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Topic:  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?

Topic:  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 12:11:39 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
For all the naysayers saying sports are down everywhere and students would rather look at their phones than watch a basketball game, please tell that to the students at Grand Canyon University. Look how engaged they are! Look how organized they are! You're telling me Ohio can't get like this? We've certainly seen it before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-VIvIHrs74&t=32s

Freaking Grand Canyon University.

I think this video also goes hand in hand with the spicing up the Convo talk. There's no reason the Convo shouldn't have LED scorer's tables yet. We look so old right now. Old and tired. I love the Convo, but cmon. It's time to step up a little bit.


Checkbook.



Checkbook not being 'wasted' on D1 football that may be nothing more than a footnote in the modern D1 football era. I'd be interested to compare what they spend on hoops to what Ohio (and other MAC schools) spends on football + men's basketball, and what each school gets for it respectively.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 1:15:41 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:

Did you read the article? All their eggs are in the hoops basket. No football. Massive amounts of money to lure in big-name opponents, famous names running the program, the glitter and novelty of a new arena. It's the face of marketing for the school and they have no limits on spending -- and they're doing it in one of the 15 largest markets in the U.S. It's ridiculous to compare the two places and programs.

Edit: Here's an argument against even wanting to be like them: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/109068712/grand-cany...


Maybe Ridiculous to compare, but nothing wrong with seeing some things they're doing and mimic them.



There are some great thoughts in here, and some great stories with memories of Dan Lowe.

There are a few things I think of that *could* change the dynamic. First and foremost, I think modern Audio/Video inside the arena changes everything. Part of getting people to a game is making it socially cool. Socially cool is involving Twitter/Snapchat/Facebook, etc. Involving people with social media Before, During and After the game is much, much, much more easily done with video boards and a modern audio system.

Remember the thread about in-game music? Involve people with their phones to vote on the music played in the second half, or at the next game. There's so much that can be done when an arena has current tech. Consider that huge percentage of our students that come from Columbus and Cleveland that see the experiences in pro arenas in their home towns. Make it closer to that and it feels bigger-time, something that seems to matter more and more.

Wanna see something else cool that having modern A/V allows for? Check out what the Wolverines are doing at the Crisler Center (10sec mark):

https://youtu.be/76hYqf9oqYM

They have an app for games call the Michigan Lights App. It coordinates the pre-game light show and music to your phone if you have the app on.

Last Edited: 2/21/2017 1:16:48 PM by OU_Country
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 3:11:32 PM 
OU_Country wrote:


Maybe Ridiculous to compare, but nothing wrong with seeing some things they're doing and mimic them.





The ridiculousness is both in the comparison and trying to "keep up" with them. One report I read said that Thunder Dan is pulling in $1.5 million a year. They don't have football. They're in a massive city. They're using the men's basketball team as the face of the university in a manner than Ohio never would do even if it had the budget. Their goal seems to be to become the University of Phoenix in terms of profit while creating a sense of legitimacy that a "real" university with an actual campus confers. Seeing Grand Canyon University playing Duke on the ESPN ticker provides instant cache and builds brand awareness among hundreds of thousands of prospective online students.

As far as what they're doing to get students involved at the actual games, if there's something we can mimic that's viable and reasonable, sure, why not? But I think it probably helps to have an NBA team owner calling in favors to get things like a home-and-home with Louisville where Louisville pays $100,000 for the privilege! Can you imagine that scenario in Athens?
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 3:18:16 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OU_Country wrote:


Maybe Ridiculous to compare, but nothing wrong with seeing some things they're doing and mimic them.





The ridiculousness is both in the comparison and trying to "keep up" with them. One report I read said that Thunder Dan is pulling in $1.5 million a year. They don't have football. They're in a massive city. They're using the men's basketball team as the face of the university in a manner than Ohio never would do even if it had the budget. Their goal seems to be to become the University of Phoenix in terms of profit while creating a sense of legitimacy that a "real" university with an actual campus confers. Seeing Grand Canyon University playing Duke on the ESPN ticker provides instant cache and builds brand awareness among hundreds of thousands of prospective online students.

As far as what they're doing to get students involved at the actual games, if there's something we can mimic that's viable and reasonable, sure, why not? But I think it probably helps to have an NBA team owner calling in favors to get things like a home-and-home with Louisville where Louisville pays $100,000 for the privilege! Can you imagine that scenario in Athens?


