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General User Member Since: 2/3/2005 Post Count: 2,949 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/14/2016 2:29:15 PM  I know this proves I'm a moron, but whenever we have a Vedder thread, I like to imagine we're talking about Eddie. Son, she said, have I got a little story for you What you thought was your athletic budget was nothin' but a tool While you were sittin' at the Convo still drunk from Halloween Your college funds were dyin', sorry our head coach was Tim, but I'm glad we talked... Oh I, oh, think the fees are too high Hey, I, I, oh, I think the fees are too high Hey I, oh, I think the fees are too high Hey...oh... Last Edited: 6/14/2016 2:46:57 PM by . Back to Top cbus cat fan General User Member Since: 12/2/2011 Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/15/2016 11:37:00 PM  While I am in alignment with many of Dr. Vedder's economic views, I do believe he is missing the boat on some aspects of student fees and college athletics. The big time programs are out of control with money, though a shadow of the power and debauchery that once marked their daily existence. Mid majors like Ohio need the fees and the small limelight of the small Mid- Major spotlight to open their educational product to a larger national view. Think about the increase in applications Mid Majors like Valpo, Butler and even tiny Mt. St. Mary's saw in the last 5-10 years when they made tournament runs. We may think everyone knows about Ohio and her stronger programs, but not everyone does. The elephant in the room is the structure of college and universities. The number of higher education institutions on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little sobering. Skyrocketing tuition and debt caused by student's majoring in ridiculous non job prospect majors is a racket that keeps on suckering students and their parents. Student fees and athletic spending are small potatoes compared to the sheer chicanery that is the structure of higher education. Some think college should be for the chosen few a la Europe, while others think everyone should go and free at that. I suspect in 20 years the dust will start to settle from all of this--and maybe back to a 1980s tuition rate and room and board fees! It seemed to make more economic sense compared to what we are dealing with now. Last Edited: 6/15/2016 11:38:10 PM by cbus cat fan Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 7:23:43 AM  cbus cat fan wrote: The elephant in the room is the structure of college and universities. The number of higher education institutions on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little sobering. Skyrocketing tuition and debt caused by student's majoring in ridiculous non job prospect majors is a racket that keeps on suckering students and their parents. Student fees and athletic spending are small potatoes compared to the sheer chicanery that is the structure of higher education. Well said. I agree completely. I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 9:48:25 AM  The Optimist wrote: cbus cat fan wrote: The elephant in the room is the structure of college and universities. The number of higher education institutions on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little sobering. Skyrocketing tuition and debt caused by student's majoring in ridiculous non job prospect majors is a racket that keeps on suckering students and their parents. Student fees and athletic spending are small potatoes compared to the sheer chicanery that is the structure of higher education. Well said. I agree completely. Yes and no. There is also the issue of skyrocketing administrative costs and the proliferation of student service programs to protect every thing under the sun. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,503 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 1:20:30 PM  The Optimist wrote: cbus cat fan wrote: The elephant in the room is the structure of college and universities. The number of higher education institutions on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little sobering. Skyrocketing tuition and debt caused by student's majoring in ridiculous non job prospect majors is a racket that keeps on suckering students and their parents. Student fees and athletic spending are small potatoes compared to the sheer chicanery that is the structure of higher education. Well said. I agree completely. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe that when you declare a major,the college/university you're attending,should be required to tell you what your job prospects are. I know one Ivy used to offer a degree in "Folklore and Mythology".Don't know if they still do.Anyway,unless people have trolls living under their porch that they need to get rid of,there doesn't seem to be much a college could say about your job prospects with that degree. Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 1:44:44 PM  rpbobcat wrote: The Optimist wrote: cbus cat fan wrote: The elephant in the room is the structure of college and universities. The number of higher education institutions on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little sobering. Skyrocketing tuition and debt caused by student's majoring in ridiculous non job prospect majors is a racket that keeps on suckering students and their parents. Student fees and athletic spending are small potatoes compared to the sheer chicanery that is the structure of higher education. Well said. I agree completely. