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Topic:  30 sec clock in the works.

Topic:  30 sec clock in the works.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/15/2015 2:36:10 PM 
Will be good to see how this plays out. Horse is out of the barn as far as I am concerned. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/127...


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 9:17:11 AM 
Personally, I'm not for or against it either way. I do not think that this is the solution to "increasing scoring".
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 9:23:23 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Personally, I'm not for or against it either way. I do not think that this is the solution to "increasing scoring".


+1. It might increase the number of possessions but that won't necessarily equate to increased scoring. Shot selection is a big factor. Stop taking ill-advised shots early in the clock.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 10:30:54 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Personally, I'm not for or against it either way. I do not think that this is the solution to "increasing scoring".


+1. It might increase the number of possessions but that won't necessarily equate to increased scoring. Shot selection is a big factor. Stop taking ill-advised shots early in the clock.


Combine your thought with having/developing kids who are better shooters, and we're on the same page.

I will say this about new ideas being discussed - some of the timeout ideas they're mentioning aren't bad, particularly the idea of rolling a coaches TO into the media TO. I don't like taking away a coaches time out however.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 11:05:21 AM 
I've made my feelings known on this in the past. I think this will actually make the game more unwatchable. All we are going to see with a 30 second clock is bad AAU basketball. Perimeter pass, perimeter pass, enough already time to drive and either miss a horrible looking shot or get bailed out by the ref. The way to fix the game is stop the clutching and grabbing away from the ball.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 12:07:35 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Personally, I'm not for or against it either way. I do not think that this is the solution to "increasing scoring".


Stop taking ill-advised shots early in the clock.


OR wasting time dribbling the air out of the ball till the shot clock is down to 8 and then throwing up whatever is available.

I agree with Van. This will not be the panacea the hordes of basketball followers with BBADHD hope it is. Just because they can't appreciate good offense consisting of ball movement and passing between crowd thrilling dunks does not get better because you shortened the shot clock. OTOH...those feelings are fed into by the coaching profession which has put less emphasis on the mechanics of the game and more on idividuals who handle the ball then attack the rim with a waning shot clock and get bailed out with the absurd way the game is officiated any more. Let's get back to basketball.


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 1:25:27 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:
which has put less emphasis on the mechanics of the game and more on idividuals who handle the ball then attack the rim with a waning shot clock and get bailed out with the absurd way the game is officiated any more. Let's get back to basketball.


Agreed. Nearly every rule change, or more accurately, rule emphasis change they have made (hand check, making it tougher to take a charge, allowing kidnapping off the ball) has made one-on-one play the only way to go. Trying to recreate the pro game without pro caliber players is a bad idea IMO. All they are doing is recreating the D League.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/18/2015 2:04:38 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
Personally, I'm not for or against it either way. I do not think that this is the solution to "increasing scoring".


Stop taking ill-advised shots early in the clock.


OR wasting time dribbling the air out of the ball till the shot clock is down to 8 and then throwing up whatever is available.

I agree with Van. This will not be the panacea the hordes of basketball followers with BBADHD hope it is. Just because they can't appreciate good offense consisting of ball movement and passing between crowd thrilling dunks does not get better because you shortened the shot clock. OTOH...those feelings are fed into by the coaching profession which has put less emphasis on the mechanics of the game and more on idividuals who handle the ball then attack the rim with a waning shot clock and get bailed out with the absurd way the game is officiated any more. Let's get back to basketball.


I completely agree with borna and Van. Shortening the shot clock will only make the game worse. It's the way the games are being officiated.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/19/2015 12:04:33 PM 
I agree with all. One factor is the increased size and strength of the average player. When a premium is put on those two traits sometimes skills like shooting play second fiddle. Also bigger and stronger players clog the game and make it more defensive than offensive.
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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/19/2015 10:48:37 PM 
I agree with a lot of the opinions on here, which also made me think of a new poll idea:

What does NCAA D1 M BBall need most to improve the overall quality of the game:

1. Refs who call the game as the rules are written?
2. Better PG's?
3. Better Shooters?
4. Coaches who are better recruiters and skilled offensive/fundamentals coaches to manage/navigate all of the above challenges to greater program success?


RS Bobcat

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/20/2015 12:11:48 PM 
RSBobcat wrote:
I agree with a lot of the opinions on here, which also made me think of a new poll idea:

What does NCAA D1 M BBall need most to improve the overall quality of the game:

1. Refs who call the game as the rules are written?
2. Better PG's?
3. Better Shooters?
4. Coaches who are better recruiters and skilled offensive/fundamentals coaches to manage/navigate all of the above challenges to greater program success?


I vote #1. Call the game right and the players and coaches will adjust. There is a lot more talent out there than a lot of people give credit for.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/20/2015 1:55:44 PM 
OUVan wrote:
RSBobcat wrote:
I agree with a lot of the opinions on here, which also made me think of a new poll idea:

What does NCAA D1 M BBall need most to improve the overall quality of the game:

1. Refs who call the game as the rules are written?
2. Better PG's?
3. Better Shooters?
4. Coaches who are better recruiters and skilled offensive/fundamentals coaches to manage/navigate all of the above challenges to greater program success?