In the dollars sense of things, I totally see your point. Paying a coach that much, or having that scheduling "advantage" aren't going to happen. Being a for profit university obviously isn't gonna happen.

But comparing game environment, arena amenities that attract fans and students is worth paying attention to. Finding the things that draw in the students, making the games feel more like one of the best places to be, those are things that can be done.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 3:22:02 PM 
How about this: you go to school for 4 years, why not support ALL the sports, theater and music events that your fellow students are involved in? It's not realistic to go to every event, but you get the idea. If you're not going to campus activities, why not just go to the University of Phoenix?

Last Edited: 2/21/2017 3:22:23 PM by giacomo
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 3:35:18 PM 
giacomo wrote:
How about this: you go to school for 4 years, why not support ALL the sports, theater and music events that your fellow students are involved in? It's not realistic to go to every event, but you get the idea. If you're not going to campus activities, why not just go to the University of Phoenix?


You make a fair point. The accessibility of online schools changes a lot of things.


That would be a VERY interesting poll for students. I can honestly tell you that, other than the 5-21 wilderness campaign, I rarely missed a men's basketball game in my five years in Athens. I went to maybe two women's games. To this day, I've never been to a volleyball game.

I was the classic leave at halftime guy when the football team wasn't good. When they were good, I didn't miss a game.

The one thing I miss by not living in Athens though: baseball games. We went to practically every Sat/Sun baseball game, and plenty in between classes on nice spring week days.

I never went to anything in "the arts" as a student. If I lived in Athens now, I would certainly do so. As a student I only cared about a few things: Class, work, girlfriend, beer/partying, sports. Times & interests change though.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 4:55:54 PM 
I suppose private funds for a scoreboard etc might be a possibility. However, if anyone thinks there is going to be big time spending for college athletics in Ohio's public colleges and universities, those days are just about gone. Below is a link to Governor Kasich's budget ideas about tuition freezes and free and reduced textbooks for certain situations. The thing about these proposals is there is bi-partisan support. There is no support for large increases in athletic based spending.

I have a neighbor who is a big shot in higher education and has a Bobcat background. He has connections to all the major players. We talked over the weekend about Akron's dire situation and their stadium debacle, as well as other public black eyes for state schools. He can't see any major projects happening that are publicly funded.

The problem isn't just public institutions, lots of Division II colleges and universities are reevaluating their sports programs. Urbana University went under and had to be absorbed into Franklin University, a debt Franklin is still paying. Ohio Dominican is not where they thought they would be when they did their master plan some ten years ago, neither is Ashland and they aren't alone.

A few years ago some big time money boosters at Dayton tried to persuade the powers that be to go Division I football. I was told by someone who should know that the Marianist Religious Order said no because they were told by some of their religious brethren at other institutions that it is a headache not worth having. Some of the boosters that initially pushed for the effort are now said to be grateful they weren't taken up by their offer.

In the last 10 years, coaching salaries have risen exponentially in the non-Power 5, we have talked about this before, so I won't go into it again. However, I think we may have jumped the shark in non-Power 5 athletic spending. We may have peaked out.

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2017/01/31/kasic...

Last Edited: 2/21/2017 4:57:22 PM by cbus cat fan
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 5:13:00 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
I suppose private funds for a scoreboard etc might be a possibility. However, if anyone thinks there is going to be big time spending for college athletics in Ohio's public colleges and universities, those days are just about gone. Below is a link to Governor Kasich's budget ideas about tuition freezes and free and reduced textbooks for certain situations. The thing about these proposals is there is bi-partisan support. There is no support for large increases in athletic based spending.

I have a neighbor who is a big shot in higher education and has a Bobcat background. He has connections to all the major players. We talked over the weekend about Akron's dire situation and their stadium debacle, as well as other public black eyes for state schools. He can't see any major projects happening that are publicly funded.

The problem isn't just public institutions, lots of Division II colleges and universities are reevaluating their sports programs. Urbana University went under and had to be absorbed into Franklin University, a debt Franklin is still paying. Ohio Dominican is not where they thought they would be when they did their master plan some ten years ago, neither is Ashland and they aren't alone.

