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Topic: RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Topic: RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

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GraffZ06
General User

Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 1,904

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 9:46:32 PM

If anybody thinks Simmons is going to Ann Arbor to get a "Master's Degree" you probably also thought you could keep your doctor. This is about the NBA/his pro career period.

I'd bet my house he doesn't finish that degree - and additionally that he doesn't even ATTEMPT to. It's a complete and total sham. Biggest question will be what fake degree program he decides to enroll in.

Not his fault the rules are terrible.

I don't know how the NCAA fixes it though. I support the idea that a kid who graduated and honestly wants to attend a different grad school (and subsequently play athletics there - though how many honest grad students have the time to play collegiate athletics....aren't they usually stuck in a lab doing research, taking courses, publishing and you know, getting an advanced degree? But I digress.) shouldn't be punished for that decision. At the same time - it's become a loophole the size of our southern border. But I don't know how the NCAA can know whether they will be honest students or use it as a sham BEFORE they let it play out.

Maybe the answer truly is make them sit a year too. Most master's degrees are 2 year deals so it's not like the guy would already have finished his master's degree in the year he had to sit out.

BobcatSports
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Member Since: 2/2/2006
Post Count: 1,068

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 9:47:01 PM

I've thought it's been obvious that after our season ended he was leaving. While I don't have to like it, he had the right according to the rules of the NCAA today.

Dambrot just flushed Akron for greater fame and fortune mainly due to the MAC being a perinial one-trick pony. Dambrot has time and a load of money no matter how his decision works out.

Simmons has ONE year left of D1 bball. Truth be told he has a far better chance of getting his "dance" card punched at UM than hoping OHIO wins 3-4 March games in Cleveland .

I congratulate him on his graduation and thank him for all his efforts while he was here.

FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,118

Status: Offline

RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 9:47:22 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I find the criticism of him here to be misguided, and feel like it reflects poorly on OU and our fans. Accusing Simmons of being a traitor, and stating that he "should be dead to us" completely ignores the idea of what it is to be a student athlete. Simmons got his degree from Ohio University and represented us well on the court while he was here.

As a graduate, he's earned the right to pursue whatever path he feels set him up for the best shot at professional success, and he's done that. We should wish him the best and move on.

I partly disagree. I think criticizing the decision to go to Michigan is fair. The rest I agree with. I'm not wishing him the best. I'm not wishing him ill personally. I just hope they miss the tournament. ;)

Re: "he should be dead to us", since I used that phrase, I was merely saying if a person felt that way about Coach Groce, then they should feel equally that way about Jaaron.

Bottom line for many of us is that we hate the rule that allows it.

Simmons has proven everything he can prove in the MAC.

Disagree....
Did he win MAC Player of the Year: NO
Did his team play in the NCAA Tournament: NO
Did his team win a MAC Tournament Championship: NO
Did his team win a MAC Regular Season Championship: NO
Did he dribble out the clock down 2 with 4 seconds left in a MAC Tournament game: YES

Seems to me #2 still had plenty to prove in the MAC.

Does winning MAC player guarantee improved NBA prospects: NO
Does playing in the NCAA Tournament guarantee improved draft prospect: NO
Does winning a MAC Tournament Championship guarantee improved draft prospects: NO
Does winning a MAC Regular Season Championship guarantee improved draft prospects: NO
Are you overly bitter about the decisions of a 22 year old you've never met: YES

If an Economics major at OU graduated and chose to purse a Masters at Michigan instead of OU, nobody would nitpick about a test he failed, or publicly criticize him. These are either student athletes or they aren't.

Sorry...Simmons is a 22 year old Division-One basketball player. He's not playing in the 5th grade where everyone gets a participation trophy. We are allowed to make judgements and observations when it comes to collegiate teams and players. And if you think Jaaron is going to Michigan to get his Masters degree, then I have some great land in the Bahamas to sell you.

You're right, you're allowed to make judgments about collegiate players. And I'm allowed to criticize your judgments about Jaaron Simmons for being embarrassing. You're reacting like a high schooler who just got dumped; nitpicking flaws, pointing out lack of accomplishments, etc. And why? Because somebody graduated from Ohio Iniversity and made a decision about the next step in his life that you disagree with.

Your attitude towards Simmons says far more about you than it does about him.

Have you read this board today? Most folks seem to feel the way I do about this decision. And I can't help the fact that his last play in the green and white was dribbling out the clock against Kent State. That's what most people will remember...fair or not. And Michigan won't get this kid to the NBA. 99% of people here know that's not going to happen. If DJ Cooper can't make it, #2 won't either.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 4,118

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 9:51:03 PM

cbus cat fan wrote:

He made too many unforced dribble drives in the paint, not to mention the unforgettable way our season ended.

