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Where did anyone say that? The dude's been here 2.5 seasons. Give it a rest. #AlternateFacts, RJ. That's where it was said. allen, Depending on how it affects you, have a little less, or a little more of that hooch. Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 11:56:46 AM  My opinion based on facts is that if Groce becomes available, we should hire him, otherwise we can keep Saul. I would take Groce over Saul any day, he has been much more successful. I like Saul, I hate to see so many meltdowns, it can be demoralizing to a team. Our football team was 4-15 against MAC teams with winning records, I believe we made a turn with the road victory against Toledo, it took four years to get over the hump. If this team keeps melting down in the second half, how will they believe they can win close games. The coach needs to draw up winning plays, call TO's to stop runs and regroup and let the players know what their roles are. I think we have players that can be good, but are not being developed. Taylor should be getting two blocks a game. Dartis needs to be able to put the ball on the floor after faking a three and hitting a midrange jumper or hitting an open man as a player rotates out of his zone to guard him. Block needs grow as well. KK should not be allowed to hug the three point line. These are my gripes. I am not starting a fire Saul campaign, but at the same time if a great opportunity presents itself, you take it. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,478 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 12:00:16 PM  allen wrote: My opinion based on facts is that if Groce becomes available, we should hire him, otherwise we can keep Saul. I would take Groce over Saul any day, he has been much more successful. I like Saul, I hate to see so many meltdowns, it can be demoralizing to a team. Our football team was 4-15 against MAC teams with winning records, I believe we made a turn with the road victory against Toledo, it took four years to get over the hump. If this team keeps melting down in the second half, how will they believe they can win close games. The coach needs to draw up winning plays, call TO's to stop runs and regroup and let the players know what their roles are. I think we have players that can be good, but are not being developed. Taylor should be getting two blocks a game. Dartis needs to be able to put the ball on the floor after faking a three and hitting a midrange jumper or hitting an open man as a player rotates out of his zone to guard him. Block needs grow as well. KK should not be allowed to hug the three point line. These are my gripes. I am not starting a fire Saul campaign, but at the same time if a great opportunity presents itself, you take it. So in 2.5 years and no MAC title you think it's fine to fire a basketball coach, yet you complain and fight with Monroe when he says 12 years without a title is too long on the football board? interesting. And for the record, I'm a fan of both staffs! Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 12:11:28 PM  Just like the Cavs fired Blatt to hire a better coach, Ohio should do the same thing. Blatt is a great coach, he won titles in Israel, he was pretty good in the NBA, but he could not create style where his players could thrive and win a championship, Lue was able to get the Cavs to run more and we won the title. My philosophy is not predicated on years, it is predicated on success and direction. FS was good this year, he was bold, he replaced the QB, he called out coaches, something he needed to do a while ago. I think he had a great year. Saul in my opinion is just keeping the ship afloat. It is all about seizing an opportunity if one presents itself. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 6,914 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 12:20:47 PM  allen wrote: Just like the Cavs fired Blatt to hire a better coach, Ohio should do the same thing. Blatt is a great coach, he won titles in Israel, he was pretty good in the NBA, but he could not create style where his players could thrive and win a championship, Lue was able to get the Cavs to run more and we won the title. My philosophy is not predicated on years, it is predicated on success and direction. FS was good this year, he was bold, he replaced the QB, he called out coaches, something he needed to do a while ago. I think he had a great year. Saul in my opinion is just keeping the ship afloat. It is all about seizing an opportunity if one presents itself. Why are you so certain that Groce being here would automatically equal MAC titles again? For all intents and purposes, DJ Cooper, Reggie Keeley, Walt Offut and those guys had just as much to do with Groce's success as Groce had with his own. It's not guaranteed he would catch that lightning in a bottle again. Adding to that, DJ was a once in a lifetime player at Ohio and we were extremely lucky for him to come here. It's gonna be tough for anyone, Groce or SP, to get a guy like that again. Last Edited: 2/2/2017 12:22:18 PM by GoCats105 Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 12:31:40 PM  allen wrote: Just like the Cavs fired Blatt to hire a better coach, Ohio should do the same thing. Blatt is a great coach, he won titles in Israel, he was pretty good in the NBA, but he could not create style where his players could thrive and win a championship, Lue was able to get the Cavs to run more and we won the title. My philosophy is not predicated on years, it is predicated on success and direction. FS was good this year, he was bold, he replaced the QB, he called out coaches, something he needed to do a while ago. I think he had a great year. Saul in my opinion is just keeping the ship afloat. It is all about seizing an opportunity if one presents itself. Call me when Dan Gilbert shows up to finance your moves. SP has 2.5 years left on his contract, so your little fantasy coming true would cost well over $1.2 million just to fire one guy with no cause. Add in the turmoil of a staff change and the justifiable hit to our program's reputation and you're really looking at something that's more expensive than the dollars the school doesn't even have. Just stop. Please. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 1:17:27 PM  New drinking game: everyone do a shot for every time we see the argument about how great, and feasible, this idea is. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 1:44:54 PM  allen wrote: Just like the Cavs fired Blatt to hire a better coach, Ohio should do the same thing. "We are totally committed to you...until something prettier comes along." Good luck ever getting another coach to come here after Groce is gone for a second time. If you really want to damage your brand that is how you operate a college program. Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 2:07:48 PM  A coach will know that they are coming here to win, programs FIRE coaches all the time for underperforming. I am not proposing anything new. Usually if the school is smart they put a clause in the contract stating that if they take a new position after being fired the school only pays the difference. Saul would get a major assistant position or get a lateral head coaching position. Let's ride it out and see what happens. Don't think that anybody can just show up at our great school. http://d1coachcorner.com/D1coachratings.htm Last Edited: 2/2/2017 2:19:46 PM by allen Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,624 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 3:30:41 PM  Allen, to stay with your line of thinking, if Gina Lollobrigida or Sophia Loren,circa 1955, became available my wife can find an assistants job on somebody else's bench. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 3:42:48 PM  allen wrote: No mediocre AD, coaches get fired all the time for underperforming, even if they run a clean program. Does Saul have a lifetime pass? What BA needs is a FakeAllen to satirize this "fire Saul" campaign. I suspect it'll be just as successful as Monroe's fire frank campaign. While Frank does have a lifetime pass, I believe Saul's pass is only good for ten years, or when his daughter graduates from Athens High School, or whichever occurs first! ;-) The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 3:44:09 PM  allen wrote: A coach will know that they are coming here to win, programs FIRE coaches all the time for underperforming. I am not proposing anything new. Usually if the school is smart they put a clause in the contract stating that if they take a new position after being fired the school only pays the difference. Saul would get a major assistant position or get a lateral head coaching position. Let's ride it out and see what happens. Don't think that anybody can just show up at our great school. http://d1coachcorner.com/D1coachratings.htm The problem is there isn't a coach in America that thinks that Saul is underperforming. Not one. And what coach is going to come here if we fire Saul because he hasn't gotten an NCAA win in 2 years. Or maybe you're thinking that we should fire him because he allowed Tony Campbell to break his foot. I'm going to go on record and say that not only don't I think Saul should be fired but I think he's doing a very good job. We aren't there yet but I think Saul is building a tremendous program. If we were to fire him (assuming Polaroids involving small farm animals aren't involved) I would be done with Ohio basketball. This whole conversation is absurd. Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 4:10:03 PM  OUVan wrote: The problem is there isn't a coach in America that thinks that Saul is underperforming. Not one. And what coach is going to come here if we fire Saul because he hasn't gotten an NCAA win in 2 years. Or maybe you're thinking that we should fire him because he allowed Tony Campbell to break his foot. I'm going to go on record and say that not only don't I think Saul should be fired but I think he's doing a very good job. We aren't there yet but I think Saul is building a tremendous program. If we were to fire him (assuming Polaroids involving small farm animals aren't involved) I would be done with Ohio basketball. This whole conversation is absurd. Agreed 100%. In fact, this conversation is so absurd that I wonder if Allen is not just trolling all of us. So far he has ignored all logical evidence placed before him, so that's not an unrealistic possibility. Back to Top GroverBall General User Member Since: 12/3/2012 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 1,241 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 4:40:32 PM  Recovering Journalist wrote: OUVan wrote: The problem is there isn't a coach in America that thinks that Saul is underperforming. Not one. And what coach is going to come here if we fire Saul because he hasn't gotten an NCAA win in 2 years. Or maybe you're thinking that we should fire him because he allowed Tony Campbell to break his foot. I'm going to go on record and say that not only don't I think Saul should be fired but I think he's doing a very good job. We aren't there yet but I think Saul is building a tremendous program. If we were to fire him (assuming Polaroids involving small farm animals aren't involved) I would be done with Ohio basketball. This whole conversation is absurd. Agreed 100%. In fact, this conversation is so absurd that I wonder if Allen is not just trolling all of us. So far he has ignored all logical evidence placed before him, so that's not an unrealistic possibility. Yea, I've been surprised so many have felt the need to respond to the nonsense. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 2,992 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 4:55:24 PM  I think allen is dead serious. I find it kind of funny. