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Topic: RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Topic: RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

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bornacatfan
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Member Since: 8/3/2006
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/29/2017 5:40:57 PM

brucecuth wrote:

and by the way...

NCAA rules were changed a few years ago to allow coaches to work with their teams during the summer, and most players are now on campus taking classes and working out.

Wait a minute. Taking classes? So it now becomes easier for players who aren't transfers to earn the credits they need to graduate in three years and still have a fourth year of eligibility, with an opportunity to take advantage of grad transfer rules.

I look at our roster, and now I am very concerned about a particular sophomore to be. After the events of the past two weeks, I'll bet every underclassman, their families and "advisors" are looking at their options. You'd be a fool not to after what your leader, the guy the coach called the "alpha dog" did...

Was there an impression that weren't in summer school even when the coaches weren't allowed to work with them? I brought mine down in June of 07 right after HS graduation. Was the day off the old Ox Roast. Kvk got off the plane that day. They were there all Summer from then on.... He had a mid term the next day after helping Rhodes and ku clean their offices out and meet Groce and holtmann the next day. I think they carried 6 hours each summer session

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/29/2017 9:12:44 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

brucecuth wrote:

I think you've got your dates a bit confused Tom. The Ox Roast was at the end of the summer - the Saturday after summer football practice ended.

bornacatfan
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/29/2017 10:48:33 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

I think you've got your dates a bit confused Tom. The Ox Roast was at the end of the summer - the Saturday after summer football practice ended.

Well that's pretty possible. KVK came the day of the Ox Roast and I met you and Lou (and a number of great Bobcats that day) that day. Tommy and Devauhgn moved in with Mike Allen, Hester, Mo Pears, and Bert in early June for first summer session. In addition to classes, weights, open gyms all the new guys went over to help with a community event. http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/07030... Point being they are on campus as soon as HS is over till they are seniors. Thanks for the memory jog.

EDIT faces in the gallery http://www.ohiobobcats.com/view.gal?id=12940 Interesting to look back and see

Last Edited: 4/30/2017 7:13:04 PM by bornacatfan

Alan Swank
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/30/2017 1:20:54 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

I think you've got your dates a bit confused Tom. The Ox Roast was at the end of the summer - the Saturday after summer football practice ended.

Those Ox Roasts were a ton of fun - a real community event with lots of old timers spending the day cooking the meat, the late Jessie Vail finding 80 dozen ears of corn somewhere in Meigs County and everyone pitching in to clean up as we started the fall sports season. It got to the point that we were serving in excess of 700 people each year.

Last Edited: 4/30/2017 1:22:31 PM by Alan Swank

bshot44
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/1/2017 12:27:56 PM

Not to bump this topic.....but I just wonder this.

IF Antonio Campbell was granted a another year of eligibility by the NCAA and then he turned around and said, "Thanks, Ohio...but I'm out" and transferred to Rutgers....would everyone that supports Simmons move to UM support AC as well?

Just curious. Since Campbell did in fact graduate, he could be eligible to transfer if they granted him a another year....

Last Edited: 5/1/2017 12:28:06 PM by bshot44

The Better Ohio Bobcat
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Member Since: 3/28/2017
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/1/2017 5:00:19 PM

In my opinion Jaaron was just as good as DJ except for his passing.

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/2/2017 1:23:41 PM

The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:

In my opinion Jaaron was just as good as DJ except for his passing.

That's a pretty big "except".

bshot44
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/2/2017 3:11:38 PM

DJ Cooper - 1 school, 3-2 in NCAA Tourney, 1 MAC POY

Jaaron Simmons - 3 schools, 0-0 in NCAA Tourney, 0 MAC POY

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
Location: Cincinnati
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/2/2017 4:27:38 PM

bshot44 wrote:

Jaaron Simmons - 3 schools, 0-0 in NCAA Tourney, 0 MAC POY

Of course that second stat will probably change next year, but that won't make us feel any better.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/5/2017 12:26:28 PM

The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:

In my opinion Jaaron was just as good as DJ except for his passing.