I vote #1. Call the game right and the players and coaches will adjust. There is a lot more talent out there than a lot of people give credit for.


I'd like to see more consistency from game-to-game in refs' calls. It ruins the sport when you see some guys get hammered with no foul called in one game but little reach-ins draw fouls in another game.

I'd also like to see coaches teach more discipline in shot selection. Yes, most of these kids are still at an age where there brain is developing, but making smart choices really needs to be drilled into them.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/20/2015 2:20:39 PM 
Historically you can point to officiating as the impetus. Somewhere along the line fans fell in love with the "athlete" and valued them over "basketball players". COaches followed Ray Meyer's lead at Depaul and began using "athletes" and training them to a system and how to play the game.

For the next couple of decades coaches and fans called for the refs to "let em play" as if everyone in the game was a MJ or Alan Iverson and was able to score at will. It is a chicken/egg story as to what happened whether it was coaches recruiting differently, the shoe companies offering up the next "greatest player of all time", fans telling the refs to quit calling stuff and valuing a high flying dunk over good offense and developing BB ADHD getting rid of the 4 corners of Dean Smith ad adding a shot clock. The game changed and with refs asked to call it differently it has continued a metamorphosis. Watch an ESPN Classic game every once in a while and look at how much room there is and how guys run off screens without the defender rasslin' with them or without the defender getting beat on. Anyone here who remembers Jamerson and how he was able to use screens to get a little space. Can't do that now....and woe to him who made his living on the jump shot because now it is all about running through the shooter and being physical with him. Rick Mount, Jerry West and many of the greats could not play the way the game is officiated today.

At the root of it is the officiating. Like the changes in the NBA has addressed some of the issues, so it must down the line. Calling the game and not kowtowing to coaches who are seemingly bigger than the team, not having sportscasters or fans influence them and not having or showing predilection for a team or a coach or a league in the way they call a game.

I think change is due. If they open up the game and call more like it was instead of what it became Coaches will adjust and teach what you can and can't do. Players will adjust(or buy some pine time) and play it without hands on each other, not "bodying up", won't bump guys off cuts or hold defenders on screens. I think The game has become physical ....and if you were to sit in on practices you would hear coaches as they teach a very physical technique. I have sat with coaches who will tell you who they like officiating "because if he is on our game we can muddy it up" because he won't call the contact. I do not and have not ever believed fans want that muddying up to a game. I think it hurts a true basketball player and helps a physical specimen. I also think fans have to understand a bit more about hoops. Everybody gets jacked over a dunk but fail to understand the cat and mouse that happens when strategy is involved. Yelling for a well executed play that was run through beginning to end instead of the defense "blowing it up" is a joy that a lot of fans miss when they just watch the ball.

This is a fascinating subject that everyone has an opinion ad no one has an answer that suits all...Scoring is down, partly because defenses are allowed to disrupt offensive flow ad partly because everyone wants to fly and no kid wants to work on skills around ball handling , passing and *putting the ball in the hole* otherwise known as "scoring". They all want to work on Vert and throwing down. It takes time and discipline to learn the game. Till we change how the refs call the game there is no impetus to do that and the game will continue to degrade. Thank goodness for soccer worldwide because if all kids over there came up through systems that taught players the same skills across the board whether they were 4 foot or 7 foot I suspect we would see a lot more players that resemble Novitzki and world outside the US players than can play in the middle or on the edge or handle the ball if they need to than one dimensional guys who are good in one facet of the game. Guys like MJ who became a good shooter, that could handle the ball, that could post guys AND defend the edge and the middle are a rarity in the US.

Interesting subject that goes on and on and has as wide of an opinion as to what musical is enjoyable or what kind of music one likes.... The one thing most agree on is that the the college game is changing ....and not for the better in most fans eyes.


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: 30 sec clock in the works.
   Posted: 5/20/2015 4:23:47 PM 
bornacatfan wrote:
everyone wants to fly and no kid wants to work on skills around ball handling , passing and *putting the ball in the hole* otherwise known as "scoring". They all want to work on Vert and throwing down. It takes time and discipline to learn the game.


From what I've seen there are a lot of coaches that work on ballhandling but much fewer work on court vision, spacing and passing. The problem is that anyone can hang their AAU shingle out and call themselves a coach. And some of the guys that only know enough about basketball to be dangerous can be somewhat successful because they can get extremely athletic kids and just overwhelm opponents early on with the full-court press defense and offensive rebound offense. They'll point to their 3rd or 4th grade National trophies and think it means something but as these kids get older they are going to be extremely far behind a lot of their peers who received much better coaching. By the time they are in 7th grade being an athlete isn't enough anymore.


My suggestion to parents with kids just starting in basketball and looking for a spot for your son or daughter. Go watch some tournaments and watch the offenses. If it's perimeter pass, perimeter pass, perimeter pass, drive...cross them off the list. Look for the teams where the kids play with their heads up and move with purpose without the ball. Looks for the teams that can shut down other teams without having to press. Sadly there aren't that many out there but they are out there.

Edit: And don't worry who won the tournament.

Last Edited: 5/20/2015 4:26:21 PM by OUVan

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