128 125) New Mexico State University-Main Campus 3,003,045 126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 Outside of Akron, we spend 33% to 100% more than our MAC brethren, so is our perceived lack of spending on MBB really standing in the way of our success, or are we failing to maximize our performance versus our spend in MBB? Do you have evidence/data that proves that Men's Basketball is a more valuable marketing investment than FB? OHIO spends in the middle of the MAC in FB budget, and in the lower third in FBS, yet we seem to always find ourselves on television seven to ten times a year, so relatively speaking, isn't that a valuable use of marketing funds? I've been in the "we spend too much on football" camp before, though I have no data to support my biased opinion that basketball would be better than football. My logic, generally speaking, has been about the expenses side of football compared to basketball (much larger number of coaches & staff, facilities, and of course scholarship expense). That said, your point about a marketing tool is a great one. If there's a way to quantify it, that would be awesome. Also, the comment about "The MAC is paid a handsome sum" is something I'd like to delve into. Obviously, it's safe to admit that the MAC TV deal with ESPN starts with weeknight football games. But that's not the only thing they cover. Since we argue & discuss this on here often, it would be awesome if we had some real data to argue with. Anyone know of where to find it? There is not much to argue. G5 conferences take in $18 million a year on average from the CFP. That doesn't count academic money another $300k a school as a bonus for a high enough APR score. Then making a CFP bowl the participating conference picks up another $4 million payday. CFP is owned by ESPN so its another ESPN revenue source in addition to the MAC TV deal. Total TV money is about $3 million per MAC school. Move to FCS and that money goes away and other football revenues reduce significantly. Marketing dollars are smaller for example at FCS. The two best things about Ohio's athletic department are The Convo and FBS membership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Football_Playoff Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 9:39:36 AM  Uncle Wes wrote: OUVan wrote: D.A. wrote: And to your point, we already spend more than St. Mary's, who you cite above, so is FB really a problem? 122) Ohio University-Main Campus 3,101,150 123) University of Akron Main Campus 3,088,920 124) Siena College 3,083,128 125) New Mexico State University-Main Campus 3,003,045 126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 Saint Mary's has also been able to retain their coach at a reasonable price through all this. Money is a huge factor in college basketball success but it's not the only factor. If John Groce had decided to stay at the same price Randy Bennett receives ($550K) where do you think this program would be after the Caris LeVert/Evan Bradds era? Groce if I recall was offered 700k to stay Ohio and didn't take it. Just under that but it points to how lucky you have to be to get a coach that isn't looking for that brass ring as their number one priority. And if you can't find that you have to be really good (and lucky) with your hires. Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 10:30:01 AM  I remember when Grobe left, he said he hated to go, but he had to take the job, his assistants were getting twice their salary by going to Wake Forest. Sometimes the pressure forces people to leave. I respect Groce because he did not take DJ from us. Last Edited: 4/27/2017 10:31:10 AM by allen Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 6,912 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 12:39:30 PM  I'm wondering if adding two more scholarships across Division I (to a nice number of 15) would do anything to help ease the pain of all these transfers for mid-majors. Obviously the budgets then increase, which means you probably have to do the same for women as well to adhere to Title IX. Schools would have more flexibility in recruiting and a grad transfer or mass exodus (cough, Memphis, cough) wouldn't put in as bad of a bind. Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,925 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 1:03:11 PM  GoCats105 wrote: I'm wondering if adding two more scholarships across Division I (to a nice number of 15) would do anything to help ease the pain of all these transfers for mid-majors. Obviously the budgets then increase, which means you probably have to do the same for women as well to adhere to Title IX. Schools would have more flexibility in recruiting and a grad transfer or mass exodus (cough, Memphis, cough) wouldn't put in as bad of a bind. I think it might have the opposite effect. More scholarships available = fewer good players slip through the cracks. Also, it would mean more scholarship players who don't get playing time and end up transferring. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 2,992 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 1:11:15 PM  Is the MAC's best coach and several of its best players leaving just a one-time blip? Or is something bigger going on. Is the ease/acceptance of transferring these days and the permanent-one-bid-conference situation going to be a bigger issue going forward? Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,304 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 2:13:15 PM  I think the league is talking out of both sides of its mouth... they have the scheduling mandate about maximizing home games but still want teams to schedule tougher games. you can't do both unless you increase your revenue for home games. Even then it's not like it becomes easy to get good teams to visit you. We HAVE to take an anyone/anytime/anywhere approach. you want it, go prove it. Back to Top Campus Flow General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,952 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/27/2017 7:37:56 PM  No doubt. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/29/2017 10:21:07 PM  I wonder what would happen if hundreds then thousands of OU students sent in their tuition checks minus the student fee. Back to Top mcbin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 949 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/30/2017 8:53:26 PM  Alan Swank wrote: I wonder what would happen if hundreds then thousands of OU students sent in their tuition checks minus the student fee. They wouldn't get to schedule classes? Pretty sure I had to pay a parking ticket before I could do it once. Last Edited: 4/30/2017 8:55:27 PM by mcbin Back to Top perimeterpost General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 3,165 Status: Offline     RE: MAC Talent Exodus    Posted: 4/30/2017 11:02:48 PM  worth noting: 6 scholarship players left the Bobcats this spring, 5 of them left with a degree from Ohio University in hand. MY STATE. MY TEAM. 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