"His passing" is what made DJ DJ. Jaaron is a really good point guard, but DJ put up numbers few will ever match. DJ also didn't have Tony Campbell to dish the ball to inside. Reggie was a pretty good player, but he was never a poty candidate. DJ also had better handles and didn't turn it over on the dribble nearly as often. DJ also stole the ball... a ton. Add in the aforementioned post season success... it's just not a comparison.

GoCats105
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/5/2017 1:29:28 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:

In my opinion Jaaron was just as good as DJ except for his passing.

The one thing I think Jaaron did better than DJ was he was stronger once he got to the rim and could finish more creatively. He had so many reverse layups with opposite hands that he finished behind the basket that left my jaw dropping wondering how he even got it up there. His outside shot was also a touch better than DJ, although DJ probably hit more "big shots" when it counted.

That all being said, Jaaron was a great PG for us. But DJ...you guys already know.

bshot44
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/5/2017 5:07:51 PM

Cooper should have #5 in the rafters....without question (assuming he graduates(d))

While Simmons had a couple good years, did anyone ever watch him thinking #2 should be in the Convo rafters?

I sure didn't. He was good.

Cooper was a GREAT Bobcat.

perimeterpost
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/5/2017 9:22:48 PM

career statistics for 2 Ohio PGs. One is a legend, the other one is Fredo. name them.

Player A - 36.2min, 15.7pts, .449 Tot%, .473 2pt%, .373 3pt%, .758 FT%, 3.5reb, 7.2asst, 0.9stl, 3.9TO, .652 tot winning %.

Player B - 33.8min, 14.5pts, .380 Tot%, .437 2pt%, .322 3pt%, .742 FT%, 4.3reb, 6.5asst, 2.3stl, 3.1TO, .657 tot winning %.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

oldkatz
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/6/2017 12:39:36 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Uh.....Drew Crabtree and Antonio Bisutti?????

"All my inside sources tell me I have no inside sources." Salvatore "money bucks" Mafiosiano.

JSF
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/7/2017 10:23:45 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

A Bobcat Love sighting. A Flomo sighting. Where's Slimmy???? JSF???

Well...

The short take: College basketball makes it hard to enjoy college basketball.
The longer take: The Mid-American Conference (and Ohio by association, though to a lesser extent) are in a long, protracted death spiral. Players of Simmons's quality may come though less often. The MAC is kinda bad, Ohio is kinda mediocre, and ultimately it shouldn't surprise anyone if a really good program comes calling for someone and they decide to leave. What does OU have over Michigan? Weather? A better band?

Since 2002, here is Ohio's Kenpom numbers by year: 113, 168, 187, 85, 109, 125, 95, 169, 94, 150, 57, 82, 127, 232, 141, 105.

Since 2002, here's the MAC's Sagarin rankings by year: 11, 11, 15, 11, 13, 14, 12, 18, 15, 17, 15, 16, 12/19 (he started dividing by division to be difficult), 11/13, 13/14, 12/14.

Quite frankly, we've never been as good as we think we've been. And we can point to reasons or excuses... but you get to a point where that doesn't matter and all you have is the results. The MAC has had to fight furiously and make the best hires it possible could just to go to where it almost used to be... the problem is, the gap between, say, 8 and 11 is bigger than it was. And that gap is going to grow.

"This is all because of football!" Well, sure, but what do you mean? If you mean football is throwing trucks of money at middling power conference schools that enable them to spend on other programs, then yes, football is a factor here. If you mean the MAC and Ohio are throwing their money away on football and it's hurting basketball, I'm not so sure. I used to think that, but I'm looking at the Missouri Valley Conference. They don't have the football investment we do and they unquestionably have had more success than the MAC. Where did that get them? The loss of their best programs. Not sponsoring football seems to be less a vaccine than a palliative treatment that holds the pain off for a while. UNI is still kicking around (for now), but the MVC's days as mid-major ascendants are done. The Atlantic 10 isn't what it used to be, either, after the Big East split up. They don't play football either, but they have money. (I know most of these schools play football in some form; I'm talking about 1-A fubaw here.)