A few years ago some big time money boosters at Dayton tried to persuade the powers that be to go Division I football. I was told by someone who should know that the Marianist Religious Order said no because they were told by some of their religious brethren at other institutions that it is a headache not worth having. Some of the boosters that initially pushed for the effort are now said to be grateful they weren't taken up by their offer.

In the last 10 years, coaching salaries have risen exponentially in the non-Power 5, we have talked about this before, so I won't go into it again. However, I think we may have jumped the shark in non-Power 5 athletic spending. We may have peaked out.

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2017/01/31/kasic...


Wasn't really sure what the shark term meant so I looked it up: yep, I think you're right.

The idiom "jumping the shark" is almost always used in a pejorative sense. It is most commonly used in reference to gimmicks for promoting entertainment outlets.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 5:27:57 PM 
Alan, my understanding of the phrase "Jump the Shark" has been related to the Happy Days episodes where the gang left Milwaukee for a vacation and went to California. The culmination of the episodes came when Fonzy jumped a shark cage on water skies (all the while wearing his black leather jacket) if my childhood memory serves me correct. Happy Days never again rose to the TV ratings prominence that it once had.

I used that example due to the exponential growth in coaching salaries and cable TV coverage of NCAA Non-Power 5 sports conferences. I just don't see us eclipsing where we have been, and I certainly don't see government officials in this state (and most others as well) receptive to increases in spending for athletic expenditures.

Last Edited: 2/21/2017 5:31:02 PM by cbus cat fan
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 5:30:09 PM 
Ohio has a liberal mission that has restrained spending. Some universities in the G5 or High Mid Major category are building athletic facilities with bonds and directing donors to contribute to coaching salaries. The only legitimate excuse for making improvements is everyone in the MAC is doing it. We've been able to push up the salaries and spending over the last decade to the point where its in another zip code compared to the FCS schools. Those catholic schools do not have the same mission. I watched Showtime boxing live from the Cintas Center on Xavier's campus last night. It's so far from anything OU would consider. Best case for us would be if the MAC became more competitive like the MVC to where it could produce at-large bids and higher tournament seeding. Groce to Miami helps us more than hurts us.

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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 5:52:08 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:

I used that example due to the exponential growth in coaching salaries and cable TV coverage of NCAA Non-Power 5 sports conferences. I just don't see us eclipsing where we have been, and I certainly don't see government officials in this state (and most others as well) receptive to increases in spending for athletic expenditures.


This year we've eclipsed where we've been with the games on CBS Sports for the first time. They'll bump up our coverage windows with a really good team. Won't pay enough to keep the coaches around unfortunately. SMU flat out buys itself wins. That limits the upside to 24-25 wins per year at Ohio by a coach and 9-10 wins per in football with a few big years thrown in there.

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 7:47:35 PM 
Looking at empty seats at the Miami game, I'm thinking our kvetching over student involvement is a first world problem.
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 7:55:50 PM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
Looking at empty seats at the Miami game, I'm thinking our kvetching over student involvement is a first world problem.


No one in the MAC can touch us...it's not even a contest for crowd size or relative atmosphere.

The one thing that everyone is overlooking here? The Convo is just too big. Always has been. Always will be. We've never come remotely close to filling it on a consistent basis. We all have memories of a few select "big" games - but the vast majority of games it's been 50% empty at best with a so-so atmosphere.

In a perfect world, we get a 7,000ish seat arena (like the one Grand Canyon has) and can fill it on a consistent basis. That to me would do more to change the atmosphere than any scoreboard or LED lights.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 7:57:09 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
No one in the MAC can touch us...it's not even a contest for crowd size or relative atmosphere.


Did you see the Kent game at Akron last Friday night?
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 8:03:38 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
No one in the MAC can touch us...it's not even a contest for crowd size or relative atmosphere.


Did you see the Kent game at Akron last Friday night?


I did...that game is always a good atmosphere. Two things:

1. That's their Super Bowl. Kent is 20 minutes down the road. They'll get maybe 3,000 for NIU on a Tuesday.

2. Their arena sits 5,500 generously. We almost have that many season ticket holders.

Sorry Zippy, not impressed.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 8:43:34 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
No one in the MAC can touch us...it's not even a contest for crowd size or relative atmosphere.