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top OhioStunter General User Member Since: 2/18/2005 Location: Chicago Post Count: 2,516 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 6:13:30 PM  GoCats105 wrote: Why are you so certain that Groce being here would automatically equal MAC titles again? For all intents and purposes, DJ Cooper, Reggie Keeley, Walt Offut and those guys had just as much to do with Groce's success as Groce had with his own. It's not guaranteed he would catch that lightning in a bottle again. Adding to that, DJ was a once in a lifetime player at Ohio and we were extremely lucky for him to come here. It's gonna be tough for anyone, Groce or SP, to get a guy like that again. Thinking more about recruiting, Hahn recruited two NBA players in Snoopy and Jamerson. Replaced by Hunter, Larry did a very nice job of bringing in great players, including two more NBA talents in Trent and Hunter, as well as Ohio HS basketball's all-time leading scorer (even more than LeBron), Geno Ford. O'Shea recruited Jerome Tillman and Leon Williams -- two of the few Bobcats in school history ranking in the Top 10 in both scoring and rebounding. Groce brought in DJ and Kellogg, as well as Offutt and Keely. Christian actually brought in Mo and Antonio Campbell -- two NBA-caliber players. It remains to be seen who Saul can bring in (or has already brought in that has yet to reach great Ohio plateaus), but each of the previous five head coaches all have some really great players -- dare I say "legends" -- they can say they brought to Ohio. Last Edited: 2/2/2017 6:37:00 PM by OhioStunter Back to Top perimeterpost General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 3,165 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 9:49:40 PM  MAC record, half way through his 3rd season- Groce: 17-23(.425) Saul: 21-24(.467) MY STATE. MY TEAM. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,023 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 9:54:17 PM  perimeterpost wrote: MAC record, half way through his 3rd season- Groce: 17-23(.425) Saul: 21-24(.467) And as we all know the MAC regular season record means nothing. It's all about Cleveland and beyond in this one horse league. Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 10:40:14 PM  Who is the better coach? Groce is rated 75, Saul is 129. You guys live in a mediocre fantasy world, lets ride this thing out and see where it goes. Saul has brought in some decent players, but they have not progressed. I hope we win the MAC this year. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,478 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/2/2017 10:55:39 PM  Congrats to Allen on creating 30 worthless post today! Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/3/2017 12:05:18 AM  BillyTheCat wrote: Congrats to Allen on creating 30 worthless post today! May God bless you. I know change is difficult. You cozy up to a staff, wash their cars and poop a scoop their backyards. The prospects of getting a new staff, that may not want you to do those things, a staff that you may see your insecurities. I get it you are ultimately comfortable with the status quo. Listen, I understand. I just want to get a coach that can get us into the tournament and give our players some great memories and us as fans as well some great memories. Groce got us there 2 out of 4 years and got us three victories, shame on me for wanting to rehire him. Why should I aim for the tournament? I am here to tell you that some people want that success again. While you and mediocre others try to bully me, which is to no avail. It's like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory trying to bully the rock, it is comedic, you comediocres are something else. Now I want to give you a chance to create 30 worthless posts, go ahead and list all the times that you were cut from different sports teams. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top cc-cat General User Member Since: 4/5/2006 Location: matthews, NC Post Count: 3,821 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/3/2017 1:21:57 AM  BillyTheCat wrote: Congrats to Allen on creating 30 worthless post today! Has anyone actually seen Monroe and Allen in the same room at the same time? Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,630 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/3/2017 5:03:08 AM  clearly McCarthyism will not work. The only think that will work is better coaching and better play. The mediocre lobby is very tough,but thank God there are fans who want to win.Trying to stone me for wanting a coach that took us to the sweet sixteen is crazy. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top Buckeye to Bobcat General User Member Since: 9/10/2013 Post Count: 1,776 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/3/2017 8:50:50 AM  I will say this, it takes 5-6 years to find your groove at a school. Usually your first recruiting classes are cobbled together by shoestrings and a prayer. But the next couple years is when we can pass judgement onto Saul, especially once we find out his caliber of player. That said, Saul has done some great work in-state, as I have said before when we have kids from all over the state and from some very good programs in Ohio. Unlike Solich, Saul's staff realizes this importance and time can be given to him. Adjusting for your starting center going down in your third year, is never an easy thing to adjust to for a coach. That said, next year is going to tell me a lot about where this is going in terms of our program. Saul has done a pretty good job of getting under the radar players, it's not everyday you end up with the D-2 player of the year in Ohio (Carter) along with a 1st team D1 all-state in Ohio (Dartis). So give him a bit more time to get in his element and we'll see what happens. Back to Top mf279801 General User Member Since: 8/6/2010 Location: Newark, DE Post Count: 2,452 Status: Offline     RE: John Groce    Posted: 2/3/2017 9:38:47 AM  cc-cat wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: Congrats to Allen on creating 30 worthless post today! Has anyone actually seen Monroe and Allen in the same room at the same time? Glad I'm not the only one who has had that thought Back to Top Showing Replies:   51 - 75  of 175 Posts Jump to Page:   < Previous    1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7    Next > View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 257 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 256 Guests 1 Registered User:   Doc Bobcat There are no other users looking at this page.

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