"Jim Christian ruined our opportunity in 2013!" Not really. First, there was no guarantee John Groce even gets us back to the tournament. We just don't know. Perhaps he holds practice at a different hour and DJ breaks his foot and the whole thing is shot. We probably lose to BG or something and don't go 14-2 in the conference. We probably don't beat Memphis anyway and we're hoping to win in Cleveland like always and who knows what happens on any given night? And if we do repeat, who do we draw? VCU would've licked us, too. Fact of the matter is, our tournament draw in 2012 was WAY more helpful than we had any reason to hope for. There's so much luck that goes into this and that's not a thing many want to admit.

Groce leaving was something largely beyond our control. So let's say Christian gets us back to the dance and we win another game or two. What after that? I don't see his recruiting getting and better. Here's the secret for a mid-major to rise to the national stage: You have to do it for more than one recruiting cycle. Every conference that's not a bottom feeder has a team that was really good for a couple years, then fell back to the back. There wasn't another DJ Cooper walking through that door. People point to Gonzaga and Butler. What they did was follow a once-in-a-generation coach with a once-in-a-lifetime coach who could bring in a superstar player to keep the momentum going. Both schools had to made *several* good runs in the tournament to be a national player. Seeing as we can count on one hand how many times that's happened at our level, appreciate how rare that is. It just wasn't going to happen in Athens, no matter how awesome it would be.

We're something like #120 in spending. And with some peaks and valleys, that's pretty much where we've been as a program. And that's not bad! There's a lot of debate on Saul as a coach. I think he's pretty good and most of the time we'll be in the high double digits or the low triple digits. Maybe one year we catch fire and get into the top 60 or something. I'm not expecting that as the norm because the history suggests that's not realistic.

So that's where we are: An OK program in a decidedly unexciting conference. And that's where we've been for a long time, if not always. There's two things to do about it: Find an Appalachian T. Boone Pickens or enjoy it for what it is. Most programs would trade their history for ours. Don't lose sight of that. We've gotten to witness some really cool stuff! I'm going to root for Ohio, be happy when they win, and be sad for a little bit when they lose. If that's not good enough for you, that's your right. Just be prepared to put something behind your words. And, for Heaven's sake, Golden Rule. What happened here? Everything here is just bitter fighting, trolling, and arguing. That's not what Bobcat Attack was. People wonder why some don't come around anymore. Maybe it's because they don't recognize the place and it doesn't seem like a good use of time or energy. That goes to the people here AND our former players. I hope Jaaron does well at Michigan; I think it makes us look better when our people succeed in other places rather than fail.

Just... just hope they find a way to replace that ESPN money when it runs out. Because it's going to get *real* ugly otherwise.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Maddog13
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/7/2017 11:43:49 PM

Well said, JSF.

OUVan
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 7:27:07 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

Post season record

Player A - 4-3 (MAC and CBI)

Player B - 13-6 (4-2 NCAA Tournament including win over Player A's Greener Pasture team)

GoCats105
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 8:53:43 AM

Well look at that, ask and you shall receive. Thanks for bringing some sanity back to the board, JSF.

Last Edited: 5/8/2017 8:54:30 AM by GoCats105

.
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 9:35:17 AM

I think we're all getting to the same conclusion, but it took different amounts of time. The MAC will be diminished, if not dissolved, in the coming years.

JSF's point about the MVC blowing up was one that struck me when I heard Valpo was joining. We always thought the goal was to build up a deep, talented conference with one or two nationally-recognized programs that made NCAA tournament appearances. What I didn't count on was that the way conferences expanded/shifted over the past decade meant that even if you did it perfectly, you'd just lose the best program in your conference and you'd be starting from scratch again.

The MVC did everything it possibly could to be a powerful basketball conference. Remember back in the mid-aughts when we were so excited to be playing Northern Iowa? That was a GET. We all posted we'd love to someday be invited into the conference. A decade later, would it even be that big of a step up from the MAC, with the losses of Creighton and Wichita State?

If Akron or Ohio had become a juggernaut, made back-to-back Sweet 16 runs and built a recruiting apparatus that made them a Baby Gonzaga...well, that program would've been poached. Keith Dambrot did everything he could to try to build one of those and that guy just waved the white flag a month ago and took the briefcase full of money after battling inevitable forces for a long time.