Careful Cbus....folks get snowflake sensitive when you bring up #2 and his final possession in an OHIO uniform.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

mid70sbobcat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 655

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 10:01:35 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Simmons has proven everything he can prove in the MAC.

Good post!!

To me an analogy is Simmons could be a guy doing an internship and this year has a better opportunity that may (not 'will') possibly lead him to better opportunities down the road when he finishes any academic endeavors. Not terribly different than both Groce and Christian leaving for better (higher paying) opportunities that most people in 'ordinary' careers might also do.

But some people hold grudges about those who pursue potentially more lucrative opportunity. And for someone to claim he 'ran out the clock in our final game' shows how clueless they are. His reaction when we didn't get a shot off showed total exasperation and frustration. Sadly, some supposed adults apparently enjoy finding fault with athletes when they make choices that don't meet the desires of said posters.

lovebobcat
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Member Since: 12/23/2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 505

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 10:36:46 PM

Put me in the not-mad-at-Jaaron camp, because if I was him, I might also be lured by the bright lights of the Big Ten. He thinks this will increase his chances at making the NBA, and I get that. He has played by the rules, and we'll see if it works to his benefit.

I'm mad at the NCAA for the damn grad transfer rule. It's one more way to keep mid-majors under the thumb of the P5 schools. Maybe it wasn't intended that way, but that's what it has wrought. This story even has Mike Krzyzewski saying, "So many of these mid-majors are getting crushed."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17...

As soon as Jaaron started off well his sophomore year, I saw this day coming. It just sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks.

I wish Jaaron well, because he has represented our university well and is graduating. He simply availed himself of the way-too-easy-transfer situation for grads. And we fans of a mid-major school are left with the wind knocked out of us.

bornacatfan
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Member Since: 8/3/2006
Post Count: 5,706

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 11:10:42 PM

I don't have much of an opine on JS.

My thought all along was that he was going to fool everyone and end up overseas. I did not see anything anywhere from any of my contacts, feeds or sources that he even tested the waters or did the normal things guys are looking at with the NBA evaluators.

I though sure he would walk, get the diploma then go get the money. He will do well overseas, his style fits FIBA well. Chandler Thompson from Ball State made a couple of dozen Million over the years. JS will do well if he can handle the stress of being away from the states 9 months a year. They will love him over there...especially if he fixes that shot and consistently can make defenders come out on him...then he will be able to penetrate more effectively. Just really surprised he did not sign a contract and get on a plane.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Maddog13
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Post Count: 597

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/25/2017 11:56:02 PM

I am little confused, if Simmons had declared for the NBA, would people be so upset? How about if he went to Europe in exchange for big money? I mean, these young men are one injury away from the end of their playing careers, so what is available to you and how do you make the best of it? Why wouldn't a kid from the MAC, who has the talent, go play for one of the major conferences? If Simmons performs well there, he has made a great move. If not, he can join a majority of players who will need to make their money in a different profession. If he stays at Ohio, how does that benefit his possibility of moving up in basketball?

As for Saul, his job is to win games. Period. That also includes winning MAC championships, if, in fact, that elevates the program. Coach Solich elevated the program by merely coming to Ohio due to his already legendary status in the College Football world, so he is probably the only one who can get away with not winning a MAC championship. However, even his tenure seems to be wearing thin as evidenced by some of the grumbling over on the football message board.

The only chance that this MAC team has of being relevant outside of Southeastern Ohio is to play better as a team than any one individual, and to start playing some of these national powerhouses on their own courts and beating them. This program will never improve as long as they are playing people that they should easily beat, especially when they don't end up beating them.

PS: "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 1:27:29 AM

Maddog13 wrote:

I'll take a stab at this.

Maddog13 wrote:

I am little confused, if Simmons had declared for the NBA, would people be so upset? How about if he went to Europe in exchange for big money? ... Why wouldn't a kid from the MAC, who has the talent, go play for one of the major conferences?

You're drawing a false equivalency, leaving Ohio University to play professional ball (NBA/Europe) is not the same as leaving to play for another university. The difference should be obvious.

Maddog13 wrote:

Why wouldn't a kid from the MAC, who has the talent, go play for one of the major conferences?

There are lots of reasons. I'll name a few:
- You can achieve your goals in the MAC.
- This isn't football, the divide isn't as large.
- What about all this talk about brotherhood, and commitment to each other and the team? What about the coach giving you the keys to the program and letting you do whatever you want, while praising you effusively every chance he gets? Doesn't that count for something?

Maddog13 wrote:

If he stays at Ohio, how does that benefit his possibility of moving up in basketball?

Ask Tony Campbell. If given the chance he's coming back for one more year. And unlike Simmons, Campbell is considered a legitimate NBA prospect. The MAC and Ohio University aren't going to prevent a player who is good enough to play in the NBA from doing so. Don't take my word for it though, ask Mo Ndour.