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe that when you declare a major,the college/university you're attending,should be required to tell you what your job prospects are. I know one Ivy used to offer a degree in "Folklore and Mythology".Don't know if they still do.Anyway,unless people have trolls living under their porch that they need to get rid of,there doesn't seem to be much a college could say about your job prospects with that degree. People harp on this all the time, but I think it's BS. The ugly truth is that today's college degree is the high school diploma of 30 years ago. Employers just want to know a) that you have some basic skills and b) that you can follow direction reasonably well. As such, no degree is "useless" and no degree will lead do life as a barista UNLESS the holder of that degree is determined to use it as they imagined they would when they were 17 and didn't know a damn thing about the world. Most liberal arts degrees teach critical thinking, research skills, writing skills, reading comprehension... stuff that most any job requires. One of my clients is a private equity firm. Here are the undergrad degrees of many of the top executives: music, government, French lit, psychology, history. Also anecdotal, but more food for thought here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2015/07/29/liber... Back to Top cbus cat fan General User Member Since: 12/2/2011 Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 7:10:25 PM  For those who think your major is BS and employers will just judge you by your intellect, I would be happy to introduce you to scores of shoe store managers, car rental attendants, book store employees and the like who really don't want to be there but that's all the can find. Their salary can't even cover the student loans, let alone their living expenses, which is why so many end up living at home. Sure there are Psychology majors who work for the Defense Industry and major corporations doing profiling, but many end up in the jobs mentioned above. Even in Education, the field I am pretty familiar with the amount of College of Education graduates working in their field is well below 50%, for those students in Elementary Ed, especially primary grades, it is half that. I wish I could say they were doing well in other fields, but I can't. At least we aren't like Ohio State who makes Education majors get Master's Degrees causing even more debt and higher amounts of student loans. As an Education administrator, I have brought this up to the powers that be in higher education. I was told, they don't tell anyone what they can't major in for their career. Though, they are not being truthful. You just can't show up with a nice GPA and tell a college I am here for Medical School. The fact is higher education needs an overhaul and as one college administrator I met told me, there will be an overhaul the likes of which we haven't seen when the next economic downturn hits and many higher education institutions cease to exist. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 9:41:49 PM  cbus cat fan wrote: For those who think your major is BS and employers will just judge you by your intellect, I would be happy to introduce you to scores of shoe store managers, car rental attendants, book store employees and the like who really don't want to be there but that's all the can find. Their salary can't even cover the student loans, let alone their living expenses, which is why so many end up living at home. Sure there are Psychology majors who work for the Defense Industry and major corporations doing profiling, but many end up in the jobs mentioned above. Even in Education, the field I am pretty familiar with the amount of College of Education graduates working in their field is well below 50%, for those students in Elementary Ed, especially primary grades, it is half that. I wish I could say they were doing well in other fields, but I can't. At least we aren't like Ohio State who makes Education majors get Master's Degrees causing even more debt and higher amounts of student loans. As an Education administrator, I have brought this up to the powers that be in higher education. I was told, they don't tell anyone what they can't major in for their career. Though, they are not being truthful. You just can't show up with a nice GPA and tell a college I am here for Medical School. The fact is higher education needs an overhaul and as one college administrator I met told me, there will be an overhaul the likes of which we haven't seen when the next economic downturn hits and many higher education institutions cease to exist. Where are you "an Education administrator?" Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/16/2016 10:16:35 PM  cbus cat fan wrote: For those who think your major is BS and employers will just judge you by your intellect, I would be happy to introduce you to scores of shoe store managers, car rental attendants, book store employees and the like who really don't want to be there but that's all the can find. Their salary can't even cover the student loans, let alone their living expenses, which is why so many end up living at home. Guess what? You described a ton of college graduates, regardless of their major. You're pointing to an underemployment problem and blaming the wrong causes. If you want to look at a "real" major that's slinging lattes, check out law schools. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-j... / Back to Top cbus cat fan General User Member Since: 12/2/2011 Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 12:46:05 AM  Very true Recovering Journalist, lots of law school grads doing jobs they never imagined because they didn't specialize and no one had a heart to heart to tell them what law specialties were in high demand and which ones were not. Alan, I have been a teacher, coach, principal and central office administrator who has been fortunate enough to travel to different Ohio colleges and universities and some beyond our borders to interview students at recruiting fairs. This also gives me the privilege to meet higher education administrators where we pick each others brains on various developments in our fields. With all this talk about student fees, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to state the problems as I see it, which is to say there are much bigger fish to fry. Reading higher education journals and seeing how many institutions are on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little disconcerting. Urbana had to be taken over and bailed out by Franklin. There are lots of other problems lurking below the surface at Ashland, Wittenburg and Ohio Dominican. Akron's problems have been well documented Again, I have had a unique window on the situation in hearing it from students, parents and administrators both at the high school and college level. The current structure of many colleges and universities cannot be sustained when the next economic downturn hits us. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,503 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 6:45:58 AM  cbus cat fan wrote: Very true Recovering Journalist, lots of law school grads doing jobs they never imagined because they didn't specialize and no one had a heart to heart to tell them what law specialties were in high demand and which ones were not. Alan, I have been a teacher, coach, principal and central office administrator who has been fortunate enough to travel to different Ohio colleges and universities and some beyond our borders to interview students at recruiting fairs. This also gives me the privilege to meet higher education administrators where we pick each others brains on various developments in our fields. With all this talk about student fees, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to state the problems as I see it, which is to say there are much bigger fish to fry. Reading higher education journals and seeing how many institutions are on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little disconcerting. Urbana had to be taken over and bailed out by Franklin. There are lots of other problems lurking below the surface at Ashland, Wittenburg and Ohio Dominican. Akron's problems have been well documented Again, I have had a unique window on the situation in hearing it from students, parents and administrators both at the high school and college level. The current structure of many colleges and universities cannot be sustained when the next economic downturn hits us. I chair FDU's "Industrial Advisory Committee For Civil and Construction Engineering Technology". The group that accredits engineering programs (ABET) requires that universities have these committees. It is made up of people who work in the field and faculty.We are tasked with evaluating engineering technology programs, including how they prepare students to enter the "real world". One of the things we've found is that our engineering and engineering technology students have no problem getting internships or finding jobs in their field after graduation. That's one of the reasons we've seen an increase in enrollment in these programs,including a number of older people going back to school. This despite high tuition (we're a private university) and fees. In fact,based on enrollment,we will be adding additional engineering degree programs. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 7:32:23 AM  I have 2 nephews with Psych degrees. My sis counseled them and fronted money their parents (my other sis) claimed they did not have. Older sis counseled them about degrees, marketability and investing into their future with an education and discussed the viability of the undergrad Psych degree. One finished and went on to an Ohio Masters degree and is now employed by a county drug addiction program as the man who is charged with getting them into exercise and wellness programs. The other has no intention in advancing his Psych degree and is working at Menard's. Both are complaining about their debt and my generation "taking their jobs because they are not retiring when they should" . My older sis is telling them that she tried to tell them to select majors and career tracks that were marketable while their mom is taking to FB lamenting their plight and how unfair the world is to the next gen. This discussion is one that has been taking place in the fam for a decade. My 4 boys have listened to their aunt regarding future and have degrees in Business, Art and Furniture Design, Theatre and hopefully the last one in Engineering. Their 4 male cousins are home schooled kids blaming society for their problems. Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Really relevant thoughts in this thread. never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,503 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 8:13:46 AM  bornacatfan wrote: I have 2 nephews with Psych degrees. My sis counseled them and fronted money their parents (my other sis) claimed they did not have. Older sis counseled them about degrees, marketability and investing into their future with an education and discussed the viability of the undergrad Psych degree. One finished and went on to an Ohio Masters degree and is now employed by a county drug addiction program as the man who is charged with getting them into exercise and wellness programs. The other has no intention in advancing his Psych degree and is working at Menard's. Both are complaining about their debt and my generation "taking their jobs because they are not retiring when they should" . My older sis is telling them that she tried to tell them to select majors and career tracks that were marketable while their mom is taking to FB lamenting their plight and how unfair the world is to the next gen. This discussion is one that has been taking place in the fam for a decade. My 4 boys have listened to their aunt regarding future and have degrees in Business, Art and Furniture Design, Theatre and hopefully the last one in Engineering. Their 4 male cousins are home schooled kids blaming society for their problems. Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Really relevant thoughts in this thread. My niece got virtually no career advice from her parents or college. It was made very clear to my wife and I that we were to "bud out". Thanks to the CSI craze she got a degree in Criminal Justice. She found out that out here CJ is the degree a lot of cops get to meet their department's degree requirements.Its not good for much else. She also found out that any "technical" job in the field requires a science background. She ended up doing para legal work in the City.Long hours,weekends and relatively low pay,especially when you factor in commuting costs,NYC and NY State Taxes. After a couple of years of this she decided to go for her B.S.in Nursing. She always wanted to be a nurse,but didn't want a "hard" major. Long story short,she spent a year and a half taking her prerequisite science and math classes(Don't know why a nurse needs calculus). Even took chemistry twice,because the program she wanted to get into requires a minimum grade of "B" in every prerequisite class. She got into an accelerated program in the top nursing program in N.J. Problem is,now their son is going down the same aimless path. Back to Top Robert Fox General User Member Since: 11/16/2004 Location: Knoxville, TN Post Count: 2,039 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 8:22:04 AM  bornacatfan wrote: Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Well said. Facing that issue now with two of mine, and it's as much a challenge for the parents as it is the students. The direction from parents (or someone in authority) is critical. So many students starting school have NO idea what they're in for with regard to majors, business direction, etc. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 8:49:13 AM  Robert Fox wrote: bornacatfan wrote: Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Well said. Facing that issue now with two of mine, and it's as much a challenge for the parents as it is the students. The direction from parents (or someone in authority) is critical. So many students starting school have NO idea what they're in for with regard to majors, business direction, etc. Your last point is a very good one Robert and one of the reasons I'm in favor of some sort of public service for gets the first two years out of high school before they start college. Way too many kids aren't close to being prepared to take advantage of what college is supposed to be at the ripe old age of 18. Back to Top Robert Fox General User Member Since: 11/16/2004 Location: Knoxville, TN Post Count: 2,039 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 8:55:24 AM  Alan Swank wrote: Robert Fox wrote: bornacatfan wrote: Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Well said. Facing that issue now with two of mine, and it's as much a challenge for the parents as it is the students. The direction from parents (or someone in authority) is critical. So many students starting school have NO idea what they're in for with regard to majors, business direction, etc. Your last point is a very good one Robert and one of the reasons I'm in favor of some sort of public service for gets the first two years out of high school before they start college. Way too many kids aren't close to being prepared to take advantage of what college is supposed to be at the ripe old age of 18. That could be something I'd support as well, Alan. Some kids are gifted with knowing their direction early, pursue that direction, and do very well. Many others, I would guess the majority, don't really know and they flounder a bit until that direction becomes clearer. That floundering can be very costly. Perhaps part of the challenge is, the perception at least, that 18 years old is not what it used to be. Relative maturity has ebbed and flowed over the generations. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,503 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 8:56:22 AM  Alan Swank wrote: Robert Fox wrote: bornacatfan wrote: Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Well said. Facing that issue now with two of mine, and it's as much a challenge for the parents as it is the students. The direction from parents (or someone in authority) is critical. So many students starting school have NO idea what they're in for with regard to majors, business direction, etc. Your last point is a very good one Robert and one of the reasons I'm in favor of some sort of public service for gets the first two years out of high school before they start college. Way too many kids aren't close to being prepared to take advantage of what college is supposed to be at the ripe old age of 18. I remember that mandatory "public service".We called it the draft. All kidding aside,I think trying implement any kind of mandatory public service, especially given the attitudes of the "young people" and their parents that I know, has about as much chance as a snowball in you know where. Back to Top Robert Fox General User Member Since: 11/16/2004 Location: Knoxville, TN Post Count: 2,039 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 9:02:23 AM  rpbobcat wrote: Alan Swank wrote: Robert Fox wrote: bornacatfan wrote: Parents have as much role as the school in guiding their kids to futures. Lots of opines from folks with specialized knowledge of the degrees and the markets but you got to help the kid with analysis, ideas and scenarios they are ill equipped to see. Well said. Facing that issue now with two of mine, and it's as much a challenge for the parents as it is the students. The direction from parents (or someone in authority) is critical. So many students starting school have NO idea what they're in for with regard to majors, business direction, etc. Your last point is a very good one Robert and one of the reasons I'm in favor of some sort of public service for gets the first two years out of high school before they start college. Way too many kids aren't close to being prepared to take advantage of what college is supposed to be at the ripe old age of 18. I remember that mandatory "public service".We called it the draft. All kidding aside,I think trying implement any kind of mandatory public service, especially given the attitudes of the "young people" and their parents that I know, has about as much chance as a snowball in you know where. That's probably true. one challenge is the routine we've come to accept: 1. Graduate high school 2. Go to college 3. Get a job So many students aren't ready for the transition from #1 to #2, but society EXPECTS students, generally, to follow that path. If you meet a student who's graduating with a BS at age 24 or 25, you tend to question that, as in What the hell's wrong with this guy? What was he doing? Partying? Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 12:43:55 PM  I agree that a year or two immediately after high school graduation spent working or travelling prior to attending college would probably benefit most kids, but making that 'mandatory' from the government is a non-starter. Kids wouldn't buy into that. Great idea to load future generations up with more debt though, congrats. A big problem with having kids take two years off after high school to work is that many of those entry-level jobs they could get have already been automated or will be automated in the next 3 to 5 years and especially the next 10 years. That is increasingly hurting college grads in addition to high school grads and that trend is accelerating......... That reminds me of the chuckle I get reading the Athens' News Facebook page listening to people complain about parking in downtown Athens... Driverless cars are here. No turning back now. If you think the value of college has already taken a hit, just wait... Next few years are going to be crazy... We've hit the steep part of the exponential growth curve. Technology is past the point of no-return. I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Robert Fox General User Member Since: 11/16/2004 Location: Knoxville, TN Post Count: 2,039 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 1:06:17 PM  The Optimist wrote: ... but making that 'mandatory' from the government is a non-starter. Kids wouldn't buy into that. I agree with this too. I'm looking at this suggestion only as a preference, not a mandate. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/17/2016 1:53:58 PM  The Optimist wrote: I agree that a year or two immediately after high school graduation spent working or travelling prior to attending college would probably benefit most kids, but making that 'mandatory' from the government is a non-starter. Kids wouldn't buy into that. Great idea to load future generations up with more debt though, congrats. A big problem with having kids take two years off after high school to work is that many of those entry-level jobs they could get have already been automated or will be automated in the next 3 to 5 years and especially the next 10 years. That is increasingly hurting college grads in addition to high school grads and that trend is accelerating......... That reminds me of the chuckle I get reading the Athens' News Facebook page listening to people complain about parking in downtown Athens... Driverless cars are here. No turning back now. If you think the value of college has already taken a hit, just wait... Next few years are going to be crazy... We've hit the steep part of the exponential growth curve. Technology is past the point of no-return. This two year "public service" gig could take many forms - the infrastructure in this country is falling apart, schools are in need of additional help (aides), the military is an option for some, etc. Here's an analogy that might help explain it. I can drive a car but if you put me in an Indy car, I could drive it around the track but would not really be able to use it for all it's worth. Kids can go to college but many aren't experienced enough to get everything out of college that college offers. That is a tremendous waste of resources. Two years of growing up might make/get them better ready for college. If there is one thing