So, we learn to be happy on our little plot of basketball land here and try to build something sustainable, enjoyable and productive. That can still be done.

OUVan
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 9:53:21 AM

JSF wrote:

Just... just hope they find a way to replace that ESPN money when it runs out. Because it's going to get *real* ugly otherwise.

The thing is, and I said essentially this earlier, ugly is subjective and relative. We may get or be ugly on a national stage but the conference season is still a joy for me and will continue to be. If I had gone to American University I would be looking forward to the upcoming Patriot League season. Go Ohio!

brucecuth
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 11:16:54 AM

Brian Smith wrote:

Very insightful. In thinking about Gonzaga and Butler, two things come to mind. Both are private schools in conferences very much better than the MAC, and neither has a FBS football program. How that factors into their hoops success I cannot quantify, but I think it means something.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 1:41:31 PM

I basically agree with JSF and Brian Smith.

JSF, re the time line on MAC Sagarin ratings: it should be noted that this is out of 34 groups by the way Sagarin renders it. So the MAC ratings aren't bad overall. Those who can't see that are laboring under the delusion that the MAC is more than it is.

Interesting that you point out that the Sagarin gap in basketball between conferences 8 and 11 is growing. That's a key point. Being #11 out of 34 is still good, but not as good as it was 8 years ago. I would point to budgeting for basketball as the main reason. It's uncanny the correlation between budget rankings and Sagarin/kenpom rankings. And for conferences like the MAC, CUSA and Sunbelt, it's really difficult to escape the conclusion that it's because those conferences are trying to participate in the arms races in football and basketball simultaneously. I think the smart thing for those conferences to do is to pick either football or basketball, emphasize that sport by investing more money, and then put less money into the other sport. The alternative is struggling to maintain even mediocrity in both sports.

Last Edited: 5/8/2017 1:57:18 PM by Jeff McKinney

OU_Country
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 2:01:09 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I basically agree with JSF and Brian Smith.

I'll co-sign that. In particular, he makes great points about realistic expectations since 2010-2012, and this:

"What happened here? Everything here is just bitter fighting, trolling, and arguing. That's not what Bobcat Attack was. People wonder why some don't come around anymore. Maybe it's because they don't recognize the place and it doesn't seem like a good use of time or energy. That goes to the people here AND our former players."

Worthwhile to consider if we're a part of the problem or the solution related to that statement.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 6:02:13 PM

Agree, JSF and OU Country. The admins and mods only have so much impact on the culture of BA. It's up to participants to make this forum what it should be.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 5/8/2017 11:54:38 PM

Very interesting posts, particularly from JSF. I truly wonder if anyone really saw the college sports arms race coming--say 15 years ago. We all know about the rise of college football and Nick Saban's $11,000,000 contract and his coordinators making over a million each. However, there are over 300+ Division I college basketball programs and many of the MAC's members are barely in the top half of the 300+.

If this is indeed an arms race a la the old Cold War then the MAC is increasingly just trying to get some notice from the the superpowers. In the old days the USA and USSR tried to persuade new allies to join. The non-aligned movement had some 100 members and bigger countries like India could quickly get the attention of the Super Powers. However, smaller nations rarely caught the attention of Moscow or Washington unless there was some big geo-political threat or help they could provide.

Increasingly, the only time we get attention is when one of the super power conferences notices one of our coaches and or graduate eligible players. They won't schedule us and increasingly it seems are engaging in some kind of old fashion Dean Smith Four Corners stall until the next TV deal makes us increasingly more irrelevant in their eyes. The descending Georgetown's of the world fear the rising schools like Dayton. Sadly, I don't see anyone fearing a rising MAC school.

It still could happen. A young coach might take Coach Danny Nee's words to heart and realize that he could have built a Final Four contender if he had stayed. It will take something like that to happen. In the meantime, let's enjoy what we have and hope some small miracles come to Athens and other MAC schools.

Last Edited: 5/9/2017 12:08:27 AM by cbus cat fan

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