Maddog13 wrote:

As for Saul, his job is to win games. Period. That also includes winning MAC championships, if, in fact, that elevates the program. Coach Solich elevated the program by merely coming to Ohio due to his already legendary status in the College Football world, so he is probably the only one who can get away with not winning a MAC championship. However, even his tenure seems to be wearing thin as evidenced by some of the grumbling over on the football message board.

And?

Maddog13 wrote:

The only chance that this MAC team has of being relevant outside of Southeastern Ohio is to play better as a team than any one individual, and to start playing some of these national powerhouses on their own courts and beating them. This program will never improve as long as they are playing people that they should easily beat, especially when they don't end up beating them. ..

you want a tougher OOC. So does Saul, he's working on it.

Maddog13 wrote:

PS: "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

whats next, am I going to be asked to talk to the hand?

Last Edited: 4/26/2017 1:28:31 AM by perimeterpost

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Maddog13
General User

Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Post Count: 597

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 8:09:14 AM

"You're drawing a false equivalency, leaving Ohio University to play professional ball (NBA/Europe) is not the same as leaving to play for another university. The difference should be obvious."

Disagree. Like it or not, having Michigan on your resume, especially if he plays well there, will elevate his draft potential considerably.

"There are lots of reasons. I'll name a few:
- You can achieve your goals in the MAC."
Simmons got his degree and took his basketball career here as far as he probably can go.

- "This isn't football, the divide isn't as large."

Yeah, I guess that is why we are constantly making it into the top sixteen in the NCAA tournament.

- "What about all this talk about brotherhood, and commitment to each other and the team?"

New season. New Chapter in his life.

"What about the coach giving you the keys to the program and letting you do whatever you want, while praising you effusively every chance he gets?"

Never give the keys of your car to an adolescent.

"Doesn't that count for something?"

Nope. The world has changed, my friend, especially when you add potential dollars into the equation.

"Ask Tony Campbell. If given the chance he's coming back for one more year. And unlike Simmons, Campbell is considered a legitimate NBA prospect. The MAC and Ohio University aren't going to prevent a player who is good enough to play in the NBA from doing so. Don't take my word for it though, ask Mo Ndour."

This, you may have a point about. However, Campbell, Ndour, and a certain Gary Trent fall into that category of being big and physical players. I think the NBA would be interested in them, even if they were playing in Antarctica. A point guard like Simmons though would benefit from having NBA prospects around him to show that he has the potential of elevating their game, which is what he would be expected to do in the pros.

"And?"

Simmons leaving should not impact the chances of the program. When Campbell went down last year, the team pulled it together and went on without him.

"you want a tougher OOC. So does Saul, he's working on it."

I'll have to take your word for that, because recent years have shown that this program has moved away from that. Good for him, if, in fact, he wants to change that.

"whats next, am I going to be asked to talk to the hand?"

Sure, if you need to be.

Last Edited: 4/26/2017 8:27:39 AM by Maddog13

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 8:14:54 AM

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Simmons has proven everything he can prove in the MAC.

Maddog13
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Location: Albuquerque, NM
Post Count: 597

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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 8:21:32 AM

[/QUOTE]

I have read the board today. In fact I started out here by disagreeing with the overall sentiment. I'm not sure appealing to the authority of crowds does you much of a favor here.

As for the NBA, I've already been clear on where I think Jaaron ends up. I also, for what it's worth, don't think he'll finish his Master's. My point is simply that he'll make progress towards one while also improving his professional basketball prospects whether in the NBA, China, or Europe. That's a win-win, and it's hard for me to find much reason to be upset by that. You disagree and think this tarnishes what Simmons did on the court here. You're welcome to think that, but it's a plainly emotional reaction that puts what you, as a fan, want ahead of an OU student's right to do what he thinks is best. It's fine to debate the finer points of whether or not it's actually for the best; it becomes embarrassing when instead you attack a 22 year old kid because he hurt your feelings, or whatever. With fans like you, why would he stay here?
[/QUOTE]

Bravo!

BillyTheCat
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 8:25:27 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

So, what "fake degree program" do you say our Grad Transfers have been not graduating from?

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 8:29:30 AM

Maddog13 wrote:

I have read the board today. In fact I started out here by disagreeing with the overall sentiment. I'm not sure appealing to the authority of crowds does you much of a favor here.

As for the NBA, I've already been clear on where I think Jaaron ends up. I also, for what it's worth, don't think he'll finish his Master's. My point is simply that he'll make progress towards one while also improving his professional basketball prospects whether in the NBA, China, or Europe. That's a win-win, and it's hard for me to find much reason to be upset by that. You disagree and think this tarnishes what Simmons did on the court here. You're welcome to think that, but it's a plainly emotional reaction that puts what you, as a fan, want ahead of an OU student's right to do what he thinks is best. It's fine to debate the finer points of whether or not it's actually for the best; it becomes embarrassing when instead you attack a 22 year old kid because he hurt your feelings, or whatever. With fans like you, why would he stay here?
[/QUOTE]

Bravo!