Did you see the Kent game at Akron last Friday night?


I did...that game is always a good atmosphere. Two things:

1. That's their Super Bowl. Kent is 20 minutes down the road. They'll get maybe 3,000 for NIU on a Tuesday.

2. Their arena sits 5,500 generously. We almost have that many season ticket holders.

Sorry Zippy, not impressed.


That's funny. If we had almost 5500 season ticket holders how did we only have 4271 for the Milwaukee game?
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 9:08:50 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:


That's funny. If we had almost 5500 season ticket holders how did we only have 4271 for the Milwaukee game?


It's like 4,000. At least according to this from the start of the season: http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/11171...

Still though, if we had a 5,500 seat arena - you'd be over 70% sold out before a single student, band member or fan comes in.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 9:10:20 PM 
Quality, not quantity, of the AK Rowdies v. OZone?
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 9:10:30 PM 
With regard to attendance, yes no one can touch us and it has been that way as long as I remember. Sadly, it only proves our point that not only has Ohio basketball jumped the shark so has most of the MAC. Think about it, Akron's arena is half the size of ours, it isn't always sold out and Akron has about 2,000,000 people within 50 miles of it, while Athens has about 500,000. If someone took a poll on game day on campus in Oxford and Ypsilanti and pointed to the arena and asked any idea what's going to happen there tonight? I doubt most would have the faintest idea.

We can't get more exposure if we don't get bids and the big boys have cornered the at large bids, even conferences like the Atlantic 10 get 3,4, or 5 bids. We have TV coverage that I could only have dreamed about when I was an undergrad. I am sure the assistant coaches back in the day wince whey they see the huge increase in salaries that assistant coaches are getting paid today. Yet, students attendance isn't what it once was and it isn't only a MAC problem. When was the last time there was a string of sold out games for Ohio State basketball? When was the last time anyone feared their student body? Yet, they have been to the Elite 8 three times in the last 10 years and the Final Four twice.

We live in different times with many options for students. It is simply a reality we have to face, we have thrown all kinds of money--coaching salaries, promotions etc at the the problem. The truth of the matter the MAC had better chances of getting a 2nd bid 20 or 30 years ago (and we actually did) than we do now. College basketball attendance and ratings aren't what they were 20 or 30 years ago either. We shouldn't give up trying and we should always expect to be the ones in the MAC with a bulls eye on our back. However, we have to face reality.

Last Edited: 2/21/2017 9:13:15 PM by cbus cat fan
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 9:16:50 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Think about it, Akron's arena is half the size of ours, it isn't always sold out and Akron has about 2,000,000 people within 50 miles of it, while Athens has about 500,000. If someone took a poll on game day on campus in Oxford and Ypsilanti and pointed to the arena and asked any idea what's going to happen there tonight? I doubt most would have the faintest idea.


Me thinks you are overestimating Athens, unless we are counting some cows in Morgan County.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 9:39:23 PM 
Actually 50 miles from Athens you get into Fairfield County--Lancaster, Pickerington etc. You also deal with Parkersburg etc. Don't forget to throw in Chillicothe. 500,000 may be a stretch, but closer than you think. Throw in 70 miles from Akron and I may have underdone the 2,000,000 figure.

Last Edited: 2/21/2017 9:41:15 PM by cbus cat fan
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 11:11:19 PM 
Speaking of enticing students to games. Did anyone just catch the end of the exciting Akron vs Bowling Green game? You have the league leading team come to your gym. The game goes down to the final shot and if there were 1,000 people in the Stroh Center when the game ended, that would be a generous figure. Sad but true.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/21/2017 11:15:19 PM 
Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-hDl6OALv4
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/23/2017 4:08:06 PM 
The Convo is too big. If we lopped off half of the top bowl and got to 8-9K, that would be good.
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David E Brightbill
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  Message Not Read  RE: IDEAS to ENTICE more STUDENT INVOLVEMENT ?
   Posted: 2/23/2017 4:14:29 PM 
giacomo wrote:
The Convo is too big. If we lopped off half of the top bowl and got to 8-9K, that would be good.


I have to ask good for what. The several thousand parents and friends that couldn't get in for graduation. This is an academic institution that has a couple of basketball teams and other sports that use the convo. It's not a basketball program that just happens to offer a few classes.
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