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Very powerful talk to his players about the National Anthem. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/10/2016 5:37:45 PM  saw that a week ago. Not much of a Buzz fan but his approach to using teaching moments and the game of basketball is impressive. Groce has a similar mindset which I enjoyed while he was here. I remember a prepractice talk about priorities and wasted effort and time involving a story about life and priorities...after the lengthy parable the end of the Tibetian story was how "youth spends their time and health chasing money while maturing adults spend their time and money chasing health". Deep stuff for college age kids but it was interesting to see him daily trying to help them find themselves and affect their lives . never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/11/2016 8:57:50 PM  This "protest" has nothing to do with those in the military who were drafted to protect our country. The issue is the second class citizenship of blacks and for that matter native Americans who had their land stolen. The last two lines of the first verse of the song cite the land of the free and the home of the brave. Those who are brave enough to call attention to the injustices in our country today at the risk of personal assault and financial loss are guaranteed by our constitution to let their voices be heard. Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,401 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/11/2016 9:54:56 PM  How many international students play NCAA in the USA? How many USA citizens play pro ball overseas? Should we begin to include the Pledge of Allegiance in pre-game ceremonies? Use some of all the extra security at games to eyeball the crowd then escort non-participants off the premises (that part of the crew though should wear "brown shirts"). I can think of at one least regular poster on here who always says "it's only a game"..... RS Bobcat Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/11/2016 10:34:38 PM  Alan Swank wrote: This "protest" has nothing to do with those in the military who were drafted to protect our country. The issue is the second class citizenship of blacks and for that matter native Americans who had their land stolen. The last two lines of the first verse of the song cite the land of the free and the home of the brave. Those who are brave enough to call attention to the injustices in our country today at the risk of personal assault and financial loss are guaranteed by our constitution to let their voices be heard. It's interesting how many people say they revere MLK, Gandhi and other nonviolent protestors - always retrospectively. Whenever they see a present-day nonviolent protest, they hate it and say it's evil and wrong. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/11/2016 10:38:21 PM  Alan Swank wrote: This "protest" has nothing to do with those in the military who were drafted to protect our country. The issue is the second class citizenship of blacks and for that matter native Americans who had their land stolen. The last two lines of the first verse of the song cite the land of the free and the home of the brave. Those who are brave enough to call attention to the injustices in our country today at the risk of personal assault and financial loss are guaranteed by our constitution to let their voices be heard. WHy are you muddying up the board with your take on this? Giacomo put up a story with a video related to basketball that was done in the fall of 2015 prior to the season. THere was nothing in giacomo's statement or mine about a protest. There is nothing in the article about a protest. There is nothing in the video about a protest. It was a news story about how he communicates to his young men how and why they do what they do at Va Tech. I am sure in 2015 he had no crystal ball that gave him insight into what is happening in the fall of 2016 the headline from the ABC news article is the following Virginia Tech Men's Basketball Coach Teaches Team a Lesson With Help of Veterans By ALLIE KESSEL Mar 9, 2016, 3:48 PM ET NOTE the date. COach Williams tweeted on his twitter account IN MARCH about his video from pre season in 2015 Buzz Williams ✔ @TeamCoachBuzz Not sure how National Anthem video resurfaced 4mos later, but humble thanks to all, specifically our Veterans, for all the kind messages!💚🇺🇸 10:04 PM - 8 Mar 2016 142 142 Retweets 501 I am not sure what prompted your comment or why you felt compelled to muddy up the board with non basketball related commentary that was pretty far afeild from the subject and to imply that Coach was reacting to our present day situation a year ago. never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 7:58:45 AM  bornacatfan wrote: WHy are you muddying up the board with your take on this? Giacomo put up a story with a video related to basketball that was done in the fall of 2015 prior to the season. THere was nothing in giacomo's statement or mine about a protest. There is nothing in the article about a protest. It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that this thread started in a vacuum. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 9:25:44 AM  Recovering Journalist wrote: bornacatfan wrote: WHy are you muddying up the board with your take on this? Giacomo put up a story with a video related to basketball that was done in the fall of 2015 prior to the season. THere was nothing in giacomo's statement or mine about a protest. There is nothing in the article about a protest. It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that this thread started in a vacuum. Exactly because timing is everything. Post that when it happened and it means one thing. Post it today and it's a totally different story. And the original poster did post this in addition to the link: Very powerful talk to his players about the National Anthem. Last Edited: 9/12/2016 9:26:35 AM by Alan Swank Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 9:53:30 AM  If you're referring to me as saying "it's only a game", guilty as charged. I saw the video on facebook and liked the message to the players regarding the veterans. Young people often don't think about who came before them and why things are the way they are. I'm not against Kaepernick and those that choose to protest. That is their right. The funny thing about free speech is sometimes you don't agree with the speaker. And it is only a game...:) Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,035 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 11:53:02 AM  Giacomo started this thread in September of 2016, so I think we can assume his intent. Having said that, I might be equally interested (if not more interested) if a coach invited a Jim Brown or Muhammed Ali to talk to his players on this subject. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 12:01:06 PM  How about thinking about the U.S flag in the context of raising it over the capitol of the former Confederacy in Richmond in 1865? Or, how about the brave actions of Sgt. Carney of the 54th Massachusetts at assault on Ft. Wagner? What did it stand for in terms of the African American community at that point? Do you think the current protesters are even aware of this perspective? Just some questions for consideration. I'm as big a supporter as you will find of the First Amendment rights of all Americans, and I also believe in exercising my own free speech and freedom of religion rights. Link to a brief description of Sgt. Carney's actions at Ft. Wagner and the song that was written to honor him. The Song was called "Boys The Old Flag Never Touched the Ground." [Note: the term "boys" was routinely used to refer to soldiers in the civil war -- both white and black. It had no racial overtones in this usage.] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_the_Old_Flag_Never_Tou... Last Edited: 9/12/2016 12:01:48 PM by OhioCatFan The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 3,280 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 1:33:53 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: How about thinking about the U.S flag in the context of raising it over the capitol of the former Confederacy in Richmond in 1865? Or, how about the brave actions of Sgt. Carney of the 54th Massachusetts at assault on Ft. Wagner? What did it stand for in terms of the African American community at that point? Do you think the current protesters are even aware of this perspective? Just some questions for consideration. I'm as big a supporter as you will find of the First Amendment rights of all Americans, and I also believe in exercising my own free speech and freedom of religion rights. Link to a brief description of Sgt. Carney's actions at Ft. Wagner and the song that was written to honor him. The Song was called "Boys The Old Flag Never Touched the Ground." [Note: the term "boys" was routinely used to refer to soldiers in the civil war -- both white and black. It had no racial overtones in this usage.] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_the_Old_Flag_Never_Tou... Is it reasonable to ask blacks in this country to base their association with the US Flag on an event from 1865? The history of how blacks have been treated in this country is terrible. It's atrocious pre-1865, and it's terrible post 1865. There's really no argument to make otherwise. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 1:49:24 PM  I'm not arguing that the failure of Reconstruction, the era of Jim Crow, etc., should be overlooked. I'm simply saying that there are things for African Americans to be proud of in terms of the symbolism of the U.S. flag. And, these Civil War Era examples are just illustrative. There are many others between the 1860s and now, which could be cited. The question in my mind is whether or not protesting the national anthem and/or the flag is the best way to bring attention to continuing disparities. I think the flag should be symbol that unifies us rather than one that divides us. Again, one has the right to protest in any way they see fit, short of breaking some law, but I'm free to question the effectiveness and the intelligence of a particular mode of protest. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 2:01:42 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: I'm not arguing that the failure of Reconstruction, the era of Jim Crow, etc., should be overlooked. I'm simply saying that there are things for African Americans to be proud of in terms of the symbolism of the U.S. flag. And, these Civil War Era examples are just illustrative. There are many others between the 1860s and now, which could be cited. The question in my mind is whether or not protesting the national anthem and/or the flag is the best way to bring attention to continuing disparities. I think the flag should be symbol that unifies us rather than one that divides us. Again, one has the right to protest in any way they see fit, short of breaking some law, but I'm free to question the effectiveness and the intelligence of a particular mode of protest. But the protest is working, and it's peaceful. Yes, it's making plenty of people like you angry, but it's also stimulating discussions like the one we're having. That's a tiny step forward toward resolving the problem. Of course, many of the people upset over the protest don't think there is any problem. This was just published today, and I think it adds an interesting perspective: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/magazine/who-gets-to-be... Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 2:16:20 PM  Recovering Journalist wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: I'm not arguing that the failure of Reconstruction, the era of Jim Crow, etc., should be overlooked. I'm simply saying that there are things for African Americans to be proud of in terms of the symbolism of the U.S. flag. And, these Civil War Era examples are just illustrative. There are many others between the 1860s and now, which could be cited. The question in my mind is whether or not protesting the national anthem and/or the flag is the best way to bring attention to continuing disparities. I think the flag should be symbol that unifies us rather than one that divides us. Again, one has the right to protest in any way they see fit, short of breaking some law, but I'm free to question the effectiveness and the intelligence of a particular mode of protest. But the protest is working, and it's peaceful. Yes, it's making plenty of people like you angry, but it's also stimulating discussions like the one we're having. That's a tiny step forward toward resolving the problem. Of course, many of the people upset over the protest don't think there is any problem. This was just published today, and I think it adds an interesting perspective: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/magazine/who-gets-to-be... What makes you think I'm angry over these protests? I'm just trying to analyze them and give my opinion. As long as the protest is peaceful, I'm not going to get angry about it. I'm old enough to remember the black power protests at the Olympics and elsewhere. I'm not sure that they actually, in the long run, really accomplished very much. They were kind of "flashes in the pan." The protests, in my lifetime, that had the greatest effect in helping bring progress in race relations and related issues would be those of MLK and others like my friend, Bill Anderson, D.O. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Anderson ). There was an intellectual integrity in these protests and how they were conducted. I really don't see that in the current protests -- be it this flag issue or the BLM movement. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 4:06:29 PM  Comfortable people always say that those who are protesting are doing it wrong. It's worth pointing out that those "flash in a pan" Mexico City protesters were reviled by almost every white person in America and lost just about everything at the time. Today, there are statues of them. Similarly, Dr. King was detested by a majority of Americans when he was doing his most important and effective work (source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/08/26/when_martin_... ). Today, he is one of the most admired Americans in history. Same can be said for Muhammad Ali. Kaepernick is certainly not in the same realm as MLK or Ali, but the response to him (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/31/colin_k... ) is the same as it was to those guys at the time of their respective protests. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 5:33:13 PM  Everybody has a right to protest. I am a product of immigrants. This is how my dad and mom protested. His union went on strike and no money was coming in for a while. He took a job on the weekends as a security guard and when his friend needed a hand as the caretaker of a small cemetery he dug graves by hand. My mother worked as a part time secretary and took on extra days at the office when she could. I cut lawns in the neighborhood and also for several relatives. My sister did babysitting. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 6:08:15 PM  R.J., for the record I didn't like Muhammad Ali when he was Cassius Clay. I thought he was an extremely egotistical SOB. I remember the fight when he beat Floyd Patterson. He stood over Patterson and yelled, "I am the greatest" over and over again. Patterson was a real gentleman. Clay was a boorish, self-absorbed idiot. IMHO, he didn't improve much as Muhammad Ali. I never thought that his various "causes" later in life met my criteria of intellectually honesty. So, while your statement about what people think at the time of a protest and how it differs from what they think years later may be true in a statistical sense, but it's not necessarily true in any specific case. I know that I'm in minority in my opinion of Ali, but I never thought much of him as a person. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 7:08:56 PM  I might add that I had an interesting discussion recently with my youngest daughter's father-in-law, Ron, who is African American and lives in Louisville, about Ali. While we totally disagreed on Ali, we each understood where the other person was coming from. Proving that it's possible to discuss these issues in a civil manner between people with vastly different backgrounds. Ron and I agree on almost all of the other race-related issues that we've discussed, including the veracity of BLM. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,401 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 9:07:28 PM  Recovering Journalist wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: I'm not arguing that the failure of Reconstruction, the era of Jim Crow, etc., should be overlooked. I'm simply saying that there are things for African Americans to be proud of in terms of the symbolism of the U.S. flag. And, these Civil War Era examples are just illustrative. There are many others between the 1860s and now, which could be cited. The question in my mind is whether or not protesting the national anthem and/or the flag is the best way to bring attention to continuing disparities. I think the flag should be symbol that unifies us rather than one that divides us. Again, one has the right to protest in any way they see fit, short of breaking some law, but I'm free to question the effectiveness and the intelligence of a particular mode of protest. But the protest is working, and it's peaceful. Yes, it's making plenty of people like you angry, but it's also stimulating discussions like the one we're having. That's a tiny step forward toward resolving the problem. Of course, many of the people upset over the protest don't think there is any problem. This was just published today, and I think it adds an interesting perspective: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/magazine/who-gets-to-be... Thanks for the link - That is some very well thought and very well written commentary there RS Bobcat Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 9:14:09 PM  And on a related note, the NCAA weighs in with it's own protest action: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/17533335/nc... Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,401 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 9:16:37 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: I remember the fight when he beat Floyd Patterson. He stood over Patterson and yelled, "I am the greatest" over and over again. Patterson was a real gentleman. And here is what the "gentleman" Patterson had said: "......who had told Sports Illustrated: “The image of a Black Muslim as the world heavyweight champion disgraces the sport and nation.” RS Bobcat Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Virginia Tech coach speaks to players    Posted: 9/12/2016 9:34:05 PM  Here is a little more of what Patterson said about Ali in an Esquire story: "Joining the Muslims was one reason for Clay's decline in popularity, and his views on Vietnam and the draft are others, and I happen to disagree with everything he is saying on these three subjects, and I think the Cassius Clay viewpoint is working against the civil-rights movement and the best interests of the nation. I certainly would fight willingly in Vietnam for my country, and have no soft feelings toward the Black Muslims. But what bothers me about Cassius Clay's situation is that he is being made to pay too stiff a penalty for saying and doing what he thinks is right. I happen not to agree with him, but he certainly has a right to express his opinion on Vietnam and the draft and the Muslims without having half the nation jumping on his back. Why? Because Clay was exercising his right of free speech. He did not, as far as I know, break any law. I read in the newspapers recently that he was charged with defying a police officer who stopped a car in which he was riding, and for passing a stop sign, but he has not been found guilty of any major crime, and so I think he should be getting a bigger break than he has gotten this year. . . " The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 23  of 23 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 117 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 116 Guests 1 Registered User:   LuckySparrow There are no other users looking at this page.

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