[/QUOTE]

And some of these comments are exactly why I refuse to listen to sports talk radio - irrational fans (not all of them but way too many for my tastes). In the end, this isn't about any of us but the young man. He made a career decision just like we all have made career decisions. Some turned out well and some didn't. Isn't that what growing up and getting a degree is all about - learning to make decisions and accepting the consequences?

BillyTheCat
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 8:36:56 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Maddog13 wrote:

Bravo!

[/QUOTE]

And some of these comments are exactly why I refuse to listen to sports talk radio - irrational fans (not all of them but way too many for my tastes). In the end, this isn't about any of us but the young man. He made a career decision just like we all have made career decisions. Some turned out well and some didn't. Isn't that what growing up and getting a degree is all about - learning to make decisions and accepting the consequences?
[/QUOTE]

+1

allen
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 9:05:59 AM

Jaaron did not have to leave, but he chose too. He could have been the MAC player of year, I hope he beats out Xavier Simpson and plays well. To the medi's claiming a moral because Michigan wanted him, we need to believe in our coaches and our school. We beat Michigan in the tournament. This was not a no brainer, we have a great school. Let's make something happen next year.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 10:21:24 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jaaron Simmons is not playing in the NBA so all those points are pretty much irrelevant. It does improve his chance of playing in the NCAA tournament however and that's an experience I'm sure every player would like to have. Jaaron is looking out for Jaaron and that's fine. Good for him, bad for us. But he's just not an NBA talent. He will do very well in Europe however.

OU_Country
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 10:41:32 AM

allen wrote:

More and more about belief and medi's, and moral victories. I'll try a different angle on this: May I kindly suggest you move on from typing this stuff? Everyone who's on here at least once a week is well aware of your wonky "help the players believe" opinions. Just let it be. Please. You're not selling anyone on it if you haven't already.

As for Jaaron, and beating out Simpson, it's something I also wondered about, and that we'll get to see play out.

OU_Country
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 11:15:18 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Agree with you Graff on the let them sit out a year theory. I've got no problem with guys transferring, even in this case. I have a problem with them being immediately eligible, other than specific situations, such as coaches leaving.

I don't know if the grad transfers have an affect on APR or not, but I'd imagine they do. Taking a hit to APR is something that should happen if a grad transfer doesn't make what we'd call normal progress to the degree.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 11:19:25 AM

OUVan wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Yes, I already said I don't think he's an NBA player. But that doesn't nullify the points, because there's no reason Simmons shouldn't do everything he can to improve his chances if that's his goal.

allen
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 11:22:26 AM

OU_Country wrote:

allen wrote:

Change doesn't come overnight my friend.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OUVan
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 11:23:27 AM

OU_Country wrote:

I don't know if the grad transfers have an affect on APR or not, but I'd imagine they do. Taking a hit to APR is something that should happen if a grad transfer doesn't make what we'd call normal progress to the degree.

By definition they don't hurt the APR since they have already graduated. It's a measurement on how likely a player is to graduate.

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 12:19:50 PM

As to whether Jaaron going to Michigan helps him get into the NBA any better than another season at OHIO would, I think we may have a test case. Caris Levert originally signed with OHIO out of HS. When our coach left, Caris opened back up his recruitment and went to Michigan. In his four years there, he suffered injuries, showed promise, but ultimately missed the better part of two seasons. Nonetheless, through exposure, he went to the NBA as a 1st round draft pick, selected as the 20th overall.

Do you think he would've had a better career at OHIO than did DJ or Tony? Maybe, but I doubt it, especially if the injuries had dogged him here like they did at Michigan. He only averaged 10.4 ppg at Michigan over his career, only 3 rebounds a game. Do his numbers jump out more than Tony's, a guy who nearly averaged a double-double over his last two years while also developing an outside shot? I don't think so. Yet I don't think any of us think that Tony would be a top 20 pick at OHIO. If he put those numbers up at Michigan, would he be? I think possibly.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 12:23:54 PM

finnOhio wrote:

DJ/Tony just don't have NBA bodies. Even at Michigan they'd have been, at best, second round flyers. Neither can guard a single NBA position.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan

Posted: 4/26/2017 12:41:05 PM

OU_Country wrote:

GraffZ06 wrote:

The only thing that matters to the APR and the Grad transfer is that the student graduated. This is just eligibility after their undergrad.

I am curious why you think a student should be able to play immediately after a coach leaves, but sit when a student does what they came to do and that is graduate.

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