that I regret about my four years at Muskingum and two at OU is that I didn't fully engage with the professors that I had. Back to Top Gallia Cat General User Member Since: 7/11/2010 Post Count: 938 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/18/2016 8:56:13 AM  rpbobcat wrote: In the case of the IPF ,virtually all of the money to build it came from private donations. But,according to an article in The Post a while back,the IPF is used, percentage wise,primarily by other then varsity teams,including ROTC and the 110. If they are used primarily by other then varsity teams,I don't know why would anyone have a problem with the University handling maintenance costs. My daughter also had physical education classes at Walter Fieldhouse during fall and spring semesters last year. Back to Top David E Brightbill General User Member Since: 9/5/2005 Post Count: 113 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/18/2016 9:36:06 PM  rpbobcat wrote: The Optimist wrote: cbus cat fan wrote: The elephant in the room is the structure of college and universities. The number of higher education institutions on some sort of financial watch list is more than a little sobering. Skyrocketing tuition and debt caused by student's majoring in ridiculous non job prospect majors is a racket that keeps on suckering students and their parents. Student fees and athletic spending are small potatoes compared to the sheer chicanery that is the structure of higher education. Well said. I agree completely. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe that when you declare a major,the college/university you're attending,should be required to tell you what your job prospects are. I know one Ivy used to offer a degree in "Folklore and Mythology".Don't know if they still do.Anyway,unless people have trolls living under their porch that they need to get rid of,there doesn't seem to be much a college could say about your job prospects with that degree. I don't usually say anything about this kind of stuff, but we are talking about a university or college not a vocational school. There are many reasons to get an education, a job is one of the more important ones for most people but not all. A liberal Arts education can prepare you for all kinds of different things in life including a job. Besides who are you or for that matter who am I to tell people that they can only major in something that has a job at the end. do you know what skills will be needed 10 years from now. Back to Top cbus cat fan General User Member Since: 12/2/2011 Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/18/2016 11:59:27 PM  A couple of flaws with that argument as to who are we to tell anyone what can be their major. I certainly don't believe in telling anyone they can't major in something. However, in the interest of decency and fairness students (and their parents) need to be told what their chances are of being employed in their field. A few years ago, while interviewing prospective candidates at another state institution in Ohio, I never forget showing one young lady who was getting her certificate in Primary Education how many openings there were in Central Ohio and how many people were applying. A look of horror came over her face. I tried to soften the blow by telling her about parts of the country where her chances were significantly better. She didn't want to move there. I asked her if anyone had ever made this clear to her. She said this was covered on a cursory basis, but this was the first time anyone had ever been this specific using data. Students deserve better than this sort of treatment. I don't know how many times I have told students about getting another certification in a foreign language or perhaps becoming a school psychologist. One young man (thankfully like this previous case this didn't occur at our beloved Ohio) with his P.E certification came back to interview the very next year. He saw me and lamented that he was at crossroads since he never got a call back from any district after his campus interviews. He claimed that someone had just told him that less than 10% of PE majors had a job in Education. He wasn't very happy. Although there are plenty of law school grades not employed in their field, at least that field along with medical profession puts limits on the amount of students they let into their programs. Since my first post on this subject a few days ago, I spoke with a neighbor who is a big pooh bah at a very large near by higher education institution. He reiterated the view that many, many smaller institutions in the state and even some public institutions couldn't survive another downturn like 2008 with their present economic status. I mentioned this in a previous post, but according to him Urbana, Wittenburg, Ashland, Ohio Dominican and Akron are only the tip of the iceberg. Higher Education has plenty of problems to address. Thankfully, our university seems to be on a better moral and financial footing than most, but I am only familiar with the field of Education so maybe others can chime in on their particular area. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Vedder cited in MAC student fee discussion    Posted: 6/19/2016 10:21:48 AM  cbus cat fan wrote: Thankfully, our university seems to be on a better moral and financial footing than most, but I am only familiar with the field of Education so maybe others can chime in on their particular area. Interesting statement. Can you share what you base this statement on? 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