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Interesting article about Mike Rice and his involvement in AAU hoops. He makes some pointed comments about the ills of the sport. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 5/30/2016 12:26:49 PM  giacomo wrote: He makes some pointed comments about the ills of the sport. "The flaws of the A.A.U. system are adult-driven." This is 100% true. I've said it before but there are a lot of really good coaches and programs out there in the AAU landscape. But there's also the other side. Too many coaches and parents are more worried about collecting hardware than they are producing basketball players. And there is nothing wrong with winning trophies as long as you are doing it the right way. At least in the DC area there are a million AAU organizations. Typically they don't have much shelf life but there are some enduring organizations that produce a ton of talent. Even then the rosters change so often you don't know what team you are going to be going up against from season to season. My son's team is an aberration with 8 kids playing their fourth season together and one his third. My son is going to one of the Hoop Group camps in late July, early August. I'll have to let him know to keep his head on a swivel and watch for the ball flying at his head. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/18/2016 3:42:13 PM  Speaking of camps does Ohio ever do a sleep-away camp or is it always the day camp? Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,022 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/19/2016 12:44:58 PM  OUVan wrote: Speaking of camps does Ohio ever do a sleep-away camp or is it always the day camp? Looks like team camp is overnight. http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/04071... Back to Top Obc2 General User Member Since: 11/8/2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Post Count: 596 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/19/2016 1:20:02 PM  AAU ball was tough to watch as a spectator when my son played for a few years. First, teams in same leagues are grossly mismatched talent wise. Some teams have no reason fielding a team. Losing by 50+ weekly isn't a learning experience. Second, the top tier teams really should tune it down a notch when up by 25+. Continuing to press at that point is poor sportsmanship. Third, all the teams featured gunslinging ball hogs. Firing up deep 3's doesn't make you Steph fellas, it makes you a poor teammate. I know I have a small sample size in this post and my son's teams were usually top quartile, just as guilty of the things above as others. Luckily my kid is a great sport and knew not to trash talk back to the hot dogs or embarrass weaker kids. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/19/2016 2:10:02 PM  Obc2 wrote: AAU ball was tough to watch as a spectator when my son played for a few years. First, teams in same leagues are grossly mismatched talent wise. Some teams have no reason fielding a team. Losing by 50+ weekly isn't a learning experience. Second, the top tier teams really should tune it down a notch when up by 25+. Continuing to press at that point is poor sportsmanship. Third, all the teams featured gunslinging ball hogs. Firing up deep 3's doesn't make you Steph fellas, it makes you a poor teammate. I know I have a small sample size in this post and my son's teams were usually top quartile, just as guilty of the things above as others. Luckily my kid is a great sport and knew not to trash talk back to the hot dogs or embarrass weaker kids. AAU doesn't have leagues around us, just tournaments. Most teams that call themselves AAU teams are just travel teams that play AAU events. They also play USBA, YBOA, NTBA or other similar organizations tournaments. There are also a number of leagues that these teams play in and I think that's what you are talking about. Some of the teams involved are glorified rec teams that have outstepped their bounds and it turns out to be bad for everybody. My son's team has had games where the second half the coach has told them they could only shoot layups with their offhand and only after everyone on the court had a touch. Those games are hard to watch. I'll be honest as a parent I would prefer to be on the receiving end of those games than the team that is winning. At least those kids can get something out of it if their spirit isn't crushed. But particularly at the younger ages there are very few close games one way or the other. I agree with your point about tuning it down a notch to a point. Pressing while up 30 is ridiculous but it's also the only way some of these teams know how to play. Our coach used to go overboard the other way and I thought it was worse. He would tell the kids "No shots" once we got up 30 and the last ten minutes of the game would end up being keep away. That was way worse IMO. I'd much prefer to just turn off the press but still play basketball. By the way, we were on the receiving end of one of those beat-downs last weekend. My son's team played in a big national tournament (70 6th grade teams) and played the Toledo Wildcats. They had 5 kids 6' or taller and one kid 5'10". Our starting center (5'8") strained his hip the night before and didn't play but it wouldn't have mattered. They had this kid, Emani Bates, who is being called one of the best 6th graders in the country. He's a 6'4" SF and hit three or four threes including one from 27'. They could have named the score. Never mind that Bates is just over three months too old to be playing 7th grade much less 6th grade. Most of the teams in the tournament were the right age but there were about 10 that we stacked with age exceptions. But we played hard and got the score down to 50-31 with just over a minute to go when Toledo's coach put their starting 5 back in and turned the press on full bore against our bench. They were playing by the rules of this particular tournament with the ages so while I didn't respect what they were doing I was okay with it. But after they turned the press back on I was hoping they would get knocked out and they did in the quarterfinals against one of the other teams that fielded older kids. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/20/2016 11:13:43 AM  When you say the words "one of the best sixth graders in the country", you really have to say no more. That puts the whole AAU thing in perspective. Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,035 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/20/2016 11:17:14 AM  My son, still a little naïve to the big world around him, made several 3-point shots yesterday, then stated he has to be one of the best 9-year-old basketball players in Ohio. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/20/2016 4:08:55 PM  Is his name Donald? :) Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,035 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/20/2016 10:01:11 PM  Yeah, and he's telling our neighbor that he has to pay for the fence we're going to put up where our yard borders his yard. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/22/2016 8:10:24 AM  giacomo wrote: When you say the words "one of the best sixth graders in the country", you really have to say no more. That puts the whole AAU thing in perspective. Discount it all you want but colleges are already paying attention at that point. They can't take any real action yet but I can guarantee this kid is on a lot of radars. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 12:38:53 PM  That somebody is clocking six graders shows how out of control the whole thing is,IMO. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 2:35:27 PM  giacomo wrote: That somebody is clocking six graders shows how out of control the whole thing is,IMO. Well, you'll be very disappointed to hear that you can find lists of the top 50 2nd and 1st graders if you'd like. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 4:29:28 PM  I'm both amused and disappointed. Back to Top Bobcatbob General User Member Since: 12/21/2004 Location: Coolville, OH Post Count: 1,341 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 5:00:50 PM  OUVan wrote: giacomo wrote: That somebody is clocking six graders shows how out of control the whole thing is,IMO. Well, you'll be very disappointed to hear that you can find lists of the top 50 2nd and 1st graders if you'd like. Dismayed is a more apt description than disappointed. My pets disappoint me. People scouting athletes who still have baby teeth, that's dismay. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 8:44:20 PM  Bobcatbob wrote: OUVan wrote: giacomo wrote: That somebody is clocking six graders shows how out of control the whole thing is,IMO. Well, you'll be very disappointed to hear that you can find lists of the top 50 2nd and 1st graders if you'd like. Dismayed is a more apt description than disappointed. My pets disappoint me. People scouting athletes who still have baby teeth, that's dismay. +1 Some of these synonyms, courtesy of the Oxford Dictionary, are appropriate as well: alarm, unnerve, unsettle, throw off balance, discompose, disturb, upset, distress, rattle and faze. I think "alarm" and "distress" fit my reaction most closely. Last Edited: 6/23/2016 8:45:01 PM by OhioCatFan The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 8:49:13 PM  Le t me see if I remember the top 6 th graders when my son was in Virginia Beach for 6 th gradenationals. OJ mayo, bill Walker, Eric Gordon, Robbie Hummel,etwan Moore, Nick calathes , Sanchez (ark), jj Hickson, Kevin love, Dante Jackson, jeff teague, herb Pope , Austin Freeman, were some of the ones I remember watching and hearing about. If you think guys like yogi ferrel were not named best 5 th grader in America for a reason you can consider yourself late to the game never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 11:04:00 PM  bornacatfan wrote: Le t me see if I remember the top 6 th graders when my son was in Virginia Beach for 6 th gradenationals. OJ mayo, bill Walker, Eric Gordon, Robbie Hummel,etwan Moore, Nick calathes , Sanchez (ark), jj Hickson, Kevin love, Dante Jackson, jeff teague, herb Pope , Austin Freeman, were some of the ones I remember watching and hearing about. If you think guys like yogi ferrel were not named best 5 th grader in America for a reason you can consider yourself late to the game Wow, that's quite the collection of names. As sleazy as the AAU scene can be you get to see (and go against) some serious talent. It's been a very rewarding and beneficial experience for my son. I'm sure it's not a positive experience for everyone though. Back to Top ytownbobcat General User Member Since: 8/7/2006 Post Count: 1,253 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/23/2016 11:16:45 PM  So Mike Rice went to High School in Youngstown and played at Boardman High School. His infamous father was Head Coach at Duquesne and later at Youngstown State . His battles with Bob Huggins who was the head coach at Akron were epic and crowd pleasing. Mike Rice senior is the radio color voice for the Seattle Supersonics. Mike Jr went to Fordham and worked his way through east coast basketball. It was Eric Murdock (who played for Franny at Manhattan) who decided to expose his outrageous practice techniques and player berating. Murdock's motivation is unclear. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/26/2016 7:07:07 AM  bornacatfan wrote: Le t me see if I remember the top 6 th graders when my son was in Virginia Beach for 6 th gradenationals. OJ mayo, bill Walker, Eric Gordon, Robbie Hummel,etwan Moore, Nick calathes , Sanchez (ark), jj Hickson, Kevin love, Dante Jackson, jeff teague, herb Pope , Austin Freeman, were some of the ones I remember watching and hearing about. If you think guys like yogi ferrel were not named best 5 th grader in America for a reason you can consider yourself late to the game http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPa... We just made an offer to a kid from the class of 2019. This underscores the fact that colleges are looking at kids very early on. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/26/2016 1:50:29 PM  Borna throws out some names of guys who made it and were on the radar screen as young as 6th grade. I guess if everyone is playing that game, the best players show up and congregate and it goes from there. There is just as likely kids who are identified as a prospect that young and don't pan out, but you don't hear about those guys. I recall Damon Bailey was one of the first to be hyped at an early age. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/26/2016 4:12:41 PM  giacomo wrote: Borna throws out some names of guys who made it and were on the radar screen as young as 6th grade. I guess if everyone is playing that game, the best players show up and congregate and it goes from there. There is just as likely kids who are identified as a prospect that young and don't pan out, but you don't hear about those guys. I recall Damon Bailey was one of the first to be hyped at an early age. I wouldn't say that Damon Bailey didn't pan out. He just didn't hit the heights that a lot of people were predicting. But he did get time in the NBA. I think you are probably correct about the kids that didn't pan out though. I'm sure there are some that would have been on the top 50 lists that didn't even play D1 or college at all. But I'm guessing they are the exception. But the fact that borna remembers these kids from Nationals should tell you something. Back to Top giacomo General User Member Since: 11/20/2007 Post Count: 2,623 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/26/2016 4:31:58 PM  Damon Bailey certainly was successful. I meant he was one of the first to be hyped that young when Bobby Knight called him out in Feinstein book. Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/26/2016 5:12:06 PM  giacomo wrote: Borna throws out some names of guys who made it and were on the radar screen as young as 6th grade. I guess if everyone is playing that game, the best players show up and congregate and it goes from there. There is just as likely kids who are identified as a prospect that young and don't pan out, but you don't hear about those guys. I recall Damon Bailey was one of the first to be hyped at an early age. I just threw out the names of the guys who were garnering attention at Va Beach in 6th grade and Memphis in 7th. By 8th grade the Final Four teams had Mayo, Walker, Love, Singler, Brandon Jennings, Jeff Teague along with Tommy and a those guys on FF teams with no names. They had already gone through the Hurleys as well as John Stockton, Micheal Jordan and Horace Grants kids and nephews to get there. By 8th grade the lists of Top 100 were pretty well set and the top 1000 for that class were fairly well scrutinized. Guys like Jujuan Johnson and Gary McGhee were latecomers who were the exception rather than the rule. Like i said.... there were not a lot of those that flamed out or moved way up or way down on those lists. My point in responding was that those kids were garnering attention in 6th grade...to the point that we were aware of them and watching. There were not a lot of them that fell out in that 100 or so we were aware of....Lil Romeo went on to a singing career and some of that class like Johnny Flynn, Koufos, Lauderdale ended up with pretty good college careers while some like the Plumlees reclassified. THere were many like Devaughn Washington and his Va Beach running buddy along with the Jimmer Fredettes were not yet sought out or on the radar that went on to pretty solid careers in college and/or overseas. It is very interesting to go through and follow closely. Van is in the middle of it now. Watching Paul Baron's son go through it after watching his 2 nephews and also watching KJ Rhodes coming up and having success is extremely interesting. Gives me a bit of perspective that is fascinating. never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Mike Rice finds redemption    Posted: 6/27/2016 8:50:15 AM  bornacatfan wrote: there were not a lot of those that flamed out or moved way up or way down on those lists. The lists got jumbled quite a bit when AAU changed their age requirements last year and stopped allowing grade exceptions (reclasses). It was funny seeing the difference in the size and body control of the kids we were playing against in AAU sanctioned tournaments compared to the year before. But the new rules really hit some tournaments in the pocketbook, including AAU. As an example, the Maryland Invitational, which always followed AAU rules, three years ago had about 50 teams in my son's age group. Last year that number dropped to about 20. This year they went back to the old age rules (for grade 6 and up) and as I mentioned earlier that number ballooned up to 70. AAU even was forced to amend their rules because the number of teams that participated in Nationals was way down. They now offer both an age and a grade based National Tournament. And based on what I saw at the MIT that the grade based will draw the most interest (sadly). Sort of reminds me of what happened when they tweaked the RPI a few years ago to give road teams a fair shake. It worked great but hurt the money teams so they ignored it. 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